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Cache Blown Up Again


kc8hnz
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1. Something like this happens monthly, if not more often. You don't hear about every incident in these forums.

 

2. PVC Pipe is probably at the top of the "bad idea" list for cache containers, especially in an area where muggles are likely to come across the cache, like alongside a road. That being said, bomb squads have had plenty of practice on tupperware as well.

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1. Something like this happens monthly, if not more often. You don't hear about every incident in these forums.

 

2. PVC Pipe is probably at the top of the "bad idea" list for cache containers, especially in an area where muggles are likely to come across the cache, like alongside a road. That being said, bomb squads have had plenty of practice on tupperware as well.

I agree. If you google for some choice key words you can come up with dozens of incidents.
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Upon arriving around 2 p.m., sheriff's personnel discovered a 3-inch piece of PVC pipe wrapped in camouflage duct tape with caps and a thick wire protruding from one end, the Monterey County sheriff's office reported.

 

Um, you make it LOOK like a bomb and you are surprised that it's TREATED like a bomb?

 

I think the hider on this one should have to pay the bomd-squad costs!

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Upon arriving around 2 p.m., sheriff's personnel discovered a 3-inch piece of PVC pipe wrapped in camouflage duct tape with caps and a thick wire protruding from one end, the Monterey County sheriff's office reported.

 

Um, you make it LOOK like a bomb and you are surprised that it's TREATED like a bomb?

 

I think the hider on this one should have to pay the bomd-squad costs!

 

Agreed. You wonder what some people are thinking. <_<

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Upon arriving around 2 p.m., sheriff's personnel discovered a 3-inch piece of PVC pipe wrapped in camouflage duct tape with caps and a thick wire protruding from one end, the Monterey County sheriff's office reported.

 

Um, you make it LOOK like a bomb and you are surprised that it's TREATED like a bomb?

 

I think the hider on this one should have to pay the bomd-squad costs!

 

Did you see the last line??? He/she may have to!!

 

BTW: A wire sticking out of the end of a pipe bomb needs to be ATTACHED to something to make it blow up.

 

And also:

 

its_not_a.jpg

 

Does anyone here see anything worth blowing up???

 

--MGb

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Upon arriving around 2 p.m., sheriff's personnel discovered a 3-inch piece of PVC pipe wrapped in camouflage duct tape with caps and a thick wire protruding from one end, the Monterey County sheriff's office reported.

 

Um, you make it LOOK like a bomb and you are surprised that it's TREATED like a bomb?

 

I think the hider on this one should have to pay the bomd-squad costs!

 

Did you see the last line??? He/she may have to!!

 

BTW: A wire sticking out of the end of a pipe bomb needs to be ATTACHED to something to make it blow up.

 

And also:

 

Does anyone here see anything worth blowing up???

 

--MGb

 

No, a wire sticking out of a pipe bomb need only be touched to activate the battery-operated detonator inside, and the hand of a random tree-trimmer might be worth blwing up to the psychopath that plants bombs!

 

Making the assumption that something out of the ordinary is NOT a bomb wins you the Darwin Award!

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Upon arriving around 2 p.m., sheriff's personnel discovered a 3-inch piece of PVC pipe wrapped in camouflage duct tape with caps and a thick wire protruding from one end, the Monterey County sheriff's office reported.

 

Um, you make it LOOK like a bomb and you are surprised that it's TREATED like a bomb?

 

I think the hider on this one should have to pay the bomd-squad costs!

We have bomb squads because of bombs. Not because of caches that look like bombs. A lot of things needed to happen to make this responce.

 

First we had to have people really trying to blow things up.

Then we need the experts to tell us non experts to call things in because the experts can't be everywhere.

Then we need random and innocent things that happen to look like bombs to people.

(key point, people going about their lives don't cause problems, this needs to be by defintion, because the problem is the real deal, not Joe SixPack)

Then we need Joe Citizen to call something he doesn't understand in.

Then we have to have the authorities decide 'lets send the bomb squad'.

Then the bomb squad comes and does it's job.

Then pepole whine about a false alarm that's created by the very fact we have encouraged the use of the phone and the bomb squad.

 

I've had my caches reported. They sent out the Narcotics officer. I had ZERO control over that. Why narcotics and not the bomb squad?

 

The guy did nothing wrong, bombs look like backpacks, tupperware, flashlights, briefcases, laptops and everthing else. They look like the same thing as caches becaues they do the same thing we do. Use the materials at hand. I do not want to have false alarms charged to a person not meaning to cause any harm.

 

By all means charge haoxes, the real deal. But don't charge the practice runs. The day they invented the bomb squad and asked people to report things false alarms became nothing more than good practice.

 

Oh and given the stupid things that get reported if a pink fluffy bunny had been reported as 'odd' they still would have came. I've read about exotic foods, flashlights, whoopie cushions, laptops, a box with shoes and other personal effects. The list goes on. I don't want to start setting a precident.

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If you do set a precident then to the list above.

 

A false alarm is found to be something stupid.

A grandstanding sheriff says "What a waste of taxpayer money! We will prosecute this guy to the full extent of the law"

The government catches wind of all the wasted money and passes a law allowing false alarms to be billed to the person causing them.

Now the law of unintended consequenses kicks in as Joe Citizen is charged for random stupid things. Like forgetting his laptop at the courthouse (that would never happen...) Or an officer leaving behind his flashlight. OR a guy who just bought the book about making your own PVC furnature with a bunch of PVC pipe in the back seat of his car...

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....

Does anyone here see anything worth blowing up???

 

--MGb

 

Per the handy dandy guide of terrorist targets, rural areas and rural highways are targets.

 

To back up what TAR Said, Once called the bomb squad has to treat anything reported as a bomb until positively proven it's not. They will always err on the side of caution.

 

Sheriff's (and I haven't read this article to know if it's the Sheriff...) almost always NEVER say. "We have asked the public to report anything suspicius, we got a call, investigted, erred on the side of caution, and thankfuly it was a negative result giving our guys much needed pratice for the real thing. A negative result is a risk of doing business, the public should remain vigulant, but go about their lives as best as they can in times like these".

 

Nope. They gotta grandstand.

 

Edit:

Just read the article. What a waste of a good rant. It was a reasonable article and no evidence of a grandstanding sheriff was seen anywhere. Cool. My appologies to this sheriff.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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...I've heard of it happening before, but never in my area. How offen does this happen?

I think Lep's close on how often a cache is blown up. My work posts all news articles they can find that relate to transporation on their intranet. I read about virtually everthing happening in Idaho, a lot of the surrounding states and snippets of the country.

 

You would be amazed at what's reported and responded too. I keep a file at work Just In Case.

People forget packages (gifts) at the aiport with amazing regularity.

Hoaxes are called in for no better reason than they are mad the bus left on time and they were late.

Every now and then the real thing is found. A propane tank along side a highway rigged to explode with nails attached to it somehow. 20,000 cars may have driven by that before it was found. 20,000 and one 1 may have been the unlucky driver.

 

Bomb squads do have an important job, they exist for a very real reason. I do not envy a sheriff who oversee's them, I do not wish to trade places with these guys. My rants focus on keeping things like geocaching viable because no harm was meant. There are things that can be done to minimize this problem. I even put together a class on it (that didn't go as well as I'd of liked) to see if it was something that could be replicated by other groups.

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Upon arriving around 2 p.m., sheriff's personnel discovered a 3-inch piece of PVC pipe wrapped in camouflage duct tape with caps and a thick wire protruding from one end, the Monterey County sheriff's office reported.

 

Um, you make it LOOK like a bomb and you are surprised that it's TREATED like a bomb?

 

I think the hider on this one should have to pay the bomd-squad costs!

 

Did you see the last line??? He/she may have to!!

 

BTW: A wire sticking out of the end of a pipe bomb needs to be ATTACHED to something to make it blow up.

 

And also:

 

Does anyone here see anything worth blowing up???

 

--MGb

 

No, a wire sticking out of a pipe bomb need only be touched to activate the battery-operated detonator inside, and the hand of a random tree-trimmer might be worth blwing up to the psychopath that plants bombs!

 

Making the assumption that something out of the ordinary is NOT a bomb wins you the Darwin Award!

 

Hmm...I see your point...I guess you're just more devious than I. Or more explosively inclined in which case...eeek...

 

--MGb

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I do like things that go boom!

 

When growing up in the sixties I spent a lot of time with an uncle who was an Explosives Ordinance Disposal (EOD) Officer in the Army. He taught me some interesting and amusing things.

 

In later years he was in charge of disposing of huge bunkers full of WWII, Korean and Vietnam- era explosives at Fort McClellan ordinance depot and brought some interesting things to our lake place to, ah, dispose of!

 

We would take a Jeep with a mounted 50-caliber machine gun out to Pelham Range and shoot at CONEX containers of old ordinance until they left a big hole in the ground.

 

Can't do any of that today.

 

I wish this whole bomb thing wasn't such a part of the American pshyche, but it is.

 

I rigged one cache with explosives and that worked well, but I don't think with the public sensitivity today that I would do it again.

 

This was a night cache in the forest behind an old abandoned Civil War-era cemetery way out in the Alabama backwoods. I got word that a friend, a youth minister at his church, was taking a busload of his teenage kids to find it at midnight one pre-Halloween night.

 

I went in at dark and set up an ambush; wired the cache to a box set in a nearby clearing filled with 1500 bottle rockets so they would all go off when the cache (a rubber human head hung in a tree) was moved.

 

Then I used nylon line with battery packs and roller micro-switches to make trip wires crossing all the likely paths of egress, leaving the path in open, and wired them to flash and bang type fireworks.

 

While I was rigging the cache and trip wires two moms walked in, then three more at sepaerate times - all with the idea of scaring their kids who would be on the bus! They pitched in and helped set up, then found a place to hide and wait.

 

I made myself a hide a few feet away and waited. I wish I had a movie camera! The kids followed six sets of glowing eyes (reflector tacks) through the woods, found the cache, waited till everyone caught up so they could find and see it before it was moved - then one reached for it and the world around them lit up and started exploding! They ran in every direction, only to trip the other fireworks!

 

Then the moms jumped out to complete their surprise!

 

It was a huge success and everyone loved it, the story is retold at events to this day, but with the fears and worries rampant today I wouldn't do it again.

 

As a Reviewer I later had a prolonged argument with a cacher who wanted to place a cache that was a fake set of 3 sticks of TNT in a cemetary at the edge of an airport runway. I think he wanted to call it "It's da bomb!" or some such. I couldn't allow it, of course, and Groundspeak wouldn't either when he appealed my decision.

 

It made me think of my childhood; In the '60s defused hand granade casings, bazooka rounds, mortar shells and all sorts of real military gear could be bought at any Army/Navy store and were the staple of our neighborhood war games.

 

Too bad that there are enough real nutcases out there that they can spoil the fun for all of us!

 

A kid walking down the street with a grenade casing today causes widespread panic... yet I had one on my desk at school for a pencil holder!

 

With the media trying to keep all of us on the edge of panic just so we'll keep watching it's a wonder to me MORE caches don't get blown up!

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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A couple questions????

 

Q: How many REAL BOMBS are found every year? Especially in such locations?

 

Q: With such incidents becoming increasingly common, shouldn't law enforcement be aware of geocaching and the nature of cache containers? If so, is it so difficult to take the Lat/Long of the suspect container and plug them into a geocaching.com search? That could save a lot of aggrivation!

 

Q: How many geocachers have been blown up by bombs that they mistake as geocaches?

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The problem is that we can all plant caches that dont have to look like a bomb. How would we all like it if Geocaching was made illegal because of too much time and money being wasted going out to blow up suspicious containers. Theres plenty of styles of things that can be hidden that dont have to make 95% of the people think "wow, that looks like a bomb, better call the experts" Plus, why would anyone want to put a suspicious looking cache in such a high traffic area. If it wa put away from populatged or high traffic areas, Im sure it wouldnt have made such a fuss. Common sense? Or lack of it?

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I'm trying to figure out why they would think that somebody would stick a bomb in a tree in the middle of nowhere in the first place....

 

745d03e3-420b-46d2-a705-f6a6a0d2cab9.jpg

 

About 2 years ago a real bomb was found close to this cache. Basically in the middle of nowhere, off trail in a little used park. Why? Who knows. They never caught the culprit. It was a pipe with wires sticking out of it.

 

de52ddd0-f20e-4f7d-a889-574582c87380.jpg

Edited by briansnat
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I wonder if it is time to edit the listing guidelines again. PVC pipe caches are a bad idea and perhaps they should be banned altogether. I don't think anyone would miss finding a PVC pipe cache. It is controversial to single out a container type but IMHO hiding a pipe cache is as bad as hiding a cache next to the railroad tracks or government building. Who seriously thinks it is a good idea to allow pipe caches to be hidden these days?

 

Most cachers don't read the forums so they don't see the monthly reports of bomb squads acting on caches. The guidelines mention labeling the container. However, I couldn't find anything in the guidelines recommending against the use of containers that look like a security risk. Of course, a Lock-n-Lock could be explosive...

 

The public must think we're a bunch of idiots for hiding dangerous-looking objects just to play our game. Why risk giving geocaching bad PR by allowing pipe caches?

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I wonder if it is time to edit the listing guidelines again. PVC pipe caches are a bad idea and perhaps they should be banned altogether. I don't think anyone would miss finding a PVC pipe cache. It is controversial to single out a container type but IMHO hiding a pipe cache is as bad as hiding a cache next to the railroad tracks or government building. Who seriously thinks it is a good idea to allow pipe caches to be hidden these days?

 

Most cachers don't read the forums so they don't see the monthly reports of bomb squads acting on caches. The guidelines mention labeling the container. However, I couldn't find anything in the guidelines recommending against the use of containers that look like a security risk. Of course, a Lock-n-Lock could be explosive...

 

The public must think we're a bunch of idiots for hiding dangerous-looking objects just to play our game. Why risk giving geocaching bad PR by allowing pipe caches?

You can put all kinds of stuff in the guidelines, but like the forums most people don't read them. We need to police ourselves better than we do. If you find a PVC pipe cache contact the cache owner and voice your concerns.

 

This last weekend we had a cache blown up in the Dallas area. It was attached to a drive up mail box - USPS property. 6 cachers either found or hunted for the cache and said nothing about the illegal placement. If someone, *anyone*, would have spoken up the situation could have been avoided. As it is, geocaching has a black eye and the cache hider is facing possible criminal and civil charges. <_<

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I wonder if it is time to edit the listing guidelines again. PVC pipe caches are a bad idea and perhaps they should be banned altogether. I don't think anyone would miss finding a PVC pipe cache. It is controversial to single out a container type but IMHO hiding a pipe cache is as bad as hiding a cache next to the railroad tracks or government building. Who seriously thinks it is a good idea to allow pipe caches to be hidden these days?

 

Most cachers don't read the forums so they don't see the monthly reports of bomb squads acting on caches. The guidelines mention labeling the container. However, I couldn't find anything in the guidelines recommending against the use of containers that look like a security risk. Of course, a Lock-n-Lock could be explosive...

 

The public must think we're a bunch of idiots for hiding dangerous-looking objects just to play our game. Why risk giving geocaching bad PR by allowing pipe caches?

 

I think that isn't practical. PVC doesn't make for particularly good containers, and it does set off more than its fair share of bomb scares, but it isn't inherently problematic. If you're going to ban PVC, you should probably ban ammo cans and anything covered in camoflage tape while you're at it. All of these things are apparently "suspicious" to the muggles that report them.

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If you're going to ban PVC, you should probably ban ammo cans and anything covered in camoflage tape while you're at it. All of these things are apparently "suspicious" to the muggles that report them.

I don't think a pill bottle covered in camo tape or an ammo can set off as many red flags as a section of pipe. I totally understand where you are coming from though. The guidelines are like EULAs. I'm sending this farther off-topic, but I want to raise the prospect that some cachers may not report problem caches because of the fear of being tagged cache police and getting blackballed in their caching community. To that argument, I say contact the reviewer and let them sort it out. You don't have to worry about getting into an argument with the cache owner over whether or not their cache is inappropriate.
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I wonder if it is time to edit the listing guidelines again. PVC pipe caches are a bad idea and perhaps they should be banned altogether. I don't think anyone would miss finding a PVC pipe cache. It is controversial to single out a container type but IMHO hiding a pipe cache is as bad as hiding a cache next to the railroad tracks or government building. Who seriously thinks it is a good idea to allow pipe caches to be hidden these days?

 

Then you'd have to ban tupperware caches because most of the caches that have been blown up by the bomb squad were seemingly innocuous looking plastic containers.

 

Any cache hidden in an inappropriate place and discovered by the wrong person can cause the bomb squad to be called out. I agree that PVC pipe caches are a bit more sinister looking and probably more likely to generate alarm, but as long as they are hidden where they won't accidently be stumbled on by non geocachers they don't present any more of an issue than any other container.

 

I would discourage people from using them, but not because they look like bombs. Its because I've yet to find a dry one yet. They leak.

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I wonder if it is time to edit the listing guidelines again. PVC pipe caches are a bad idea and perhaps they should be banned altogether. >>>> SNIP<<<<< Who seriously thinks it is a good idea to allow pipe caches to be hidden these days?>>>>>SNIP

 

Just because it is made of PVC does not mean it looks like a pipe bomb.

 

I have a cache that is made out of PVC GCRXT2 - 2,259,040

 

I get lot's of positive response on this one and several people have added it to a "Favorites" List

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If you're going to ban PVC, you should probably ban ammo cans and anything covered in camoflage tape while you're at it. All of these things are apparently "suspicious" to the muggles that report them.

I don't think a pill bottle covered in camo tape or an ammo can set off as many red flags as a section of pipe. I totally understand where you are coming from though. The guidelines are like EULAs. I'm sending this farther off-topic, but I want to raise the prospect that some cachers may not report problem caches because of the fear of being tagged cache police and getting blackballed in their caching community. To that argument, I say contact the reviewer and let them sort it out. You don't have to worry about getting into an argument with the cache owner over whether or not their cache is inappropriate.

 

If someone starts thinking its a bomb, then it becomes a bomb, doesn't matter what color or shape it is.

 

Having said that I also think we should ban any caches that are black and shaped like bowlings balls and have white lettering on the side that say 'BOMB'. These are certaninly going to mistaken for the wrong thing.

suicide_lrg.jpg

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The problem is that we can all plant caches that dont have to look like a bomb. How would we all like it if Geocaching was made illegal because of too much time and money being wasted going out to blow up suspicious containers. Theres plenty of styles of things that can be hidden that dont have to make 95% of the people think "wow, that looks like a bomb, better call the experts" Plus, why would anyone want to put a suspicious looking cache in such a high traffic area. If it wa put away from populatged or high traffic areas, Im sure it wouldnt have made such a fuss. Common sense? Or lack of it?

I think you hit the issue. It's one of perception. The people calling in things as suspicious are everyday people. They don't know what a bomb looks like but they do know what they think is odd. When the press gets the story it helps a lot of the object is not a stereotypical bomb look alike.

 

I've never understood high traffic area caches to begin with, let alone making them out of some containers. There is no reason to make things harder on ourselves as cachers by effectivly guranteeing increased numbers of incidents.

 

The first rule. Hide them so muggles won't find them.

The second rule, don't use a stereotypical bomb looking container.

The second rule, use a container appropriate for the location.

The third rule, paint over the military markings and mark the container as a cache.

 

Only the first rule prevents incidents. The rest help make them less severe.

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I think you hit the issue. It's one of perception. The people calling in things as suspicious are everyday people. They don't know what a bomb looks like but they do know what they think is odd. When the press gets the story it helps a lot of the object is not a stereotypical bomb look alike.

 

I've never understood high traffic area caches to begin with, let alone making them out of some containers. There is no reason to make things harder on ourselves as cachers by effectivly guranteeing increased numbers of incidents.

 

The first rule. Hide them so muggles won't find them.

The second rule, don't use a stereotypical bomb looking container.

The second rule, use a container appropriate for the location.

The third rule, paint over the military markings and mark the container as a cache.

 

Only the first rule prevents incidents. The rest help make them less severe.

Ummm, this cache didn't really violate any of those rules.

 

Some would say that it violated #2 (the first #2), but it looked no more like a bomb than any other item that we would hide.

 

It might have violated #3, I don't know. It might not have said 'geocache' on the side for all I know. I also don't know if that would have saved it.

 

I guess we could all switch to hide-a-keys, fake rocks, and film cans...

Edited by sbell111
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I think you hit the issue. It's one of perception. The people calling in things as suspicious are everyday people. They don't know what a bomb looks like but they do know what they think is odd. When the press gets the story it helps a lot of the object is not a stereotypical bomb look alike.

 

I've never understood high traffic area caches to begin with, let alone making them out of some containers. There is no reason to make things harder on ourselves as cachers by effectivly guranteeing increased numbers of incidents.

 

The first rule. Hide them so muggles won't find them.

The second rule, don't use a stereotypical bomb looking container.

The second rule, use a container appropriate for the location.

The third rule, paint over the military markings and mark the container as a cache.

 

Only the first rule prevents incidents. The rest help make them less severe.

Ummm, this cache didn't really violate any of those rules.

 

Some would say that it violated #2 (the first #2), but it looked no more like a bomb than any other item that we would hide.

 

It might have violated #3, I don't know. It might not have said 'geocache' on the side for all I know. I also don't know if that would have saved it.

 

I guess we could all switch to hide-a-keys, fake rocks, and film cans...

 

How do you blow up a rock??

 

--MGb

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A few random thoughts:

 

How big is geocaching in Israel? That is a society with bombings, and bomb awareness, deeply ingrained in its collective psyche. If much caching is done there, what do their containers look like, where are they placed, and how are they marked?

 

*Someday* it could happen - a bomb placed in a container designed to look like a cache. Where will this game be then?

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A few random thoughts:

 

How big is geocaching in Israel? That is a society with bombings, and bomb awareness, deeply ingrained in its collective psyche. If much caching is done there, what do their containers look like, where are they placed, and how are they marked?

 

*Someday* it could happen - a bomb placed in a container designed to look like a cache. Where will this game be then?

 

We'll not be affected beyond a few days of media 'outrage'. Lots of DUI fatalities and injuries every day and we don't ban cars!

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*Someday* it could happen - a bomb placed in a container designed to look like a cache. Where will this game be then?
We'll not be affected beyond a few days of media 'outrage'. Lots of DUI fatalities and injuries every day and we don't ban cars!
On the other hand, we're not all running out to buy Ford Pintos. I suspect that if a few caches were actually booby trapped, most people would stop playing.
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A few random thoughts:

 

How big is geocaching in Israel? That is a society with bombings, and bomb awareness, deeply ingrained in its collective psyche. If much caching is done there, what do their containers look like, where are they placed, and how are they marked?

 

*Someday* it could happen - a bomb placed in a container designed to look like a cache. Where will this game be then?

 

Europe has the same thing. Other than the idea of a hidden container the goals of geocachers and actual bombers are different. Thus the locations of hides are different. Europe has already cut their teath on all this crap. Terrorist types do learn. If they think a Fish symbol on the back of their Volvo while dressed in a three piece suite makes them look less suspicouse they will do it. If they thought a cache would cammo their bomb they will do it. Bomb squads already know this. Also classes on what to report teach this. It's not the looks of the situation it's the goofy weird behavior.

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If, in fact, tupperware containers are as or more likely than PVC containers to be reported as bombs, then it would be silly to ban PVC containers in a knee-jerk reaction.

 

However, one way or the other, this incident points out yet again that containers of all types that are large enough to arouse suspicion should have the words "GEOCACHE" written on the outside.

 

Which reminds me of an amusing anecdote: A few weeks after the anthrax business occurred in 2001, we received a memo from some administrator at the University where I work. The memo highlighted what a suspicious package might look like and outlined what one should do if such a suspicious package was found. According to the memo, if we found a package with the words "ANTHRAX" written on it, we should immediately alert the proper authorities.... :(:D:D

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I have read most of the posts here and think there is fundamental issue that is being missed.

 

I believe that most if not all these bomb scares could be alleviated by simply notifying the local Law enforcement agencies that you are placing a cache, where it is and what it is.

 

I haven't placed alot of caches however when I do I always first check with the local agency that has responsibilty for that area and if there is any issues or what sort of notification they would require. A couple of times while doing this they said it would be a good idea to let the Local Law Enforcement Agency know about the hide. At least this way if they see people looking suspicious in the area or get a call from a Local resident they are aware of it.

 

Secondly this is a real Danger and something that can't be taken lightly. If you were a person or an Officer of the Law and saw something hidden that was camoed and had no idea what it was wouldn't you be suspicious??

 

Of course this has gotten worse because of incidents that have happened in our world.

 

Personally I feel communicating and informing local Agencies is time well spent to decrease these sort of issues.

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If, in fact, tupperware containers are as or more likely than PVC containers to be reported as bombs, then it would be silly to ban PVC containers in a knee-jerk reaction.

 

However, one way or the other, this incident points out yet again that containers of all types that are large enough to arouse suspicion should have the words "GEOCACHE" written on the outside.

 

Which reminds me of an amusing anecdote: A few weeks after the anthrax business occurred in 2001, we received a memo from some administrator at the University where I work. The memo highlighted what a suspicious package might look like and outlined what one should do if such a suspicious package was found. According to the memo, if we found a package with the words "ANTHRAX" written on it, we should immediately alert the proper authorities.... :(:D:D

Your point that all caches should have 'GEOCACHE' printed on them is successfully countered by your own 'ANTHRAX' analogy. Marking our caches is not the answer.

 

This weekend, I found four caches in ammo boxes. Three had there military markings (although one of those did have 'Geocache' scribbled on it in sharpie. The other was painted white, but had no writing on it. All had been in place for some time less than 20 feet from muggles.

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I wonder if it is time to edit the listing guidelines again. PVC pipe caches are a bad idea and perhaps they should be banned altogether. I don't think anyone would miss finding a PVC pipe cache. It is controversial to single out a container type but IMHO hiding a pipe cache is as bad as hiding a cache next to the railroad tracks or government building. Who seriously thinks it is a good idea to allow pipe caches to be hidden these days?

 

Most cachers don't read the forums so they don't see the monthly reports of bomb squads acting on caches. The guidelines mention labeling the container. However, I couldn't find anything in the guidelines recommending against the use of containers that look like a security risk. Of course, a Lock-n-Lock could be explosive...

 

The public must think we're a bunch of idiots for hiding dangerous-looking objects just to play our game. Why risk giving geocaching bad PR by allowing pipe caches?

 

See the problem is, I don't think that all PVC pipe caches are bad and look like a bomb. I found one last weekend that was PVC pipe hung on a rope down a well 75ft or so. i don't think that this particular cache could use any other container other than PVC pipe. It's also one of my favorite finds to date.

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... I believe that most if not all these bomb scares could be alleviated by simply notifying the local Law enforcement agencies that you are placing a cache, where it is and what it is. ...
I think that you will see diminishing returns with this plan.

 

Also, it is similar to the issue of permission. Just because you tell one LEO about the cache, doesn't mean all the others will get the message and understand it. How many of your friends have you explained geocaching to and received a blank stare in return?

Edited by sbell111
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See the problem is, I don't think that all PVC pipe caches are bad and look like a bomb. I found one last weekend that was PVC pipe hung on a rope down a well 75ft or so. i don't think that this particular cache could use any other container other than PVC pipe. It's also one of my favorite finds to date.

I've found some PVC caches that were convincingly disguised as logs.

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QUOTE(Silny Jako Bek @ Dec 21 2006, 11:28 AM)

 

If, in fact, tupperware containers are as or more likely than PVC containers to be reported as bombs, then it would be silly to ban PVC containers in a knee-jerk reaction.

 

However, one way or the other, this incident points out yet again that containers of all types that are large enough to arouse suspicion should have the words "GEOCACHE" written on the outside.

 

Which reminds me of an amusing anecdote: A few weeks after the anthrax business occurred in 2001, we received a memo from some administrator at the University where I work. The memo highlighted what a suspicious package might look like and outlined what one should do if such a suspicious package was found. According to the memo, if we found a package with the words "ANTHRAX" written on it, we should immediately alert the proper authorities....

 

Your point that all caches should have 'GEOCACHE' printed on them is successfully countered by your own 'ANTHRAX' analogy. Marking our caches is not the answer.

 

The point is that reasonable precautions should be taken to let people know that a container is a geocache. Obviously, if a terrorist wanted to place a bomb in an ammo box marked "Geocache", we could do nothing about that. But no one would actually plant a bomb with the words "BOMB" written on it...

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... I believe that most if not all these bomb scares could be alleviated by simply notifying the local Law enforcement agencies that you are placing a cache, where it is and what it is. ...
I think that you will see diminishing returns with this plan.

 

Also, it is similar to the issue of permission. Just because you tell one LEO about the cache, doesn't mean all the others will get the message and understand it. How many of your friends have you explained geocaching to and received a blank stare in return?

 

I can only speak from personnal experience and when I have done this it has been well received by the local Authorities.

 

I have no control over intercommunication between Local Law Enforcement agencies. Only thing I can do is inform the Local agency. Communication is a big Problem these days. That issue will never change. However any bit of information I can provide is better then none.

Edited by knoffer
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... I believe that most if not all these bomb scares could be alleviated by simply notifying the local Law enforcement agencies that you are placing a cache, where it is and what it is. ...
I think that you will see diminishing returns with this plan.

 

Also, it is similar to the issue of permission. Just because you tell one LEO about the cache, doesn't mean all the others will get the message and understand it. How many of your friends have you explained geocaching to and received a blank stare in return?

I can only speak from personnal experience and when I have done this it has been well received by the local Authorities.

A while back, a thread was started that discussed this very idea. In practice, it didn't work. As I recall, the cacher was told by the police that they didn't want to know where every single cache is. Further, I suspect that you live in an area which has much fewer cachers, caches, and LEOs than some of us. Could you imagine going to the police 2000 times to give them this information?

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The point is that reasonable precautions should be taken to let people know that a container is a geocache. Obviously, if a terrorist wanted to place a bomb in an ammo box marked "Geocache", we could do nothing about that. But no one would actually plant a bomb with the words "BOMB" written on it...
The thing is, Joe Public 1) doesn't know what geocaching is and 2) isn't likely to get close enough to the object to read the writing. Therefore, he's going to call the cops and report it. Once that happens, training takes over leading to the inevitable conclusion of a destroyed cache because most LEOs are going to default to the more cautious approach and destroy the container, rather than take the chance that some terrorist scribbled 'geocache' on his bomb.
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