Difficulty Rating For Puzzle Caches

[+Jango & Boba Fett]

OK so its beginning to cool down just a little bit and, due to a stonking oversight by Boba's new school, I'm going to be missing out on a visit to a certain London Pub tomorrow. So to make up for it here is a serious request for some help.

 

Having visited GeoCaches between the Solent and Sutherland in the last three months I've noticed a huge variation in the Difficulty Ratings assigned to Puzzle caches. But then I'm as much to blame as the next cache setter because using the ClayJar rating system I feel constrained to rate any puzzle cache as at least a 3 (Challenging) but still get emails saying this took me 2 hours hunting while a 3 should be straight forward. The ClayJar Difficulty Rating is (with apologies to egg blowing grannies):

1. Easy. In plain sight or can be found in a few minutes of searching.
   
2. Average. The average cache hunter would be able to find this in less than 30 minutes of hunting.
   
3. Challenging. An experienced cache hunter will find this challenging, and it could take up a good portion of an afternoon.
   
4. Difficult. A real challenge for the experienced cache hunter - may require special skills or knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days / trips to complete.
   
5. Extreme. A serious mental or physical challenge. Requires specialised knowledge, skills, or equipment to find cache.
   

Having spent an hour checking out all the Puzzle caches within 150 km of the House of Fett it would seem that for Puzzle Caches the East Anglian approach is:

1. Easy. Single stage you arrive there and the answer is obvious (eg What colour is the building? If blue then ... red then ... green ...)
   
2. Average. Single stage to find all the required information which is clearly stated on one interpretation board, inscription, web site, etc
   
3. Challenging. Multiple stages which involve obtaining numerical values indirectly (eg counting things), Puzzles for which the strategy to solve the mystery is readily apparent. Easy to Moderate Sodoku. Any cache which requires some prior research or preparation.
   
4. Difficult. Hard Sodoku. Puzzles in which the strategy to solve the mystery is not readily apparent. Any coded puzzle for which no explanation of the code is provided. Any Puzzle Cache which involves more than one strategy to solve.
   
5. Extreme. Anything by Pharisee. Bonus caches which involve the solving of multiple 3 and 4 star caches.
   

This is only a work in progress as Pharisee does place 4 star caches as well. My real bug bear are caches with too high a rating, particularly those where you arrive expecting an hour or too of mental gymnastics only to find your self filling in the log book 20 minutes latter.

 

Any comments or suggestions please.

[+rutson]

I tend to start mine fairly low and raise them half a star everytime somone questions my knowledge of my father

[dodgydaved]

I tend to start mine fairly low and raise them half a star everytime somone questions my knowledge of my father

 

I didn't know we had 23* difficulty caches Ian

[+Jango & Boba Fett]

I'll admit to the Rutson approach too, though as Ian says elsewhere (can't find the post at the moment) one person's hard nut can too simple for the next person. But having had a Puzzle cache published with a Difficulty of 2 1/2 stars, say, how high would you go - I'd tend limit my movements by ±1 star.

 

Specific examples on why you chose a Difficulty rating might be helpful - I'm sure that this wouldn't be viewed as self promotion; maybe its the teacher showing through but a bit of animated discussion over specific examples can really help. So until the Lead Magnets or Pharisee show up here's I'll put myself in the stocks with an example which I originally rated a 3 Star Difficult but then had to Rutson it up; however I have resisted any pressure to make it any higher as to cross the 4 star barrier implies to me that for a puzzle a lot of prior preparation is required, while for this cache it is just a ramped series of mini challenges/riddles which start off easy (get the info off a interpretation board) and become progressively more challenging as they test different fields of knowledge.

 

GCRFKB

 

I still think its only a 3.5 Star Difficulty but its ended up a 4 Stars because most cachers take 3 visits to complete it. As I said I've resisted suggestions to rate it any higher as it isn't a serious mental challenge and the specialist knowledge required to complete it can be googled in 5 minutes or found in any decent dictionary in 2 minutes. Oh yes and its a Multicache because after discussion with the Eckington that seemed the most sensible compromise given that I wanted it to be a Letterbox Hybrid, but as Eck pointed out its aa series of small tasks at different points so that a Multicache gives a better depiction of what is involved.

 

Jango runs off to find a tin helmet ......

[+rutson]

I'll admit to the Rutson approach too, though as Ian says elsewhere (can't find the post at the moment) one person's hard nut can too simple for the next person. But having had a Puzzle cache published with a Difficulty of 2 1/2 stars, say, how high would you go - I'd tend limit my movements by ±1 star.

 

Ah, that was a comment I made to you in chat Jango

 

I started this cache (Poor Johnson) at around 3 stars, I forget. I knew it was tricky, but I didn't realise QUITE how out of it I was when I concocted the idea As far as I can remember, only one person has solved it with absolutly no clues whatsoever, and THAT was after I simplified it to it's current state, there were a lot of red herrings originally

[+Andy&BeckyRiley]

It's a difficult one, what one person considers a difficult puzzle might be solved easily by another. I have a puzzle cache which some people have taken a while to solve but one person got the solution within 5 minutes of seeing the cache page. Horses for courses.....

 

Andy

[+Boardslider]

Shouldn't types 1 & 2 actually be offset caches? By my interpretation of the descriptions they should, which would mean that 3, 4 & 5 are the real puzzle caches and easier to rate.

 

BTW I was looking at one of Pharisee's the other day for half an hour and couldn't even figure where to start

[+LeadMagnet]

We're in Jango's neck of the woods, and have placed a few puzzle caches since our arrival this past January. The Missus' and I both love the puzzle cache format.

 

We've found that, on average, the difficulty ratings for puzzle caches in East Anglia have been a bit higher than what we were used to back in Vancouver, which is very densely populated with caches.

 

To now, we've rated our puzzle caches in the 3 / 3.5 range, with the expectation that cachers will have to sit at their desks for at least a few hours (and perhaps a bit more *grin*) and mull over just what exactly we're on about. Oh - and vague hints. It wouldn't do to give away the game.

 

As an example, these are our two puzzle caches currently active in East Anglia:

GCTMVC - Sam Spade & the Maltese Lock & Lock

GCT93A - Slipped Between the Stacks

 

Our main reason for not rating these guys higher is that we've experience many a puzzle cache back home that had us up the walls for months. A prime example, and one which is still a favourite, is The Rosabelle Cipher.

[+Jango & Boba Fett]

Shouldn't types 1 & 2 actually be offset caches? By my interpretation of the descriptions they should, which would mean that 3, 4 & 5 are the real puzzle caches and easier to rate.

Great but what you haven't stated is your criteria for rating them. Personally I do think that Level 1 & @ would count as Puzzles its just that there are more like the kind you find in a "puzzler" magazine at a railway station. As Rutson, Leadmagnet and others have say one persons puzzle is another's offset cache; there has to be scope for every level of cacher - for instance I have one not particularly taxing cache which is apparently "impossibly ambiguous without checksums" - we may all know what a Difficulty 1 & 5 Puzzle is, but its the in-betweens that cause the problem. I'm beginning to sway towards the LeadMagnet view that many Puzzles Caches are given inflated ratings as I'm not wholly convinced any of mine are more that 3.5 star caches.

 

What about this suggestion from a parallel thread which I started here:

 

I would say that your rating system is about 1 full point higher than ours here in the Bay Area of California.

 

In my opinion (and it's only an opinion) there is no Sudoku puzzle I have ever seen that is worth more than 3 stars.

 

It's hard to generalize, but a 3-star puzzle is one that will probably be solved the first day; a 4-star puzzle takes a few days; if it will take a week or more, it's probably worth 4.5 or 5 stars. But the Bay Area puzzle-solving community is pretty big, and as a result is probably faster than most at solving really tough puzzles.

 

This would give a Rating Scheme for Puzzle Caches based on combined preparation and field time something along the lines of:

1. Easy. Solved in a few minutes.
   
2. Average. Solved in a couple of hours
   
3. Challenging. Solved in less than a day.
   
4. Difficult. Solved in a few days.
   
5. Extreme. Takes a week or more to solve.
   

Anyway must put out the Do Not Disturb sign as I'm now working on some Rutson puzzles.

Edited July 6, 2006 by Jango & Boba Fett

[+rutson]

/me prepares to dust the sign in a week or two....

[+tteggod trackers]

puzzle caches....oh yes .... i find once i have found all the corners and the edges the rest falls into place quite easily.........but then i'm still doing early learning centre up to 5 years wooden ones

[+Jango & Boba Fett]

Received this by email this morning from a Mid Western cacher who's keeping his head below the parapet at the moment. This is further evidence that we're concentrating our Puzzle Cache Difficulty Ratings on too few levels. I've reformatted this but nothings been added by me. So the view from the Mid West:

1. Level 1 Location Puzzles - go to the location and collect data; go to the location and follow directions. 6-Packs - you have to find 6 other puzzles containing bits of the coordinates for the final.
    
   
2. Level 2 Suduko, the math puzzle, which might be easy or hard. Cut and Paste, literally, you cut the puzzle apart, and put it together. Word Search - another classic puzzle type, where you cross out the letters for a selection of words. What's left is the answer.
    
   
3. Level 3 Word Scramble - letters of the words are scrambled. Then, probably you need to do something with the words once you determine what they are. Math Problems - generally because people are poor in math, these can be fairly difficult.
    
   
4. Level 4 Data Manipulation - info is presented in a scrambled format. You have to unscramble it, and then manipulate it to get numbers. Info Search - you need to determine what (kind) of info has been used, and then use it to extract numbers.
    
   
5. Level 5 Logic Puzzles - I think they are the hardest because the logic flow is hard, eg Encryption - generally hard, especially if the 'language' used is not apparently English. Miscellaneous Puzzles - something that appears to really be off the wall. Usually twisted logic, strange thought patterns, and other mental contortions are manifested in these puzzles.
   

[+Bambi&Thumper]

Received this by email this morning from a Mid Western cacher who's keeping his head below the parapet at the moment. This is further evidence that we're concentrating our Puzzle Cache Difficulty Ratings on too few levels. I've reformatted this but nothings been added by me. So the view from the Mid West:

1. Level 1 Location Puzzles - go to the location and collect data; go to the location and follow directions. 6-Packs - you have to find 6 other puzzles containing bits of the coordinates for the final.
    
   
2. Level 2 Suduko, the math puzzle, which might be easy or hard. Cut and Paste, literally, you cut the puzzle apart, and put it together. Word Search - another classic puzzle type, where you cross out the letters for a selection of words. What's left is the answer.
    
   
3. Level 3 Word Scramble - letters of the words are scrambled. Then, probably you need to do something with the words once you determine what they are. Math Problems - generally because people are poor in math, these can be fairly difficult.
    
   
4. Level 4 Data Manipulation - info is presented in a scrambled format. You have to unscramble it, and then manipulate it to get numbers. Info Search - you need to determine what (kind) of info has been used, and then use it to extract numbers.
    
   
5. Level 5 Logic Puzzles - I think they are the hardest because the logic flow is hard, eg Encryption - generally hard, especially if the 'language' used is not apparently English. Miscellaneous Puzzles - something that appears to really be off the wall. Usually twisted logic, strange thought patterns, and other mental contortions are manifested in these puzzles.
   

 

What about puzzles where you have moving targets to find, like travel bugs? One springs to mind that we were FTF on nearly a year ago and since has only been visited once (by us) to liberate the TB we misguidedly left there.

 

B.

[+Jango & Boba Fett]

 

What about puzzles where you have moving targets to find, like travel bugs? One springs to mind that we were FTF on nearly a year ago and since has only been visited once (by us) to liberate the TB we misguidedly left there.

 

B.

OK so wherewould you rate such a cache and what about a link.

[+Bambi&Thumper]

OK so wherewould you rate such a cache and what about a link.

 

The cache in question was Moving Target where you have to find 4 TBs and a previous cache.

 

We had it easy, because we found most of the bugs before they left the NE, though we did make a special trip up to some iffy part of Scotland in the p!ssing rain to find that the final bug had been taken to somewhere rediculous by holiday cachers a week before who hadn't logged it yet Used a bit of initiative and guess work and found it without it in the end though

 

Still feel a bit bad that no-one has completed it properly though 'cos it was a great idea and really well executed (plug, plug).

 

As for the rating, I would say the terrain is about right and difficulty of 4* is probably resonably accurate, though maybe it could be 5* as it is HARD! Personally though, I feel that when you get to 4-5* the difference is largely subjective, and in the case of this cache and others like it (All About the UK springs to mind, but there are others), the difficulty is dependent on otherfactors. In any case, they are just plain difficult and I think if you decide to go for a 4* or 5* difficulty cache, on your head be it!!

 

B.

[+Pharisee]

5. Extreme. Anything by Pharisee. Bonus caches which involve the solving of multiple 3 and 4 star caches.

 

Oi.... Objection, Yer 'Onour. I'd like a couple of easy caches taken into account. In mitigation, I'd also like to add that I had a deprived childhood [switches on tough northern accent] and we all lived in a cardboard box... etc, etc.

 

[+rutson]

Carboard box? We'd have KILLED for a cardboard box....

[+The Biffas]

Carboard box? We'd have KILLED for a cardboard box....

 

Would that have made you a cereal killer, Ian ?

[+minstrelcat]

Sorry to hijack your thread Chae, but did you get my e-mail with the multicache clue and was it OK?

 

Cheers

Lisa

[+wigglesworth]

Another aspect for puzzle caches is the provision of a hint.

The hint normally applies to the physical location of the cache however a hint for how to complete the puzzle element would be appreciated. I must confess to frequently requesting asistance from the owner.

Peter