Placing My First Cache

[KlimberGirl]

I work at a small local company and I got permission to place a cache inside. In addition, they're willing to make it a 'take something/leave nothing cache', ie, cachers receive a "prize". Is this ethical in the caching community?

[+ReadyOrNot]

I work at a small local company and I got permission to place a cache inside. In addition, they're willing to make it a 'take something/leave nothing cache', ie, cachers receive a "prize". Is this ethical in the caching community?

 

Since you are the owner, I believe you get to make all the rules. It's your game, play it how you want to. Heck, put little rabbit poops in there if you want Seriously though, if you are willing to keep it stocked up, then more power to you.

[Team Misguided]

You might want to take a moment to re-read the cache listing guidelines found here. In particular pay attention to the section on Commercial Caches.

 

While I'm sure that you wont see any commercial gain from this cache being inside the business I'm fairly sure that your company is seeing this as free advertising.

[+Davispak]

as long as you don't have to buy anything to log the cache you are good I believe.

[+briansnat]

as long as you don't have to buy anything to log the cache you are good I believe.

 

Not necessarily true. If the cache can be seen as advertising its a no go. Read the link in Team Misguided's post.

[+Miragee]

Check with your local Reviewer.

 

They will let you know whether this will be Approved or not . . . Some cachers don't like to search for caches that make you feel obligated, even if you aren't, to make a purchase.

[Keystone]

as long as you don't have to buy anything to log the cache you are good I believe.

That's not correct. A cache can *solicit* business without requiring any purchase. You don't have to pay money to read a billboad along the highway, but it is soliciting your business.

[+Bill & Tammy]

as long as you don't have to buy anything to log the cache you are good I believe.

 

Not necessarily true. If the cache can be seen as advertising its a no go. Read the link in Team Misguided's post.

 

Right on target Briansnat, this could probably be considered a cache that solicits, especially since they are willing to give out "premiums" (not knowing what the free gift is, I am assuming it may be advertising related).

 

Another question to consider: Is this location interesting enough on its' own merit to want to bring folks to aside from getting a freebie?

Edited July 2, 2006 by Bill & Tammy

[+Davispak]

as long as you don't have to buy anything to log the cache you are good I believe.

That's not correct. A cache can *solicit* business without requiring any purchase. You don't have to pay money to read a billboad along the highway, but it is soliciting your business.

 

By using this logic, you have just archived every parking lot micro and any cache in a business parking lot. because by bringing you to the business, you have just unintentionally"solicited" that person. That is the reason businesses have signs.

 

Now I am not suggesting this, but a good definition of solicitation of business should be done. By us maybe, by the Moderators and Gc personell absolutly. I personally believe that it should not be a black and white issue, but a good clarification. What is currently in the guidelines is a little ambiguous. Placement of coupons or any business item inside, unless already a free item, I believe would constitute a solicitation. Placement by the business, the owner or manager or in direct order of the owner, business would or could be considered solicitation. Placement by an employee with the consent of the owner who then pledges to provide non-business items or previously free items would not constitue solicitation.

Previously free items even though they may include the business name are a grey area I think. A small cost item (pencils, magnets, etc...) I think may be ok, but you get much more than that (T-shirt, calander) may be considered solicitaion. The reason I say pens, pencils is that these are usable items of minimal costs and are not maintained for extended periods of time. (Ie. lost , used up , broken or just thrown away) However a calander and t-shirt has longevity and thus can be seen to cause undo unfluence upon the owner of the item to patronize the business.

 

Chew on that and tell me what ya think.

[KlimberGirl]

The ambiguity of the defintion is the reason I decided to post here. I am not denying that the business I work for will receive a benefit by the increased traffic. The free item in question in this particular case is a coffee tumbler with the company's logo on it. I feel it would be a symbiotic relationship between the geocaching community and the business. The business is forking out money in the form of a freebie but the community gets a fun cache. I have contacted the advertising department of geocaching.com My hope is that they will use this thread and the community's general consensus to clarify the definition provided in the aforementioned section.

[Keystone]

as long as you don't have to buy anything to log the cache you are good I believe.

That's not correct. A cache can *solicit* business without requiring any purchase. You don't have to pay money to read a billboad along the highway, but it is soliciting your business.

 

By using this logic, you have just archived every parking lot micro and any cache in a business parking lot. because by bringing you to the business, you have just unintentionally"solicited" that person. That is the reason businesses have signs.

 

Now I am not suggesting this, but a good definition of solicitation of business should be done. By us maybe, by the Moderators and Gc personell absolutly. I personally believe that it should not be a black and white issue, but a good clarification. What is currently in the guidelines is a little ambiguous. Placement of coupons or any business item inside, unless already a free item, I believe would constitute a solicitation. Placement by the business, the owner or manager or in direct order of the owner, business would or could be considered solicitation. Placement by an employee with the consent of the owner who then pledges to provide non-business items or previously free items would not constitue solicitation.

Previously free items even though they may include the business name are a grey area I think. A small cost item (pencils, magnets, etc...) I think may be ok, but you get much more than that (T-shirt, calander) may be considered solicitaion. The reason I say pens, pencils is that these are usable items of minimal costs and are not maintained for extended periods of time. (Ie. lost , used up , broken or just thrown away) However a calander and t-shirt has longevity and thus can be seen to cause undo unfluence upon the owner of the item to patronize the business.

 

Chew on that and tell me what ya think.

Ummm, nope, I haven't just gone and archived every parking lot micro. We can always dream, but no. The standard parking lot cache falls on the other side of the line that you've leapt over.

 

We already have a test, it is the the text of the guidelines, as interpreted by the volunteer cache reviewers. I agree with you that it should have some flexibility in it, and the guidelines certainly do. That is because no two situations are exactly alike. Cache pages that start out sounding like solicitations are regularly published after a little work between the owner and the cache reviewer.

[+srt4guy]

if i have to go inside i hope you are open 24/7 otherwise place the cache outside.

Tim

Just my .02

[+TEAM 360]

if i have to go inside i hope you are open 24/7 otherwise place the cache outside.

Tim

Just my .02

 

As long as you post the hours the cache will be available, I don't see what the problem is...there are plenty of library caches out there...and caches in restaurants, outdoor coffeehouses, etc...

[+Davispak]

as long as you don't have to buy anything to log the cache you are good I believe.

That's not correct. A cache can *solicit* business without requiring any purchase. You don't have to pay money to read a billboad along the highway, but it is soliciting your business.

 

By using this logic, you have just archived every parking lot micro and any cache in a business parking lot. because by bringing you to the business, you have just unintentionally"solicited" that person. That is the reason businesses have signs.

 

Now I am not suggesting this, but a good definition of solicitation of business should be done. By us maybe, by the Moderators and Gc personell absolutly. I personally believe that it should not be a black and white issue, but a good clarification. What is currently in the guidelines is a little ambiguous. Placement of coupons or any business item inside, unless already a free item, I believe would constitute a solicitation. Placement by the business, the owner or manager or in direct order of the owner, business would or could be considered solicitation. Placement by an employee with the consent of the owner who then pledges to provide non-business items or previously free items would not constitue solicitation.

Previously free items even though they may include the business name are a grey area I think. A small cost item (pencils, magnets, etc...) I think may be ok, but you get much more than that (T-shirt, calander) may be considered solicitaion. The reason I say pens, pencils is that these are usable items of minimal costs and are not maintained for extended periods of time. (Ie. lost , used up , broken or just thrown away) However a calander and t-shirt has longevity and thus can be seen to cause undo unfluence upon the owner of the item to patronize the business.

 

Chew on that and tell me what ya think.

Ummm, nope, I haven't just gone and archived every parking lot micro. We can always dream, but no. The standard parking lot cache falls on the other side of the line that you've leapt over.

 

We already have a test, it is the the text of the guidelines, as interpreted by the volunteer cache reviewers. I agree with you that it should have some flexibility in it, and the guidelines certainly do. That is because no two situations are exactly alike. Cache pages that start out sounding like solicitations are regularly published after a little work between the owner and the cache reviewer.

 

Man! I thought I had just rid us of all the micros and the 100 threads discussing them

[+srt4guy]

if i have to go inside i hope you are open 24/7 otherwise place the cache outside.

Tim

Just my .02

 

As long as you post the hours the cache will be available, I don't see what the problem is...there are plenty of library caches out there...and caches in restaurants, outdoor coffeehouses, etc...

 

i just download waypoints into the garmin and check it as i drive, could be 2:00am.

Tim

[+TEAM 360]

if i have to go inside i hope you are open 24/7 otherwise place the cache outside.

Tim

Just my .02

 

As long as you post the hours the cache will be available, I don't see what the problem is...there are plenty of library caches out there...and caches in restaurants, outdoor coffeehouses, etc...

 

i just download waypoints into the garmin and check it as i drive, could be 2:00am.

Tim

 

Well, then, ya can't blame the cache owner if he had the times posted....

Look before ya leap....

[+hukilaulau]

if i have to go inside i hope you are open 24/7 otherwise place the cache outside.

Tim

Just my .02

 

As long as you post the hours the cache will be available, I don't see what the problem is...there are plenty of library caches out there...and caches in restaurants, outdoor coffeehouses, etc...

 

i just download waypoints into the garmin and check it as i drive, could be 2:00am.

Tim

 

Well, then, ya can't blame the cache owner if he had the times posted....

Look before ya leap....

Agreed. Just because you can load a million waypoints without ever reading anything doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea. But that's part of the entitled mentality of our society. People want to be protected from their own laziness. This is like the objection to the cacher who wanted to place a "by appointment only" cache on his own property. One objection was, "what if I'm traveling and don't have time to make an appointment, or show up without knowing I had to plan ahead?" That would be inconvenient. Therefore, we can't allow this cache to exist for anyone. I guess it's just too simplistic to repeat..."If you don't like the idea, don't hunt the cache."

[+BigHank]

if i have to go inside i hope you are open 24/7 otherwise place the cache outside.

Tim

Just my .02

 

As long as you post the hours the cache will be available, I don't see what the problem is...there are plenty of library caches out there...and caches in restaurants, outdoor coffeehouses, etc...

 

i just download waypoints into the garmin and check it as i drive, could be 2:00am.

Tim

 

Well, then, ya can't blame the cache owner if he had the times posted....

Look before ya leap....

Agreed. Just because you can load a million waypoints without ever reading anything doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea. But that's part of the entitled mentality of our society. People want to be protected from their own laziness. This is like the objection to the cacher who wanted to place a "by appointment only" cache on his own property. One objection was, "what if I'm traveling and don't have time to make an appointment, or show up without knowing I had to plan ahead?" That would be inconvenient. Therefore, we can't allow this cache to exist for anyone. I guess it's just too simplistic to repeat..."If you don't like the idea, don't hunt the cache."

 

There you go, expecting people to exhibit some sense of personal responsbility. Don't you know any better than that????

[Clan Riffster]

Ummm, nope, I haven't just gone and archived every parking lot micro. We can always dream, but no.

Dern!

 

Back on topic: Before you hide anything or create a cache page, check to see if your area reviewer is receptive to the idea of placing a cache in a business. This might save you a bunch of heartache. Also, feel free to ask them for their advice on how to type up the submission so it doesn't look like solicitation. One thing I would recommend is that you do not mention the name of the business anywhere on the cache page. I'm sure your reviewer can offer other advice.

[+Bear_Left]

And I'm not sure why going into a place of business and asking to get a coaster out of the box, even one with "Geocache" written on it, would be considered fun...

 

I'm not surprised the business owner thinks it's a good idea; it's a free listing that will get people through their door, which increases the chance of a sale.

 

Sounds like exactly the sort of thing that the "caches that solicit" guideline was written for.