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Phony logs?


briansnat
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I received a log for Helmut's Cache that mentioned the finder stayed on the trail all the way to the cache. It caught my attention because anybody who has been there knows its at least a 1/4 mile bushwack.

 

I looked at the guy's profile and his last 4 logs for caches in NJ and I think something's rotten in Denville.

 

So if you get logs from some dude from SC that look fishy you might want to check your logbooks.

Edited by briansnat
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I had eight logs for my caches in one day by a cacher called V&JP, each entry only saying "TNLN". I was sceptical, as my caches are not very easy and these were far apart, but I did nothing. Your raising this subject caused me to look for these entries, but they have all been deleted from my cache logs. I still have the messages in my deleted items folder in my mail box, but someone other than myself deleted them from the website. Does someone at Groundspeak monitor for this kind of suspicious activity? V&JP's profile is still active, but all reference to this cachers alleged very busy day on 10/8/06 are gone.

Edited by jonboy
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Hi Avroair!

I still lurk around occasionally, I seem to spend more time maintaining my existing caches than finding new ones.

 

Given that the cacher in question still has an account, it could be that they deleted the questionable logs themselves. The cacher looks like they have some legitimate finds, their last activity was the day after the "finds" in question were posted, this may have been a deletion of the "finds" posted the previous day. My question is would Groundspeak be able to pick up on this kind of suspicious activity without a heads up from the cache owner? Perhaps he logged "finds" on other caches that day and one of the other owners raised questions.

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This log reminded me of the logs by Electric Shavers who was logging fake finds all over the country a few years ago. I new he wasn't on the up and up when his log for a drive and dump in a very unappealing area said something like "Nice area & cache.The actual hike was not too difficult. Neat cache idea" .

 

When the description in the log is totally out of synch with the kind of cache, that doesn't pass the smell test. Also, when the searcher bypasses other easier caches in the area it makes me wonder about it. I haven't looked at the logbook for the cache yet, but I may get around to it this weekend. Time for a maint visit anyway.

Edited by briansnat
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My suspected bogus cache finder, "V&JP" is still at it. I finally figured out why I can't find his logs, he is backdating them months and in at least one case years. The most blatant one http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...54-4d6e7bf13143

was logged as a find dated over a year before he became a member and logged more than two years later. I know I can just delete this cachers finds, but how do I go about bringing this to the attention of Groundspeak?

Edited by jonboy
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Someone think to email them before sending out the lynch mob?

Could be they used to cache with someone else, or split off from a team, or a child that cached with their parents and got their own account, etc. Lots of legit reasons why someone might be backdating logs, and not everyone bothers to log the right date either. Look at any event or group caching together and I promise you will see all sorts of wrong log dates.

 

Might even be a "ghost cacher" who finally decided to track his finds online. I personally know several people who cache and have never ever logged online. One caches with other people. Another has had a GC.com account of his own for 5yrs and does sign the logbooks, but has never logged online. Maybe the logs *are* bogus, and then they should be deleted, but don't assume.

Edited by Mopar
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That was sound advice from Mopar, so far I have taken no action, other than ask for advice from this forum. In studying the logs further, I do note that most of them were logged on the same day as "Doghair Duo", and "Doghair Duo" mentions using four GPSrs for a find in one of their logs. If you are going to log multiple false finds, why stop at such a low number? It well could be that I have unfairly maligned a cacher. I am loath to approach a cacher with an accusation I cannot prove. I don't know why I should let it bother me, I haven't even been that obsessed with geocaching as of late.

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I had a bogus find on my Guardrail series soon after I placed them. Coincidentally, someone couldn't find one, so I checked on it. While there (it was still there), I checked to logs. This guy had not signed any of my five.

 

I e-mailed him, asking him politely if I had overlooked his log, and if he didn't actually find it, would he be willing to do the right thing. I wasn't going to delete his log, but a couple of days later, they all disappeared.

 

I guess it amazes me how people are more interested in the numbers than the hunt. Yes, the numbers are nice, but the hunt is what adds the numbers up.

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Mine was one of the caches "visited". The cacher had the same entry as the others listed (1 on one date, 4 on the next date). In fairness, knowing of course, that the cache was around .25 miles away from trailhead, I did a check. No log entry...no surprise. Deleted his entry...next day, he re-logs it with a date over a year ago and did so by the cutting/pasting method. I am going to delete his entry again and possibly submit all applicable info to Groundspeak for possible suspension, account closure or whatever they do under the circumstances.

Guess it takes all kinds to make the world go round!

The other "chuckle" was, he was supposed to be visiting family in the area. There are many other, easier caches nearby that no one would probably question. He even missed out on some very close by...if you are seeking numbers, you hit 'pockets' of caches and not piecemeal.

Oh well.

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The other "chuckle" was, he was supposed to be visiting family in the area. There are many other, easier caches nearby that no one would probably question. He even missed out on some very close by...if you are seeking numbers, you hit 'pockets' of caches and not piecemeal.

Oh well.

 

That's one thing I thought was fishy about the whole thing. To find Helmut's Cache from the most logical parking area he would have walked past two caches (like within 20 feet of each) and also bypassed another easy cache .1` mile away.

 

I haven't checked the logbook yet, but I will.

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were the other 2 caches traditional or other type?

 

Maybe he didnt have them in his gps? Or felt they were too ez?

 

Sorry for any typos, laptop acting up.

 

I do caches piecemeal as do several others I cache with. We hve gone after 3's & not touched 1's in the area, yet. Sometimes its due to not having the info, or the type or just the fact we want to hit certain caches or certain reasons & swag isnt one of them.

 

Somone gonna label me a amchair logger? Or a sockpuppet?

as a FYI I also do waymarks/points & benchmarks. Gonna call me an armchair logger on them also if I didnt take a digi pic of them?

 

I usually travel with my V in my vehicle & if a easy point pops up I may or may not stop for it, depends on whos with me.

 

Dont accuse people of things lest you want to have 4 fingers pointing back at you while you point a finger of blame.

 

Sheesh, dont people realize its a hobby & game & not life ending no matter what number is by their name? 1 or 100,000,000, it doesnt matter when you die.

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Just butting in to add my 2 cents.

 

I went out for my very first time today, after getting some good tips from the forum (thanks to those that responded) I went for easy caches that had been found within the last month. I was successful on both...but if I hadn't been I was more than prepared to come home and log a DNF.

 

My opinion is it's the fun of the search, if you don't find it don't log it. Reading some of the posts both on the NE forum and the main forum about people logging non-finds it really surprises me that people think it is ok to do that.

 

If you don't sign the log book, don't log it as found - easy enough.

 

p.s. I'm going out tomorrow too

(they say the first step is admitting you have a problem)

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were the other 2 caches traditional or other type?

 

Maybe he didnt have them in his gps? Or felt they were too ez?

 

The other two were traditional. The cache he "found" was 2.5/2.5. The caches he would have walked right past were 2/1.5 and 4.5/2. Not to mention the 1.5/1.5 cache that was only .3 mile away and the 2/3 multi that started right at the parking area.

 

Dont accuse people of things lest you want to have 4 fingers pointing back at you while you point a finger of blame.

 

This same person logged a find on a nearby cache of mine in Nov of 05. A three stage multi involving a 4 mile walk. He mentioned how nicely each stage was hidden and what a nice walk it was and how he used to live in the area. I never questioned it. Yesterday I decided to check the logbook. There was no entry from this person. Not on the date he claimed he found the cache or anywhere else in the book.

 

Klizich checked one of his caches where this fellow claimed a find. No log there either. So yes, I'm pointing fingers.

 

Oh and BTW when I point a finger, there are actually two pointing forward, the thumb and forefinger. The other three are rolled up and technically pointed slightly to the right. Hmmm, Avroair was standing slightly to the right of me at today's event. Guess I have some more logs to check :D.

 

Sheesh, dont people realize its a hobby & game & not life ending no matter what number is by their name? 1 or 100,000,000, it doesnt matter when you die.

 

Yep its only a game and its supposed to be fun. Its also is a game that relies largely on the honesty and good will of others. That's why cheating at it is so pathetic.

 

Logging phony finds like this is not harmless fun. When you log a find on a cache you are essentially telling the communtiy the cache is there. If by chance its not, others can waste their time and gas money looking for the cache and the owner might delay needed maintenance.

 

I've wasted my own time looking for a missing cache because people logged phony finds and I know one geocacher who was lured into a fruitless 100 mile round trip to search for a long missing cache because someone logged a phony find. Cheating at solotaire is harmless. Logging phony finds is screwing with other geocachers.

Edited by briansnat
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Sheesh, dont people realize its a hobby & game & not life ending no matter what number is by their name? 1 or 100,000,000, it doesnt matter when you die.

 

Dishonesty is the same no matter whether it's life or death or not. Rewarding dishonest behaviour only brews more dishonesty. It's not about reducing someone's numbers it about straightening out someone who cheats.

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Sheesh, dont people realize its a hobby & game & not life ending no matter what number is by their name? 1 or 100,000,000, it doesnt matter when you die.

 

Dishonesty is the same no matter whether it's life or death or not. Rewarding dishonest behaviour only brews more dishonesty. It's not about reducing someone's numbers it about straightening out someone who cheats.

Who are they cheating, really? Yeah, it's bogus to log a cache you didn't find, but so what? There's no prize for the person with the most finds in this game. I have more of an issue with people who don't log their DNF's. In my opinion, that has more potential for wasting someone's time than logging a bogus find.

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Sheesh, dont people realize its a hobby & game & not life ending no matter what number is by their name? 1 or 100,000,000, it doesnt matter when you die.

 

Dishonesty is the same no matter whether it's life or death or not. Rewarding dishonest behaviour only brews more dishonesty. It's not about reducing someone's numbers it about straightening out someone who cheats.

Who are they cheating, really? Yeah, it's bogus to log a cache you didn't find, but so what? There's no prize for the person with the most finds in this game. I have more of an issue with people who don't log their DNF's. In my opinion, that has more potential for wasting someone's time than logging a bogus find.

 

As one who drove out of his way and wasted an hour searching for a cache thanks to a bogus find, I can assure you that people who log bogus finds are cheating more than theirselves.

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Personally, I can't understand what the big deal is about logging a DNF and I sure would not like myself in the morning if I logged a find on a cache I did not find. Guess I am insufficiently obsessed. I will try and work on that. My last DNF resulted im my gettinga breathtaking photo, the one before that reminded me that I still want to live awhile longer.

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Sheesh, dont people realize its a hobby & game & not life ending no matter what number is by their name? 1 or 100,000,000, it doesnt matter when you die.

 

Dishonesty is the same no matter whether it's life or death or not. Rewarding dishonest behaviour only brews more dishonesty. It's not about reducing someone's numbers it about straightening out someone who cheats.

Who are they cheating, really? Yeah, it's bogus to log a cache you didn't find, but so what? There's no prize for the person with the most finds in this game. I have more of an issue with people who don't log their DNF's. In my opinion, that has more potential for wasting someone's time than logging a bogus find.

 

As one who drove out of his way and wasted an hour searching for a cache thanks to a bogus find, I can assure you that people who log bogus finds are cheating more than theirselves.

Yeah, but did you log the DNF? :P

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Sheesh, dont people realize its a hobby & game & not life ending no matter what number is by their name? 1 or 100,000,000, it doesnt matter when you die.

 

Dishonesty is the same no matter whether it's life or death or not. Rewarding dishonest behaviour only brews more dishonesty. It's not about reducing someone's numbers it about straightening out someone who cheats.

Who are they cheating, really? Yeah, it's bogus to log a cache you didn't find, but so what? There's no prize for the person with the most finds in this game. I have more of an issue with people who don't log their DNF's. In my opinion, that has more potential for wasting someone's time than logging a bogus find.

 

As one who drove out of his way and wasted an hour searching for a cache thanks to a bogus find, I can assure you that people who log bogus finds are cheating more than theirselves.

Yeah, but did you log the DNF? :P

 

Of course...and a SBA.

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Shortly after my last post on this topic, I gave the "benefit of doubt" and checked the cache. I was not too surprised to find no log entry...of course, as BrianSnat already stated regarding his cache, the description of the cache and approach were WAY OFF!

I deleted the entry.

...THE VERY NEXT DAY the cacher re-logged it with another phony date (over a year IN THE PAST!), again cutting and pasting his info (some of which was not even correct!).

An e-mail with factual and log content to Groundspeak was sent as well as an e-mail to the cacher inviting him to visit the cache during his next trip and honestly log it...otherwise any further log entries would be deleted. This cache (for anyone who has visited it) has a bit of uniqueness...I added a note that, if this uniqueness could be accurately described in detail, I would honor an entry.

No response from cacher but e-mail from Groundspeak said everything was handled the way it should have been.

While geocaching is a 'game', if you will, there will probably always be those who need or want to cheat...but, as a cache owner/hider, I do not have to accept or tolerate it - if dishonesty is encouraged or ignored, it will flourish and detract from the fun for all others who DO follow the guidelines.

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I just stumbled across this thread... This person in question posted a find on my "Hamburg High" cache. As Brian mentioned if you were going for this cache you would also get some other caches along the way (like The Best Cache in NJ ).

 

I will try to go out and visit this one soon to see if he signed the log.

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