Coin design copyright question.

[+tsunrisebey]

For a NON-Trackable, personal coin, coins have been paid for.

 

The person I'm working with was unable to answer right now as her boss is out of town. Hopefully someone here can help me.

 

I paid a designer to put my coin idea to graphic form. I than gave the completed design to a coin company to work on my behalf with a minting company. I received the mint artwork back today and there are only a few changes that I requested. I noticed on the mint artwork that there was a copyright of the coin company I am working with, on the artwork. Did I just loose my design to a coin company or is this just standard practice?

 

I don't plan on it but what if I want to make more coins in this design, am I now required to go through that coin company again or can I go directly to the mint? I was just a little concerned about this but obviously nothing i can do about it now.

 

Concrete answers from those in the know would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

Just to clarify, the lady I'm working with has been very nice and prompt! No complaints here.

 

tsun

Edited April 11, 2007 by tsunrisebey

[+tsunrisebey]

typed it again.

[+AtwellFamily]

The design is yours. You brought it to them, you own the idea. Even if you had the idea and they produced the art you still should own it. Again your idea.

 

Going direct later may get tricking seeing as the mint is working with them not you. They would need to let the mint know you own the rights and can have it reproduced. Not sure they would do that?

 

Just like the tags. You own the art and the rights to the molds but the mint should not let you do anything with them unless I give permission. The mint relationship is with me not you, they don't know you own the rights, they think I do.

 

99% sure

[+BRoKeN W]

Well I would think that since someone else put YOUR design into graphic form then you should be able to use that design anywhere. I figure that since the coin company just takes the final artwork from what you submitted, then they shouldn't have a right to copyright it. What were the changed you asked to be made? Were they pretty far off from the original design or did the mint artist miss a few details?

[+tsunrisebey]

The design is yours. You brought it to them, you own the idea. Even if you had the idea and they produced the art you still should own it. Again your idea.

 

Going direct later may get tricking seeing as the mint is working with them not you. They would need to let the mint know you own the rights and can have it reproduced. Not sure they would do that?

 

Just like the tags. You own the art and the rights to the molds but the mint should not let you do anything with them unless I give permission. The mint relationship is with me not you, they don't know you own the rights, they think I do.

 

99% sure

 

This is what I thought but I just wasn't sure. Thank you.

 

BW....Graphics aren't changing much. I'm not trying to say the company is taking the copyright....lol. I was just curious/concerned when I saw that on the artwork the mint returned. It may just be standard practice because the mint is working with them directly.

 

tsun

[+BRoKeN W]

 

This is what I thought but I just wasn't sure. Thank you.

 

BW....Graphics aren't changing much. I'm not trying to say the company is taking the copyright....lol. I was just curious/concerned when I saw that on the artwork the mint returned. It may just be standard practice because the mint is working with them directly.

 

tsun

 

Probably is standard practice, but I'd probably concerned too. Just took a look at our artwork the mint sent and I don't see any copyright.. hmmm...

[+Renegade Knight]

Our latest copyright laws cloud the waters.

 

You went to a designer to get your design. They own the copyright on their work. Unless your contract says you do. What does your contract say?

Edited April 11, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+tsunrisebey]

Our latest copyright laws cloud the waters.

 

You went to a designer to get your design. They own the copyright on their work. Unless your contract says you do. What does your contract say?

 

I don't have a contract. I gave the coin company my design (previously done by a graphic artist) to give to the mint.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

It's usually just a safety procedure for your benefit. I add copyright info to all my design work usually, but I put the copyright as myself and whoever actually owns the design. It is strictly for the benefit of the person I'm designing for though. If the design is changed later, they can not claim that it is original artwork by me. If someone else is designing something nearly identical to us (myself and my client) and we have it date marked first, there is just no disputing who established their name/design down the trail.

[+nielsenc]

If a coin company put a copyright on my design, I would kindly ask they take it off.

Edited April 11, 2007 by nielsenc

[CinemaBoxers]

The design is yours. You brought it to them, you own the idea. Even if you had the idea and they produced the art you still should own it. Again your idea.

 

Steph,

 

This is absolutely correct -

Copyright law states that once an idea is conceived, that idea becomes intellectual property and you are the copyright owner.

 

Jim

[+tsunrisebey]

The design is yours. You brought it to them, you own the idea. Even if you had the idea and they produced the art you still should own it. Again your idea.

 

Steph,

 

This is absolutely correct -

Copyright law states that once an idea is conceived, that idea becomes intellectual property and you are the copyright owner.

 

Jim

 

Thanks Jim

 

Thanks to all who posted, think I'll just quit worrying about it for now until the boss returns.

 

tsun

[+Renegade Knight]

The design is yours. You brought it to them, you own the idea. Even if you had the idea and they produced the art you still should own it. Again your idea.

 

Steph,

 

This is absolutely correct -

Copyright law states that once an idea is conceived, that idea becomes intellectual property and you are the copyright owner.

 

Jim

Does that mean you own all deravative works?

 

For example. I bring my ugly sketch in to an artist. The artist takes that and my commenets and creates the art. The first deravative work and vastly different than my sketch but sill the same concept. Then the die artist makes a 3D die from the artist's work and so the mold becomes a deravative work.

 

Does the original copyright flow through? Also the die is normally made in China or Korea who don't have the same more restritive version of copyright law we have in the USA. How much does that matter?

[+Kealia]

I would do two things:

 

1) Read the terms on their site (they should be published)

 

2) Talk to them, not the people in here.

 

What you find in here are mostly opinions and "this happened to me" or "this is what I think".

In this case, you're best to hear it from them directly.

[+WWC-World's Worst Cacher]

Pretty much if you take a concept to an artist and have them create art based on that concept then take it to a mint, you own all the rights to that art until you specifically give it up in some fashion.

 

The more practical matter, and honestly kind of why i laugh when I see this issue being discussed, is who is really going to enforce the matter.

 

The cost of attorneys would eat you alive, relative the value of the art. The best protection comes from the geocaching community itself putting pressure on someone who might steal a design.

 

There is also the practical question of when a design is a derivative and when it is a new design. There have been a number of cases like that. My CHP coin v. at least one more that was very similar.

 

The reality is that it is unlikely that anyone would take the time or expense to try to enforce. The only exception I would see would be if you tried to do say a Disney character, I suspect the wrath of Disney would come down and eat you alive.

 

I guess I would though ask the minting company to take the copyright info off.

 

My thoughts

This is my opinion in the place to freely express opinions.

[+AtlantaGal]

It's your artwork, however, depending on what coin company you used, you may have issues trying to go direct to the mint for a reorder later.

 

Some of the coin companies retain the rights to your dies and that means you would have to go through them if you indeed wanted to reorder the coins. Then there are some coin companies who will let you have your dies. Best to check the policy of the specific coin company you're dealing with.

 

Just as an FYI, since you own the artwork, you CAN have identical dies remade with another coin company if you wanted to reorder the coins through another outlet.

[YemonYime]

I paid a designer to put my coin idea to graphic form. I than gave the completed design to a coin company to work on my behalf with a minting company. I received the mint artwork back today and there are only a few changes that I requested. I noticed on the mint artwork that there was a copyright of the coin company I am working with, on the artwork. Did I just loose my design to a coin company or is this just standard practice?

 

...

 

I don't plan on it but what if I want to make more coins in this design, am I now required to go through that coin company again or can I go directly to the mint?

 

You actually have two issues here...

 

First off, you paid a designer, so the "owner" of the final artwork is subject to the terms of your inferred contract with said designer. You'll simply have to check with them and come to an agreement if it's that important to you. You had a rough idea, and they refined it. Legally, that's a grey area concerning ownership and copyright. I will tell you though, that when someone pays me to do a design, that design is theirs to use as they wish unless something else is arranged. Personally, I don't split hairs like that.

 

Secondly, the minting company you employed does own the dies made to produce your coin. You didn't BUY those dies. You essentially "commissioned" their creation. On the bright side, that mint cannot use those dies without YOUR express permission regardless of who owns the artwork. You initiated the project, so you control the use of those dies. However, if you want to use those dies again, you WILL have to go through that same minting company unless you arrange something different with said mint. If you really didn't want to go through that company again, and assuming you do own the design...you could always resubmit your design to another company and pay the die fees all over again.

 

Bottom line: Know who you're dealing with, and deal with reputable people.

[+tsunrisebey]

Thank you to everyone who replied.

 

I have no complaints about the company I'm working with nor the mint.

 

Just the question about artwork. I am just unfamiliar with some of the process and was looking for some clarification.

 

tsun

[+Damenace]

 

Secondly, the minting company you employed does own the dies made to produce your coin. You didn't BUY those dies. You essentially "commissioned" their creation.

 

Could you please elaborate? Why do we pay a die fee if we don't own them? Should that cost not be rolled into one and then we would never see that fee?

 

Correct me if I am wrong but Nero paid for shipping and he received his? He didn't pay an additional fee plus shipping and then get them?

 

I was under the impression that when we commission a coin we pay a die fee to have someone create that die. If not used after three years they become property of that mint.

 

Could someone please clarify?

[+Eartha]

Closed at the OP's request.