Permission

[+Fuchsiamagic]

This question is mainly aimed at a moderator. I would like to see a definitive statement about the requirement (or not) for obtaining permission to place a cache. GC.com is not a lot of help because it applies to American law and refers to Land Managers. I have yet to come across anything in the UK which spells out exactly where you can put a cache without seeking permission, what sort of places where you need to, and how to go about getting it. What about by a public footpath through the woods for example, or a film-pot by a farm gate?

 

The Geocaching Association of Great Britain's website has some good guidlines on the subject and names a few organisations where permission is given or refused. They also publish a letter to give to landowners requesting permission to place a cache, but the list is not comprehensive and the assumption still seems to be that all caches require permission.

 

I would bet that not many cachers always seek permission, especially where a box is simply thrown under a hedge.

[+The Lavender Hill Mob]

This question is mainly aimed at a moderator. I would like to see a definitive statement about the requirement (or not) for obtaining permission to place a cache. GC.com is not a lot of help because it applies to American law and refers to Land Managers. I have yet to come across anything in the UK which spells out exactly where you can put a cache without seeking permission, what sort of places where you need to, and how to go about getting it. What about by a public footpath through the woods for example, or a film-pot by a farm gate?

 

The Geocaching Association of Great Britain's website has some good guidlines on the subject and names a few organisations where permission is given or refused. They also publish a letter to give to landowners requesting permission to place a cache, but the list is not comprehensive and the assumption still seems to be that all caches require permission.

 

I would bet that not many cachers always seek permission, especially where a box is simply thrown under a hedge.

You're going to open a whole can of worms here I'm saying no more on this subject

[+jerryo]

<snip>

You're going to open a whole can of worms here I'm saying no more on this subject

I'll pull some worms out: I've never asked for permission in areas where I didn't think it likely I would get it. I accidentally put a 7 stage multi in an SSSI area once and just pulled it out when I found out rather than causing problems. I have actually been know to meet our local council rep with a bunch of northeast cachers to discuss the importance of getting permission.

 

edited for stupidity

Edited January 18, 2008 by jerryo

[+The Lavender Hill Mob]

I'll pull some worms out: I've never asked for permission.

[The Royles]

I think you will find that Groundspeak will not want to get involved in what constitutes adequate permission, as they are ONLY a listing service for the caches, they would not want to assume any responsibility for the caches placed. The only times they insist on you fulfilling permission requirements are where there could be big repercussions if permission is not obtained (it would only take a few rogue ones on FC land to convince them that we are not responsible people).

 

In the UK, all land is owned by someone, so technically you need to have permission off the landowner, and to quote Groundspeaks guidelines

 

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location.

 

It is up to the hider to satisfy themselves that they have ADEQUATE permission and in some cases the hider decides that they already have that without asking.

[+Moote]

Basically you have No Legal Rights to place a cache anywhere, therefore it is your risk if you do not request permission to place. It could be considered as littering which now can have a hefty fine and in some cases a prison sentence for repeat offences.

[+little-miss-naughty]

i think you will find this is one subject not spoken much of!!!!!!!

 

im staying out of it

 

lmn

[+chizu]

Basically you have No Legal Rights to place a cache anywhere

 

Apart from your own front garden of course!

[+Pharisee]

.........or a film-pot by a farm gate?

You'll definitely need permission for one of them..... and I'm sorry, I don't give it

[lakeuk]

I think it's simple, to have the cache listed you agree that you've obtained permission, and if an issue arises with the cache you'll be asked to provide evidence of the permission inorder to continue having the cache details listed.

 

Definition of permission could be anything - written, verbal, signed in blood

 

All those with 100's of caches out there - prison sentence

[+Team Sieni]

I love that term "adequate permission". As opposed to what? inadequate permission? What constitutes inadequate permission? A signature forced under duress from the landowner's cat?

 

I've hidden only one cache and got permission from the land manager for it. I'm planning another this year and have approached the body in question for permission (no response yet). I would never hide a cache anywhere without doing this. Not that that gives me the right to be all pompous about it because I often log caches that I know for a fact do not have permission, in fact one of the best that springs to mind definitely has no permission Not telling.

[Lactodorum]

From the Guidelines:

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location.

When you place a cache you agree to this statement:

Yes. I have read and understand the guidelines for listing a cache.

Unless there are particular restrictions the reviewers know about (generally listed on GAGB) we assume you are telling the truth when submitting a cache for review and have satisfied yourself that you have adequate permission.

 

If something susequently comes to light which suggests that adequate permission has not been obtained we will look at the cache again. If a cacher publicly states that they do NOT have permission then we will have to consider the legitimacy of those caches.

 

As for what constitutes Adequate permission, it is very difficult if not impossible to write down what this constitutes. We will always try and use common sense when determining this.

Edited January 17, 2008 by Lactodorum

[+third-degree-witch]

From the Guidelines:

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location.

When you place a cache you agree to this statement:

Yes. I have read and understand the guidelines for listing a cache.

Unless there are particular restrictions the reviewers know about (generally listed on GAGB) we assume you are telling the truth when submitting a cache for review and have satisfied yourself that you have adequate permission.

 

If something susequently comes to light which suggests that adequate permission has not been obtained we will look at the cache again. If a cacher publicly states that they do NOT have permission then we will have to consider the legitimacy of those caches.

 

As for what constitutes Adequate permission, it is very difficult if not impossible to write down what this constitutes. We will always try and use common sense when determining this.

 

Intresting to see Jerryo's caches are still active and not temped

[+The Lavender Hill Mob]

Intresting to see Jerryo's caches are still active and not temped

He was joking , he just made the statement to get the discussion going

 

[+pklong]

If something susequently comes to light which suggests that adequate permission has not been obtained we will look at the cache again. If a cacher publicly states that they do NOT have permission then we will have to consider the legitimacy of those caches.

 

In other words:

 

Geocaching has two rules:

 

1. You do not talk about permission

2. You do not talk about permission.

 

[+jerryo]

My Previous post explains deletion

Edited January 18, 2008 by jerryo

[+Fuchsiamagic]

Dam'ned computer keyboard: never let me finish my sentence. It was meant to be:

 

I've never asked for permission in an area that's likely to be sensitive; I just don't place caches in such places.

When you're already down a hole, don't start digging!

 

Thanks for all the contributions folks. I think my question has been answered!

Edited January 17, 2008 by Fuchsiamagic

[+Moote]

Basically you have No Legal Rights to place a cache anywhere

 

Apart from your own front garden of course!

I think I clarified my statement with:

therefore it is your risk if you do not request permission to place

 

Popping a cache on your own property is assumed permission.

[reelcutter]

I only have one active cache at the moment because of the difficulty getting permission, although I have two more with provisional approval from land owners one of which is the national trust who were pleased I had and I quote " Firstly, thank you for getting in touch before doing anything- a pleasant change from those not having the decency to ask". If we are not careful are we not in danger of upsetting the people who have given permission in the past, from helping us place in the future.

[+Worrit]

This has been interesting to me as I was not sure about the whole permission thing and therefore have not placed my own cache. I think i will be looking into permission and who needs to give it carefully before my first cache is out there for the Geocach community. Just need to work out who to ask.....

[+scottpa100]

This has been interesting to me as I was not sure about the whole permission thing and therefore have not placed my own cache. I think i will be looking into permission and who needs to give it carefully before my first cache is out there for the Geocach community. Just need to work out who to ask.....

 

In Britain, it is fairly easy to find out who is the landowner. For a fee, using the Land Registry. So if you know somewhere that is so amazing and every cacher will be over the moon at the location I suggest you go the Land Registry route. Alternatively, its just about having front. In a park, speak to the gardeners or park keeper. If they are not the right people, then at least they'll know somewhere better to direct your question. Footpaths - speak to the farmer. The farmer is either going to be the land owner or be in contact with the land owner. Woods, if managed, usually have a contact number on a gate or something.

 

Its just about front as I say.

[+jerryo]

This has been interesting to me as I was not sure about the whole permission thing and therefore have not placed my own cache. I think i will be looking into permission and who needs to give it carefully before my first cache is out there for the Geocach community. Just need to work out who to ask.....

 

In Britain, it is fairly easy to find out who is the landowner. For a fee, using the Land Registry. So if you know somewhere that is so amazing and every cacher will be over the moon at the location I suggest you go the Land Registry route. Alternatively, its just about having front. In a park, speak to the gardeners or park keeper. If they are not the right people, then at least they'll know somewhere better to direct your question. Footpaths - speak to the farmer. The farmer is either going to be the land owner or be in contact with the land owner. Woods, if managed, usually have a contact number on a gate or something.

 

Its just about front as I say.

I’ve found that it’s not always as easy as that. I have a cache, near which there is a huge open manhole. I contacted the landowner – the local council – about the dangerous situation and, while they admitted that the path was theirs, they refused to have anything to do with the open pit that lies just off the public footpath. So it appears that in some cases the landowner can only speak with authority about small areas within “their” land. Getting permission to place a cache that is not actually on the path is therefore quite a feat.

 

Often there are vast tracts of land that aren’t registered with the Land Registry – councils often avoid registering as it’s quite an expensive process to register the large amounts of land they have – but if you try to build a shed there, they’ll soon notice. I’d avoid the option of paying the fee unless you really come unstuck. The methods suggested above have their merit, but it’s not always cut and dried.