To DNF, or NOT to DNF?...that is the question.

[X-isle]

There is a fellow near me that has well over 100 caches hidden. I have had little success with finding them. I know from the ones I HAVE found, that his coords are right on the money. So I know I am finding where they should be...yet I hate to leave a DNF in case it is my error or lack of skill. I have returned to one of his caches a couple of times, and on the third attempt, I found a well hidden mag box. I was elated that I had persevered and eventually triumphed. But, of 20 or so other attempts of cahes that he owns, I have actually only located 3. And I leave the area wondering if the cache is actually MIA or I am just stupid. I find it easier to just avoid his caches altogether rather than log a DNF and make him check a cache that is just well hidden, (removing all doubt ) . Most of his caches are micros, and could be easily overlooked. But I hate defeat...especially over and over. From his emal, he appears to be a real nice fellow and cache minded. So I would very much dislike inconveniencing him because of my own oversight. But on the other hand, he may like to be advised that one of his caches is apparently MIA. It's quite a quandary. What would you do? X

 

Hiding well is crucial...

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Been there. Odds are, if his caches are that hard he won't even check on them when you DNF. Don't worry about it. DNF has nothing to do with whether or not it's still there. It's about whether or not you tried to find it. That's all. Here's where you're probably going to do like I did and decide to persue certain people's caches less frequently than others. Sometimes I see the owner's name and decide to just save myself the hassle of a DNF and skip it. I don't feel like spending too much time trying to dig a nano-cache out of a sidewalk crack. I do what makes me happy, unless I'm getting paid for it.

[+scottpa100]

If you can't find it, then I'd log a DNF. A cache locally to where I live, the difficulty was reviewed after a number of people logged DNFs. It was always there, just very VERY well hidden. SO the cache owner upped the little stars a bit.

 

It also helps the owner know how popular a cache is, and also lets future visitors know that it can be a bit tricky.

[+Totem Clan]

DNF means Did Not Find. It does not mean that the cache is missing. I log all the caches that I look for and don't find. It's only fair to myself and the owner. Plus some DNF logs and more interesting than a lot of found logs I've seen.

 

Log it DNF.

 

Edit for... well keep reading. You'll find out.

Edited March 12, 2007 by Totem Clan

[+StarBrand]

You looked, you didn't find = log a DNF. I never worry about my caches unless I get 2-3 DNF in a row and then the history of the cache and difficuly also come into play. On the other hand I might run right out and check a diff 1 cache on the 1st DNF from an experienced cacher.

[+The Leprechauns]

There's no harm in logging a DNF. If you're self-conscious about making the owner go out on an unnecessary maintenance trip, you can add something to your log like "It's probably just my newbie inexperience..."

 

Heck, I am not a newbie but I still recognize when my own stupidity may be the cause of a DNF. My logs often say "I was having terrible luck today" or "I usually have trouble with X's caches because they are so well-hidden."

[Mushtang]

DNF means Did Not Find. It does mean that cache is missing.

I disagree (unless you meant to say otherwise). A DNF does not necessarily mean that the cache is missing.

 

In fact, one of the things that causes problems is when people look for a cache, can't find it, assume it's missing, and replace it with a temporary micro and log so they can still log a "find". Now there are TWO caches out there.

 

This hasn't happened to me, but it's been discussed enough here in the forums that I'm sure it's been done a few times. If it does happen to one of mine someday I'll definitely be deleting that find.

[+Totem Clan]

DNF means Did Not Find. It does mean that cache is missing.

I disagree (unless you meant to say otherwise). A DNF does not necessarily mean that the cache is missing.

 

In fact, one of the things that causes problems is when people look for a cache, can't find it, assume it's missing, and replace it with a temporary micro and log so they can still log a "find". Now there are TWO caches out there.

 

This hasn't happened to me, but it's been discussed enough here in the forums that I'm sure it's been done a few times. If it does happen to one of mine someday I'll definitely be deleting that find.

Oops typo DNF Does NOT mean that the cache is missing.

 

I'll fix that.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

DNF means Did Not Find. It does mean that cache is missing. I log all the caches that I look for and don't find. It's only fair to myself and the owner. Plus some DNF logs and more interesting than a lot of found logs I've seen.

 

Log it DNF.

Well said! I agree! As I have said many times before, I always religiously log DNFs, and I put every bit as much tender loving care into my DNF logs as I put into my find logs.

[+briansnat]

If I search for a cache and don't find it, I log a DNF.

 

As a cache owner, I can assure you that a single DNF will usually not cause me to check on the cache unless there is something in the log that tells me I need to (like "found lid but no container").

 

What I look for is a pattern of DNFs. If I get 2 or 3 row for what is supposed to be a fairly easy cache then I will check on it. If people are not logging their DNFs, it will take longer for that pattern to develop.

 

If you come along and don't log your DNF, then Cacher B searches and does log his DNF, then Cacher C comes up empty and doesn't log his DNF there will be 3 DNFs and I should be checking on the cache, but I will only know about 1 DNF. You are not doing the cache owner any favors by not logging your DNFs and in fact may be making things harder for him.

Edited March 12, 2007 by briansnat

[+DavidMac]

I always log my DNFs; in fact, I reached the 100 DNF milestone a few months back. There is a difference between a "scoured the area and only found a cache-shaped hole covered with sticks" log and a "only searched for two minutes, then had to leave when it started to pour" log. I'm usually specific enough in my logs that an owner would be able to tell whether I truly think there is a problem with the cache or whether the issue is with the finder.

Edited March 12, 2007 by DavidMac

[+wimseyguy]

You came, you looked, you didn't find. Log the DNF. Simple and painless despite what others might contend. There's no shame nor pain in a DNF, and some many of the best logs I have ever read are DNF's.

 

I logged one on a 1/1.5 cache yesterday. While walking to another nearby cache in the same park, I called the owner who confirmed that the obvious spot I looked in (and not the dozens of other places I looked) should have been the home of the cache. Since he was out of state, I offered to replace the container. Then I logged a find.

[+Renegade Knight]

Vidi Vini NO Vici.

 

That's a DNF. If he truly hides hard caches all the DNF means is that it's rated difficult and that that rating is accuate. Even if he won't pop out and look based on one DNF to too many accumualte he will know that it's time to go check on it.

 

DNF logs help.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Log a DNF when you don't find an existing cache, no problem.

 

The owner may choose to allow you to log a find if you find the hide site and the owner or other reliable source says it is MIA, whether you replace it or not.

[+gh patriot]

Hiding well is crucial...

 

 

As a bow hunter, Im still smiling from this one!!

[+briansnat]

wrong thread

Edited March 12, 2007 by briansnat

[+gh patriot]

That segment of people who are playing a different game, one that often doesn't involve finding geocaches, can create their own game and website. Perhaps they can call the game SmileyHunt and create a website called Rackupsmileys.com.

 

Now thats just funny

[+Totem Clan]

 

Kind of sad that it's come to that. This sport used to be about finding geocaches. How about if we keep one website dedicated to the game of geocaching? We can call it something like Geocaching.com.

 

That segment of people who are playing a different game, one that often doesn't involve finding geocaches, can create their own game and website. Perhaps they can call the game SmileyHunt and create a website called Rackupsmileys.com.

What briansnat said.

 

 

It is sad that it has come that though.

[+scoobybri]

I see from your profile that you've only got 11 finds under your belt. Being a relative newbie, I can assure you that you will get better at finding caches! I was a total noob a few months ago and had a couple of DNFs that were frustrating. After finding another 40 caches, I went back and found them VERY quickly! My geosenses had improved and I now know what to look for. On every one, I was like "Duh! I can't believe I didn't look here." Just give it time. Look for some easier caches at first and then start doing some more difficult caches once you start to feel confident.

 

Scooby

[+mikeslomka]

I look for a lot of caches on my lunchtime at work, so I usually don't have long to look. My rule of thumb is that if I don't find it on the second day of lunchtime hunts, then I will log it as a DNF. I don't feel that is cheating, I feel that is giving myself adequate time to search. Also, I almost always go back the very next day. I'm certainly not ashamed of DNF's. Many times you can learn a lot by what you didn't find.

[+mgoose]

It always helps the cache owners to log DNFs. That way they mite know that there is a problem with a cache. You can always drop the cache owner and e-mail see if they mite give a few hints or even a help line

Most cachers are glad to help out weather they are newbies or not on most of the hides.

[X-isle]

I see from your profile that you've only got 11 finds under your belt. Being a relative newbie, I can assure you that you will get better at finding caches! I was a total noob a few months ago and had a couple of DNFs that were frustrating. After finding another 40 caches, I went back and found them VERY quickly! My geosenses had improved and I now know what to look for. On every one, I was like "Duh! I can't believe I didn't look here." Just give it time. Look for some easier caches at first and then start doing some more difficult caches once you start to feel confident.

 

Scooby

Now! That's what I wanted to hear. I am sure it's because of my inexperience, and I'll improve eventually. Thanks everyone for the feedback. I appreciate ya!

[X-isle]

It always helps the cache owners to log DNFs. That way they mite know that there is a problem with a cache. You can always drop the cache owner and e-mail see if they mite give a few hints or even a help line

Most cachers are glad to help out weather they are newbies or not on most of the hides.

Dude...love the avatar! Thanks for getting back to me, and the feedback. That's good advise. Thanks again.

[+briansnat]

I see from your profile that you've only got 11 finds under your belt. Being a relative newbie, I can assure you that you will get better at finding caches! I was a total noob a few months ago and had a couple of DNFs that were frustrating. After finding another 40 caches, I went back and found them VERY quickly! My geosenses had improved and I now know what to look for. On every one, I was like "Duh! I can't believe I didn't look here." Just give it time. Look for some easier caches at first and then start doing some more difficult caches once you start to feel confident.

 

Scooby

Now! That's what I wanted to hear. I am sure it's because of my inexperience, and I'll improve eventually. Thanks everyone for the feedback. I appreciate ya!

 

But the key is that you aren't afraid to log DNFs because you are hesitant to bother the cache owner because of your perceived ineptitude. The cache owner wants to know if you were hunting his cache and he wants to know how your hunt turned out.

[+QSparrow]

The cache owner wants to know if you were hunting his cache and he wants to know how your hunt turned out.

Not always.

[+dyerx4]

Just put yourself in the hider's situation. Would you be angry to have someone posting a DNF? I had one guy post a DNF on a very easy cache of mine that I knew was there. It didn't bother me a bit. It actually made me feel kinda good that it wasn't THAT easy. If someone is placing difficult caches, it comes with the territory. But if it is truly missing, they will appreciate your DNF. They are depending on one or two DNF to go out and look. I always post my DNF, even to my own embarrassment (I see it was found after I posted it). Who cares. I just go back and find it, as long as I know it there. Sometimes, if it's dark, or I am having a bonehead day, I may not post a DNF, because it's probably there, just need to try at another time. Also, maybe go out on caches that have been found recently. At least you know the cache should be there.

[+Team Rat Pack (led by Miss Bi)]

I am very disappointed by the tendency of some cachers to loath to post their DNF's. We have several caches that are intended to be tricky hides. When we run into local cachers we are FREQUENTLY told that each of them made two, three or more trips out to look for those caches but came up empty until the cacher finally came up with the find. Not ONE of those cachers have EVER posted a DNF. As I cache owners we really NEED the DNF's so that we will be alerted that we might need to check on the cache. Also, when we are attempting tricky and fun hides, seeing that it has challenged other cachers is a reward for our work and our attempts at creativity. If it is too easy for everyone we feel that we have failed.

 

As a note, we post ALL our DNF's. Even one cache several years ago that required 4 trips to find. In fact a DNF just makes us that much determined to eventually find the cache

[Trinity's Crew]

I was converted by others while debating this topic a couple of years ago. Log ALL of your DNFs. They're cool! They are also part of your history. Also, many owners delight in DNF logs. They make the hide intentionally difficult and like to see that effort rewarded with a few frustated DNF logs.

The owner will likely be able to decide whether to check on a cache if you give an honest assessment of your effort. If your GPS wouldn't cooperate, or you only looked for a couple of minutes, just mention it in the log.

Besides, you can debate about how many smilies you should log on a cache 'til the cows come home, but when it comes to frownies, the sky is the limit.