Any one else find micros boring?

[+TrailGators]

My handicap is mental.

I didn't know that. Do you get to park in the good spots? No disrespect intended but one of my favorite Gallagher lines is, "If it wasn't for handicapped people, I'd never have a place to park." Somehow, I don't think Gallagher would prefer micros....

[+Yosemite Dan]

The only way I care for micro's are in a urban environment where in many cases it hard to hide a larger cach and you have to be more creative in the hide . However in a rural area I always prefer a larger cach for trading swag and the excitment of the treasure and again you can be more creative on the hide out in the country. All in all, all caches have there place

[+TexasGringo]

What exactly is it about the micro that you don't enjoy? The difficulty? The inability to trade swag?

 

The location. The overwhelming majority of the ones I've found were in places that I no interest in visiting

for recreational purposes. Strip malls, highway guard rails, big box store parking lots, city street corners, etc...

 

Micros themselves are really only a problem for people that like to trade swag...

 

Not true. I rarely trade, so that isn't my problem with micros (see above).

 

I've been putting out some micros in very easy hiding spots so the Handi-Capped people can play the game too.

 

What makes you think that handicap people want to find only micros?

 

***What makes you think that handicap people want to find only micros?***

 

Maybe they don't but until there is a easy place to put an ammo box for a wheel chair to reach...and not reached by muggles...that will have to do.

 

Now, if you have some Ideas...I'm all ears, eyes...etc...or, I'll take personal emails.

[+TrailGators]

What exactly is it about the micro that you don't enjoy? The difficulty? The inability to trade swag?

 

The location. The overwhelming majority of the ones I've found were in places that I no interest in visiting

for recreational purposes. Strip malls, highway guard rails, big box store parking lots, city street corners, etc...

 

Micros themselves are really only a problem for people that like to trade swag...

 

Not true. I rarely trade, so that isn't my problem with micros (see above).

 

I've been putting out some micros in very easy hiding spots so the Handi-Capped people can play the game too.

 

What makes you think that handicap people want to find only micros?

***What makes you think that handicap people want to find only micros?***

 

Maybe they don't but until there is a easy place to put an ammo box for a wheel chair to reach...and not reached by muggles...that will have to do.

 

Now, if you have some Ideas...I'm all ears, eyes...etc...or, I'll take personal emails.

My suggestion would be to find some 1/1 smalls or regulars and then apply what you learn.

[+KBI]

My handicap is mental.

I didn't know that. Do you get to park in the good spots?

I enjoy walking, which makes just about every parking spot a good spot.

 

My mental defect prevents me from being "properly" disappointed by lack of creativity, which allows me to enjoy just about any guideline-compliant geocache.

[+TrailGators]

My handicap is mental.

I didn't know that. Do you get to park in the good spots?

I enjoy walking, which makes just about every parking spot a good spot.

 

My mental defect prevents me from being "properly" disappointed by lack of creativity, which allows me to enjoy just about any guideline-compliant geocache.

I felt that way when I was at 462 caches too. There wasn't a cache that I wouldn't find. I think everyone has a different line, so it's hard to be empathetic until you've crossed that line. Edited December 3, 2007 by TrailGators

[+Ambrosia]

I've been putting out some micros in very easy hiding spots so the Handi-Capped people can play the game too. These are puzzles to give a challenge but once the coordinates are found...a wheelchair can get to them.

Out of curiosity, you couldn't put regulars out that are accessible? We did. Well, one is now a bit harder as the bush lost most of its cover and I moved it. The last 3 feet are going to be a bit tougher, but doable.

I was also thinking that handicapped people need one star terrain caches, but they don't need one star difficulty caches because it isn't their brains that are handicapped. I bet a lot of them would appreciate great cammo as well as caches that allow them to trade normal size swag!

It depends on the handicap! Give me a good 1/1 any day!!!

Look around. I think you got your wish. What's a bad 1/1 to you?

One that involves a puzzle, or is a tricky hide!

 

My handicap is mental.

Exactly what I was saying. Part of my "handicap" is mental. I've always been bad at puzzles and tricky things, but now it's much harder, and it takes some of the fun out of it for me. So, when people say that handicaps don't affect the brain, that's a broad statement. Don't think that it's nice to make terrain 1 / difficulty 3 or something hides for handicapped people. That may be the case for a lot, but not all. And besides, not all people need puzzles or difficult hides.

[+Confucius' Cat]

Whether or not the micro is boring will depend on the location, the cleverness of the hide, and it' dissimilarity to other caches.

 

Yes, after the fourth or fifth magnetic key holder stuck to a sign, I noted a pattern developing.

I agree. I love cleverly hidden micros. Micros themselves are really only a problem for people that like to trade swag, but those people can easily run pocket queries to target regular sized caches. However, if the real beef is being able to sort out cleverly hidden micros from non-cleverly hidden micros that is tougher to do. The easiest way is to filter out all micros with a difficulty < 2.

That simply isn't true. The Team doesn't trade swag. The Team thinks that all micros suck. Sucking is waaaayyy beyond boring on the 'official least favo cache rating scale' version 45.345-A rev. 05/07

 

Therefore The Team filters out all micros in our PQ's regardless of their difficulty rating. The Team has been doing this for about 2 years now and our cache hunting enjoyment level has improved significantly.

We have a couple of very clever cachers down here that have hidden some awesome micros. I bet even The Team would enjoy these. So maybe a better method would be to ignore all micros and just add back in ones fthat are highly recommended. I do agree that 99% of the lame caches I have found have been micros.

 

That right there is a bet that you'd be certain to lose.

Nothing like deciding you are going to dislike something before you set out to try it. If you bet you will not enjoy yourself, it is indeed a sure bet. The only way to win that bet would be to like the cache. Then you would be miserable because you lost the bet. Then since you are miserable, you win. Well actually, you lose. But you won. Sorta.

 

I couldn't live like that. I have to try new things before I make up my mind that i don't like them. I try and many times I am disappointed but sometimes I find something new that i like - sometimes it is something I like A LOT.

 

Each new hide is a new experience. Although many (perhaps most) micros are without a doubt lame, there really is no effective filter for lame. By categorically eliminating any particular attribute, one runs the risk of missing out on something cool.

 

I do not debate the time budgeting benefit of eliminating micros as a whole category if one rarely enjoys them, but it is categorically wrong to expect that there are absolutely no worthwhile and exceptional micros.

 

Thomas Edison, (who was nowhere near as cool as Nikola Tesla, but I digress), tried over 2000 things that did not work before he found one that did work as a lightbulb filament. The disappointment of the 2000 was no doubt great, but was far overshadowed by the first "winner" (and many subsequent improvements thereafter).

[+Team Cotati]

Whether or not the micro is boring will depend on the location, the cleverness of the hide, and it' dissimilarity to other caches.

 

Yes, after the fourth or fifth magnetic key holder stuck to a sign, I noted a pattern developing.

I agree. I love cleverly hidden micros. Micros themselves are really only a problem for people that like to trade swag, but those people can easily run pocket queries to target regular sized caches. However, if the real beef is being able to sort out cleverly hidden micros from non-cleverly hidden micros that is tougher to do. The easiest way is to filter out all micros with a difficulty < 2.

That simply isn't true. The Team doesn't trade swag. The Team thinks that all micros suck. Sucking is waaaayyy beyond boring on the 'official least favo cache rating scale' version 45.345-A rev. 05/07

 

Therefore The Team filters out all micros in our PQ's regardless of their difficulty rating. The Team has been doing this for about 2 years now and our cache hunting enjoyment level has improved significantly.

We have a couple of very clever cachers down here that have hidden some awesome micros. I bet even The Team would enjoy these. So maybe a better method would be to ignore all micros and just add back in ones fthat are highly recommended. I do agree that 99% of the lame caches I have found have been micros.

 

That right there is a bet that you'd be certain to lose.

Nothing like deciding you are going to dislike something before you set out to try it. If you bet you will not enjoy yourself, it is indeed a sure bet. The only way to win that bet would be to like the cache. Then you would be miserable because you lost the bet. Then since you are miserable, you win. Well actually, you lose. But you won. Sorta.

 

I couldn't live like that. I have to try new things before I make up my mind that i don't like them. I try and many times I am disappointed but sometimes I find something new that i like - sometimes it is something I like A LOT.

 

Each new hide is a new experience. Although many (perhaps most) micros are without a doubt lame, there really is no effective filter for lame. By categorically eliminating any particular attribute, one runs the risk of missing out on something cool.

 

I do not debate the time budgeting benefit of eliminating micros as a whole category if one rarely enjoys them, but it is categorically wrong to expect that there are absolutely no worthwhile and exceptional micros.

 

Thomas Edison, (who was nowhere near as cool as Nikola Tesla, but I digress), tried over 2000 things that did not work before he found one that did work as a lightbulb filament. The disappointment of the 2000 was no doubt great, but was far overshadowed by the first "winner" (and many subsequent improvements thereafter).

 

"Missing something cool", now THAT would really break my heart.

[+TrailGators]

I've been putting out some micros in very easy hiding spots so the Handi-Capped people can play the game too. These are puzzles to give a challenge but once the coordinates are found...a wheelchair can get to them.

Out of curiosity, you couldn't put regulars out that are accessible? We did. Well, one is now a bit harder as the bush lost most of its cover and I moved it. The last 3 feet are going to be a bit tougher, but doable.

I was also thinking that handicapped people need one star terrain caches, but they don't need one star difficulty caches because it isn't their brains that are handicapped. I bet a lot of them would appreciate great cammo as well as caches that allow them to trade normal size swag!

It depends on the handicap! Give me a good 1/1 any day!!!

Look around. I think you got your wish. What's a bad 1/1 to you?

One that involves a puzzle, or is a tricky hide.

Unless someone rates their cache incorrectly, a 1/1 can't be a tricky hide or a difficult puzzle. By definition, a 1/1 is as easy as a cache can get. Edited December 3, 2007 by TrailGators

[+TrailGators]

Don't think that it's nice to make terrain 1 / difficulty 3 or something hides for handicapped people. That may be the case for a lot, but not all. And besides, not all people need puzzles or difficult hides.

There gazillions of 1/1s. So if someone wanted to make a 3/1, then that is not nice?

[+KBI]

My handicap is mental.

I didn't know that. Do you get to park in the good spots?

I enjoy walking, which makes just about every parking spot a good spot.

 

My mental defect prevents me from being "properly" disappointed by lack of creativity, which allows me to enjoy just about any guideline-compliant geocache.

I felt that way when I was at 462 caches too.

You need to look a bit more closely at my profile.

 

There wasn't a cache that I wouldn't find. I think everyone has a different line, so it's hard to be empathetic until you've crossed that line.

I sincerely hope I never lose my ability to enjoy this game as much as I do right now, but if it happens I'll be sure to let you know.

 

I have been Geocaching for more than five years. I am at 1028 smileys as of this weekend (I happily claimed FTF on a simple parking lot micro two days ago), and I am still consistently finding something to enjoy about pretty much every cache I find ... or DNF. I have never suffered from the snobbish, highbrow disgust over certain hides that some folks seem to enjoy griping about, and I sure hope I never do.

 

Here’s to my pleasant little mental defect; may it stay with me for a looooong time.

Edited December 3, 2007 by KBI

[+TrailGators]

I have never suffered from the snobbish, highbrow disgust over certain hides that some folks seem to enjoy griping about, and I sure hope I never do.

I have no idea who you are talking about. Everyone seems cool to me. Anyhow, we were discussing how micros can become boring, which is what this thread is about.

[+TrailGators]

If the original infamous bucket (and those that followed) had nothing but a log to sign, do you think this sport would have taken off like it has?

I think it would have because there will always be creative people or people that will take you to cool places. The key is learning who those people are!

[+Renegade Knight]

If the original infamous bucket (and those that followed) had nothing but a log to sign, do you think this sport would have taken off like it has?

I think it would have because there will always be creative people or people that will take you to cool places. The key is learning who those people are!

We should have a rating system for hiders.

[+TrailGators]

If the original infamous bucket (and those that followed) had nothing but a log to sign, do you think this sport would have taken off like it has?

I think it would have because there will always be creative people or people that will take you to cool places. The key is learning who those people are!

We should have a rating system for hiders.

Absolutely!

[+TeamThom]

Finding micro caches is way better than not caching at all. I prefer larger caches myself but live in the city with not nearly enough time for all the day long caching trips that I would like. I've run across a few micro caches with long logs, they clearly serve a segment of the caching community.

[+Ambrosia]

I've been putting out some micros in very easy hiding spots so the Handi-Capped people can play the game too. These are puzzles to give a challenge but once the coordinates are found...a wheelchair can get to them.

Out of curiosity, you couldn't put regulars out that are accessible? We did. Well, one is now a bit harder as the bush lost most of its cover and I moved it. The last 3 feet are going to be a bit tougher, but doable.

I was also thinking that handicapped people need one star terrain caches, but they don't need one star difficulty caches because it isn't their brains that are handicapped. I bet a lot of them would appreciate great cammo as well as caches that allow them to trade normal size swag!

It depends on the handicap! Give me a good 1/1 any day!!!

Look around. I think you got your wish. What's a bad 1/1 to you?

One that involves a puzzle, or is a tricky hide.

Unless someone rates their cache incorrectly, a 1/1 can't be a tricky hide or a difficult puzzle. By definition, a 1/1 is as easy as a cache can get.

Lol, you're right. I did say that I had a mental handicap.

[+Ambrosia]

Don't think that it's nice to make terrain 1 / difficulty 3 or something hides for handicapped people. That may be the case for a lot, but not all. And besides, not all people need puzzles or difficult hides.

There gazillions of 1/1s. So if someone wanted to make a 3/1, then that is not nice?

That's not what I said. I was saying that people shouldn't automatically assume that if handicapped people have to find easy caches, then they would appreciate it if you made the caches difficult some other way, like making a puzzle or a tricky hide, because their brains are fine. This is not always the case, and so I was just mentioning that.

[+TrailGators]

Don't think that it's nice to make terrain 1 / difficulty 3 or something hides for handicapped people. That may be the case for a lot, but not all. And besides, not all people need puzzles or difficult hides.

There gazillions of 1/1s. So if someone wanted to make a 3/1, then that is not nice?

That's not what I said. I was saying that people shouldn't automatically assume that if handicapped people have to find easy caches, then they would appreciate it if you made the caches difficult some other way, like making a puzzle or a tricky hide, because their brains are fine. This is not always the case, and so I was just mentioning that.

Nor did I say that it was always the case. So is there some action that should or should not be taken based on what you said? Sorry Ambrosia, but I'm not following the point of this.

[+Ambrosia]

Don't think that it's nice to make terrain 1 / difficulty 3 or something hides for handicapped people. That may be the case for a lot, but not all. And besides, not all people need puzzles or difficult hides.

There gazillions of 1/1s. So if someone wanted to make a 3/1, then that is not nice?

That's not what I said. I was saying that people shouldn't automatically assume that if handicapped people have to find easy caches, then they would appreciate it if you made the caches difficult some other way, like making a puzzle or a tricky hide, because their brains are fine. This is not always the case, and so I was just mentioning that.

Nor did I say that it was always the case. So is there some action that should or should not be taken based on what you said? Sorry Ambrosia, but I'm not following the point of this.

I'm was just pointing it out to make sure that people were aware of it and didn't think in absolutes. It was an observation, not necessarily a request for action.

[+meralgia]

Finding micro caches is way better than not caching at all.

My big disappointment when I started caching was the lack of caches between my mother and me (a 20-minute drive). That has since been taken care of... ; )

 

I live in the city with not nearly enough time for all the day long caching trips that I would like.

Agreed! Edited December 3, 2007 by meralgia

[+TrailGators]

Don't think that it's nice to make terrain 1 / difficulty 3 or something hides for handicapped people. That may be the case for a lot, but not all. And besides, not all people need puzzles or difficult hides.

There gazillions of 1/1s. So if someone wanted to make a 3/1, then that is not nice?

That's not what I said. I was saying that people shouldn't automatically assume that if handicapped people have to find easy caches, then they would appreciate it if you made the caches difficult some other way, like making a puzzle or a tricky hide, because their brains are fine. This is not always the case, and so I was just mentioning that.

Nor did I say that it was always the case. So is there some action that should or should not be taken based on what you said? Sorry Ambrosia, but I'm not following the point of this.

I'm was just pointing it out to make sure that people were aware of it and didn't think in absolutes. It was an observation, not necessarily a request for action.

I don't think anyone was being absolute. I was suggesting that there should be all types of difficulties for all types of people. Right now it seems like ~90% of all micros are easy. Someone can hide 10 easy micros in the time that someone else can hide one creative micro (more difficult). So the balance is off. So IMHO, we could use some more difficult hides for the handicapped people and others that enjoy those types.

[+sbell111]

I don't really care for 'difficult' caches. Personally, I preferred the game before people started to think it was fun to try to one-up each other by making the caches harder and harder to find.

 

That being said, I like to find caches. There is definitely a place for 1/1 micros. Many people really, really enjoy finding lots of these. When people lament that there are more easy peasy caches and few hard ones, I don't understand their angst because that sounds about right, to me. Many of the people that like easy peasy caches either don't have the time to work on finding the hard ones or want to find more caches in a stretch. Therefore, a higher percentage of easy peasy caches are necessary to meet the need.

 

Also, I don't get the argument that people should make caches harder or larger, if they can. It's not like my hiding a 1/1 micro precludes anyone from hiding a 5/1 ammo box. To the argument that my easy peasy cache is 'blocking' the location that could have heald a harder, larger cache, 'Waah. You snooze, you lose. Find a different location for your cache.'

• Hide what you like to find.
  
• Take steps to weed out caches that you wouldn't like to find, so you will most likely be happy.
  
• Keep a good attitude because that's the source of enjoyment, not the cache.
  
• Those of you who have decided to know longer go after micros (or any other caches) because you don't enjoy the bulk of them are doing it right. Have fun.
  

[+TrailGators]

I don't really care for 'difficult' caches. Personally, I preferred the game before people started to think it was fun to try to one-up each other by making the caches harder and harder to find.

 

That being said, I like to find caches. There is definitely a place for 1/1 micros. Many people really, really enjoy finding lots of these. When people lament that there are more easy peasy caches and few hard ones, I don't understand their angst because that sounds about right, to me. Many of the people that like easy peasy caches either don't have the time to work on finding the hard ones or want to find more caches in a stretch. Therefore, a higher percentage of easy peasy caches are necessary to meet the need.

 

Also, I don't get the argument that people should make caches harder or larger, if they can. It's not like my hiding a 1/1 micro precludes anyone from hiding a 5/1 ammo box. To the argument that my easy peasy cache is 'blocking' the location that could have heald a harder, larger cache, 'Waah. You snooze, you lose. Find a different location for your cache.'

• Hide what you like to find.
  
• Take steps to weed out caches that you wouldn't like to find, so you will most likely be happy.
  
• Keep a good attitude because that's the source of enjoyment, not the cache.
  
• Those of you who have decided to know longer go after micros (or any other caches) because you don't enjoy the bulk of them are doing it right. Have fun.
  

Sbell, you need to understand the context of the discussion. Someone made a comment that they were hiding "easy" caches to help handicapped people. We were simply questioning what made them think that handicapped people didn't enjoy good cammo. I didn't think this was a valid assumption.

 

You have never agreed with me on this but if Cacher A hides 400 easy caches in the same anount of time that Cacher Z hides 30 cool cammo caches then the balance is tipped towards what Cacher A likes and not on what the community would actually prefer. I agree that a lot of people will find any cache. But I don't agree that many of these same people would not appreciate a cool hide. What makes micros boring for many is a lack of thought or creativity that produces a ton of micros that are hidden in the exact same way. It's the old "Been There Done That." thing. Nobody is forcing people to hide better micros. It is just something being brought up for people to consider.

[Mushtang]

Sbell, you need to understand the context of the discussion. Someone made a comment that they were hiding "easy" caches to help handicapped people. We were simply questioning what made them think that handicapped people didn't enjoy good cammo. I didn't think this was a valid assumption.

No, actually the topic of this thread is about micros being boring. Your handicapped discussion is off topic and should be taken to a different thread.

 

You DO want to stay on topic, don't you?

[+TrailGators]

Sbell, you need to understand the context of the discussion. Someone made a comment that they were hiding "easy" caches to help handicapped people. We were simply questioning what made them think that handicapped people didn't enjoy good cammo. I didn't think this was a valid assumption.

No, actually the topic of this thread is about micros being boring. Your handicapped discussion is off topic and should be taken to a different thread.

 

You DO want to stay on topic, don't you?

It is on topic because the run-of-the-mill easy caches are the ones that are most often boring.

[+sbell111]

I don't really care for 'difficult' caches. Personally, I preferred the game before people started to think it was fun to try to one-up each other by making the caches harder and harder to find.

 

That being said, I like to find caches. There is definitely a place for 1/1 micros. Many people really, really enjoy finding lots of these. When people lament that there are more easy peasy caches and few hard ones, I don't understand their angst because that sounds about right, to me. Many of the people that like easy peasy caches either don't have the time to work on finding the hard ones or want to find more caches in a stretch. Therefore, a higher percentage of easy peasy caches are necessary to meet the need.

 

Also, I don't get the argument that people should make caches harder or larger, if they can. It's not like my hiding a 1/1 micro precludes anyone from hiding a 5/1 ammo box. To the argument that my easy peasy cache is 'blocking' the location that could have heald a harder, larger cache, 'Waah. You snooze, you lose. Find a different location for your cache.'

• Hide what you like to find.
  
• Take steps to weed out caches that you wouldn't like to find, so you will most likely be happy.
  
• Keep a good attitude because that's the source of enjoyment, not the cache.
  
• Those of you who have decided to know longer go after micros (or any other caches) because you don't enjoy the bulk of them are doing it right. Have fun.
  

Sbell, you need to understand the context of the discussion. Someone made a comment that they were hiding "easy" caches to help handicapped people. We were simply questioning what made them think that handicapped people didn't enjoy good cammo. I didn't think this was a valid assumption.

My post was completely on topic with the topic of the thread and on your side issue.

 

My point, of course, is that some people like easy ones and some people like difficult ones. Whether a person is handicapped, or not, merely muddies the waters. Just because you like difficult ones is no reason not to hide easy ones.

You have never agreed with me on this but if Cacher A hides 400 easy caches in the same anount of time that Cacher Z hides 30 cool cammo caches then the balance is tipped towards what Cacher A likes and not on what the community would actually prefer. I agree that a lot of people will find any cache. But I don't agree that many of these same people would not appreciate a cool hide.

I guess that you didn't read my post or the post of others who made the same point.

 

Some people don't have the time or interest to find a devilishly camoed cache. If a person can give 30 minutes a day to the game, they will not be able to go after the higher difficulty caches. Instead, they'll consistently enjoy the lower difficulty ones. If a player enjoys trying to find as many caches in a day as he can, he is likely to skip the higher difficulty (and terrain) caches. Instead, he'll find lots of easy peasy caches and love doing it.

 

People don't all play the game in the same way. That doesn't mean that someone that enjoys playing differently than you do is doing it wrong.

What makes micros boring for many is a lack of thought or creativity that produces a ton of micros that are hidden in the exact same way. It's the old "Been There Done That." thing. Nobody is forcing people to hide better micros. It is just something being brought up for people to consider.

I'm sorry, but you seem to be fighting against an argument that no one is making.

[+sbell111]

Sbell, you need to understand the context of the discussion. Someone made a comment that they were hiding "easy" caches to help handicapped people. We were simply questioning what made them think that handicapped people didn't enjoy good cammo. I didn't think this was a valid assumption.

No, actually the topic of this thread is about micros being boring. Your handicapped discussion is off topic and should be taken to a different thread.

 

You DO want to stay on topic, don't you?

It is on topic because the run-of-the-mill easy caches are the ones that are most often boring.

You find them to be boring. That's a valid feeling, but you have to understand that other people enjoy them. Therefore, the best solution is not to alter the caches that other people enjoy hiding and finding, but to alter how you decide which caches to hunt. That way, everybody stays happy.

[+TrailGators]

You find them to be boring. That's a valid feeling, but you have to understand that other people enjoy them. Therefore, the best solution is not to alter the caches that other people enjoy hiding and finding, but to alter how you decide which caches to hunt. That way, everybody stays happy.

Sbell, your theory only works IF everyone hides equal amounts of caches. That way there is an equal and perfectly balanced mix of what everyone in the community likes. However, when you have people that hide 400+ boring caches it throws off the balance. It is not reasonable to expect someone else to counter that by hiding 400+ clever caches. The clever caches take a lot of time to prepare and hide. So if people are aware of the balance then maybe they can hide something that they also enjoy that would shift things back in balance. That was all I was saying.

[+Moose Mob]

Please keep the conversation generasl and stay our of the weeds... and... let's not make this personal.

 

Thank you

[+sbell111]

You find them to be boring. That's a valid feeling, but you have to understand that other people enjoy them. Therefore, the best solution is not to alter the caches that other people enjoy hiding and finding, but to alter how you decide which caches to hunt. That way, everybody stays happy.

Sbell, your theory only works IF everyone hides equal amounts of caches. That way there is an equal and perfectly balanced mix of what everyone in the community likes. However, when you have people that hide 400+ boring caches it throws off the balance. It is not reasonable to expect someone else to counter that by hiding 400+ clever caches. The clever caches take a lot of time to prepare and hide. So if people are aware of the balance then maybe they can hide something that they also enjoy that would shift things back in balance. That was all I was saying.

Actually, I believe that you have it completely backwards.

 

Imagine that there are two cachers in a specific area. Both cachers only play the game on Saturdays, but save the entire day for the game. One cacher likes to challenge himself by hiking at least ten miles to the cache. The other cacher likes to challenge himself to find more caches than he did the prior Saturday.

 

In this local area, an equal number of cachers are hidden. Each month, 5 hiking caches are hidden and five easy peasy caches are hidden.

 

In this scenario, the hiker will never run out of caches and the numbers guy will never have enough caches. Obviously, you would need to have a higher percentage of easy peasy caches to keep these two cachers satisfied.

 

(edited to add that the number of cache finders makes no difference to this ratio)

Edited December 3, 2007 by sbell111

[+TrailGators]

You find them to be boring. That's a valid feeling, but you have to understand that other people enjoy them. Therefore, the best solution is not to alter the caches that other people enjoy hiding and finding, but to alter how you decide which caches to hunt. That way, everybody stays happy.

Sbell, your theory only works IF everyone hides equal amounts of caches. That way there is an equal and perfectly balanced mix of what everyone in the community likes. However, when you have people that hide 400+ boring caches it throws off the balance. It is not reasonable to expect someone else to counter that by hiding 400+ clever caches. The clever caches take a lot of time to prepare and hide. So if people are aware of the balance then maybe they can hide something that they also enjoy that would shift things back in balance. That was all I was saying.

Actually, I believe that you have it completely backwards.

 

Imagine that there are two cachers in a specific area. Both cachers only play the game on Saturdays, but save the entire day for the game. One cacher likes to challenge himself by hiking at least ten miles to the cache. The other cacher likes to challenge himself to find more caches than he did the prior Saturday.

 

In this local area, an equal number of cachers are hidden. Each month, 5 hiking caches are hidden and five easy peasy caches are hidden.

 

In this scenario, the hiker will never run out of caches and the numbers guy will never have enough caches. Obviously, you would need to have a higher percentage of easy peasy caches to keep these two cachers satisfied.

 

(edited to add that the number of cache finders makes no difference to this ratio)

I think you misunderstood. I was talking about only 1 terrain caches. I was just saying that when someone goes to hide a cache they should consider what is out there. If there are already 500 LPCs and 500 guardrail caches in his area perhaps he could hide another easy type, that he likes so there are not so many of the same exact cache. So I'm not suggesting that people hide things they don't enjoy. I suggesting that they hide things they enjoy and that there is a shortage of. I know that I go through this though process whenever I place a cache. Edited December 3, 2007 by TrailGators

[+tozainamboku]

You have never agreed with me on this but if Cacher A hides 400 easy caches in the same anount of time that Cacher Z hides 30 cool cammo caches then the balance is tipped towards what Cacher A likes and not on what the community would actually prefer. I agree that a lot of people will find any cache. But I don't agree that many of these same people would not appreciate a cool hide. What makes micros boring for many is a lack of thought or creativity that produces a ton of micros that are hidden in the exact same way. It's the old "Been There Done That." thing. Nobody is forcing people to hide better micros. It is just something being brought up for people to consider.

I'm not sure why you project your feelings or even those of your friends that you talk to at events on the whole community. There is a large group of cachers out there that prefer easy caches. They get very frustrated with DNFs (whether micros or regular sized) and prefer the opportunity to go find 400 easy caches rather than 30 hides where they have to figure out some clever camo they never saw before. Sure there are many people people who prefer something challenging. Some even like looking for needle-in-the-haystack micros. Some find long hikes with a ammo can under a pile of rocks challenging, others like to work on their stealth techniques to find caches hidden in a high muggle area. You may not like it that there are more "boring" caches than you prefer. These caches are being hidden because some people like them.

 

Clearly there are some people who find the typical urban micro boring. Perhaps they have seen so many that were once clever that now they seem boring. Perhaps they like going through the swag in full size caches to see if there are any surprises in there. Maybe they don't like the locations that many urban micros are hidden in. Some people can just avoid micros. Others who don't want to avoid all micros need to do a little more work to filter caches. You may need to read other people's logs or hope that someone has put together a bookmark list of "non-boring" micros. Perhaps you may know which hiders are known for clever hides and who has been just leaving the same LPC hide over and over. Of course you could also realize that not every cache is above average. Lower your expectations when you are hunting urban micros and hold your nose on some stinkers so you can be pleasantly surprised by the "good" ones you find.

[+Miragee]

You find them to be boring. That's a valid feeling, but you have to understand that other people enjoy them. Therefore, the best solution is not to alter the caches that other people enjoy hiding and finding, but to alter how you decide which caches to hunt. That way, everybody stays happy.

Recently I did some urban caching, not something I do very frequently. However, I really enjoyed finding the three caches I found that day . . . especially after reading this Past Log for one Altoids tin hidden on one of those green boxes behind a mini-mall.

 

Enjoyment is all about attitude.

 

Another log for that same cache said this:

November 2 by cacher (903 found)

Nice hide! Am caching with a walker, so this is one of the hides along I-8 and Hwy 80, I could go for. TFTC!

[+sbell111]

You find them to be boring. That's a valid feeling, but you have to understand that other people enjoy them. Therefore, the best solution is not to alter the caches that other people enjoy hiding and finding, but to alter how you decide which caches to hunt. That way, everybody stays happy.

Sbell, your theory only works IF everyone hides equal amounts of caches. That way there is an equal and perfectly balanced mix of what everyone in the community likes. However, when you have people that hide 400+ boring caches it throws off the balance. It is not reasonable to expect someone else to counter that by hiding 400+ clever caches. The clever caches take a lot of time to prepare and hide. So if people are aware of the balance then maybe they can hide something that they also enjoy that would shift things back in balance. That was all I was saying.

Actually, I believe that you have it completely backwards.

 

Imagine that there are two cachers in a specific area. Both cachers only play the game on Saturdays, but save the entire day for the game. One cacher likes to challenge himself by hiking at least ten miles to the cache. The other cacher likes to challenge himself to find more caches than he did the prior Saturday.

 

In this local area, an equal number of cachers are hidden. Each month, 5 hiking caches are hidden and five easy peasy caches are hidden.

 

In this scenario, the hiker will never run out of caches and the numbers guy will never have enough caches. Obviously, you would need to have a higher percentage of easy peasy caches to keep these two cachers satisfied.

 

(edited to add that the number of cache finders makes no difference to this ratio)

I think you misunderstood. I was talking about only 1 terrain caches.

It makes no difference if the first cacher likes high terrain caches or high difficulty ones. The theory still holds.

I was just saying that when someone goes to hide a cache they should consider what is out there. If there are already 500 LPCs and 500 guardrail caches in his area perhaps he could hide another easy type, that he likes so there are not so many of the same exact cache. So I'm not suggesting that people hide things they don't enjoy. I suggesting that they hide things they enjoy and that there is a shortage of. I know that I go through this though process.

I'm just saying that I disagree. Each cacher should have the freedom to hide or find whatever cache that he wants. If everyone hides what they would like to find, there would be no shortage of anything. There is no need to worry about what some other hypothetical cacher would like to find or how your cache would affect some ratios that some other cacher may or may not keep track of.

 

This is just a silly game, after all. Hide what you like. Search for what you like.

[+TrailGators]

You have never agreed with me on this but if Cacher A hides 400 easy caches in the same anount of time that Cacher Z hides 30 cool cammo caches then the balance is tipped towards what Cacher A likes and not on what the community would actually prefer. I agree that a lot of people will find any cache. But I don't agree that many of these same people would not appreciate a cool hide. What makes micros boring for many is a lack of thought or creativity that produces a ton of micros that are hidden in the exact same way. It's the old "Been There Done That." thing. Nobody is forcing people to hide better micros. It is just something being brought up for people to consider.

I'm not sure why you project your feelings or even those of your friends that you talk to at events on the whole community. There is a large group of cachers out there that prefer easy caches.

You are also misunderstanding what I am saying. Read this post.

[+tozainamboku]

You have never agreed with me on this but if Cacher A hides 400 easy caches in the same anount of time that Cacher Z hides 30 cool cammo caches then the balance is tipped towards what Cacher A likes and not on what the community would actually prefer. I agree that a lot of people will find any cache. But I don't agree that many of these same people would not appreciate a cool hide. What makes micros boring for many is a lack of thought or creativity that produces a ton of micros that are hidden in the exact same way. It's the old "Been There Done That." thing. Nobody is forcing people to hide better micros. It is just something being brought up for people to consider.

I'm not sure why you project your feelings or even those of your friends that you talk to at events on the whole community. There is a large group of cachers out there that prefer easy caches.

You are also misunderstanding what I am saying. Read this post.

Like you I prefer seeing a mix of caches. That is why I like finding micros on my hikes. I get tired of finding ammo cans in bushes and decon containers under rocks. Give me a waterproof match container hanging in a tree or even a magnetic hide-a-key on some old fence post or abandoned mining equipment.

 

Lets say I'm going urban caching. After finding 5 or six newsrack hide, my hands are dirty. My clothes are dirty from laying down on the sidewalk. I'm getting pretty disgusted by the lack of creativity. I will do one of two things at this point. Either I stop geocaching for the day or I become more selective. If the next cache takes me to a newsrack, I just keep going to the next hide. Maybe I'll look for hides in parks instead on on street corners or mini-malls. Fortunately, while there may be someone who has hidden 400 "boring" hides there are also far more interesting and creative hides than ever before. Perhaps these are a smaller percentage of all the caches (though I'm not convinced) but with a little effort I can still go out and see enough good caches to make my day worthwhile. One thing I can say it that with 3859 finds, there are few hides that are entirely unique. Just because someone hid a cache in a lamppost or a newsrack doesn't make iit lame or even boring. Was this a interesting street (maybe a unique store or a humorous street name)? Was it a challenge to park? How did I deal with muggles? I try to focus on the experience I'm having rather than the specifics of the cache. That way every lamppost or newsrack can be a unique experience.

Edited December 3, 2007 by tozainamboku

[+meralgia]

When I'm placing, I'm not so concerned about whether Cacher A wants to find easy ones and Cacher Z wants to find hard ones. I'm Hider "K", and it's my choice. I try and cammo the micros creatively to keep it interesting, but sometimes you just don't have that freedom, especially in the urban parks. One of the micros I've placed is rated at a 3.5 difficulty, and I get the best logs from the folks who enjoyed a challenge (some have gone back twice to "beat" it). Other micros have been hidden as a 1.5 difficulty for the folks who are running errands in "good clothes" after work and just want to get their smiley fix for the day. If you think my micro is boring, go ahead and tell me OFF-LOG. Maybe I'll be able to find a better place to place it based on your input.

Edited December 3, 2007 by meralgia

[+TrailGators]

When I'm placing, I'm not so concerned about whether Cacher A wants to find easy ones and Cacher Z wants to find hard ones. I'm Hider "K", and it's my choice. I try and cammo the micros creatively to keep it interesting, but sometimes you just don't have that freedom, especially in the urban parks. One of the micros I've placed is rated at a 3.5 difficulty, and I get the best logs from the folks who enjoyed a challenge (some have gone back twice to "beat" it). Other micros have been hidden as a 1.5 difficulty for the folks who are running errands in "good clothes" after work and just want to get their smiley fix for the day. If you think my micro is boring, go ahead and tell me OFF-LOG. Maybe I'll be able to find a better place to place it based on your input.

Actually you are doing exactly what I was saying. You are Cacher "K" and you like cache types A-J. You notice that your area already has a ton of A's, so you decide to hide a "G" to mix things up. Mix is a very important ingredient that moves caches further away from being perceived as boring. That was my point. If you understand the factors that can make easy caches more fun, then more people will enjoy your caches. By the way, I would never rip someone in my cache log. I would just ignore the cache.

[+meralgia]

Mix is a very important ingredient that moves caches further away from being perceived as boring.

Agreed!!

 

I was afraid that I would be making a lot of boring "smalls" when I invested over $80 in a 10' length of black PVC pipe, tops, bottoms, screw caps, a pair of desert cammo pants, and some beanie babies. The supplies made about 26 caches, and I sighed at the pile of seeminly-xeroxed cache containers. I looked at pile of micros (black-taped film canisters, pill bottles, etc) and sighed again. Boring.

 

Both piles of caches were cammoed well and put out sparingly (NONE went under lampost skirts). They were spread across a wide area and in a variety of spots (in holes, amongst pine needles, at the top of a tree, etc.) so neither pile would be boring. Thankfully the smalls hold a travel bug and some small swag so folks can still trade.

 

I got a log the other day, "You'll want to get into the "Mind of Meralgia"--look for familiar meralgia materials" to find this cache (inferring that if you've done a few meralgia caches, you might know what you're looking for). Over the Winter, I'll be able to cammo some of the cache containers in a more interesting way, but so far folks haven't complained.

Edited December 3, 2007 by meralgia

[Mushtang]

Or, if you find micros boring, you can just filter them out and never be bothered with them. Those that enjoy them will continue to find them.

[+TrailGators]

Mix is a very important ingredient that moves caches further away from being perceived as boring.

Agreed!!

 

I was afraid that I would be making a lot of boring "smalls" when I invested over $80 in a 10' length of black PVC pipe, tops, bottoms, screw caps, a pair of desert cammo pants, and some beanie babies. The supplies made about 26 caches, and I sighed at the pile of seeminly-xeroxed cache containers. I looked at pile of micros (black-taped film canisters, pill bottles, etc) and sighed again. Boring.

 

Both piles of caches were cammoed well and put out sparingly (NONE went under lampost skirts). They were spread across a wide area and in a variety of spots (in holes, amongst pine needles, at the top of a tree, etc.) so neither pile would be boring. Thankfully the smalls hold a travel bug and some small swag so folks can still trade.

 

I got a log the other day about needing to get into the "mind of meralgia" to find this cache (inferring that if you've done a few meralgia caches, you might know what you're looking for). Over the Winter, I'll be able to cammo some of the cache containers in a more interesting way, but so far folks haven't complained.

Like you also said you also get the reward of some very appreciative logs when you do that. Micros can be fun. I've noticed that the run-of-the-mill ones get a lot more short logs. Most hiders enjoy getting longer appreciative logs. So the log length is a good indicator if you've done something special as well.

[+meralgia]

In my profile, I state (regarding micros), "You may pleased to know that the caches I've placed are NOT on lamp posts or skirt lifters, electrical boxes, telephone poles or guard rails.

 

You may, however, be displeased to know that they tend to be on, around, or near playgrounds. I've placed them mainly because folks with kids (like me) enjoy not having to search a great distance away from them when they're playing. I have been careful to mention that it's in a playground so you don't waste your time for nothing."

 

(I began a playground cache thread once, so please go here if you want to add your rant about playground caching.)

Edited December 3, 2007 by meralgia

[+TrailGators]

In my profile, I state (regarding micros), "You may pleased to know that the caches I've placed are NOT on lamp posts or skirt lifters, electrical boxes, telephone poles or guard rails.

 

You may, however, be displeased to know that they tend to be on, around, or near playgrounds. I've placed them mainly because folks with kids (like me) enjoy not having to search a great distance away from them when they're playing. I have been careful to mention that it's in a playground so you don't waste your time for nothing."

 

(I've been involved in a playground cache thread once, so please go <A HREF="http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=175984&hl=playground#">here</A> if you'd like to rant about it.)

I don't think playground micros are boring. What could be more exciting than getting beaten up with umbrellas by a bunch of protective mothers?!

[+Ambrosia]

Don't think that it's nice to make terrain 1 / difficulty 3 or something hides for handicapped people. That may be the case for a lot, but not all. And besides, not all people need puzzles or difficult hides.

There gazillions of 1/1s. So if someone wanted to make a 3/1, then that is not nice?

That's not what I said. I was saying that people shouldn't automatically assume that if handicapped people have to find easy caches, then they would appreciate it if you made the caches difficult some other way, like making a puzzle or a tricky hide, because their brains are fine. This is not always the case, and so I was just mentioning that.

Nor did I say that it was always the case. So is there some action that should or should not be taken based on what you said? Sorry Ambrosia, but I'm not following the point of this.

I'm was just pointing it out to make sure that people were aware of it and didn't think in absolutes. It was an observation, not necessarily a request for action.

I don't think anyone was being absolute. I was suggesting that there should be all types of difficulties for all types of people. Right now it seems like ~90% of all micros are easy. Someone can hide 10 easy micros in the time that someone else can hide one creative micro (more difficult). So the balance is off. So IMHO, we could use some more difficult hides for the handicapped people and others that enjoy those types.

[+TrailGators]

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I am a newbie, and I'm sure this topic probably has been debated ad-nauseum before. I just wanted to throw in my $0.02. I am donning my Nomex flame retardant suit now.

 

As stated, I am a newbie, without a doubt. I've only been caching for 3 weeks and have a whopping total of 7 finds! I have done a micro or two, and frankly find them pretty boring. Just unrolling a piece of paper and signing it doesn't really feel like I'm doing much. I like finding a nice container in a secluded spot, full of interesting trade items, and the anticipation of what is going to be inside when I pop the lid. I really get a kick and even a good belly laugh out of some of the stuff I find in these, and try to be fun and creative about what I leave as well.

 

If the original infamous bucket (and those that followed) had nothing but a log to sign, do you think this sport would have taken off like it has?

to avoid all that has been said in the interim, I'll simply respond to this original question. My take is that Micros are boring because most finders have not been creative enough to add trade items. I have trade items that I like to leave in micro Caches, and can fit several into a film can, thus I like to find them and leave my items. you may find them more enjoyable if you can figure out something that you like to leave in them. That's how I enjoy most micros that I find. Now the ones that are too small for even a postage stamp...thats still a struggle. I'm wotking on some Nano Raffle Tickets.

[+trainlove]

I'll throw another bone into this conversation.

 

I find most 'Traditional' caches boring, and only do those that are part of some other mission of mine. One of these days I'll have done 1700 caches, exactly half of them being 'Traditional', but only if I only do about 350 'Other Than Traditionals' between now and then.

[+joranda]

I find micros boribg but that's what most of the caches are anyways so what can you do!