PN-20 or Colorado 400t?

[+embra]

Well, I've made my decision and taken the plunge.

 

But rather than leaving it up to the toss of a coin I went with my gut and intuition, both of which were telling me to go with the......

 

DeLorme Earthmate GPS PN-20.

If you have any questions about the PN-20's use, be sure to ask here or on the Delorme forum. The latter would be the best choice because you'll catch the eye of more Delorme staff and experienced users than those that frequent here.

[+TJ Willy]

Just a note, but the fact that someone FROM Delorme actually spoke up in this forum speaks volumes for their customer service. If I were on the fence, that might just be the deciding factor for this cacher.

 

WTG Team Delorme for speaking up and mingling with the "people".

[+triturtle]

PCNation is selling the 400t for $487 with no tax and free shipping. That is more than double their price on the etrex vista hcx ($228). But, the colorado is the only unit that I know of that can do these things:

 

1. 3D rendered topo maps (these are NOT the same US Topo maps we all have with other Garmin units)

2. Wherigo - not sure if this is going to be big or not

3. Uploads all cache info, not just the coordinates

4. Much larger screen than the etrex or gpsmap units

5. Much easier to use according to Garmin tech I talked to

6. Takes full sized SD cards, not micro. You can get a 2GB SD card for almost free (in fact I did get one for free after rebate a few months back through a special offer)

 

Now, the question is are these features worth it TO YOU. I'm still on the fence because they are all "I want it", not "I need it" features for me. Life is full of tough choices. In fact I ordered the etrex vista hcx yesterday but entered my cc info wrong and the order didn't go through. I think I'll take that as an omen to wait and buy the colorado..... I think.

[+KJcachers]

Just a note, but the fact that someone FROM Delorme actually spoke up in this forum speaks volumes for their customer service. If I were on the fence, that might just be the deciding factor for this cacher.

 

WTG Team Delorme for speaking up and mingling with the "people".

 

I was thinking the same thing when I read it. Plus, anybody from Maine can't be all bad

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Just a note, but the fact that someone FROM Delorme actually spoke up in this forum speaks volumes for their customer service. If I were on the fence, that might just be the deciding factor for this cacher.

 

WTG Team Delorme for speaking up and mingling with the "people".

 

I was thinking the same thing when I read it. Plus, anybody from Maine can't be all bad

Roger that, and when you read their forums,

http://forums.delorme.com/,

you'll notice that the DeLorme folks particpate there daily.

[+Noscitare]

Just a note, but the fact that someone FROM Delorme actually spoke up in this forum speaks volumes for their customer service. If I were on the fence, that might just be the deciding factor for this cacher.

 

WTG Team Delorme for speaking up and mingling with the "people".

Yup....I had noticed that. And I do believe that it may have provided the final nudge required to tip me to their side and make the PN-20 purchase.

 

And then, just a few hours after placing the order I got an email from DeLorme advising me that the unit had been shipped.

 

I'm looking forward to enjoying both this new hobby and my PN-20.

[+Noscitare]

PCNation is selling the 400t for $487 with no tax and free shipping.

 

Well, since I went with the "Deluxe Bundle" and also purchased the bicycle mount and belt clip carrying case, I spent a bit more that that for the PN-20.

 

But even had I known that 400t's were going to be going for that amount, I think that I would've still chosen the PN-20.

[Wintertime]

the colorado is the only unit that I know of that can do these things:

 

1. 3D rendered topo maps (these are NOT the same US Topo maps we all have with other Garmin units)

Because the 400t isn't out yet, Garmin has not yet posted the user manual on its website. The only specs available just refer to "preloaded topo maps," but give no indication of the scale, which areas are covered, what types of topo files can be added to the system (DRMs? DEMs?), etc. It looks like you've got more info about them, so could you please provide some more details? Thanks!

 

Patty

[+embra]

PCNation is selling the 400t for $487 with no tax and free shipping.

Well, since I went with the "Deluxe Bundle" and also purchased the bicycle mount and belt clip carrying case, I spent a bit more that that for the PN-20.

As you note, your PN-20 includes a lot of things not in the 400T package, muddying direct price comparisons. I think the most significant "extra" in the PN-20 packages is the Delorme Topo7 software. My understanding is that the 400T includes built-in national topo maps, but that doesn't sound like you would be able to use the maps on the computer.

[+KJcachers]

how do these compare as far as accuracy to a GZ compared to say a Magellan? Seems my Magellan is off compared to Garmins but I am not sure how it compares to the DeLorme?

[+elmuyloco5]

PCNation is selling the 400t for $487 with no tax and free shipping.

Well, since I went with the "Deluxe Bundle" and also purchased the bicycle mount and belt clip carrying case, I spent a bit more that that for the PN-20.

As you note, your PN-20 includes a lot of things not in the 400T package, muddying direct price comparisons. I think the most significant "extra" in the PN-20 packages is the Delorme Topo7 software. My understanding is that the 400T includes built-in national topo maps, but that doesn't sound like you would be able to use the maps on the computer.

 

According to some people who have the Colorado already, it doesn't have mapping for the computer, they are only loaded on the unit itself. Plus Delorme offers $100 of additional maps for free right now.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

how do these compare as far as accuracy to a GZ compared to say a Magellan? Seems my Magellan is off compared to Garmins but I am not sure how it compares to the DeLorme?

Scroll back up to post #16 for my pontification regarding accuracy determination and comparison.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

PCNation is selling the 400t for $487 with no tax and free shipping.

Well, since I went with the "Deluxe Bundle" and also purchased the bicycle mount and belt clip carrying case, I spent a bit more that that for the PN-20.

As you note, your PN-20 includes a lot of things not in the 400T package, muddying direct price comparisons. I think the most significant "extra" in the PN-20 packages is the Delorme Topo7 software. My understanding is that the 400T includes built-in national topo maps, but that doesn't sound like you would be able to use the maps on the computer.

 

According to some people who have the Colorado already, it doesn't have mapping for the computer, they are only loaded on the unit itself. Plus Delorme offers $100 of additional maps for free right now.

Please allow me to expand a bit on that:

1. The included $100 worth of free maps are Aerial and Satellite imagery and the USGS 3DTQ (15' series, I think) that may be downloaded using a serial number in the box. These packages may be used on your PC or downloaded to a PN-20, either to its internal storage or to an SD card.

2. The standard PN-20 package includes 3 DVDs with their 3D Topo 7 maps for the USA. There is no extra charge for their Topo series. Their Topo maps are first read and stored in your PC for selected geographical areas (usually several states a state, or substantial portion thereof). Subsequently, selected portions of those may be downloaded to the PN-20, again either to its internal storage or to an SD card.

[+lookielulu]

nice, I am going through the same shopping considerations. GarminMaps60csx is my frontrunner if for no other reason than to have a Garmin for direct downloads from Geocaching.com but the DeLorme's notes will hold 200 characters (sooon to be 800) so paperless would work nicely in 1 device. I also would like the hear from people who have owned Garmins and the DeLorme and see how the accuracy compares. I believe there are some differences between the Garmins and the Magellans.

While searching for a cache I went down a slide with my Garmin in my jeans back pocket. Obviously I was in need of a new GPSr. I purchased the Delorme thinking it was the next great thing. Although it may be I found it very difficult. It was difficult to set up caches. The map program it used to upload caches was very awkward.

More importantly the compass on my unit was not even close. While searching for caches it was 150 to 200 feet off. Also the compass really lagged behind my movement. After two weeks of trying and trying to make the Delorme work I returned it to REI. Fortunately for me REI gave me a full refund and I traded it in and upgraded to the Garmin 60csx. Going back to Garmin after the Delorme I've been a happy cacher ever since. Sort of like going back home when I went back to Garmin. You can't go wrong with the Garmin.

 

And after my purchase I heard about Garmin's Colorado! Darn.

[snakyjake]

I'm looking forward to someone doing a full review and comparison between the Garmin Colorado, Magellan Triton, and Delorme PN-20.

 

I've been using a GPS for many years now. I started with a paper maps, then added a GPS to my navigation tools. I just needed coordinates, and my maps. To me, this is the basics.

 

There's only two reasons for me to upgrade: Integration and GPS performance.

 

Performance:

 

• I think the GPS hardware performs quite nicely now with SiRF III and other equivalent.

 

• Screen quality and resolution. The more map information that I can see at once, the better.

 

• Map speed. Zooming and changing views.

 

Integration:

 

• I want GPS + high quality maps. I do NOT want to compromise these two attributes.

 

• I absolutely require 1:24K terrain resolution maps.

 

• Vector maps at 1:24K still miss crucial details that are contained in the raster maps of same resolution.

 

Planning:

 

• Planning a trip only using the GPS is a real pain. I want to plan my trip using a computer because it is easier, faster, and simply superior. I want the best maps, and best information. I need to see terrain detail, which includes 1:24K terrain and aerial photos. I want good mapping tools that make it easy to plan routes. I also want to add information about my planned trip (photos, notes, etc). I plan and record my trips in detail.

 

Features:

 

• Electronic compass. Must be 3-axis, otherwise too annoying to use to be a feature.

 

• Rugged.

 

Really what I want is a laptop shrunk down to fit into the palm of my hand, with a GPS built-in, with 1:24k maps, and with aerial photography. And to top it all off, I want to do custom maps, like off-road vehicle parks.

 

But what do we have as choices:

 

• Laptop: Too big. Not durable.

• PocketPC: Poor battery. Not rugged enough and won’t last too long in my environment. Not unless I add a case, which adds bulk and weight.

• iPhone: I did see Google maps (satellite/aerial/topo) being used off-road. If you are around cell towers with coverage, this might be a great way to go. Battery performance may be an issue.

• Garmin Colorado: Bigger screen and better resolution. No 1:24k maps (except for National Parks). You can create your own maps, but the competition offers better mapping. Good choice if you don’t mind doing your own maps.

• Magellan Triton: National Geographic Topo looks decent.

• Delorme PN-20: Delorme Topo maps is decent.

• Bushnell: I don’t want to keep paying for map service. Maps are free!

 

Between the Garmin, Magellan, and Delorme, the hardware does what I need it to do. What’s really going to differentiate for me is the mapping software and integration.

 

Since I’ve heard that Garmin can be “hacked” to load custom maps, I may go this route. There’s free maps (nautical, aerial, topo, aeronautical) on the Internet. I just wish Garmin would offer better map software, and I would be content.

 

Jake

[+embra]

The map program it used to upload caches was very awkward. More importantly the compass on my unit was not even close. While searching for caches it was 150 to 200 feet off. Also the compass really lagged behind my movement.

The non-standard interface of Topo7 brings capabilities beyond the standard Windows interface, but it is an extra thing to learn and can frustrate some people. As I have become comfortable with it, I find the two steps of importing the gpx file and exchanging to the GPS to be an easy process...those are going to be the essential steps in nearly any waypoint transfer program. I can understand that it may feel more of a struggle as one is dealing with a new and more unfamiliar than usual program.

 

That compass behavior would drive anyone nuts. The question arose in my head as to whether you had the most recent firmware on there, as I recall compass issues on some of the older versions. There also have been at least a person or two that I know of who had reception issues resolved only when they contacted Delorme and were issued a replacement PN-20 that worked properly for them.

 

I don't think the PN-20 is for everyone, and I'm glad that Delorme (and REI) offer the generous return period. It would be a drag to be stuck with something you really don't care for, but Delorme is willing to let people take it for a spin around the block. I wish I could do trial purchases on all new electronics.

 

Glad you're happy with your Garmin!

[+embra]

Between the Garmin, Magellan, and Delorme, the hardware does what I need it to do. What’s really going to differentiate for me is the mapping software and integration.

 

Since I’ve heard that Garmin can be “hacked” to load custom maps, I may go this route. There’s free maps (nautical, aerial, topo, aeronautical) on the Internet. I just wish Garmin would offer better map software, and I would be content.

You have a well-thought out list that I don't think any handheld can currently satisfy 100%...you'll need to decide which GPS/map combo is the best compromise. Although I own the PN-20, I only know what I've read here about the Triton and Colorado. So this can't be that review, but I'll offer a few comments (acknowledging up front that I'm repeating a few things that you already noted).

 

Performance:

 

Advantage to Colorado and Triton for the size of their displays (all should have good resolution), but Triton seems to have a *lot* more bugs to work out. The Colorado is missing a few features that will probably be added in the next firmware upgrade, but sounds like it otherwise works smoothly. Garmin is the safer bet for fixing any problems, while Magellan presents more of a gamble for early adapters. Map redraws on the PN-20 irk some (but are well within my tolerances).

 

Integration:

 

Your emphasis on maps suggests that Delorme Topo7 is your best bet. You should look closely at the T7 product page to see what you can do with it. PN-20 owners wanting additional capability can buy Delorme's professional XMap program at steep discount to scan in any map they would like to load onto the PN-20.

 

Delorme is a mapping company trying to develop a GPS. Garmin and Magellan are GPS companies trying to develop map capabilities...a more difficult task, I think. Magellan showed the difficulty of the latter task by outsourcing to National Geographic.

 

Planning:

 

Advantage to T7 again...it allows the most annotation, and is the only topo map program I know of that does autorouting. It also autoroutes on trails. You can add roads and trails that allow autorouting. Built-in geotagging ties your photos to your tracks (example).

 

Magellan and Garmin map programs don't do a whole lot more for you than provide the detail maps for the GPS...although my experience has been that the Garmin programs are better than the Magellan programs. Currently, the Triton does not autoroute (surely this will be fixed in the future). Garmin national parks series offers 1:24000 detail, as do the National Geographic maps, of course. NG, which requires purchase state-by-state, doesn't offer autorouting.

 

Features:

 

I presume they're all rugged, but I believe only the Triton has a 3-axis compass. The Colorado is 2-axis, and the PN-20 has no electronic compass.

iPhone: I did see Google maps (satellite/aerial/topo) being used off-road. If you are around cell towers with coverage, this might be a great way to go.

This sounds like a good way to get cheap satellite imagery. Similar imagery is available through Delorme, but coverage of any size will start to add up quickly.

 

Any new GPS has its bugs to sort out. I'm pretty confident Garmin will sort things out with the Colorado; I'm less confident that Magellan will get the Triton up to speed in a reasonable time (they're already earning customer ire). Delorme has had the PN-20 out for a year, and is now beta-testing their 5th firmware upgrade--they've shaken out most of the problems. My main caution is that the PN-20 is not a strong autorouter (T7 does a good job of it, however). But who else will give you a chance to try it out for a month and return it if you find it's not a good fit? (maybe I should add some retailers to that, like REI and Costco).

[+Team CowboyPapa]

The main reason I would take the Colorado 400T over the others is that it supports "Paperless" caching.

 

This is probably a question that only someone who has not yet gone geocaching would ask, so at the risk of appearing like a complete idiot, is this "paperless caching" thing really all that big a deal? I mean, when you go out you're already carrying a pack of some kind with you, correct? Is it really that big of a hassle to carry along a few additional sheets of paper? I've just got to be missing something here.

 

As for the data transfer, I don't currently know anyone else with the slightest interest in trying geocaching, so for the time being I'll be a solo operation.

 

Thanks for the reply. You folks are helping me make my decision. I'm getting closer and closer to hitting that "submit order" button at delorme.com.

 

Regarding the "Paperless" caching issue, as mentioned in post #5 above, DeLorme will increase the number of characters transferred from the DeLorme Topo USA 7.0 PC application to one's PN-20 from 200 to 800.

 

I have just downloaded and tested this as implemented in their Revision 1.4 firmware.

 

Yes, I am satisfied that I can now geocache paperlessly. {if that's a word? }

[+Team CowboyPapa]

nice, I am going through the same shopping considerations. GarminMaps60csx is my frontrunner if for no other reason than to have a Garmin for direct downloads from Geocaching.com but the DeLorme's notes will hold 200 characters (sooon to be 800) so paperless would work nicely in 1 device. I also would like the hear from people who have owned Garmins and the DeLorme and see how the accuracy compares. I believe there are some differences between the Garmins and the Magellans.

While searching for a cache I went down a slide with my Garmin in my jeans back pocket. Obviously I was in need of a new GPSr. I purchased the Delorme thinking it was the next great thing. Although it may be I found it very difficult. It was difficult to set up caches. The map program it used to upload caches was very awkward.

I returned it to REI. Fortunately for me REI gave me a full refund and I traded it in ............

 

I know where you're at. I feel your pain. Happened to me one time.

 

I had this Chevy whose A/C controls were lever type: Temp lever left for cold and right for warm & Fan lever left for low and right for blow dry your hair. Loved it - couldn't be better.

 

Even good things never last forever and the Jeep I bought to replace it had twist the knob A/C controls: one for temp and one for fan. What a nightmare - too hot or too cold; never could figure out how to get it right. Two weeks of exasperation and I tried to return it for refund - NO DEAL. I was STUCK!

 

Going to buy my next truck at REI!

[+dwayne23]

I am really thinking about the PN-20 or the garmin. PN-20 is up by two sence Embra talks so good about it. I have some questions on it though. I would like to know is the screen smaller than the explorist 500 that I use now and will it auto-route as good and I hope better than the explorist which is not very good. I use my explorist to auto-route and it gets me there but nothing to brag about.

 

I will use it mostly for caching but I do hunt and fish and use for that also. Most of the auto-routing is for geocaching but it is nice when you go on vaction.

[+elmuyloco5]

One thing to add..... A major difference between the two also lies within the software that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet. From my understanding with speaking with Garmin the Mapsource TOPO is just that , TOPO. Only major freeways are included for roads. (Someone with a 400t correct me on this if I am wrong)

 

If you get the PN-20 with their TOPO software, it has street level mapping all the way down to local neighborhood streets. It may not be as good as spending $100+ on real street navigation software, but when you consider that you get it thrown if for free with the quality TOPO it is something to consider.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I am really thinking about the PN-20 or the garmin. PN-20 is up by two sence Embra talks so good about it. I have some questions on it though. I would like to know is the screen smaller than the explorist 500 that I use now and will it auto-route as good and I hope better than the explorist which is not very good. I use my explorist to auto-route and it gets me there but nothing to brag about.

 

I will use it mostly for caching but I do hunt and fish and use for that also. Most of the auto-routing is for geocaching but it is nice when you go on vaction.

I can't give you comparative information in this regard. However, I can speak to the PN-20:

 

1. Screen: high-resolution 2.2" Transflective TFT color display (220 x 176 pixels), I have no issues with this screen.

 

2. Auto-routing: 24 hours ago I would not have recommended the PN-20 to anyone who required this capability. (I have an in-dash, OEM GPS NAV unit in my Jeep for this, and my PN-20 is for other uses.) However, since installing their new Beta 1.4 firmware last night and testing some Road Routings, I am now confident that its performance will be acceptable to most. Nevertheless, it does still not compare to an in-dash unit with a 3" x 5" screen and voice guidance.

[+Klatch]

One thing to add..... A major difference between the two also lies within the software that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet. From my understanding with speaking with Garmin the Mapsource TOPO is just that , TOPO. Only major freeways are included for roads. (Someone with a 400t correct me on this if I am wrong)

 

If you get the PN-20 with their TOPO software, it has street level mapping all the way down to local neighborhood streets. It may not be as good as spending $100+ on real street navigation software, but when you consider that you get it thrown if for free with the quality TOPO it is something to consider.

I don't have a Colorado, but I have used Topo 2008 and it does have a lot more roads than just major freeways, including some dirt roads and trails.

Edited January 18, 2008 by Klatch

[+embra]

This page gives several screen shots of Topo 2008, and some side-by-side comparisons that include Delorme Topo 6. You can't get a feel for all the differences, but it's something concrete.

 

If you get the PN-20 with their TOPO software, it has street level mapping all the way down to local neighborhood streets. It may not be as good as spending $100+ on real street navigation software, but when you consider that you get it thrown if for free with the quality TOPO it is something to consider.

Actually, Delorme Topo7 routes better than Magellan Mapsend DirectRoute, and as well as City Navigator (in my experience). The PN-20 has a different routing engine and a lot less processing power than the computer, so that's where it falls behind in creating autoroutes on the fly. Transferring T7 routes to the PN-20 works very well (but takes planning ahead). As CowboyPapa mentioned, the new firmware beta looks like this shortcoming is much diminished. Personally I still favor Garmin's implementation for autorouting as better, but Delorme is closing a lot of the gap here.

[+nptrash]

ive just a few short hours ago received my pn20 from the ups man and after playing around town here with it, im very pleased so far. i am about to load my caches into it and give it another whirl in the morning. as far as i can tell i will be happy with my purchase since it is head,shoulders and torso above my magellan 300,which is soon to become a fairly inexpensive door stop.

[+Noscitare]

I just happened across this thread

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=182625

 

in the Benchmark forum. It gives high praise to the PN-20 and helps reassure my gut that I made the right choice in purchasing the PN-20.

 

Mine should be showing up on my doorstep on Monday or Tuesday.

[+Marky]

One thing to add..... A major difference between the two also lies within the software that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet. From my understanding with speaking with Garmin the Mapsource TOPO is just that , TOPO. Only major freeways are included for roads. (Someone with a 400t correct me on this if I am wrong)

 

If you get the PN-20 with their TOPO software, it has street level mapping all the way down to local neighborhood streets. It may not be as good as spending $100+ on real street navigation software, but when you consider that you get it thrown if for free with the quality TOPO it is something to consider.

I don't have a Colorado, but I have used Topo 2008 and it does have a lot more roads than just major freeways, including some dirt roads and trails.

I have a Colorado, and it has all the streets in my area. I scrolled to a small town in Utah that I visited and it had all the streets there too. I have no idea if this is different in any way to the Topo 2008 product. I'm just glad it has all the streets on it.

 

--Marky

[+elmuyloco5]

One thing to add..... A major difference between the two also lies within the software that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet. From my understanding with speaking with Garmin the Mapsource TOPO is just that , TOPO. Only major freeways are included for roads. (Someone with a 400t correct me on this if I am wrong)

 

If you get the PN-20 with their TOPO software, it has street level mapping all the way down to local neighborhood streets. It may not be as good as spending $100+ on real street navigation software, but when you consider that you get it thrown if for free with the quality TOPO it is something to consider.

I don't have a Colorado, but I have used Topo 2008 and it does have a lot more roads than just major freeways, including some dirt roads and trails.

 

One thing to add..... A major difference between the two also lies within the software that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet. From my understanding with speaking with Garmin the Mapsource TOPO is just that , TOPO. Only major freeways are included for roads. (Someone with a 400t correct me on this if I am wrong)

 

If you get the PN-20 with their TOPO software, it has street level mapping all the way down to local neighborhood streets. It may not be as good as spending $100+ on real street navigation software, but when you consider that you get it thrown if for free with the quality TOPO it is something to consider.

I don't have a Colorado, but I have used Topo 2008 and it does have a lot more roads than just major freeways, including some dirt roads and trails.

I have a Colorado, and it has all the streets in my area. I scrolled to a small town in Utah that I visited and it had all the streets there too. I have no idea if this is different in any way to the Topo 2008 product. I'm just glad it has all the streets on it.

 

--Marky

 

Don't trust the info from any of the techs through Garmin then, that's the info THEY gave me about it. Sounds like another, techs not using the product and just reading off of a computer screen, to me. Good to hear there is mapping for you.

 

 

By the way, called Delorme today to aks a question, they have the PN-20 bundle on sale for $299 with the Sd card, topo software, and card reader. They have the double bundle for $350 that comes with the above and the power pack bundle. I ordered mine and the lady even gave us free 2 day express shipping!! Can't beat that! Excited to get to play with it!!!

[+Klemmer]

Satisfied PN-20 user here. But always looking for the next one.....

 

Question for Colorado user / knowledgeable person:

Q: Where do the Colorado 400t Topo maps come from? DVD come with the unit? What scale & quality are they? If they are "pre-loaded" and cover the whole USA, I have doubts about the level of info & quality. That is a lot of info. Delorme Topo USA is a whole DVD (about 2GB, less the program). For TOP quality Topos (USGS 7.5 minute Quads), it is about a DVD per state (2 DVD's for CA). Something just doesn't seem to compute (pardon the pun). Anyone?

 

BTW: My curiosity about Topo quality is mostly because of Benchmark Hunting & hiking, not geocaching.

[snakyjake]

Satisfied PN-20 user here. But always looking for the next one.....

 

Question for Colorado user / knowledgeable person:

Q: Where do the Colorado 400t Topo maps come from? DVD come with the unit? What scale & quality are they? If they are "pre-loaded" and cover the whole USA, I have doubts about the level of info & quality. That is a lot of info. Delorme Topo USA is a whole DVD (about 2GB, less the program). For TOP quality Topos (USGS 7.5 minute Quads), it is about a DVD per state (2 DVD's for CA). Something just doesn't seem to compute (pardon the pun). Anyone?

 

BTW: My curiosity about Topo quality is mostly because of Benchmark Hunting & hiking, not geocaching.

 

The source I read says the maps preinstalled on the 400t are 1:100,000. Not sure if it is exactly the same as Garmin Topo ($119).

 

I also believe vector maps take less storage than raster USGS Quads.

 

I think your PN-20 is an excellent choice with ability to use 1:24k and Delorme Topo. The Colorado does not have this capability supported, except for national parks.

[+Noscitare]

By the way, called Delorme today to aks a question, they have the PN-20 bundle on sale for $299 with the Sd card, topo software, and card reader. They have the double bundle for $350 that comes with the above and the power pack bundle. I ordered mine and the lady even gave us free 2 day express shipping!! Can't beat that! Excited to get to play with it!!!

Yeesh.

It is just uncanny how often this happens to me: no sooner than I buy something does it go on sale. I think that I must have some kind of curse hovering over me.

[Baumer]

I would give this type of thread so much more credibility if even one PN-20 owner recommended a Garmin, or vice versa. The same goes for Magellan vs the Garmins, it's just an endless series of people defending their own decisions and touting brand loyalty.

 

I do think the 400T has the potential to convert a lot of Explorist users though.

[+Klemmer]

Baumer:

Not really true. I was happy for years with my Magellan Meridian. When the Delorme PN-20 came along, it was a perfect choice for me. If it didn't exist, I would very likely be buying a Colorado right now. Magellan has nothing I'm interested in at the moment (and has so many negatives on customer service....). I'm an equal opportunity user....

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Baumer:

Not really true. I was happy for years with my Magellan Meridian. When the Delorme PN-20 came along, it was a perfect choice for me. If it didn't exist, I would very likely be buying a Colorado right now. Magellan has nothing I'm interested in at the moment (and has so many negatives on customer service....). I'm an equal opportunity user....

Roger that!

After the superficial skim, Baumer needs to go back and give an intensive reading of the following posts: #8, 15, 16, 36, 65, 66, 67 & #74.

[+embra]

It is just uncanny how often this happens to me: no sooner than I buy something does it go on sale. I think that I must have some kind of curse hovering over me.

If I were you, I'd give a call back to them and ask if they might honor the sale price for you. They might say they can't, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they did.

[+Marky]

By the way, called Delorme today to aks a question, they have the PN-20 bundle on sale for $299 with the Sd card, topo software, and card reader. They have the double bundle for $350 that comes with the above and the power pack bundle. I ordered mine and the lady even gave us free 2 day express shipping!! Can't beat that! Excited to get to play with it!!!

Yeesh.

It is just uncanny how often this happens to me: no sooner than I buy something does it go on sale. I think that I must have some kind of curse hovering over me.

I wonder how close to releasing the PN-21 they are, and if the price drop has anything to do with that, or to do with pressure from the competition. I have heard that the PN-21 is supposed to address some of the loudest complaints with the PN-20 (many performance complaints). I think if I were in love with Delorme maps and that was the reason I was leaning towards a PN-20, I'd personally probably wait for the PN-21 to come out.

 

--Marky

[+Klemmer]

PN-21? Chip from Delorme? You there? Spill it for us? PM me? Do you beta test hardware too? I volunteer.

[anethema]

They would be insane to basically instantly halt all sales of current units by announcing a PN-21 on the horizon at any distance. I really doubt chip is going to do that no matter how much he would like to help.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I'm guessing that there will not be a PN-21.

However, I'm all ready to buy a PN-40.

Well, doesn't matter, I'll buy whatever it regardless of its model ID.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

By the way, called Delorme today to aks a question, they have the PN-20 bundle on sale for $299 with the Sd card, topo software, and card reader. They have the double bundle for $350 that comes with the above and the power pack bundle. I ordered mine and the lady even gave us free 2 day express shipping!! Can't beat that! Excited to get to play with it!!!

Yeesh.

It is just uncanny how often this happens to me: no sooner than I buy something does it go on sale. I think that I must have some kind of curse hovering over me.

I wonder how close to releasing the PN-21 they are, and if the price drop has anything to do with that, or to do with pressure from the competition. I have heard that the PN-21 is supposed to address some of the loudest complaints with the PN-20 (many performance complaints). I think if I were in love with Delorme maps and that was the reason I was leaning towards a PN-20, I'd personally probably wait for the PN-21 to come out.

 

--Marky

For enhanced performance, there is no need to wait for a successor GPSr (PN-21 ?) from DeLorme. Their latest firmware, 1.4, is currently in Beta testing. I have tested it and the performance improvements are astonishing.

[+Marky]

For enhanced performance, there is no need to wait for a successor GPSr (PN-21 ?) from DeLorme. Their latest firmware, 1.4, is currently in Beta testing. I have tested it and the performance improvements are astonishing.

That is welcome news for PN-20 owners.

[+embra]

I wonder how close to releasing the PN-21 they are, and if the price drop has anything to do with that, or to do with pressure from the competition. I have heard that the PN-21 is supposed to address some of the loudest complaints with the PN-20 (many performance complaints). I think if I were in love with Delorme maps and that was the reason I was leaning towards a PN-20, I'd personally probably wait for the PN-21 to come out.

Aye, that's always the rub, isn't it? Maybe that's why some of us enjoy submitting ourselves to the early adapter syndrome...whatever troubles we endure, we know that the next model release is as distant in the future as is possible.

 

FWIW, Delorme has had several sales of the PN-20 package over the course of last year. And this markdown seems in line with the past ones. While I will welcome the next iteration, I haven't seen any indicators of imminent release in the Delorme forums.

Edited January 20, 2008 by embra

[+bpcooper14]

I was just on the delorme page and didn't see anything online about the bundles being on sale. They all appeared to be the price that they have been.

[+benjamin921]

Additional PN-20 Bundles

 

Earthmate GPS PN-20 Deluxe BUNDLE $449.95

 

Earthmate GPS PN-20 with Topo USA 7.0 & Power Travel Kit BUNDLE $409.95

 

Earthmate GPS PN-20 with Topo USA 7.0 National BUNDLE $369.95

 

It's there. From the home page click on the main pic with the PN-20 on it and then scroll down and look on the right.

[+Noscitare]

It is just uncanny how often this happens to me: no sooner than I buy something does it go on sale. I think that I must have some kind of curse hovering over me.

If I were you, I'd give a call back to them and ask if they might honor the sale price for you. They might say they can't, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they did.

That's a good idea and I had (briefly) given it some thought. But I've never been much of a haggler. I'm sure that if I lived someplace where haggling is expected I'd be bankrupt 10 times over. I just figure that business is business and that's the way the cookie crumbles. DeLorme is a business and they're in it to make money. I don't hold it against them.

 

Now, on the other hand, if come tomorrow they were to announce the release of the "PN-40".....yeah.....then I do believe that I'd be giving them a call.

[billwedg]

I got a PN-20 a couple months ago to upgrade from a Magellan Sporttrack Map (I think that was the name - I sold it). I really like the Delorme. I don't find the screen size to be an issue. Customer service is great. I bought the one bundled with the 1 gig memory card and reader. The reader didn't work so I called and they sent me a new one very quickly. Nice that the software (which is great) comes with it. That makes it a real bargain. Compact, easily readable screen, pretty intuitive operation, acurate. A huge improvement over the Magellan.

Billwedg

[+Team DeLorme]

PN-21? Chip from Delorme? You there? Spill it for us?

Forum rumors created by stringing together little bits of information... very exciting stuff...

 

We announced the LT-40 at CES.

 

http://www.engadget.com/tag/DeLorme/

 

This is our Lap Top GPS antenna that runs with Street Atlas USA. Some of our forum posters started sharing feature requests and ideas for future products... Some posters labeled their ideas the PN-40 and the PN-60; others referenced the PN-21...

 

They were all good customer suggestions... you can read about them on the PN-20 forum and are welcome to post your own ideas. We are always looking for creative suggestions. Unfortunately, the forum posters haven't shared their release schedule with us yet...

 

If anyone is looking to try out the PN-20 I'd recommend taking advantage of the sale price. It's not a permanent price reduction; it's just a good deal for a limited time. Remember the 30 day money back guarantee and let me know if you have any questions.

 

Thanks!

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

[+elmuyloco5]

Yeesh.

It is just uncanny how often this happens to me: no sooner than I buy something does it go on sale. I think that I must have some kind of curse hovering over me.

 

Call them, I bet they'll help you out.

 

I would give this type of thread so much more credibility if even one PN-20 owner recommended a Garmin, or vice versa. The same goes for Magellan vs the Garmins, it's just an endless series of people defending their own decisions and touting brand loyalty.

 

I do think the 400T has the potential to convert a lot of Explorist users though.

Not true at all. I currently have a Magellan Meridian Platinum and love it. It's just time to upgrade. We bought two separate Triton 500 units and gave up with all the problems they're having. We looked into the PSP with their add on GPS and decided map cutting wasn't for us. We looked into the Colorado and didn't like what you got for the high price. I don't want to buy an older Garmin as it doesn't make sense to pay the price they want for them when newer technology is out. We also just got and took back an HP Ipaq 5915 as we were having too much trouble with it for geocaching.

 

The thread is about PN-20s, so that's what we're all talking about. You'd have to change the thread title to stay on topic with other models.

 

I was just on the delorme page and didn't see anything online about the bundles being on sale. They all appeared to be the price that they have been.

 

Additional PN-20 Bundles

 

Earthmate GPS PN-20 Deluxe BUNDLE $449.95

 

Earthmate GPS PN-20 with Topo USA 7.0 & Power Travel Kit BUNDLE $409.95

 

Earthmate GPS PN-20 with Topo USA 7.0 National BUNDLE $369.95

 

It's there. From the home page click on the main pic with the PN-20 on it and then scroll down and look on the right.

 

No, no, no......you have to CALL them. It's not listed on their site. Don't know why. The bundle with the SD, software, and the card reader is on sale for $299. The deluxe bundle listed above that has the SD card, software, card reader, and the power travel kit is on sale for $349. The lady gave us free 2 day express shipping and with tax it came to $367. She said it was their winter clearance sale. We will be getting ours on Wed (due to the holiday on Monday, it skipped a day of the shipping).

[+benjamin921]

 

No, no, no......you have to CALL them. It's not listed on their site. Don't know why. The bundle with the SD, software, and the card reader is on sale for $299. The deluxe bundle listed above that has the SD card, software, card reader, and the power travel kit is on sale for $349. The lady gave us free 2 day express shipping and with tax it came to $367. She said it was their winter clearance sale. We will be getting ours on Wed (due to the holiday on Monday, it skipped a day of the shipping).

Correct, thanks. I just re-read the original post and missed the part about them listing the sale price.

[+elmuyloco5]

Something else to mention that people might not be aware of, the PN-20 can be hooked up to your computer and used through it to navigate as well. So if you are looking for a larger screen to navigate with and carry your laptop, it will also function this way.