Cheaters

September 4, 2007

So The Tiffany's Slaves team were at the GONE event and went to do some cache maintenance. After getting the chore done, we went to get a couple of nearby caches. When we had the first of them in hand, two more cachers showed up, one of whom we knew. I will call them Cacher X and Cacher Y. As we chatted a bit, they mentioned having been with a third person who was now waiting for them elsewhere. That person will be cacher Z.

So we then went to do the other nearby cache (neither X nor Y had the info) and made the find. Then, we headed back together, X and Y to get our cache that we had just done maintenance on and Tiffany's Slaves to head back to the event. X and Y dropped off from us about 500 or so ft from the cache.

The next day, I was reviewing finds on our cache and noticed one from someone who mentioned having done the cache with X and Y and having teamed with them for the event. I thought to myself that gee, we must have missed this person in the few minutes between when we left X and Y and when they reached the cache but hey, maybe they came along a few minutes later.

BUT... something in the log did not add up and I wondered if we were being scammed so I went back and looked in the logs for the two caches that we did with X and Y. Sure enough... Cacher Z had logged them as having done them with X and Y. LOL.. there were only TWO of them.

So.. should I invalidate the log on OUR cache? We aren't really sure about that one as we were not there when X and Y signed. But the other two caches... the logs are BOGUS! Do we do something?

24.7k · September 4, 2007

... I went back and looked in the logs for the two caches that we did with X and Y. Sure enough... Cacher Z had logged them as having done them with X and Y. LOL.. there were only TWO of them....

I'm having a hard time following your X Y & Z thing.

So you saw X & Y, No Z. Z was nearby though waiting for X &Y (as in they were out on a day of caching).

Then when you saw Z logged it you check the log and Z's log was there?

This does not sound like a problem. Just odd.

September 4, 2007

The OTHER TWO caches that we did with X and Y were also logged by Z and in the logs, he mentioned having been there with them.

He was not there with them!

... I went back and looked in the logs for the two caches that we did with X and Y. Sure enough... Cacher Z had logged them as having done them with X and Y. LOL.. there were only TWO of them....

I'm having a hard time following your X Y & Z thing.

So you saw X & Y, No Z. Z was nearby though waiting for X &Y (as in they were out on a day of caching).

Then when you saw Z logged it you check the log and Z's log was there?

This does not sound like a problem. Just odd.

3.3k · September 4, 2007

So The Tiffany's Slaves team were at the GONE event and went to do some cache maintenance. After getting the chore done, we went to get a couple of nearby caches. When we had the first of them in hand, two more cachers showed up, one of whom we knew. I will call them Cacher X and Cacher Y. As we chatted a bit, they mentioned having been with a third person who was now waiting for them elsewhere. That person will be cacher Z.

So we then went to do the other nearby cache (neither X nor Y had the info) and made the find. Then, we headed back together, X and Y to get our cache that we had just done maintenance on and Tiffany's Slaves to head back to the event. X and Y dropped off from us about 500 or so ft from the cache.

The next day, I was reviewing finds on our cache and noticed one from someone who mentioned having done the cache with X and Y and having teamed with them for the event. I thought to myself that gee, we must have missed this person in the few minutes between when we left X and Y and when they reached the cache but hey, maybe they came along a few minutes later.

BUT... something in the log did not add up and I wondered if we were being scammed so I went back and looked in the logs for the two caches that we did with X and Y. Sure enough... Cacher Z had logged them as having done them with X and Y. LOL.. there were only TWO of them.

So.. should I invalidate the log on OUR cache? We aren't really sure about that one as we were not there when X and Y signed. But the other two caches... the logs are BOGUS! Do we do something?

Cache maintenance as owners is simple. Visit your cache that "Z" visited, no name in the logbook, no find. Immediate deletion. If you find that "Z' did not indeed visit your cache, a quick note to the owners of the other (2) questionable caches could be warranted. If the finder has a valid explanation, you'll hear from them quickly when they see the "log delete" notice

14.3k · September 4, 2007

So The Tiffany's Slaves team were at the GONE event and went to do some cache maintenance. After getting the chore done, we went to get a couple of nearby caches. When we had the first of them in hand, two more cachers showed up, one of whom we knew. I will call them Cacher X and Cacher Y. As we chatted a bit, they mentioned having been with a third person who was now waiting for them elsewhere. That person will be cacher Z.

So we then went to do the other nearby cache (neither X nor Y had the info) and made the find. Then, we headed back together, X and Y to get our cache that we had just done maintenance on and Tiffany's Slaves to head back to the event. X and Y dropped off from us about 500 or so ft from the cache.

The next day, I was reviewing finds on our cache and noticed one from someone who mentioned having done the cache with X and Y and having teamed with them for the event. I thought to myself that gee, we must have missed this person in the few minutes between when we left X and Y and when they reached the cache but hey, maybe they came along a few minutes later.

BUT... something in the log did not add up and I wondered if we were being scammed so I went back and looked in the logs for the two caches that we did with X and Y. Sure enough... Cacher Z had logged them as having done them with X and Y. LOL.. there were only TWO of them.

So.. should I invalidate the log on OUR cache? We aren't really sure about that one as we were not there when X and Y signed. But the other two caches... the logs are BOGUS! Do we do something?

Cache maintenance as owners is simple. Visit your cache that "Z" visited, no name in the logbook, no find. Immediate deletion. If you find that "Z' did not indeed visit your cache, a quick note to the owners of the other (2) questionable caches could be warranted. If the finder has a valid explanation, you'll hear from them quickly when they see the "log delete" notice

This is a good way to do it. Z may have found it later. Plus Z may have found a bunch of caches that day with X and Y and just copied and pasted the same log for all his/her caches. I guess Z is innocent until proven guilty....

September 4, 2007

If you did caches with X,and Y, and Z says he did the same caches with X,and Y, he could have....

1..come back with X,and Y later.

2...been invisible,and you did not see him with X,and Y...

3..been doing what you think. CHEATING!

September 4, 2007

So The Tiffany's Slaves team were at the GONE event and went to do some cache maintenance. After getting the chore done, we went to get a couple of nearby caches. When we had the first of them in hand, two more cachers showed up, one of whom we knew. I will call them Cacher X and Cacher Y. As we chatted a bit, they mentioned having been with a third person who was now waiting for them elsewhere. That person will be cacher Z.

So we then went to do the other nearby cache (neither X nor Y had the info) and made the find. Then, we headed back together, X and Y to get our cache that we had just done maintenance on and Tiffany's Slaves to head back to the event. X and Y dropped off from us about 500 or so ft from the cache.

The next day, I was reviewing finds on our cache and noticed one from someone who mentioned having done the cache with X and Y and having teamed with them for the event. I thought to myself that gee, we must have missed this person in the few minutes between when we left X and Y and when they reached the cache but hey, maybe they came along a few minutes later.

BUT... something in the log did not add up and I wondered if we were being scammed so I went back and looked in the logs for the two caches that we did with X and Y. Sure enough... Cacher Z had logged them as having done them with X and Y. LOL.. there were only TWO of them.

So.. should I invalidate the log on OUR cache? We aren't really sure about that one as we were not there when X and Y signed. But the other two caches... the logs are BOGUS! Do we do something?

Cache maintenance as owners is simple. Visit your cache that "Z" visited, no name in the logbook, no find. Immediate deletion. If you find that "Z' did not indeed visit your cache, a quick note to the owners of the other (2) questionable caches could be warranted. If the finder has a valid explanation, you'll hear from them quickly when they see the "log delete" notice

This is a good way to do it. Z may have found it later. Plus Z may have found a bunch of caches that day with X and Y and just copied and pasted the same log for all his/her caches. I guess Z is innocent until proven guilty....

We can't get back there for a few weeks so we'll have to see about that. In order to not be too identifiable, I left out a couple of things that were said. I can tell you this.. Cacher Z did NOT find the other two caches. One of the other cachers was his "caching buddy" for the weekend and I do not know if that person might have logged for him. this was pretty rough terrain and I am pretty sure that they did not go back to it again as the day was drawing to an end.

1.4k · September 4, 2007

I've seen this a few times, funny and sad. Could have been part of a "team" could have signed their name for them, could have told a white lie, want's to find a few without finding them, could have been there in "spirit", logged the wrong cache but was with them on the "others" - whatever

Kinda gets under your skin, excuses ....... everyone has one

3.3k · September 4, 2007

So The Tiffany's Slaves team were at the GONE event and went to do some cache maintenance. After getting the chore done, we went to get a couple of nearby caches. When we had the first of them in hand, two more cachers showed up, one of whom we knew. I will call them Cacher X and Cacher Y. As we chatted a bit, they mentioned having been with a third person who was now waiting for them elsewhere. That person will be cacher Z.

So we then went to do the other nearby cache (neither X nor Y had the info) and made the find. Then, we headed back together, X and Y to get our cache that we had just done maintenance on and Tiffany's Slaves to head back to the event. X and Y dropped off from us about 500 or so ft from the cache.

The next day, I was reviewing finds on our cache and noticed one from someone who mentioned having done the cache with X and Y and having teamed with them for the event. I thought to myself that gee, we must have missed this person in the few minutes between when we left X and Y and when they reached the cache but hey, maybe they came along a few minutes later.

BUT... something in the log did not add up and I wondered if we were being scammed so I went back and looked in the logs for the two caches that we did with X and Y. Sure enough... Cacher Z had logged them as having done them with X and Y. LOL.. there were only TWO of them.

So.. should I invalidate the log on OUR cache? We aren't really sure about that one as we were not there when X and Y signed. But the other two caches... the logs are BOGUS! Do we do something?

Cache maintenance as owners is simple. Visit your cache that "Z" visited, no name in the logbook, no find. Immediate deletion. If you find that "Z' did not indeed visit your cache, a quick note to the owners of the other (2) questionable caches could be warranted. If the finder has a valid explanation, you'll hear from them quickly when they see the "log delete" notice

This is a good way to do it. Z may have found it later. Plus Z may have found a bunch of caches that day with X and Y and just copied and pasted the same log for all his/her caches. I guess Z is innocent until proven guilty....

We can't get back there for a few weeks so we'll have to see about that. In order to not be too identifiable, I left out a couple of things that were said. I can tell you this.. Cacher Z did NOT find the other two caches. One of the other cachers was his "caching buddy" for the weekend and I do not know if that person might have logged for him. this was pretty rough terrain and I am pretty sure that they did not go back to it again as the day was drawing to an end.

In quoting the guidelines:

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

Go back in two weeks, and check your cache. Weird things happen, and maybe "Z" just messed up. If you're sure "Z' did not log the other two, send a note to the other two cache owners. I would be careful to check each log though, for some sort of signature. Maybe one person has two profiles. I know a cacher in Florida that logs 3 accounts and actually logs finds on some caches with each account. Hey, play how you want, I say

14.3k · September 4, 2007

So The Tiffany's Slaves team were at the GONE event and went to do some cache maintenance. After getting the chore done, we went to get a couple of nearby caches. When we had the first of them in hand, two more cachers showed up, one of whom we knew. I will call them Cacher X and Cacher Y. As we chatted a bit, they mentioned having been with a third person who was now waiting for them elsewhere. That person will be cacher Z.

So we then went to do the other nearby cache (neither X nor Y had the info) and made the find. Then, we headed back together, X and Y to get our cache that we had just done maintenance on and Tiffany's Slaves to head back to the event. X and Y dropped off from us about 500 or so ft from the cache.

The next day, I was reviewing finds on our cache and noticed one from someone who mentioned having done the cache with X and Y and having teamed with them for the event. I thought to myself that gee, we must have missed this person in the few minutes between when we left X and Y and when they reached the cache but hey, maybe they came along a few minutes later.

BUT... something in the log did not add up and I wondered if we were being scammed so I went back and looked in the logs for the two caches that we did with X and Y. Sure enough... Cacher Z had logged them as having done them with X and Y. LOL.. there were only TWO of them.

So.. should I invalidate the log on OUR cache? We aren't really sure about that one as we were not there when X and Y signed. But the other two caches... the logs are BOGUS! Do we do something?

Cache maintenance as owners is simple. Visit your cache that "Z" visited, no name in the logbook, no find. Immediate deletion. If you find that "Z' did not indeed visit your cache, a quick note to the owners of the other (2) questionable caches could be warranted. If the finder has a valid explanation, you'll hear from them quickly when they see the "log delete" notice

This is a good way to do it. Z may have found it later. Plus Z may have found a bunch of caches that day with X and Y and just copied and pasted the same log for all his/her caches. I guess Z is innocent until proven guilty....

We can't get back there for a few weeks so we'll have to see about that. In order to not be too identifiable, I left out a couple of things that were said. I can tell you this.. Cacher Z did NOT find the other two caches. One of the other cachers was his "caching buddy" for the weekend and I do not know if that person might have logged for him. this was pretty rough terrain and I am pretty sure that they did not go back to it again as the day was drawing to an end.

The last time I emailed someone about logging my cache when he didn't find it, the guy went back and "found" my cache a fews days later. It was then reported missing by the very next finder (a friend of mine who verified the location with me) within a week. So my point is that people that will cheat will also steal. Now I need to buy a new ammo box/swag and drive down to the Laguna mountains to replace the cache. So now I ask myself: Was all that worth telling a cheater that he cheated? Edited September 4, 2007 by TrailGators

September 4, 2007

Hmm, I would verify that Z was definetely not there before doing anything. I was at the GONE event! I think I did one of your caches (frog pond I think...). Anyway, I really enjoyed it!!! In fact, it may have been my favorite at the event!!!

September 4, 2007

Oh, and you also have to keep in mind that maybe Z has the cache confused with another cache. Remember, there were lots of caches to do at the GONE event, perhaps Z was thinking of the wrong cache when she wrote her found log.

14.3k · September 4, 2007

Oh, and you also have to keep in mind that maybe Z has the cache confused with another cache. Remember, there were lots of caches to do at the GONE event, perhaps Z was thinking of the wrong cache when she wrote her found log.

I agree that we should give people the benefit of the doubt. Innocent until proven guilty....

10.1k · September 5, 2007

Some people march to different drummers. They think that their concept of geocaching is the best way. This includes people who log drive-by caches (even though the coords were wrong, and the cache was actully twenty miles north.) Cacher Z seems to have been somewhere within a few miles of your cache... You may accept the log (many cache owners will). You may delete it (cache owner's prerogative.) You may check the log on your next maintenance visit. You have enough evidence to delete the log, if you so choose. (I probably would.) But, that's my interpretation of the guidelines: Sign the log, get a smiley. Many will disagree. Your prerogative.

I hope you found a good dog sitter for Tiffany! She must have been upset at missing the action.

September 5, 2007

Well, well, this is something as a newbie to geocaching that I have been curious about. First, I found the X,Y,Z description fairly difficult to follow but I think I have the idea. Hmmm. My gut reaction is that Z just logged the find b/c they were all working as a team. But, my cynical side says Z cheated. Hard to say. Remember that geocachers are made up of a cross section of the public and we know what that means. This team concept is what puzzles me. Example: This last weekend my husband, son, and I were geocaching in MN. We work as a team. We were looking for a cache and a couple showed up and they were geocaching too. The wife of the other team immediately found the cache in the middle of our search. I said "hey, now what do we do since we were looking and didn't find it (yet) and you did find it?" The wife said " mark it as a find, we were all a team." I did but it bothers me. It doesn't seem right to me. I think we should have waited for them to leave and then gone back to searching? OR, are we all taking this accumulation of "smiley face finds" just a little too seriously?

September 5, 2007

post deleted

Edited September 5, 2007 by weathernowcast

September 5, 2007

Packanack said it better

Edited September 5, 2007 by weathernowcast

1.7k · September 5, 2007

The simple First and universal rule of Geocaching (and it seems inviolate for many)is sign the log personally and claim the find. If you stick with that you will not have any issue, regardless of your caching alone, with a friend or with a group.

The horseshoes and hand grenade rule does not apply to Geocaching.

The second simple and universal rule of Geocaching is enjoy your game, have fun.

The Third simple and universal rule of Geocaching is avoid becoming a Geoscold, much in the same way you avoid Billy Mays TV commercials. Turn it down or turn it off.

I hope there are no more questions, cause I don't have anymore answers.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Packanack

10.2k · September 5, 2007

I really can't follow the whole X, Y and Z thing. But the NEPAG sign in front of the church is really cool.

1.2k · September 5, 2007

I always laugh when I hear about cheating geocachers. How the heck do you cheat at hiking in the woods and finding tupperware? :laughing:

Regarding TrailGators case in point, sometimes it's really not worth getting into it with someone that's just looking to pad their numbers. Since we you know better about cacher Z's caching habits, you can wait until their smilie count reached 1001 before you post a Congrats on 1000 announcement in the NE Forums.

Packanack said it better

Actually, I'm going to improve on Packanack's order

The simple First and universal rule of Geocaching is enjoy your game, have fun!

The second simple and universal rule of Geocaching is avoid becoming a Geoscold.

The Third simple and universal rule of Geocaching is retrieve the cache, sign the log personally and log on-line.

8.1k · September 5, 2007

I always laugh when I hear about cheating geocachers. How the heck do you cheat at hiking in the woods and finding tupperware?

Congrats on your 1439 find Nik!

1.2k · September 6, 2007

I always laugh when I hear about cheating geocachers. How the heck do you cheat at hiking in the woods and finding tupperware?

Congrats on your 1439 find Nik!

egg-zack-ly!

38.2k · September 6, 2007

Since we you know better about cacher Z's caching habits, you can wait until their smilie count reached 1001 before you post a Congrats on 1000 announcement in the NE Forums

Or wait until he hits 1,000, receives the congratulations thread here, then you delete all his bogus finds and he's back down to 996

Cheaters

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