Opinions Needed - Posted Coords on Caches

[+bahama97]

I am under the impression that a hider is supposed to take the coords at the place of the cache, meaning that you stand as close to the cache as possible & take a coordinate reading. I've heard some other cachers say that as long as they take the coords within 30 ft or less of the cache, then that is acceptable. Just curious as to the thoughts of others on this.

 

Thanks!

[Clan Riffster]

Straight from the guidelines:

 

Step 3 - Placing Your Cache

When you reach the location to place your cache, the hardest part (depending on the model of your GPS unit, the terrain, etc), is getting exact coordinates from your GPS unit. It all depends on how visible your cache is, but you'll need to get the coordinates as close as possible to the cache.

 

Some GPS units have the ability to do averaging, but if yours can't, the best suggestion is to take a waypoint, walk away from the location, then return and take another waypoint. Do this around 7-10 times, then pick the best waypoint (I've done this with a Garmin eTrex on a cache)

[+sbell111]

I believe that coords should be as accurate as possible. Bad coords do not add to my fun.

[Clan Riffster]

On a similar note, I've heard rumors that some cachers would intentionally post inaccurate coords to "add to the fun". If I ever found a cache like that, I would never hunt one hidden by that person again. On the other hand, the Staunch Defenders of Everything Lame might argue that it creates an even greater challenge, and like different flavors of ice cream, should be tolerated, if not out right embraced.

Edited December 1, 2006 by Clan Riffster

[Neos2]

The only time I would get cords at a distance from the cache is if that spot reflected the signal, making the cords worse next to the cache than a bit further off.

 

For example, if the cache was next to a wall and the wall caused the signal to be lost, I might stand a short distance away to get the cords---but then I would include that information on the cache page "Cords were taken x feet south of the cache"

[+Shop99er]

If I have to take coords from some distance off, I will also note that.

 

And, when I do get a set that I'm gonna use, I always put in the error at the time, and note that YMMV. If the error was under 6 feet (yes, it has happened) I won't note the error at all.

[+biosearch]

I have the good fortune of having access to a Trimble GeoXT with a BOB and post-processing software. Sub-meter accuracy. If I could get closer I would... I think that pretty much covers my opinion of the issue...

[+sbell111]

I believe that coords should be as accurate as possible. Bad coords do not add to my fun.

 

... On the other hand, the Staunch Defenders of Everything Lame might argue that it creates an even greater challenge, and like different flavors of ice cream, should be tolerated, if not out right embraced.

I thought I was a Staunch Defender of Everything Lame?

[+budd-rdc]

I am under the impression that a hider is supposed to take the coords at the place of the cache, meaning that you stand as close to the cache as possible & take a coordinate reading. I've heard some other cachers say that as long as they take the coords within 30 ft or less of the cache, then that is acceptable. Just curious as to the thoughts of others on this.

 

Thanks!

There are times where the cache is located next to obstruction that causes satellite signal to bounce or reflect, often referred to as "multipathing" so the coordinates CAN become inaccurate even if you are standing right there.

 

Cyclone fences, walls, trees (especially with large trunks), tall buildings, power lines, and metal structures are some known causes for bad coordinates. There are techniques to minimize this problem, like using the GPSr's averaging function for extended periods of time (like 15 minutes), or finding an area nearby with less obstructions, and measuring latitude and longitude separately. In any case, you still should go back and check to see if you can repeatedly go to the location with a set of coordinates you obtained.

[+gnbrotz]

On a similar note, I've heard rumors that some cachers would intentionally post inaccurate coords to "add to the fun". If I ever found a cache like that, I would never hunt one hidden by that person again. On the other hand, the Staunch Defenders of Everything Lame might argue that it creates an even greater challenge, and like different flavors of ice cream, should be tolerated, if not out right embraced.

 

And don't forget this argument (from an actual cache page):

 

Anyway, there aren't too many places to put a cache so how bad can it be??

 

[+wimseyguy]

I am under the impression that a hider is supposed to take the coords at the place of the cache, meaning that you stand as close to the cache as possible & take a coordinate reading.

You are correct.

I've heard some other cachers say that as long as they take the coords within 30 ft or less of the cache, then that is acceptable. Just curious as to the thoughts of others on this.

 

Thanks!

They are not.

PS It was nice to finally meet you at the event the other night.

[+Moose Mob]

Posting incorrect coordinates are not more fun for the finder, only for the hider. It's along the lines of putting shaving cream in someone's boots or dipping thier hand in warm water.

[+TotemLake]

I am under the impression that a hider is supposed to take the coords at the place of the cache, meaning that you stand as close to the cache as possible & take a coordinate reading. I've heard some other cachers say that as long as they take the coords within 30 ft or less of the cache, then that is acceptable. Just curious as to the thoughts of others on this.

 

Thanks!

You got good answers from above. I think the problem stems from the average error rate and some folks figure if they are within 30 feet while taking coordinates, this will fall within an acceptable error range. They don't take into account the combined error of position estimate between their GPS and their future seekers' GPS.

[+Harry Dolphin]

On a similar note, I've heard rumors that some cachers would intentionally post inaccurate coords to "add to the fun". If I ever found a cache like that, I would never hunt one hidden by that person again.

 

Did one of those. The coords were 170' off (by my reckoning). Other people noted that the coords had them down by the stream, whereas the cache is on top of the pile of discarded concrete road sections. (Yes. A scenic cache.) It was a multi, so I couldn't post the correct coords. I did mention the discrepancy in my log. And my log was deleted. Relogged SLTNLN. And I will not look for anymore of his caches.

[+DocDiTTo]

If coords are off too far, I simply post corrected ones in my log, and mention the problem. Sometimes the hiders are thankful for the input, sometimes not. I've had one person ask me to edit such a log because he didn't want the hide to be too easy.

 

I do my best to make sure my coords are as accurate as possible. I verify every hide on aerial maps using USAPhotoMaps as well as averaging with my GPSr. I've spent upwards of 20 minutes at one stage of a multi with 2 GPSr's once to get accurate coords when initial reports suggested they were off a bit. If you're hunting one of my caches, rest assured the coords will be dead on. It's a challenge to get perfect coords, and that's part of the fun of hiding.

[+Lighteye]

I believe that coords should be as accurate as possible. Bad coords do not add to my fun.

What he said.

 

Keep in mind the margin of error is +-30' as a rule of thumb. If on a bad day you take coords, and are actually 30' off, and I hunt for it on a bad day and I am 30' off, we could be 60' apart!!! In a thick patch of saw palmetto, that would be at least a good pint of blood and one large blue cloud forming over my head. PLEASE be as exact as possible.

[+Confucius' Cat]

On a similar note, I've heard rumors that some cachers would intentionally post inaccurate coords to "add to the fun". If I ever found a cache like that, I would never hunt one hidden by that person again. On the other hand, the Staunch Defenders of Everything Lame might argue that it creates an even greater challenge, and like different flavors of ice cream, should be tolerated, if not out right embraced.

I find it totally ludicrous that we as a society are being taught "tolerance" of shoddy practices and moral wrongdoing in the name of "to each his own". The words "outright embraced" really get my goat. Tolerance means bite your tongue and look the other way. That I can do. But to expect me to say wrong is as acceptable as right is going too far.

 

Analogizing one's honest best with deliberate deception is not like comparing "different flavours of ice cream", rather it is like comparing chocolate ice cream with frozen diarrhea.

 

Granted deliberately posting bad coordinates doesn't quite rate up there with flag burning or urinating on graves, but I see no need for the caching community to give tacit approval to deliberately misleading others in the community (puzzle and mystery cache being an exception- where deception is the theme and / or stated purpose).

 

It is a cache hider's duty to post the best coordinates he/she can. I for one, am willing to call intentionally bad coordinates "FOUL".

 

That being said however, I am one to give the benefit of the doubt. Even if a cacher frequently posts bad coordinates, I will assume he/she simply has bad equipment unless I find out otherwise. Intentionality is a tough call without solid evidence- such as a "confession".

[nonaeroterraqueous]

...rather it is like comparing chocolate ice cream with frozen diarrhea.

I hear that comparison at my work a lot. Can anyone guess what I do for a living?

 

We have a guy in our area with a reputation for bad coordinates. I don't think it's deliberate, but I'm saving those for when I'm all out of others' caches to find. He has a reputation for some other things too, but that's for another thread. Otherwise, he's certainly a nice enough guy....

 

I prefer to take a 100+ average with my GPS sitting on the cache or hanging directly over it. Then I find I still need to check it on google maps satellite imagery, and go back another day to double-check, because obstructions and other voodoo can systematically thwart even the biggest one-time average set.

[+TrailGators]

I find that most bad coordinates are caused by ignorance. Some people walk in look at the numbers on their GPS and write them down. I am appalled to hear that someone would post bad coords on purpose. I would boycott anybody's caches that did that. It is such a PITA when the coords are way off! Whenever the coords are way off, I always say something about it in my log!

[bug and snake]

On a similar note, I've heard rumors that some cachers would intentionally post inaccurate coords to "add to the fun".

Well, that kind of 'additions to the fun' rate right along with caching with a hot sausage up yer nose..... That's probably not a good idea either. (I say 'probably' coz I have yet to try it - may be a while before I do too!)

[+fizzymagic]

For example, if the cache was next to a wall and the wall caused the signal to be lost, I might stand a short distance away to get the cords---but then I would include that information on the cache page "Cords were taken x feet south of the cache"

When I have done this, I have adjusted the coords to the actual cache coords. There are several ways to do this. The easiest is to use a compass and get a bearing from the spot where you got good coords to the cache location, and then pace off the distance to the cache and project a waypoint. I'd be surprised if you can't do better than 6 feet that way.

 

A second method is to use Google Earth. Take very careful coords someplace recognizable in a satellite photo, within a hundred feet of the cache. Then plot the coords on Google Earth, and see how close they are to the spot where you took the photo. The difference, if you took good coords, will be the registration error for Google Earth. With that info, you can usually estimate the position of the cache to better than about 10 feet.

 

Using those techniques, multipath errors can be all but eliminated.

[4wheelin_fool]

I am under the impression that a hider is supposed to take the coords at the place of the cache, meaning that you stand as close to the cache as possible & take a coordinate reading. I've heard some other cachers say that as long as they take the coords within 30 ft or less of the cache, then that is acceptable. Just curious as to the thoughts of others on this.

 

Thanks!

Accuracy is the best policy. You can stand on top of the cache, and if you dont have a clear view of the sky, the coords will STILL be off by whatever accuracy the GPS reads. (which could be 30 feet or more)

[+Confucius' Cat]

...rather it is like comparing chocolate ice cream with frozen diarrhea.

I hear that comparison at my work a lot. Can anyone guess what I do for a living?

OMG! I just made that up! Nothing new under the sun I guess. I guess I heard it somewhere and don't remember.