Define "Buried"

[Neos2]

I'm not obsessing, I'm spending a rainy day pursuing one of my hobbies,internet forums. I'm also trying to decide if geocacheing is a hobby I wish to take part in. And if geocachers are people I would like to invite to use an underutilezed area of my county.

I'm also involved with a wilderness navigation course, and am wondering if geocaching should be a part of it.

Glad to hear that you are enjoying the internet debate, and not taking it too personally.

 

Debating on the internet won't do much to help you decide it you want to geocache. Geocaching will help you decide that. The forums are not geocaching.

 

Geocachers and under-utilized areas are a natural fit--usually--

Some thoughts:

• New geocachers will sometimes cause more damage to an area than experienced cachers.
  

• Extremely sensitive area are not typically well-suited to geocaching.
  

• If you are a new geocacher you might want to tag along on a hunt with more experienced cachers before making that kind of determination. Or wait until you have more experience.
  

Geoaching or at least the use of a GPS has been incorporated in many wilderness navigation courses. Are you thinking of teaching geocaching to people as part of the course? Searching the geocaching in education forum section may give you some ideas.

[+Wadcutter]

I'm still on the fence if I will continue with this hobby, If I have to spend 5-6 hours searching for something that is rated a slightly harder than easy.

There hasn't been a draft in the US since 1973. No one is forcing you to geocache. Some people don't enjoy it. If this cache gets you so upset then you won't enjoy the game.

 

There are over 2,000 caches in your region and you're obsessing over a single cache that appears to be rated wrong. I don't get it. Maybe you should find another hobby. Just don't try golf.

Doesn't golf involve digging? Or is that just the way it looks after I play?

 

One of the oldest, if not the oldest, still active caches was placed 5/11/00 in KS. It's a 5 gal bucket dug into the ground with the lid at ground level. As of today it's been logged 598 times.

Edited March 3, 2007 by Wadcutter

[+willy1970]

There hasn't been a draft in the US since 1973. No one is forcing you to geocache. Some people don't enjoy it. If this cache gets you so upset then you won't enjoy the game.

 

Amen to that.

 

Holy crap -- cache if you want to and don't if you don't. You don't see me over at the skydiving forums complaining about how I don't like to skydive. There's room for everyone in this activity, but nobody's heart is going to be broken if you don't like it. BTW, yes I did try skydiving once and quietly decided it wasn't my cup of tea -- so now I just don't do it at all. No big deal...............

 

Hope you find what you're looking for.

-Jeff

[+HartMan-CatWoman Team]

In reading through all the comments, I don't recall anyone mentioning another factor that often happens.

The owner of the cache may very well have hidden it with the correct rating. The first person to find and rehide the cache, or any subsequent finder, very likely re-hid the cache using the technique they thought was best and used materials available at that time.

I am always amazed at how different my caches are often placed when I check on them.

[+briansnat]

In reading through all the comments, I don't recall anyone mentioning another factor that often happens.

The owner of the cache may very well have hidden it with the correct rating. The first person to find and rehide the cache, or any subsequent finder, very likely re-hid the cache using the technique they thought was best and used materials available at that time.

I am always amazed at how different my caches are often placed when I check on them.

 

Very true. I have one that I haven't been able to find in 3 visits. I archived it once, assuming it was gone, then a few months later someone posted a find on it so I had it unarchived. People have found it since, but darned if I can.

[+Retcon]

Very true. I have one that I haven't been able to find in 3 visits. I archived it once, assuming it was gone, then a few months later someone posted a find on it so I had it unarchived. People have found it since, but darned if I can.

 

Now that's funny. If you ever do locate it, you should post a find

[PutnamEco]

Well, Here is what I think I should do.

I'm going to email the owner and request that they reconsider the rating and the clue/hint.

I'm going to suggest that it be uprated to a 2 star on the difficulty and or failing that that they should clarify the hint by either telling people which size, type or location of the said palm trees. I'll offer my coordinates, although I do believe that 30-40 ft accuracy could be sufficient if the hints where updated.

 

my question is now,

Is this an appropriate responce? Am I overstepping my bounds?

Should I have done this in my logs? ( I did make a passing remark or two in the logs) I would prefer to leave my logs as they stand, but I would like to see what the consensus is. If you all suggest that I go back and edit my logs, I will .

 

Or do I drop it all together, which would mean I would have no confidence in geocaching and would not be promoting it through the channels that I have available, and would not be recommending geocaching to the land managers that have asked my advice.

Although personally I'll still be trying a few more caches, for my own entertainment. (I still have a TB that needs a cache) before I totally write off caching, after all It was only one cache that I have a problem with. If I do find many more caches with what I feel are underrated ratings or insufficient hints, I will be finding a different hobby.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, people have many different interests. DO NOT take my leaving as an attack on YOUR hobby. After all I know that a lot of you would have zero interest is some of my other hobbies, and some may even go so far as to be opposed to what I do for fun.

 

In reading through all the comments, I don't recall anyone mentioning another factor that often happens.

The owner of the cache may very well have hidden it with the correct rating. The first person to find and rehide the cache, or any subsequent finder, very likely re-hid the cache using the technique they thought was best and used materials available at that time.

I am always amazed at how different my caches are often placed when I check on them.

 

The Logs indicate that the owner visits regularly, within the last week, in fact.

[+thedeadpirate]

Do what you feel you need to do. TPTB have already spoken as to the validity of the cache. You've had a number of responses to your questions already.

 

The long and short of it is you need to do what you need to do. It really doesn't matter what anybody here says.

[+ironman114]

my question is now,

Is this an appropriate responce? Am I overstepping my bounds?

 

I believe several have suggested to find more caches and then see how you feel. After doing more caches I started to spot the obvious hides easier also.

 

I honestly believe that with only 11 finds and having only done this for a month you won't be taken too seriously. How would you feel if I moved to your area (I am from the opposite corner of the US) and started telling you and your environmental council you were doing it all wrong?

 

but I would like to see what the consensus is.

I hope you really do. It seems to me right now you are wanting to just see responses that concur with you. Again there have been some good suggestions already.

[+Wadcutter]

Or do I drop it all together, which would mean I would have no confidence in geocaching and would not be promoting it through the channels that I have available, and would not be recommending geocaching to the land managers that have asked my advice.

As others have hinted - just drop it. You haven't gotten enough experience to have a good feeling for the game.

I'd be surprised if anyone cares if you have no confidence in geocaching nor whether you recommend it to anyone or not. With only 11 finds, and none of them rated particularly difficult, you haven't been at it long enough so your opinion of the game with land managers or anyone else really wouldn't be that credible. But, in your mind, if you think yourself that much of an expert, then I guess that makes at least one person who believes it.

Might as well sell your GPS and take up another hobby. Seriously, none of us will miss you inspite of your highly rated self opinion. As Willy said, he didn't like skydiving so he doesn't do it. Maybe you should try skydiving. That may be more to your liking. But after 11 jumps it probably would not wise to tell the guy who packs your chute that you think he's doing it wrong. He might end up agreeing with you.

 

I hope you really do. It seems to me right now you are wanting to just see responses that concur with you. Again there have been some good suggestions already.

That's usually the case. They aren't looking for opinions or guideance but they're looking for approval. Their minds are already made, they're just looking for support. When they don't get agreement then it becomes a battle of words with them trying to convince others just how right they are and how wrong everyone is who disagrees with them.

Edited March 4, 2007 by Wadcutter

[magellan315]

When you first posted I think you expected everyone to immediately agree with you and were surprised that no one did. Your taking things to literally when it comes to Geocaching.

 

The cache is not buried, nobody dug a hole, and you did not have to dig it up. So you poked around with a stick, I’ve found my share of caches by poking around with my hiking stick. Someone used an existing depression and covered it with leaves, not an unusual practice. You felt the coordinates are off, so by all means post them with your log, there is even option that will make sure that they are at the top of your log. The hint did not reveal the exact location; you’ll have similar issues with other caches since there is no mandated policy on how hints should be written.

 

You’ve only found 11 caches so far, find 30 and then see if feel the same way about this one cache. One of the earliest caches I found was low rated and took me thirty minutes to find, 20 finds later I did not struggle as much. You won’t find every cache every time and sometimes you have to stop looking, 30 minutes is enough for me. I can always come back another time. Also rather than do a grid search, try backing off 50’ and just looking at the area the cache is supposed to be, usually something sticks out.

 

You’ve gotten some real solid advice; so take a moment to learn about the backgrounds of few people who posted.

 

Briansnat – Has worked for years as a volunteer trail maintenance supervisor for the New Jersey State Park system and was recently named volunteer of the year or month. Can’t remember which.

Edscott – Ed is an active member of the Delaware Valley Orienteering Association, the largest group in the United States with 700 members and teaches classes to all sorts of groups. He goes Geocaching with nothing more than a map and a compass. If you think its tough finding one with a GPS come to Pennsylvania and spend a day with Ed, he makes it look easy.

I have taught Geocaching classes since 2003 and am one the first people to do so. I teach regularly with two county park systems, Boy Scouts, and Women in the Outdoors. In March I will be giving a seminar at a statewide conference for land managers and park rangers.

 

Based on your current post it sounds like you are going to stop Geocaching and use whatever influence you have to some how ban Geocaching in your area. That’s unfortunate, but before you do check these links:

Clearly someone thought this is a good idea

 

St. John’s River Water Management District Geocaching Policy I was a resident of Central Florida in 2002 when the SJRWMD sent out some threatening e-mails to local Geocachers about doing this on their land. Due to misconceptions about Geocaching and Geocachers. The SJRWMD received e-mails from all over the United States and Europe about how much they enjoyed coming to Florida on vacation and go Geocaching, calmer heads prevailed.

 

There are numerous policies with state and local agencies that show Geocaching works, when these government agencies work with us.

Edited March 4, 2007 by magellan315

[+JimmyEv]

If I'm going to have to continue to turn cache areas into something resembling swiss cheese, to try and find a covered hole by systematically poking the ground in a six inch grid pattern, for a 1.5 rated cache. I think I'm looking for another hobby.

 

Most caches can be found by carefully observing the area. If you look for awhile and can't find it, you need to stop looking before you reach your 'frustration' point where you start turning things into swiss cheese. Post a DNF, go look for a different one, and come back to this one a different time. I don't know how many times I've given up looking after 20 minutes or so, came back a different day, and ran right into the cache. Or stepped on it. And there's some you might never find. And I don't pay the difficulty rating much attention -- it varies too much person to person.

[PutnamEco]

Do what you feel you need to do. TPTB have already spoken as to the validity of the cache. You've had a number of responses to your questions already.

 

The long and short of it is you need to do what you need to do. It really doesn't matter what anybody here says.

 

TPTB only replied on the buried or not issue, Not the rating or hint issue.

 

I believe several have suggested to find more caches and then see how you feel. After doing more caches I started to spot the obvious hides easier also.

 

I honestly believe that with only 11 finds and having only done this for a month you won't be taken too seriously

 

Stated previously, this was NOT an obvious cache. even cachers with over 2000 finds where commenting that it was a tough find.

 

How would you feel if I moved to your area (I am from the opposite corner of the US) and started telling you and your environmental council you were doing it all wrong?

 

Your criticism would be debated at our general meeting, if it was justifiable and a legitimate complaint it would be taken very seriously, moved to be voted on by the board, reviewed by our board then by our team of lawyers, then voted and acted on. We have already made several changes in both mission statement and operating procedures from criticisms and suggestions made by "outsiders"

 

Sometimes a fresh perspective can shed a whole new light on things that even groups can sometimes fail to see.

 

a parable

 

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, all of the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result, and all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon the monkeys will try to prevent it.

Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all the other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs he will be attacked.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth.

Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked. Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey. After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana.

Why not? Because as far as they know, that’s the way it’s always been done around there.

 

Maybe a peer review rating system for caches? Every time some one logs a cache they get to cast a vote on the rating.

[+niffir]

I'm going to email the owner and request that they reconsider the rating and the clue/hint.

I'm going to suggest that it be uprated to a 2 star on the difficulty and or failing that that they should clarify the hint by either telling people which size, type or location of the said palm trees. I'll offer my coordinates, although I do believe that 30-40 ft accuracy could be sufficient if the hints where updated.

 

 

There is no rule anywhere that there even has to be a hint, let alone that it be a particularly useful one. I think being told that it is at the middle of a set of 3 palm trees is a pretty useful hint...it limits your search to clusters of three and even tells you which tree to examine in those clusters.

 

Last week I went looking for a cache called "I can't believe it's an ammo box" or something like that. After spending probably 15 minutes looking around, we decided to decypher the hint. What did it say? "I can't believe it's an ammo box". I wanted to beat my head against the wall at that point but had to admit it was funny in a perverse way. We spent another 10 minutes or so looking around and then just gave up on the cache for the day. I may return some day to hunt again, or perhaps I never will. The world will keep on spinning and I will keep on caching.

 

If you are going to get so caught up and irritated over a .5 difference in star rating from what it is and what you are suggesting that it be that you feel the need to quit the hobby and threaten us with the loss of your influential support, then perhaps this isn't the right hobby for you. Sometimes, particularly in your early days of caching, you just don't see the obvious hiding spot that you might see in an instant at a later date. To find my first cache I had to revisit the site 3 times in a 2 day span and even bring along my boyfriend to help me out. When I finally did find it, I felt totally silly. It was right there in a giant hollow in a tree near where the GPS zeroed out. I just hadn't gotten a feel for the likely places to look and what the containers might be like-- and I also expected the GPS to lead me to the exact location rather than an area of several hundred square feet.

 

My advice to you, although you don't seem to be listening much to anyone who gives this same advice, is to just let it go. In the grand scheme of things, a slight disagreement about how a cache should be rated and technicalities of whether leaves or branches or whatever covering the cache is within the rules isn't really a big deal. If those little things are going to make this hobby unenjoyable for you, then you are probably better off leaving. Or if you can let it go and just enjoy the sport -- saving your battles for much bigger issues-- then you may have a great hobby that you will participate in for years to come.

Edited March 4, 2007 by niffir

[+thedeadpirate]

Maybe a peer review rating system for caches? Every time some one logs a cache they get to cast a vote on the rating.

 

I suspected a for a while. Now I am 99.99% sure since you haven't gotten anywhere with the other you are now pulling out one of the other long standing threads that tend to fire up everyone's emotions.

 

If you're not just trolling, then take the advice given. Or quit geocaching. Take up skydiving. Whatever. Like I said before, you need to do what you need to do.

 

I'm going to do what I need to do and put this thread on my ignore list.

 

Thank you for playing.

[+ironman114]

Your criticism would be debated at our general meeting, if it was justifiable and a legitimate complaint it would be taken very seriously, moved to be voted on by the board, reviewed by our board then by our team of lawyers, then voted and acted on.

 

Your criticism when you first posted was about a cache being buried. When it was pointed out that it wasn't buried then you complained that it should have been rated a half star harder. It has been pointed out to you that maybe if you find more caches then you will find ones like these easier. Even seasoned cachers have a brain fart sometimes and the have a DOH! moment when they finally get it and find a cache.

 

Your criticism has been debated, was not found to be justifiable or legitimate. Look around how many posters are on your side of the debate?

 

Now how would you feel if at your meeting I kept coming and said you were wrong time after time?

 

 

Now I have a parable:

 

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a bunch of bananas on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, all of the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result, and all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon the monkeys realize the one on the stairs is not getting wet and enjoying a banana.

 

Now take one monkey out and replace him with a new one. The other monkeys ask him to join them on the crowded steps and get some bananas. But he doesn't want to go along with the crowd and stays put. When the other monkeys get on the steps to get a banana the new monkey gets all wet. But he still refuses to join in with the others and have a banana, he just sits there all cold and wet while the other monkeys have fun!

 

Maybe a peer review rating system for caches? Every time some one logs a cache they get to cast a vote on the rating.

 

This topic has been debated here many times. What if some one doesn't like you and gets his friends to post bad reviews along with his? Similar things have happened in response to some bookmark lists.

 

It seems that the North Florida Tourism thinks geocaching is worthy enough to promote it.

 

Why don't you join the other fine folks from your state and the other monkeys on the stairs and have some fun and bananas?

[PutnamEco]

When you first posted I think you expected everyone to immediately agree with you and were surprised that no one did. Your taking things to literally when it comes to Geocaching

 

Actually, I was expecting,

 

SFTU n00b U R s000000000000000000000000000000000000000 l4m3 lollol n00bs r sTpd l00zr n00b g0 h0m3

 

The cache is not buried, nobody dug a hole, and you did not have to dig it up. So you poked around with a stick, I’ve found my share of caches by poking around with my hiking stick. Someone used an existing depression and covered it with leaves, not an unusual practice. You felt the coordinates are off, so by all means post them with your log, there is even option that will make sure that they are at the top of your log. The hint did not reveal the exact location; you’ll have similar issues with other caches since there is no mandated policy on how hints should be written.

 

Maybe it might be time for a "policy" on hints??

 

You’ve only found 11 caches so far, find 30 and then see if feel the same way about this one cache. One of the earliest caches I found was low rated and took me thirty minutes to find, 20 finds later I did not struggle as much. You won’t find every cache every time and sometimes you have to stop looking, 30 minutes is enough for me. I can always come back another time. Also rather than do a grid search, try backing off 50’ and just looking at the area the cache is supposed to be, usually something sticks out.

 

Previously stated. I've worked in a professional capacity finding things in the woods with a GPSr, I've spent more time in the woods than I'd care to admit, both for fun and profit. Including not setting foot indoors for more than a year, not so long ago.

 

You’ve gotten some real solid advice; so take a moment to learn about the backgrounds of few people who posted.

 

Briansnat – Has worked for years as a volunteer trail maintenance supervisor for the New Jersey State Park system and was recently named volunteer of the year or month. Can’t remember which.

Edscott – Ed is an active member of the Delaware Valley Orienteering Association, the largest group in the United States with 700 members and teaches classes to all sorts of groups. He goes Geocaching with nothing more than a map and a compass. If you think its tough finding one with a GPS come to Pennsylvania and spend a day with Ed, he makes it look easy.

I have taught Geocaching classes since 2003 and am one the first people to do so. I teach regularly with two county park systems, Boy Scouts, and Women in the Outdoors. In March I will be giving a seminar at a statewide conference for land managers and park rangers.

 

Thank you for the introductions

 

Based on your current post it sounds like you are going to stop Geocaching and use whatever influence you have to some how ban Geocaching in your area.

 

No, no matter how much I despise something( Not that I despise geocacheing).I would not deny others the pleasure to seek their own bliss. As long as It does not affect others. I'm trying to decide whether I'll promote geocaching in my circle of influence.

 

I still have a bad taste in my mouth from another unrelated group that I recommended, that for a while was managed very poorly (dictatorially), and who where not sensitive to the people they where serving. I had recommended them to some very influential people,the kind of people who can make or break a career.(if you know about FL., you know about the good old boys and how you don't want to get on there bad side, especially if you are an outsider.) who the group had know idea who they where. and half of them got banned from the group for VERY minor infractions. Three years later I'm still dealing with the repercussions.

 

That’s unfortunate, but before you do check these links:

Clearly someone thought this is a good idea

 

St. John’s River Water Management District Geocaching Policy I was a resident of Central Florida in 2002 when the SJRWMD sent out some threatening e-mails to local Geocachers about doing this on their land. Due to misconceptions about Geocaching and Geocachers. The SJRWMD received e-mails from all over the United States and Europe about how much they enjoyed coming to Florida on vacation and go Geocaching, calmer heads prevailed.

 

There are numerous policies with state and local agencies that show Geocaching works, when these government agencies work with us.

 

Yes, but my question is more along the opposite, how do you work with government agency and the public? especially newbies with concerns? and newbies with self important attitudes, like say, politicos?

 

So far I'm amazed at most of the kind and patient answers, I know a lot of forums where this type of dialog would not have ended well.

It does appear that I'm starting to wear some peoples patience quite thin.

 

The consenses seems to be for me to let it drop. That is what I'll do.

 

I would like to leave you all with this thought, though. How much geo-experience does someone involved with land management need, to say, not on the land I manage?

[PutnamEco]

Sorry I just can't resist. To easy

 

Now I have a parable:

 

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a bunch of bananas on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, all of the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result, and all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon the monkeys realize the one on the stairs is not getting wet and enjoying a banana.

 

Now take one monkey out and replace him with a new one. The other monkeys ask him to join them on the crowded steps and get some bananas. But he doesn't want to go along with the crowd and stays put. When the other monkeys get on the steps to get a banana the new monkey gets all wet. But he still refuses to join in with the others and have a banana, he just sits there all cold and wet while the other monkeys have fun! laugh.gif

 

Who Is this new monkey, the one who is trying to get the monkeys on the steps towards the bananas???? And who are the the old monkeys refusing to change and sitting there all wet ???? I hope that your not imploring me to break out the hose.

 

Imagine, accurate ratings, reliable hints, just because you haven't achieved it, doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

This topic has been debated here many times. What if some one doesn't like you and gets his friends to post bad reviews along with his? Similar things have happened in response to some bookmark lists.

 

The Open Source Movement has been working on this for quite a few years now and have the wisdom you seek, just look.

 

I would recommend the Debian constition as a good starting point. followed by further studies of Wikipedia

 

followed by intence study of Slashdot and their whole karma system.

 

I'll also toss in seven lessonsto further you understanding. of some of the dynamics involved.

 

probably better discussed in a philosophy forum or moved into off topic, now. I want to shut up now. DON"T FEED THE TROLLS.

Edited March 4, 2007 by PutnamEco

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Geocide is painless...

[+KBI]

I like to fix things, I had a bad experience, I don't want others to share.

In my opinion being in a hole covered by leaves = buried

Maybe a peer review rating system for caches? Every time some one logs a cache they get to cast a vote on the rating.

Maybe it might be time for a "policy" on hints??

I believe each of these ideas is well–intended and worthy of debate, but – if this hobby ever becomes as micro-managed and over-legislated as you seem to want, I’m out.

 

Geocaching is a game of amateurs. This is difficult concept even for some experienced cachers to understand, but satisfying everyone is not necessarily the goal, and neither should it be. Cache hiders are not business owners kissing the backsides of those whom they depend on for income; they are volunteers – amateur volunteers – attempting merely to entertain their fellow participants the best way they know how. There is no rule that says each cache must entertain every cacher, or even that each cache must entertain a majority of cachers. As long as it's done within the rules, a cache can even stay listed if it fails to entertain anybody. Owners are free to hide their caches as excellently or as clumsily (within the Guidelines and TOS) as they like. At its best, Geocaching is nothing more than a silly and clandestine, yet wholesome and grown-up, version of hide and seek. It can be entertaining; amazing; silly; lame; educational; frustrating; repetitious; surprising; addicting. Mostly though, for me anyway, it’s an excuse to get outside and away from the TV.

 

All cache hiders are nothing but amateur volunteers. That cache owner you describe was merely a fellow player trying to entertain you – and anyone else who decided to try his hide. Nobody is perfect, however, and there is an extensive variety of ways in which a cache hider can fall short of the ideal. Inappropriate hiding places, uninspired designs, badly marked coords, inaccurate ratings, faulty descriptions, misleading hints, inadequate durability of hardware, bad camouflage, poor maintenance ...

 

These imperfections can be frustrating, but the only way to enjoy Geocaching, in my opinion, is to learn to enjoy the inevitable imperfections ... or at least to accept and tolerate them. They’re part of the charm of the game. More importantly, there’s no effective way to get rid of them. I can guarantee you that you will NOT enjoy every single cache hide you ever attempt to find. If this is not acceptable to you, then maybe Geocaching is not your hobby.

 

You’re an intelligent person. If you feel that you have something constructive to offer the owner in the form of feedback, you’re probably right. And of course, anytime you encounter something that is a clear violation of the Guidelines you should report it. If you're not sure, it's usually best to politely confront the owner first. Whether you email him/her is up to you. You could even call their attention to this very thread. A wise cache owner welcomes and considers all feedback. If the owner accepts your help and changes the listing for the better, then pat yourself on the back for your successful diplomacy, and move on. If the owner ignores your message – or worse, reacts negatively – then simply roll your eyes and move on.

 

See you on the trail!

Edited March 4, 2007 by KBI

[+halffast]

I know this may be a little off topic but...

 

Just relax. So what, you had one bad experience. Don't let it spoil your view of this great activity. Go out, find more, and I'll bet the good experiences will by far and away out number the bad.

 

Take care and Happy caching.

Bccruiser

I aggree.Not all caches are going to be in plain sight.

[magellan315]

Yes, but my question is more along the opposite, how do you work with government agency and the public? especially newbies with concerns? and newbies with self-important attitudes, like say, politicos?

 

GC.com is not like the Sierra Club, they are a listing service. So we do not have a formal national organization. There are numerous Geocaching groups throughout the United States that are formed by locals. They work with land managers by helping them understand how little impact Geocaching has, they will not be overrun by hordes of Geocachers, and existing guidelines prevent over saturation. Geocaching is a family friendly activity and that makes it appealing to land managers as well.

 

I have worked with land managers by creating Geocaching classes for local residents, which allows them to add new and innovative programming and get people to visit the parks that normally would not.

The other major benefit is the concept of CITO, cache in, Trash out. Land managers love the fact that we pick up trash while Geocaching. More importantly the impressive results that occur from organized CITOs. 2006 CITO Pictures, 2005 CITO Pictures , 2004 CITO Pictures . From my own experience I organized one, the letter I received from the regional park superintendent included this; “We have worked with volunteer groups over the years performing trash removal from various sites, but I have never seen such results”. Check out this link and see if anyone of these CITO’s is close by.

 

Generally most interactions throughout the United States most Geocachers have built positive relationships. There are some who will not allow Geocaching, I assume that is due to misconceptions about Geocaching, lawyers who are more concerned about lawsuits, and that is easier to say no than to investigate and say yes.

 

I would like to leave you all with this thought, though. How much geo-experience does someone involved with land management need, to say, not on the land I manage?

 

In all honestly not that much, you just need to find some aspect that you think will benefit your park. Low impact, no over saturation, a new reason for people to come the park, new programming, or a new source of volunteers through a CITO. The trick is to turn to local Geocaching groups for help, like the one above or this one . They will be more than willing to help you incorporate Geocaching as a part of acceptable land use.

Edited March 4, 2007 by magellan315

[+Misha]

Speaking of burried, this puppy was about 1 metre down covered in mud, moss and rocks. We located it via a metal detector. GCQ2Q5 http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...=y&decrypt=

Misha

Edited March 4, 2007 by Misha

[PutnamEco]

 

I believe each of these ideas is well–intended and worthy of debate, but – if this hobby ever becomes as micro-managed and over-legislated as you seem to want, I’m out.

 

This Posting has turned me into a troll and you guys keep feeding me.

 

I did not ask for micromanagement, I asked for was ACCURATE ratings. and DECENT hints,{edit} so that people do not not over search an area, and thereby damage the area.{/edit} I do KNOW for a fact that amateurs are capable of achieving a workable peer review systems. Look at sites like Slashdot, Digg, Wikipedia, Epinions,Freecycle, or any of the other sites along those lines. All these are very similar to this site. Pro hosted, amateur driven.

 

These imperfections can be frustrating, but the only way to enjoy Geocaching, in my opinion, is to learn to enjoy the inevitable imperfections ... or at least to accept and tolerate them. They’re part of the charm of the game. More importantly, there’s no effective way to get rid of them.

 

Remember. I'm newbie here, and it is not my intention to troll

 

Have you all tried to "get rid of them"? OR are you just resigned to accepting it?

 

You’re an intelligent person. If you feel that you have something constructive to offer the owner in the form of feedback, you’re probably right. And of course, anytime you encounter something that is a clear violation of the Guidelines you should report it. If you're not sure, it's usually best to politely confront the owner first. Whether you email him/her is up to you. You could even call their attention to this very thread. A wise cache owner welcomes and considers all feedback. If the owner accepts your help and changes the listing for the better, then pat yourself on the back for your successful diplomacy, and move on. If the owner ignores your message – or worse, reacts negatively – then simply roll your eyes and move on.

 

I was not entirely sure of the guidelines, That is why I'm asking questions here. To me the referenced cache was buried, the consensus here was that it was not.

Ok, my interpretion was off, I can live with that. No need to bother the cache owner. (Or, is there?)

I did not want to confront the owner of the cache over something I was not sure of, that's why I posted here. I thought that this would be an appropriate place to ask. Was I wrong on this also? Do you all usually go to the cache owners with your problems first?

Edited March 4, 2007 by PutnamEco

[PutnamEco]

GC.com is not like the Sierra Club, they are a listing service. So we do not have a formal national organisation. There are numerous Geocaching groups throughout the United States that are formed by locals. They work with land managers by helping them understand how little impact Geocaching has, they will not be overrun by hordes of Geocachers, and existing guidelines prevent over saturation. Geocaching is a family friendly activity and that makes it appealing to land managers as well.

 

My concern is, how does Geocaching respond to public criticisms of caches on public land?

 

The consensus here seems to be for me to drop the complaint I had. That works for the area of the cache that I had questions about. No harm done. In some situations this will NOT be an acceptable option. People can and do lose jobs and or have their reputations tarnished over public criticisms coming at them from oblique angles. Better to nip it in the bud, than to have it become a problem.

 

I'm already on thin ice over recommending, what in my opinion is a good thing,"cough cough,Freecycle, cough cough" (where the problem of not having a complaint resolution system in place, has been resolved, by volunteers, I may add.) that some of my peers had a bad experience with.

[wolfbait]

Hmm... define burried.... this topic... case closed

[PutnamEco]

Speaking of burried, this puppy was about 1 metre down covered in mud, moss and rocks. We located it via a metal detector. GCQ2Q5 http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...=y&decrypt=

Misha

 

I see that was appropriately rated.

[magellan315]

Your making a mountain out of a mole hill. You came here expecting everyone to agree with you and no one did, if anything you have been given very patient advice from a diverse group of Geocachers. It has been repeatedly suggested that you go out and find twenty more caches, then ask yourself if this cache really was as bad as you originally thought it was.

 

You won't find every cache the first time, sometimes easy caches can be difficult to find, you may not always agree with the rating or the hint and for the majority of the caches this will be an exception not the rule. A new player such as yourself may feel a cache should have a different rating 20 caches from now you won't.

 

You were right in coming here to ask for advice, your just not willing to accept the advice you have been given.

[+KBI]

I did not ask for micromanagement, I asked for was ACCURATE ratings. and DECENT hints...

Then your beef is with the individual cache owner, not the website.

 

Expecting each and every amateur cache owner to hide, rate and hint their caches to your particularly high standards of perfection is unreasonable -- in my opinion. Several of us have already discussed that. This game takes a little patience.

 

I do KNOW for a fact that amateurs are capable of achieving a workable peer review systems. Look at sites like Slashdot, Digg, Wikipedia, Epinions,Freecycle, or any of the other sites along those lines. All these are very similar to this site. Pro hosted, amateur driven.

We have guidelines, and for the most part they work pretty well. I just don't see any problem with the cache you described. Sounds like a fun one to me.

 

These imperfections can be frustrating, but the only way to enjoy Geocaching, in my opinion, is to learn to enjoy the inevitable imperfections ... or at least to accept and tolerate them. They’re part of the charm of the game. More importantly, there’s no effective way to get rid of them.

 

Remember. I'm newbie here, and it is not my intention to troll

 

Have you all tried to "get rid of them"? OR are you just resigned to accepting it?

There are a few folks around here who will attempt to ban or otherwise control any element of the game that they don't happen to like, regardless what others think. The problem is that each complainer has their own unique set of dislikes. Others accept the diversity of the caching experience for what it is, and quickly learn to either tolerate or avoid whatever they may dislike.

 

Learning to accept that which you can't (or shouldn't) control is not just a good way to Geocache -- it is good Words To Live By, period.

 

You’re an intelligent person. If you feel that you have something constructive to offer the owner in the form of feedback, you’re probably right. And of course, anytime you encounter something that is a clear violation of the Guidelines you should report it. If you're not sure, it's usually best to politely confront the owner first. Whether you email him/her is up to you. You could even call their attention to this very thread. A wise cache owner welcomes and considers all feedback. If the owner accepts your help and changes the listing for the better, then pat yourself on the back for your successful diplomacy, and move on. If the owner ignores your message – or worse, reacts negatively – then simply roll your eyes and move on.

I was not entirely sure of the guidelines, That is why I'm asking questions here. To me the referenced cache was buried, the consensus here was that it was not.

Ok, my interpretion was off, I can live with that. No need to bother the cache owner. (Or, is there?)

If you feel so strongly about it ... then maybe yes.

 

I did not want to confront the owner of the cache over something I was not sure of, that's why I posted here. I thought that this would be an appropriate place to ask. Was I wrong on this also?

The best way to answer that question is to put yourself in the owner's shoes: Which would annoy you less: a direct criticism from a finder of your cache, or discovering that the finder of your cache chose instead to make a public issue of it in the Forums without talking to you?

 

Do you all usually go to the cache owners with your problems first?

I can't speak for anyone else, but that's always been my preferred method.

[PutnamEco]

Your making a mountain out of a mole hill. You came here expecting everyone to agree with you and no one did, if anything you have been given very patient advice from a diverse group of Geocachers. It has been repeatedly suggested that you go out and find twenty more caches, then ask yourself if this cache really was as bad as you originally thought it was.

 

You won't find every cache the first time, sometimes easy caches can be difficult to find, you may not always agree with the rating or the hint and for the majority of the caches this will be an exception not the rule. A new player such as yourself may feel a cache should have a different rating 20 caches from now you won't.

 

You were right in coming here to ask for advice, your just not willing to accept the advice you have been given.

 

IF you read through the thread, you would have known that I really did expect to be treated like a lame noob, although most have not treated me that way....

 

You're expecting me to go out and to have found 20 caches in less than a day??

 

What advice have I not complied with?

 

Please DO NOT take this the wrong way I really am trying to learn.

 

Did you every stop to consider that some people may have a lot more to loose, by recommending something, that may not work out well, than you?

 

People just keep coming back with things I feel I should reply to. What would you have me do???

[+KBI]

My concern is, how does Geocaching respond to public criticisms of caches on public land?

 

The consensus here seems to be for me to drop the complaint I had. That works for the area of the cache that I had questions about. No harm done. In some situations this will NOT be an acceptable option.

Now I'm confused. Which thing is it that you don't like? Is it (1) the appropriateness of the location that was chosen for the cache hide in question, or (2) the choice of hiding style?

 

(1) is an issue for the reviewers; (2) is merely a matter of taste.

 

If you're simply frustrated with the hiding style, then you simply need to learn a little more geo-skill and geo-patience. Or find a more enjoyable pastime. No shame in giving up a hobby you don't like. You said so yourself when you mentioned golf (and I’m with you about not liking golf).

 

If it’s the appropriateness of the location you’re concerned about, then you should probably first take it up with the cache owner. If you're not satisfied with the owner's response, you might then have a good reason to post a 'Should Be Archived' note on the cache page. By your own admission, however, this is not the case. At this point, therefore, you're merely talking hypotheticals: "But what if something really really bad DOES happen? Why aren't you folks worried about what MIGHT happen?"

[magellan315]

GC.com is not like the Sierra Club, they are a listing service. So we do not have a formal national organisation. There are numerous Geocaching groups throughout the United States that are formed by locals. They work with land managers by helping them understand how little impact Geocaching has, they will not be overrun by hordes of Geocachers, and existing guidelines prevent over saturation. Geocaching is a family friendly activity and that makes it appealing to land managers as well.

 

My concern is, how does Geocaching respond to public criticisms of caches on public land?

 

The consensus here seems to be for me to drop the complaint I had. That works for the area of the cache that I had questions about. No harm done. In some situations this will NOT be an acceptable option. People can and do lose jobs and or have their reputations tarnished over public criticisms coming at them from oblique angles. Better to nip it in the bud, than to have it become a problem.

 

I'm already on thin ice over recommending, what in my opinion is a good thing,"cough cough,Freecycle, cough cough" (where the problem of not having a complaint resolution system in place, has been resolved, by volunteers, I may add.) that some of my peers had a bad experience with.

 

There are several options available to you.

1. Use the SJRWMD Geocaching policy for any lands you may manage.

2. Contact GC.com and they will have the reviewer for area contact you. They are also volunteers.

3. Contact your local Geocaching group and work with them to avoid any problems. I've given you links to two. You are by no means an experienced or unbiased Geocacher. You'll find your local Geocaching group can work with land managers to reach a reasonable accomodation.

 

In six years of Geocaching the only time I have seen public criticism that can not be resolved is when land mamagers with misinformation and misconceptions about Geocaching refuse to work with local Geoachers to reach a reasonable accomodation.

 

There are many places that have formal and reasonable Geocaching policies, BLM, National Forest Service, Pennsylvania State Park and Forest Dept., and many other state and county agencies. They learned to work with local Geoachers maybe you should do the same.

[+KBI]

Did you every stop to consider that some people may have a lot more to loose, by recommending something, that may not work out well, than you?

Who says you have to recommend anything to anybody? If you feel you're taking such a huge risk by introducing someone else to this hobby, then just don't do it. If you don't feel comfortable associating your name with Geocaching, then don't.

 

It’s like Warren Buffet said about stocks: Nobody ever lost money on a stock they didn’t buy.

 

As others have said (repeatedly): you might want to go out and find a few dozen more caches before you pass judgment on the entire game just because of one unpleasant experience.

[magellan315]

IF you read through the thread, you would have known that I really did expect to be treated like a lame noob, although most have not treated me that way....

 

I read through the entire thread, IF you would take a moment I have been posting from early in this thread, I've provided answers to your questions, and have not resorted to the name calling you keep thinking is going to happen.

 

You're expecting me to go out and to have found 20 caches in less than a day??

Nobody has suggested you 20 in one day, just find another 20 over the next month or so and then see if you have the same concerns.

 

Did you every stop to consider that some people may have a lot more to loose, by recommending something, that may not work out well, than you?

If your not 100% sure one way or the other about Geocaching don't make any reccomendation. If your asked just say you need to do more research. If you want to do more research contact the two Florida Geocaching groups. I bet they have contacts with other land managers who are more experience with Geocahcers and the impact of Geocaching on their land

Edited March 5, 2007 by magellan315

[+Wadcutter]

Here's a website that might help:

Help for 1/2 star rating concern.

Edited March 5, 2007 by Wadcutter

[+RockyRaab]

Oh, pshaw. (written as a PC expedient to "Oh, pschit.")

 

Whether you are a hider or a finder, simply define your stick/tool as "blunt" and get over it.

 

You find it or you don't. It's just a cache, for Pete's sake!

[+briansnat]

I would like to leave you all with this thought, though. How much geo-experience does someone involved with land management need, to say, not on the land I manage?

 

Not a lot. However it seems the more practical experience land managers have with geocaching, the more likely they are to allow it. Its usually the ones with little experience with the sport who issue a knee jerk ban.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Me, I wouldn't have picked it up without gloves and a disposal bag. Prophylaxis is important, especially with these hypodermics at caches in the woods!

FYI

Don't put that much trust in gloves when dealing with a sharp object, and don't let yourself be caught in posession of drug paraphenalia. Proper receptacle for a needle is a cardboard or plastic box, not a bag.

[PutnamEco]

My concern is, how does Geocaching respond to public criticisms of caches on public land?

 

The consensus here seems to be for me to drop the complaint I had. That works for the area of the cache that I had questions about. No harm done. In some situations this will NOT be an acceptable option.

Now I'm confused. Which thing is it that you don't like? Is it (1) the appropriateness of the location that was chosen for the cache hide in question, or (2) the choice of hiding style?

 

(1) is an issue for the reviewers; (2) is merely a matter of taste.

 

If you're simply frustrated with the hiding style, then you simply need to learn a little more geo-skill and geo-patience. Or find a more enjoyable pastime. No shame in giving up a hobby you don't like. You said so yourself when you mentioned golf (and I’m with you about not liking golf).

 

Given your options, I would have to say "hiding style". If people have to resort to "poking" out a cache in a relatively large area, with a stick as I did, and it appeared to me, at the cache site, that I was not the only one to do this. Then something may be amiss. It is my OPINION that this is acceptable in the roadside ditch that this cache was located in. It is MY OPINION that this would not be acceptable on public lands that are maintained as natural areas. It is MY OPINION, if the "hint" was a small bit more descriptive, the impact to the area would be greatly reduced.

 

Then your beef is with the individual cache owner, not the website.

 

Expecting each and every amateur cache owner to hide, rate and hint their caches to your particularly high standards of perfection is unreasonable -- in my opinion. Several of us have already discussed that. This game takes a little patience.

 

I was not entirely sure of the guidelines, That is why I'm asking questions here. To me the referenced cache was buried, the consensus here was that it was not.

Ok, my interpretion was off, I can live with that. No need to bother the cache owner. (Or, is there?)

 

If you feel so strongly about it ... then maybe yes.

 

I do feel strongly about this. How ever I have felt strongly about things that I was wrong about before, Some would say that I should drop it, some resort to inferring that I'm being obsessive about the issue. And some confuse me further by being ambiguous.

 

QUOTE(PutnamEco @ Mar 4 2007, 05:15 PM) *

I did not want to confront the owner of the cache over something I was not sure of, that's why I posted here. I thought that this would be an appropriate place to ask. Was I wrong on this also?

 

The best way to answer that question is to put yourself in the owner's shoes: Which would annoy you less: a direct criticism from a finder of your cache, or discovering that the finder of your cache chose instead to make a public issue of it in the Forums without talking to you?

 

If I had a cache and someone had a gripe with it, and was unsure whether they had a legitimate gripe or not, with it, I would hope that they would research the legitimacy of their gripe, before they bothered me about it.

 

There are several options available to you.

1. Use the SJRWMD Geocaching policy for any lands you may manage.

2. Contact GC.com and they will have the reviewer for area contact you. They are also volunteers.

3. Contact your local Geocaching group and work with them to avoid any problems. I've given you links to two. You are by no means an experienced or unbiased Geocacher. You'll find your local Geocaching group can work with land managers to reach a reasonable accommodation.

 

In six years of Geocaching the only time I have seen public criticism that can not be resolved is when land managers with misinformation and misconceptions about Geocaching refuse to work with local Geoachers to reach a reasonable accommodation.

 

There are many places that have formal and reasonable Geocaching policies, BLM, National Forest Service, Pennsylvania State Park and Forest Dept., and many other state and county agencies. They learned to work with local Geoachers maybe you should do the same.

 

I'm not directly managing any lands, I am however involved with several land management agencies.

SJRWMD has more resources than most of the agencies combined in this area.Not many agencies can afford to devote the resources that the WMD does, to recreational activities. Most of the agencies rely heavily on volunteers and their ability to self police themselves, to ensure the viability of their programs.

 

I would be interested in finding more information about the vetting process that caches receive, before they are listed. I will post this under another heading.

 

Thank you for the links

 

Who says you have to recommend anything to anybody? If you feel you're taking such a huge risk by introducing someone else to this hobby, then just don't do it. If you don't feel comfortable associating your name with Geocaching, then don't.

 

I'm actively persuing groups to use an underutilised area in the hopes that if enough people show interest in the area, for appropriate uses, it will receive the funding it deserves.This area currently has very one sided (equestrian) support. Besides any group that would pick up litter, is desperately needed in this county.

[magellan315]

If people have to resort to "poking" out a cache in a relatively large area, with a stick as I did, and it appeared to me, at the cache site, that I was not the only one to do this.

To be honest in six years of Geocaching I have never heard of anyone having to engage in a six inch grid search. Lets face it, you had trouble finding a cache resorted to an extreme measure and now you think others did it as well. I looked at the cache log and there were some DNF's, no different from most caches, and no mention of extreme poking. Your experience is only based on 11 caches. Most people would walk away after 30 minutes of using thier eyes with the occasional poke. The only one who has made a great impact in finding this cache is you.

 

SJRWMD has more resources than most of the agencies combined in this area.Not many agencies can afford to devote the resources that the WMD does, to recreational activities. Most of the agencies rely heavily on volunteers and their ability to self police themselves, to ensure the viability of their programs.

Then I should introduce you to the County Park system I work with who has very limited resources, allows Geocaching, as long as you file a no fee permit, and uses "volunteers and their ability to self police themselves, to ensure the viability of their programs". There are many other agencies with similar issues and work with the local Geoaching community.

 

I'm actively persuing groups to use an underutilised area in the hopes that if enough people show interest in the area, for appropriate uses, it will receive the funding it deserves.This area currently has very one sided (equestrian) support. Besides any group that would pick up litter, is desperately needed in this county.

PLEASE contact the two local Geoaching groups, maybe they can help you overcome these issues you seem to have. As well as help you with creating an effective Geoaching program.

Edited March 5, 2007 by magellan315

[+gof1]

I'm actively persuing groups to use an underutilised area in the hopes that if enough people show interest in the area, for appropriate uses, it will receive the funding it deserves.This area currently has very one sided (equestrian) support. Besides any group that would pick up litter, is desperately needed in this county.

 

We have a parcel of land owned by the county parks department that is "unimproved" and used primarily by horse riders. There are several caches in place. The cachers do much less damage than the horses. When the trails are wet the horses churn up the mud and wreak havoc on the trails. Not that I want to stop the horses, just an observation comparing the two.

As for the litter you may want to look at a CITO event. Geocachers are well aware that they need to "Give Back" to the parks they love. CITO ,Cache In Trash Out, is one of our favorite ways to do this. A CITO event gets a bunch of geocachers together to clean up a park, or other area in need of such attention.

I think you may want to attend and event cache in your area. You will get to meet many of the local cachers in person. It is much easier to have a conversation in person.

[+Markle]

I've been reading this thread for a while and as a relative newbie I thought I'd chime in a little here, but not on the topic of the hide.

 

I heard about geocaching last year and did a little research into it. My girlfriend ended up getting me a GPS for Christmas and now we're both addicted. She travels a lot and finds caches to kill the time. We like to cache together to spend time with each other. We sit around coming up with devious hides to place. We've never met any of the other local cachers but from the posts and hides we almost feel like we know some of them. This has been a great hobby for us and I sincerely hope that you don't let one bad experience spoils it for you.

 

And from your other perspective... Since I've started caching I've started a list of parks that I want to go to because of caching that I would never have known existed without the hobby. From my perspective I've gotten a new appreciation for the green spaces we have around us and taking care of them. I LOVE hitting the greenbelts and hiking and I LOVE finding new places through the game. I think geocaching would be great to add in your programs and I think it's a great way to let people know about the park systems we have. You could even make CITO part of the program. Just a thought.

 

I don't know if any of this is relevant but I just had to throw out my part as well. For Elisabeth and I this has been a GREAT hobby and a great introduction to all of the great parks and greenbelts around us. I hope you won't take this one bad experience and let it ruin the game for you.

 

Mark

[+briansnat]

'm actively persuing groups to use an underutilised area in the hopes that if enough people show interest in the area, for appropriate uses, it will receive the funding it deserves.This area currently has very one sided (equestrian) support. Besides any group that would pick up litter, is desperately needed in this county.

 

Many land managers have found that Geocaching is an excellent way to introduce people to underutilized areas. How about suggesting that the management of that area (or you) place a few caches in it. That way they can control the where it is hidden, the difficulty of the hide, and provide good hints, thus minimizing potential damage.

 

I've always had concerns about very difficult caches hidden in areas where extensive searching can cause damage. My fellow local geocachers are very good about making it all about the journey and the cache is usually an easy find when you get there. I think that's the way it should be.

 

I think the difficult ones should be confined areas with durable surfaces, or to places like dog poop parks and that roadside ditch where any geocaching impact would be negligible compared the damage already present.

Edited March 5, 2007 by briansnat

[+willy1970]

PutnamEco, how many more finds could you have made with the time you've wasted on this topic?

 

Just curious,

-Jeff

[+Wadcutter]

Land manager? That's what the neighbor calls his business. He mows lawns.

[+Stargazer22]

As a newbie to the game myself, I thought my opinions might also be helpful.

First and foremost, to me, it is of prime importance not to trample or damage any of the areas I have seen caches hidden in. This is also common sense as well as part of the 'rules'.

Whenever I look for a cache I keep in mind what my actions are doing to the landscape.

If I am in a deserted area and I am not damaging the landscape, I will look for longer for the cache.

If the area is more sensitive and has not been trampled down, I keep my time to look at a minimum.

At a certain point, if I have not found the cache, I determine that my impact on the area is more than it is worth and I give up for the day, log a DNF, and come back another day.

I think that as geocachers, it is our responsiblity to keep the balance between looking and damaging. I have been to caches where I looked for 30-40 minutes in the cache area while my wife went down the trail to look at the view or some other feature. Half of the time, when she comes back and is ready to leave, she spends 1-2 minutes looking and says, 'right there it is!".

She has an awesome geosense compared to mine but that doesn't deter in my enjoyment at all.

For us, the visit to the place is the real reward of geocaching. Finding the cache itself is of secondary importance to us. From what I see and hear from other cachers, this seems to be the trend.

In all hobbies, there will be some who are intent on the details and specifics of the activity. You can pick apart anything you want, but do you enjoy the activity? If you enjoy going to new places and seeing new things, then geocaching can play a part.

We have found several new places in an area where we have lived for over 22 years, and some were right under our noses all the time. We have learned new things about our local history that are not in any history books, not published on any sight-seeing maps, and no pamphlets exist for them.

Geocaching should be all about the places, not about the caches themselves.

Finding the cache is only a secondary goal. However, the presence of the cache helps many people to find these little out of the way places that are usually well known by the locals, but not publicized.

Spending 5-6 hours doing anything that is fruitless spells disappointment and disaster for any reasonable person. I would not reccomend wasting 5-6 hours of time on anything you do not enjoy at the time.

Especially being a newbie, like me, I would suggest you limit your searches to a period of time that won't leave you terribly disappointed with a bitter taste for the game.

I would not condemn any game based on such a limited experience.

Sometimes the best games and hobbies are the ones that take patience, practice, and experience.

And yes, even the easy rated caches can sometimes be more difficult than we expect.

Until your wife comes along and finds it in 30 seconds!!

[Zoptrop]

Try hiding a cache of your own. You'll be amazed at the diverse opinions and comments you'll get on a cache. Some love it, some hate it, some are indifferent. It's amazing how differently people react to the exact same situation.

[+geomann1]

As a newbie, but active (97 finds since Christmas), it has been my experience that the most satisfying finds are the ones that took the most effort, including multiple trips. I love a challenge, as I suspect do most geocachers who are not obsessed with their count.

 

The caches that caused me the greatest annoyance are ones with bad coordinates or misleading info. These are the bad ones.

 

As far a being covered. In my opinion, it all depends on how it is done. A needle in a haystack hide is not a test of skill. Covering a container with twigs and leaves while giving accurate coordinates is a fair test.

[+StarBrand]

IMHO - about 20% of caches are under-rated. About 20% of caches are over-rated. About 50% of my caches are under considerable leaves or sticks or rocks. I leave a note if I feel it is rated wrong. All I can do.

 

If it is difficulty 1 to 2.5, I will spend at most an hour on it. Log my DNF and go find another. This wasn't meant to be stressful on anybody.

 

No rule or law says you HAVE TO find any one particular cache.

 

I cache to spend time with my family and have fun. When it isn't fun and feels like work, I move along.

 

Welcome to our obsession.

[+Renegade Knight]

....I'm actively persuing groups to use an underutilised area in the hopes that if enough people show interest in the area, for appropriate uses, it will receive the funding it deserves.This area currently has very one sided (equestrian) support. Besides any group that would pick up litter, is desperately needed in this county.

 

That's an excellent use of geoaching. One thing you will find is that the closer to people and civilization a cache is, the more visits it gets. Conversly the further away it is, the less visits it gets. Overall the impact of a cache is normally fairly proportationate to the impact the area already see's. Geocaching can call attention to geocaching.

 

At least some Geocachers do start to get involved in some way with local land managers as a result of their activity bringing to their attention how scarce open space and recreational lands truly are.