Taking the Fun ot of GeoCaching - Groundspeak - Geocaching

3.5k · February 28, 2008

Again, that's not the point. No one said you have to have prizes to make an event occur. However, having them makes the event better, and if a little free exchange of advertising allows this to happen, what is the problem.

Isn't this the point behind the site advertising? It doesn't hurt the people to have ads there, and sometimes people click on them, but it benefits the site.

How does it lessen the game of geocaching when cachers or groups do the EXACT same thing as the site? They have someone who is willing to give something (and not even them - just the people who come to the event) to make the event better in trade for some free advertising. I could see if it wasn't family appropriate stuff, but why should the site be allowed to do it, because its a good thing, but players aren't allowed to do it, because... ? Same reason, same result should occur.

There's no such thing as "free."

In this case, the event holders were asked to put a banner link on the event page in exchange for prizes to be given away at the event. The problem is, the event holders do not own the website the banner ad will appear on. And the people who do own it charge for ads in order to keep the site running.

So how would you feel if you were a corporate advertiser who is paying decent money to have your banner appear on a website and you find out that other people are getting the same service for just a few backpacks?

It's not only wrong, it's unethical.

The good news is, there are plenty of ways to still involve corporate sponsors in events. Not all of them are so demanding that they have to have a banner and link on the cache page.

And I have yet to figure out how having advertising on Geocaching.com lessens the site but having advertising on an event cache makes it better. :laughing:

38.2k · February 28, 2008

How does it lessen the game of geocaching when cachers or groups do the EXACT same thing as the site?

What makes you think they should be allowed to use this website's resources to advertise anyone's products?

If they want to advertise they are free to - on their own website.

February 28, 2008

Again, that's not the point. No one said you have to have prizes to make an event occur. However, having them makes the event better, and if a little free exchange of advertising allows this to happen, what is the problem.

Isn't this the point behind the site advertising? It doesn't hurt the people to have ads there, and sometimes people click on them, but it benefits the site.

How does it lessen the game of geocaching when cachers or groups do the EXACT same thing as the site? They have someone who is willing to give something (and not even them - just the people who come to the event) to make the event better in trade for some free advertising. I could see if it wasn't family appropriate stuff, but why should the site be allowed to do it, because its a good thing, but players aren't allowed to do it, because... ? Same reason, same result should occur.

There's no such thing as "free."

In this case, the event holders were asked to put a banner link on the event page in exchange for prizes to be given away at the event. The problem is, the event holders do not own the website the banner ad will appear on. And the people who do own it charge for ads in order to keep the site running.

So how would you feel if you were a corporate advertiser who is paying decent money to have your banner appear on a website and you find out that other people are getting the same service for just a few backpacks?

It's not only wrong, it's unethical.

The good news is, there are plenty of ways to still involve corporate sponsors in events. Not all of them are so demanding that they have to have a banner and link on the cache page.

And I have yet to figure out how having advertising on Geocaching.com lessens the site but having advertising on an event cache makes it better.

What you're saying is that someone offering a service for free or close to free is bad for people who offer the same service for a charge. I guess this means that, as a volunteer fireman (like 95% of the firemen in my state), we are somehow being unethical by offering our service for free, when the paid firemen expect a paycheck for doing the exact same thing. Definitely something wrong with that argument. Offering something for free that someone else charges for isn't a problem. The people who are charging need to make sure their product is worth the money, or some other reason to pick them over the free or more inexpensive option.

No, they don't own the website. But the owners of the website do exactly the same thing. So deny players access to free things so that you can make a few bucks? Something wrong with that argument as well.

I have never subscribed to the theory that income is more important than the service that is provided. I never ran my own business, but when I did sell things, I did so to make a little profit - i didn't do it to make any kind of disadvantage for the people buying (or possibly buying) my products. I also didn't do it in any way to keep them from going to someone else if they chose to.

This site is "advertising" geocaches, geocache events, etc. Yes, TPTB have the right to decide what can go on their website and what they don't want on there. But when presented with the argument that "What's good for the goose is good for the gander", something appears to be wrong with TPTB or the moderator's argument.

And please don't go back to "Because we said so".

I highly doubt google cares if there is some other advertising on the website for anyone or anything. Otherwise, the Yahoo ads experiment would not have been allowed.

Edited February 28, 2008 by FireRef

8.9k · February 28, 2008

Again, that's not the point. No one said you have to have prizes to make an event occur. However, having them makes the event better, and if a little free exchange of advertising allows this to happen, what is the problem.

Isn't this the point behind the site advertising? It doesn't hurt the people to have ads there, and sometimes people click on them, but it benefits the site.

How does it lessen the game of geocaching when cachers or groups do the EXACT same thing as the site? They have someone who is willing to give something (and not even them - just the people who come to the event) to make the event better in trade for some free advertising. I could see if it wasn't family appropriate stuff, but why should the site be allowed to do it, because its a good thing, but players aren't allowed to do it, because... ? Same reason, same result should occur.

There's no such thing as "free."

In this case, the event holders were asked to put a banner link on the event page in exchange for prizes to be given away at the event. The problem is, the event holders do not own the website the banner ad will appear on. And the people who do own it charge for ads in order to keep the site running.

So how would you feel if you were a corporate advertiser who is paying decent money to have your banner appear on a website and you find out that other people are getting the same service for just a few backpacks?

It's not only wrong, it's unethical.

The good news is, there are plenty of ways to still involve corporate sponsors in events. Not all of them are so demanding that they have to have a banner and link on the cache page.

And I have yet to figure out how having advertising on Geocaching.com lessens the site but having advertising on an event cache makes it better.

What you're saying is that someone offering a service for free or close to free is bad for people who offer the same service for a charge. I guess this means that, as a volunteer fireman (like 95% of the firemen in my state), we are somehow being unethical by offering our service for free, when the paid firemen expect a paycheck for doing the exact same thing. Definitely something wrong with that argument. Offering something for free that someone else charges for isn't a problem. The people who are charging need to make sure their product is worth the money, or some other reason to pick them over the free or more inexpensive option.

No, they don't own the website. But the owners of the website do exactly the same thing. So deny players access to free things so that you can make a few bucks? Something wrong with that argument as well.

I have never subscribed to the theory that income is more important than the service that is provided. I never ran my own business, but when I did sell things, I did so to make a little profit - i didn't do it to make any kind of disadvantage for the people buying (or possibly buying) my products. I also didn't do it in any way to keep them from going to someone else if they chose to.

This site is "advertising" geocaches, geocache events, etc. Yes, TPTB have the right to decide what can go on their website and what they don't want on there. But when presented with the argument that "What's good for the goose is good for the gander", something appears to be wrong with TPTB or the moderator's argument.

And please don't go back to "Because we said so".

I highly doubt google cares if there is some other advertising on the website for anyone or anything. Otherwise, the Yahoo ads experiment would not have been allowed.

:laughing:

Do you really think that YOU have the right to tell the owner of this site what can and can't be allowed? Are you really saying that it doesn't hurt the paing people if they allowd non-paying advertisement?? Don't you think the PAYING people would quit and the money generated from those ads would stop? It's not rocket science here.

Think of it as if you WERE in business. Someone asks if they can pay you to advertise on your site...would you take their money and still allow others to do the same for free or would you stop all others from the free ads to keep the paying people happy?

8.9k · February 28, 2008

TPTB aren't asking for everyone to stop throwing events, they aren't saying we can't have sponsors. We just can't advertise their business for free. You do have the right to use your own website to put ANY details not allowed on the cache/event page (to a point I'd imagine).

If this bothers you so, open your own publishing site for all that need to put out the info not allowed...

February 28, 2008

Depends - If that was true, than people without insurance should be pretty upset when they have to pay more for health care than someone with a group, because the insurer chooses to charge less for larger groups, or doctors accept less money from insurance companies than they charge individuals for the exact same services.

Does this stop people from going to doctors?

Does this stop people from going anywhere that gives group discounts, which are less necessary than medical visits? It irritates people, but they don't stop doing it.

Shouldn't google be pretty upset that this site allowed yahoo ads? Maybe. Will it stop them from advertising? Probably not.

3.5k · February 28, 2008

What you're saying is that someone offering a service for free or close to free is bad for people who offer the same service for a charge. I guess this means that, as a volunteer fireman (like 95% of the firemen in my state), we are somehow being unethical by offering our service for free, when the paid firemen expect a paycheck for doing the exact same thing. Definitely something wrong with that argument.

What's wrong with that argument is that it has absolutely nothing to do with what's happening here. Now, if as volunteer firemen (of whose ranks I have belonged to as well), every time you went out to fight a fire you went over to firefighter.com's firehouse and "borrowed" the trucks and gear they own and paid for out of their own pockets, you'd be a little closer to what we're actually discussing here.

8k · February 28, 2008

One needs to understand that Geocaching.com is not synonymous with geocaching. Geocaching.com is a cache listing service. It is a business that runs by allowing individuals to list their geocaches and for others to search for caches they want to hunt and to use the cache logging service to record their experiences. All this is done free of charge. Geocaching.com makes money in several ways.

advertisers pay to have ads on the website in hopes that geocachers will see these ads
premium memberships to give users additional tools beyond the free part of the site, including not having to see many of the ads.
travel bugs and coins which can be tracked on the site
merchandising in the Groundspeak store

In order to list your geocache or event on Geocaching.com, your cache must meet certain listing guidelines and you must agree to the terms of use. These protect the interests of Geocaching.com as well as the interest of geocaching in general. Certainly many of the guidelines are there to protect Geocaching.com and are not necessary to protect geocaching. These may seem to take the fun out of geocaching as they don't make sense from a geocacher's perspective. There are perhaps some who feel that Jeremy should not be making any money off of geocaching. Geocaching is probably as successful as it has been because Jeremy realizes that he has to see continued growth in the sport in order to support his business model. I don't think that Jeremy takes any decision lightly and he tries to balance the interest of his business against the fun of geocachers.

Mr. Wisearse and FishPOET will probably remind me to wipe the brown frog poop off my nose :laughing:

24.7k · February 28, 2008

TPTB aren't asking for everyone to stop throwing events, they aren't saying we can't have sponsors. We just can't advertise their business for free. You do have the right to use your own website to put ANY details not allowed on the cache/event page (to a point I'd imagine).

If this bothers you so, open your own publishing site for all that need to put out the info not allowed...

One of the things about events is that another business will give you space in anticipation of making $ from you and your attendees. This site is much the same. You make a listing, others view it and have either paid to view it or the ads and eyeballs help pay. This site does make money from you but limits the space (your web page that you create and from which they derive revenue) and your freedom within that space. More than the business with a higher investment. (What's a room in a resteraunt cost compared to a listing on this site?).

3.9k · February 28, 2008

Again, that's not the point. No one said you have to have prizes to make an event occur. However, having them makes the event better, and if a little free exchange of advertising allows this to happen, what is the problem.

Isn't this the point behind the site advertising? It doesn't hurt the people to have ads there, and sometimes people click on them, but it benefits the site.

How does it lessen the game of geocaching when cachers or groups do the EXACT same thing as the site? They have someone who is willing to give something (and not even them - just the people who come to the event) to make the event better in trade for some free advertising. I could see if it wasn't family appropriate stuff, but why should the site be allowed to do it, because its a good thing, but players aren't allowed to do it, because... ? Same reason, same result should occur.

There's no such thing as "free."

In this case, the event holders were asked to put a banner link on the event page in exchange for prizes to be given away at the event. The problem is, the event holders do not own the website the banner ad will appear on. And the people who do own it charge for ads in order to keep the site running.

So how would you feel if you were a corporate advertiser who is paying decent money to have your banner appear on a website and you find out that other people are getting the same service for just a few backpacks?

It's not only wrong, it's unethical.

The good news is, there are plenty of ways to still involve corporate sponsors in events. Not all of them are so demanding that they have to have a banner and link on the cache page.

And I have yet to figure out how having advertising on Geocaching.com lessens the site but having advertising on an event cache makes it better.

Just a brief note here, as I largely try to avoid this troll thread: CyBret, I agree one hundred percent with what you wrote, and thanks for stating that so clearly. I also agree with the excellent related points made by tozainamboku in a post just one or two posts above mine. Thank you each for stating these points so clearly and simply!

What I DO find fascinating about these troll threads is the folks who show up wearing their entitlement (aka "gimme", aka "I want it for free!") disorders on their shoulders, in full public view, rather than having the grace to at least hide them a bit to avoid the public shame and disgrace! Wow! :laughing:

February 28, 2008

What you're saying is that someone offering a service for free or close to free is bad for people who offer the same service for a charge. I guess this means that, as a volunteer fireman (like 95% of the firemen in my state), we are somehow being unethical by offering our service for free, when the paid firemen expect a paycheck for doing the exact same thing. Definitely something wrong with that argument.

What's wrong with that argument is that it has absolutely nothing to do with what's happening here. Now, if as volunteer firemen (of whose ranks I have belonged to as well), every time you went out to fight a fire you went over to firefighter.com's firehouse and "borrowed" the trucks and gear they own and paid for out of their own pockets, you'd be a little closer to what we're actually discussing here.

There is no comparison there - using a webpage to host a banner ad doesn't cost anything for the person who is hosting it beyond what it already costs them to have the page. I don't see the page getting worn down and needing replaced. The equipment supporting it might, but that will happen regardless of whether there is a banner ad there or not. No comparision.

As a volunteer, we are looked down on often by the paid firemen because we're not "real" firemen. Our city chooses to call back paid firemen (to active duty on their day off), to the tune of a half hour or more delay, to get more trucks, then to simply call the volunteers who are used to being ready to go on a moment's notice, and who would likely be there more quickly. The reason for this is union rules. Protect the firefighter's $$ rather than the people that they are there to protect.

This year, we had an accident 2 blocks outside our area inside the city with a paid department, and a half mile from our firehouse. They called for a rescue truck to extricate someone, and it took them 20 minutes to get to the scene (I was at the scene as a bystander) from the time they were called. We could have had our rescue truck there in half the time, but they chose to protect the paid firefighters' interests over the safety of the people involved in the accident.

I believe this website is protecting the interests of one person, in a similar fashion, over the interests of the tens of thousands of geocachers out in the world.

Again, I agree he can do whatever he wants - it's his site. But doing things which either look bad for the game/sport, or doing things which benefit him but hurt those who choose to play, are not in the best interest of the game/sport or the business model.

And I can see several people have gone back to the "If you don't like it, 1) leave, or 2) start your own listing site..." argument. Doesn't anyone feel this site is good enough to be improved, rather than just being dumped?

When AT&T had a monopoly on things, the government stepped in. That isn't going to happen here, but a similar situation has developed. GC.com has become so big and so popular, regardless of its failings, that going elsewhere just isn't an option right now, unless I want to hunt 2-3 caches in my city, instead of hundreds.

It's similar to a local sports park. I have several basketball teams I coach. The only place in town to play is that sports park. I disagree with the managament (whoever it happens to be, as it changes quite often) about some decisions they have made, or are currently making, but if I want the kids to play, I have to abide by their decisions. There isn't anywhere else to take them that is in this area. So we put up with the decisions they make that make their business look bad, because otherwise the kids wouldn't get to play. The option of "leave" would just hurt the kids, and "start my own sports park" isn't likely. I would prefer that the things which are wrong with the park, in the opinion of a lot of people, would be changed. Will I continue to work for that change? As long as I want to continue to play up there and disagree with the decisions they make.

Edited February 28, 2008 by FireRef

February 28, 2008

TPTB aren't asking for everyone to stop throwing events, they aren't saying we can't have sponsors. We just can't advertise their business for free. You do have the right to use your own website to put ANY details not allowed on the cache/event page (to a point I'd imagine).

If this bothers you so, open your own publishing site for all that need to put out the info not allowed...

One of the things about events is that another business will give you space in anticipation of making $ from you and your attendees. This site is much the same. You make a listing, others view it and have either paid to view it or the ads and eyeballs help pay. This site does make money from you but limits the space (your web page that you create and from which they derive revenue) and your freedom within that space. More than the business with a higher investment. (What's a room in a resteraunt cost compared to a listing on this site?).

So based on that, the cache pages can't list a restaurant name, since even just listing the name is advertising. So list the address? Oh wait, that's advertising people to go to that location, and look! There's a restaurant there. So it's advertising.

But they allow restaurant names. Different rules for different people/places/issues? Guess so...

1k · February 28, 2008

So based on that, the cache pages can't list a restaurant name, since even just listing the name is advertising. So list the address? Oh wait, that's advertising people to go to that location, and look! There's a restaurant there. So it's advertising.

But they allow restaurant names. Different rules for different people/places/issues? Guess so...

I have a cache placed near a pond by a humane society place and made some statements in the cache listing about cachers being able to adopt their new best friend while they were there and got it shot down for advertising. I have found them to be pretty strict on this....

38.2k · February 28, 2008

So based on that, the cache pages can't list a restaurant name, since even just listing the name is advertising. So list the address? Oh wait, that's advertising people to go to that location, and look! There's a restaurant there. So it's advertising.

But they allow restaurant names. Different rules for different people/places/issues? Guess so...

They allow restaurant names because it's reasonable for people know where they are going for an event. They draw the line linking to the restaurant's website because that's where they choose the draw the line.

I guess they can ban the use of restaurant names, which of course would give you another reason to come here and rant.

Instead they make a reasonable accommodation and draw the line at blatant commercialism like linking to the restaurant's web page or menu.

Doesn't anyone feel this site is good enough to be improved, rather than just being dumped?

Explain how allowing geocachers to post advertisements for whatever business pleases them will improve this website or my geocaching experience.

Geez, I've been geocaching for close to 7 years and the fact that I can't run an ad for Garmin or Joe's Pizza on my cache page hasn't detracted from my experience one bit.

Edited February 28, 2008 by briansnat

1k · February 28, 2008

And I can see several people have gone back to the "If you don't like it, 1) leave, or 2) start your own listing site..." argument. Doesn't anyone feel this site is good enough to be improved, rather than just being dumped?

I think there have been some pretty good tweaks offerred up to improve things, but it all boils down to one major point.... What is the official procedure to make suggested updates to the site/game/guidelines/etc? Seems that yakking about it in here is often just that, yakking about it....

February 28, 2008

But they allow restaurant names. Different rules for different people/places/issues? Guess so...

I have a cache placed near a pond by a humane society place and made some statements in the cache listing about cachers being able to adopt their new best friend while they were there and got it shot down for advertising. I have found them to be pretty strict on this....

That surprises me a bit. Humane Societies are usually non-profits and perform a public service. I'd hardly call a passing remark regarding its proximity as advertising for a business. Maybe the reviewer is a cat lover? :laughing:

February 28, 2008

Explain how allowing geocachers to post advertisements for whatever business pleases them will improve this website or my geocaching experience.

Geez, I've been geocaching for close to 7 years and the fact that I can't run an ad for Garmin or Joe's Pizza on my cache page hasn't detracted from my experience one bit.

Allowing geocachers to post advertisements for whaever business pleases them (within reason) already has shown some benefits as listed several lines up in the earlier messages - getting businesses to give donations for the cachers themselves in exchange for a small amount of free advertising. Removing this has detracted from the enjoyment of anyone who has been denied permission to publish a cache, or anyone who got free stuff at any of those events, who now can't.

It won't necessarily improve the website, but definitely improved the experience of the people who got the free stuff. As for detracting from your experience, I don't believe it has - however, it has allowed the passing of a number of opportunities to make the game better.

6.1k · February 28, 2008

And I can see several people have gone back to the "If you don't like it, 1) leave, or 2) start your own listing site..." argument. Doesn't anyone feel this site is good enough to be improved, rather than just being dumped?
I think there have been some pretty good tweaks offerred up to improve things, but it all boils down to one major point.... What is the official procedure to make suggested updates to the site/game/guidelines/etc? Seems that yakking about it in here is often just that, yakking about it....

The site doesn't need any improvements for the game to be fun. :laughing:

It is just as fun as when it looked like this

24.7k · February 28, 2008

...One of the things about events is that another business will give you space in anticipation of making $ from you and your attendees. This site is much the same. You make a listing, others view it and have either paid to view it or the ads and eyeballs help pay. This site does make money from you but limits the space (your web page that you create and from which they derive revenue) and your freedom within that space. More than the business with a higher investment. (What's a room in a resteraunt cost compared to a listing on this site?).

So based on that, the cache pages can't list a restaurant name, since even just listing the name is advertising. So list the address? Oh wait, that's advertising people to go to that location, and look! There's a restaurant there. So it's advertising. ...

Based on that, I'm thinking more lattitude on cache pages should be allowed for. Like linking to the online menu.

February 28, 2008

Who out there has tried to create an event, cache or other type of geocaching find that was told that it didn't fit within the rules?

What happens if something is not done to resolve these issues? Simple more people will stop geocaching which is a bad thing.

(Let's see, where did I put that? Is that it? Look under that box, yeah, there it is. My sarcasm hat. Hey, it still fits. Okay, is it straight? It is? Great, here we go.)

Yeah, man, I know what you mean! I know a guy who placed a cache in the middle of an active railroad track, way down low where the train wouldn't hit it, and those reviewers wouldn't approve it, simply because they were afraid some geocacher might get crushed like an overripe tomato trying to find the container. They obviously are trying to kill off the hobby by having stupid rules like that.

And another time, I heard about a cache that got archived for no good reason at all. Like it was in a National Park. and just because there are federal guidelines that say "no caches", those Groundspeak people archived the cache. If they had any brains, they'd loosen up those rules so they could be sanctioning activities in violation of the federal code. That would make a LOT more business sense than the way they do it now!

It's just nuts!

And virtuals.... oh, man, virtuals....... We just HAVE to get those back. I mean, think about it. You can get a smiley by just looking out the window while driving down the road. "Hey, look! It's that big rock I read about! Take my picture in front of it!" Another instant smiley. No log book, none of those silly rules to worry about. Heck, if you're busy, you could always just photoshop yourself into someone else's picture and claim you were there. Yeah, man! It would be just like geocaching, but without the cache.

Here's a thought....

Godaddy.Com will sell you the domain name "www.JustLikeGeocachingButWithoutThoseAnnoyingRules.Com". I just looked, that name is available. You can get it for $9.95/year. Web hosting is pretty cheap these days. Hire a few programmers, three or four should be enough. Get 'em right out of college, they're cheaper that way. Set up your own site, and you'll have instant geocaching without all the rules. Save a few dollars for the lawyers, though. You're going to need them when the surviving family members sue you for helping their loved one get squished like an overripe tomato under the wheels of the passing train. But, you'll be able to take joy in knowing the container was safe.

(Removing sarcasm hat. Now I remember why I don't wear it all the time. It makes my head sweat like a Punjabi masseuse.)

Seriously, you can't find all the nice, safe, non-criminal caches that are out there now. You won't live long enough for that. Chances are, you're limited to the same 120 years all the rest of us get.

Besides that, it's not good policy to complain about the reviewers or the other Groundspeak lackeys. Things like that go on your permanent record.

Happy trails.....................

38.2k · February 28, 2008

Removing this has detracted from the enjoyment of anyone who has been denied permission to publish a cache, or anyone who got free stuff at any of those events, who now can't.

It won't necessarily improve the website, but definitely improved the experience of the people who got the free stuff

So basically the mooches are now locked out. How sad.

February 28, 2008

Removing this has detracted from the enjoyment of anyone who has been denied permission to publish a cache, or anyone who got free stuff at any of those events, who now can't.

It won't necessarily improve the website, but definitely improved the experience of the people who got the free stuff

So basically the mooches are now locked out. How sad.

So you're saying its a bad thing to want something free, or consider it a better experience if you get something free? Ouch...

38.2k · February 28, 2008

Removing this has detracted from the enjoyment of anyone who has been denied permission to publish a cache, or anyone who got free stuff at any of those events, who now can't.

It won't necessarily improve the website, but definitely improved the experience of the people who got the free stuff

So basically the mooches are now locked out. How sad.

So you're saying its a bad thing to want something free, or consider it a better experience if you get something free? Ouch...

Gifts are always nice. But to demand freebies? I think that is poor manners.

February 28, 2008

Why does the ad for said company need to be on the cache page? I've been to plenty of events where the sponsors had banners hung up or just packaged their donated swag along with promotional materials stating that the swag in question was donated by blahblah.com and to come visit for all your swag related needs.

No muss, no fuss... and we had so much swag that every person at the event got something, and a lucky few got two somethings!

DCC

38.2k · February 28, 2008

Why does the ad for said company need to be on the cache page?

I think in the example given earlier, the sponsor required a link in the event page as the price for the freebies.

8.9k · February 28, 2008

TPTB aren't asking for everyone to stop throwing events, they aren't saying we can't have sponsors. We just can't advertise their business for free. You do have the right to use your own website to put ANY details not allowed on the cache/event page (to a point I'd imagine).

If this bothers you so, open your own publishing site for all that need to put out the info not allowed...

One of the things about events is that another business will give you space in anticipation of making $ from you and your attendees. This site is much the same. You make a listing, others view it and have either paid to view it or the ads and eyeballs help pay. This site does make money from you but limits the space (your web page that you create and from which they derive revenue) and your freedom within that space. More than the business with a higher investment. (What's a room in a resteraunt cost compared to a listing on this site?).

My understanding is that you can have a link right on the event page directing them to your own private age which CAN have the sponsor names and links and such!

February 28, 2008

Why does the ad for said company need to be on the cache page?

I think in the example given earlier, the sponsor required a link in the event page as the price for the freebies.

If the sponsor in question runs a geocaching related business and is insisting that the event organizer do something that gc.com doesn't approve of, then they're being really unreasonable. Why would you want to do business with that?

DCC

8k · February 28, 2008

Why does the ad for said company need to be on the cache page?

I think in the example given earlier, the sponsor required a link in the event page as the price for the freebies.

If the sponsor in question runs a geocaching related business and is insisting that the event organizer do something that gc.com doesn't approve of, then they're being really unreasonable. Why would you want to do business with that?

DCC

I guess I can't have a link to TerraCaching.com on the page for my TerraCaching Event listed on Geocaching.com

Interesting - on the TerraCaching.com home page there is a list of top referring sites and Geocaching.com is #3. I'd guess that there are a few pages out there on Geocaching.com that have links to TerraCaching.com on them.

February 29, 2008

Why does the ad for said company need to be on the cache page?

I think in the example given earlier, the sponsor required a link in the event page as the price for the freebies.

If the sponsor in question runs a geocaching related business and is insisting that the event organizer do something that gc.com doesn't approve of, then they're being really unreasonable. Why would you want to do business with that?

DCC

I guess I can't have a link to TerraCaching.com on the page for my TerraCaching Event listed on Geocaching.com

Interesting - on the TerraCaching.com home page there is a list of top referring sites and Geocaching.com is #3. I'd guess that there are a few pages out there on Geocaching.com that have links to TerraCaching.com on them.

Appears a few of the links make it onto the forums as well - heh

1.1k · February 29, 2008

Its just going in circles. Take the back and forth to email please.

24.7k · February 29, 2008

....My understanding is that you can have a link right on the event page directing them to your own private age which CAN have the sponsor names and links and such!

That's more work for a less effective result. In other words it's nothing but artificial complexity. I'm never a fan of that. I already work for the government. My job is to fight that kind of thinking.

2.7k · February 29, 2008

But, the fact remains, there are cachers in my area who don't get free stuff anymore from my sponsor.

Oh well...

Did they quit coming to your events when you stopped giving away free stuff?

I don't think that's the point - I think the point was that there was a very nice addition to the events which benefited those coming at no expense to themselves, and it was stopped because of an overly-restrictive rule.

Same could be said for advertising on GC.com - it lessens the site. Did it slow down people coming to it because now they have to deal with all these ads? Probably not. Did it benefit the people involved to have them - probably (by making more money available for the site). Should it be there? Most would say no.

If it's not slowing people down from coming to the site and if it benefits us to have them, how do you figure it lessens the site?

As for the event question, I host (with the help of a couple other geocachers) about two events a year. We give out a lot of prizes, most of them either handmade or donated by area cachers, though once or twice we've asked for donations from businesses (including Groundspeak). The vast majority of the prizes come out of our own pockets.

No one has ever complained because we don't give out enough prizes and I really doubt they ever will.

Again, that's not the point. No one said you have to have prizes to make an event occur. However, having them makes the event better, and if a little free exchange of advertising allows this to happen, what is the problem.

Isn't this the point behind the site advertising? It doesn't hurt the people to have ads there, and sometimes people click on them, but it benefits the site.

How does it lessen the game of geocaching when cachers or groups do the EXACT same thing as the site? They have someone who is willing to give something (and not even them - just the people who come to the event) to make the event better in trade for some free advertising. I could see if it wasn't family appropriate stuff, but why should the site be allowed to do it, because its a good thing, but players aren't allowed to do it, because... ? Same reason, same result should occur.

I see your point that GC is unfairly limiting free advertisement by others on their site.

So I get to paint "CHEW MAILPOUCH" on the roof of YOUR house, then?

March 2, 2008

What should Geocaching do to resolve these problems:

1. Bring back Virtual Caches and Reverse Caches.

2. Loosen up how event rules and caches are applied.

3. Allow creativity and bending of the rules or more flexible rules!!!!!

4. Geocache administrators should be NICE and allow creativity.

5. Stop trying to force Waymarking on us Geocachers.

Yes I want the virtuals to count as finds on geocaching and not Waymarking!!!!!!!!! We have the right(yes we) to vote to get virtuals and reverse caches back. I only got to do 2 virtuals and 0 reverse.

9.3k · March 2, 2008

We have the right(yes we) to vote to get virtuals and reverse caches back.

Interesting. Where does one go to find these "rights"? I just read, (again), our nation's Bill of Rights and I'm not seeing anything in there granting rights to citizens to dictate policy for a private business, through democratic process, when said business has not put the matter up for vote. Could you elaborate please? I'm wanting Wilderness Systems to give me a new kayak, and if you can link me to the appropriate legal references, I'll hold a vote on the subject.

Thanx!

9.3k · March 2, 2008

using a webpage to host a banner ad doesn't cost anything for the person who is hosting it beyond what it already costs them to have the page.

Actually, that's not true. Typically, the "cost" of a webpage/website is measured in bandwidth. Adding a link adds to the bandwidth, even if the link is never clicked on. Ergo, it costs the website owner more money by its simple existence. Another measure of cost would be lost revenue. Groundspeak probably has a pretty good idea of how much revenue the business will receive from advertisements on their website. If some reviewer were to suddenly decide to allow cache pages to host advertisements, the business would lose money. You do recognize that Groundspeak is a business, and that the primary function of a business is to generate income, right?

The last time I heard this much entitlement was from Nancy Pelosi.

it took them 20 minutes to get to the scene (I was at the scene as a bystander) from the time they were called. We could have had our rescue truck there in half the time, but they chose to protect the paid firefighters' interests over the safety of the people involved in the accident.

My wife was a volunteer fireman, (firewoman?), for the city of Mascotte Florida while I was a police officer there. It was a tiny station, serving a tiny town. They had one ladder truck, one ambulance and one woods truck. To the west of Mascotte, (outside the city limits and outside the assigned area for the town's FD), was an area lovingly referred to as "The Dead Zone", so named because, if you got in a crash out there, you'd probably die before the paid, county firefighters got on scene. Mascotte FD, on the other hand, could get on scene in just minutes. When I, (or any other area law enforcement), heard about a crash in The Dead Zone, we called the Mascotte FD station house ourselves, rather than fight the bureaucracy of the dispatchers. After all, the issue is saving lives, not standing around as bystanders, griping about the paid firefighters... right?

Did you call your station, or were you more concerned with griping than with saving lives?

I believe this website is protecting the interests of one person

No, it is protecting the interest of one business.

Doesn't anyone feel this site is good enough to be improved, rather than just being dumped?

How is cramming event listings full of cheesy advertisements going to benefit me?

I disagree with the managament (whoever it happens to be, as it changes quite often) about some decisions they have made

Hey, there's a surprise.

5.3k · March 2, 2008

Yes I want the virtuals to count as finds on geocaching and not Waymarking!!!!!!!!! We have the right(yes we) to vote to get virtuals and reverse caches back. I only got to do 2 virtuals and 0 reverse.

Yep, you can vote. You just did. Do you feel better now?

Now, whether or not anyone needs to pay heed to your vote is quite another matter.

And last time I checked, private businesses were not democracies.

Taking the Fun ot of GeoCaching - Groundspeak - Geocaching

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