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The New Numbers Game


drat19
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Oh man... talk about revisionist history.

 

My first find was a 3x5 card box on the side of a clear cut mountain with a Sunny Delight drink in it. My second find had a roll of toilet paper in it and half chewed gum about 100ft from a campsite. Spare me your romanticizing of the activity "back then."

 

When I was your age sonny...

 

I'm with you on this one Jeremy. I personally find geocaching to be much improved since my first finds. Everything is not perfect (said to placate the fault finders) but overall my "fun level" as improved.

 

Sure, I can think of things that have deteriorated but why?

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Again, it is clear that some people who enjoy geocaching want pocket caches it seems, are their desires to be silenced? Will narrow definitions of geocaching held by some be allowed to dictate to everyone how they should engage in the activity? I suppose it remains to be seen. Just to illuminate how I stand on "pocket caches" anyway... no, I think at the present they are technically moving caches and should not be logged on this site. But, perhaps someday we will see a sanctioning body look into these things and take the game outside of the interests of one particular company or entity.

 

This is a key point.

 

No one is saying "No one should ever be allowd a pocket cache", but by definiton they are not allowed on Geocaching.com

 

It is now upon those who are huge proponents of pocket caching to start their own entity (thereby making up whatever new guidelines they wish and playing whatever new variant of the game they can think of).

 

I am sorry to inform anyone thinking along these lines that "whatsinmypocket.com" is already taken :D (though .net, .org etc. are in fact available! :D )

 

as is "snotrag.com" :) (but might be available for the right price!)

 

But seriously, the issue here is not about the activity of pocket caching. It's about logging those finds on GC.com

 

Driver Carries Cache

(madmike)

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Originally? The first cache was a half buried bucket with food and a weapon. Clearly some evolution was in order.

 

Ah, yes. The standard retort.

 

I'm not talking The Original Stash. I'm talking the feel of the caches in the early days. You know, when they actually had trade items and were at well thought-out places. Like the majority of the low numbered caches. You know, the examples are still here to be reviewed.

 

 

Oh man... talk about revisionist history.

 

My first find was a 3x5 card box on the side of a clear cut mountain with a Sunny Delight drink in it. My second find had a roll of toilet paper in it and half chewed gum about 100ft from a campsite. Spare me your romanticizing of the activity "back then."

 

When I was your age sonny...

Heh, I found one recently that was using a recycled orange flavored Metamucil jar for the contiainer. Wonder if it was the same hider and he's all grown up now? :):D

 

Sometimes more quantity does equal more quality. I live and play in what is already a fairly cache dense and rich area, yet in the past five months someone who hasn't been at this for very long has hidden some most excellent caches in an area where there were none before. 25 years ago a dam was built to create a new drinking water supply lake for this growing region. Many of the roads that bisected that area are now being taken back by nature, and she has created a series of "Into the Lake" caches down at the ends of these roads. So a newer cacher, creating new caches, has added to the quality of my life by bringing me to those scenic and interesting areas.

So much for the good old days, and the good old cachers knowing what's best for us indeed. :D

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Guidlines? More like Gestopic rules.

Here's a funny story: Among my current duties is to manage a call center. Normally, it wouldn't take up much of my life, but currently we don't have a supervisor on one of the shifts, so I fill in. Last week, I led a staff meeting. Among the topics to be discussed was the importance of being on-time and to limit personal phone calls. From the back of the room, I heard a long sigh and this comment, 'It's like we're in prison!'

 

It's always funny how much angst is involved when people are busted for doing something they knew was wrong.

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Guidlines? More like Gestopic rules.

Here's a funny story: Among my current duties is to manage a call center. Normally, it wouldn't take up much of my life, but currently we don't have a supervisor on one of the shifts, so I fill in. Last week, I led a staff meeting. Among the topics to be discussed was the importance of being on-time and to limit personal phone calls. From the back of the room, I heard a long sigh and this comment, 'It's like we're in prison!'

 

It's always funny how much angst is involved when people are busted for doing something they knew was wrong.

Guidlines? More like Gestopic rules.

 

I'd been waiting for the "nazi analogy"! :lol:

 

Anyone like to join in the "punting of the deceased equine"?

 

I'll take the first shot....

 

THWACK!

 

Driver Carries Cache

(madmike)

 

You just noticed that?

I cannot archive a cache, I don’t have that ability, yet for merely pointing all this out I’ve been called:

Fascist

Ignorant

GRINCH (yes, in all caps)

…such a jerk

…clueless fascist moron

…you snot

…you fu*kin baby (I censored that one myself for this post)

what a bully

…your {sic} just too much of a pansy (Hope he caches better than he writes)

 

All these personal attacks just for exposing the issue. Sweet!

Edited by Criminal
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Oh man... talk about revisionist history.

 

Huh. Kind of hard to be revisionist when the history is so conveniently archived for us.

 

Kind of makes me wonder if your first experiences where so gawdawful that you continued with the hobby.

 

Our first experiences where positive and by definition where with caches placed on or before August '02. These good experiences continued for a while. Heck, we weren't even choosy with our selections, yet we seemed to nearly always come across decent caches. Sure, we had a few caches with maintenance issues or placed while still behind the learning curve, no one is denying that. Don't confuse sincere attempts with spew and "gifts."

 

You know, maybe that's the reason we feel the we do. We know what it's like and see the deterioration. Others may just not know what it's like to have had it as good as we did.

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Guidlines? More like Gestopic rules.

Here's a funny story: Among my current duties is to manage a call center. Normally, it wouldn't take up much of my life, but currently we don't have a supervisor on one of the shifts, so I fill in. Last week, I led a staff meeting. Among the topics to be discussed was the importance of being on-time and to limit personal phone calls. From the back of the room, I heard a long sigh and this comment, 'It's like we're in prison!'

 

It's always funny how much angst is involved when people are busted for doing something they knew was wrong.

 

Since we're using business analogies, I'll share one from The Snoogstress about this matter. She is an REI store supervisor, a non-cacher, non-forum poster, and bemused observer of this entire flap.

 

In this analogy consider TPTB to be the store supervisor.

 

As a supervisor it is her responsibility to see that all of the rules and guidelines are followed consistently. A lax approach to enforcement over the long term would actually be considered HER fault. For example; If she regularly allowed her employees to come in late, because she herself liked to come in late from time to time, it would create a generally accepted practice. To then begin firing employees for lateness would be WRONG. First SHE would need to answer for her lax behavior and then gently bring everyone else in line. Those who refused would then have no recourse.

 

Keep in mind that there were Groundspeak lackeys all over at GW4 and their silence at GW3 & GW4 lent tacit approval to these practices. Where was the outrage when the event was going on? Why wasn't a RULE put in place after GW3?

 

Let me tell you this and I have observed it myself after being tipped off. SOME of the TPTB that partook of the pocket caching at GW3 may be going back to clean up their records. :lol: Maybe one or two of those cache owners could step up and name names, but I doubt it.

 

Again, I am neither FOR or AGAINST these practices. They mean nothing to how I play my game, but when the 800 pound gorilla of cache listing services becomes reactionary & revisionist while disregarding the outcry of those affected, it gives me pause.

 

The PROactive approach to change works best for all involved. GC.com has employed the proactive approach in the past (Virts & LCs) but chose a wholly darker path in this case. It is time to admit the mistake and move on. *sound of crickets* :lol:

Edited by Snoogans
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As a supervisor it is her responsibility to see that all of the rules and guidelines are followed consistently. A lax approach to enforcement over the long term would actually be considered HER fault. For example; If she regularly allowed her employees to come in late, because she herself liked to come in late from time to time, it would create a generally accepted practice. To then begin firing employees for lateness would be WRONG. First SHE would need to answer for her lax behavior and then gently bring everyone else in line. Those who refused would then have no recourse.

Unless Jeremy logged pocket caches or scribbled on the outside of a cache, I think your point is off-base. Change our hypothetical a bit, and I think we have something.

 

In the new scenario, the supervisor starts her day with a mandatory conference call. Therefore, she can't monitor whether the employees are tardy. A number of stock clerks get in the habit of coming in late. The cashiers notice, but they are not responsible for the stock clerks and don't feel that it is their business to tell the supervisor.

 

This goes on for several months, at which time the conference call gets permanently rescheduled for after lunch. The supervisor begins taking notice and several stock clerks get written up. One loses his job.

 

The supervisor was certainly responsible for the employees' practices, but her not knowing what they were doing should not save them from disciplinary action.

 

Hypotheticals are fun, but lets go back to coffee beans. :lol:

Edited by sbell111
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As a supervisor it is her responsibility to see that all of the rules and guidelines are followed consistently. A lax approach to enforcement over the long term would actually be considered HER fault. For example; If she regularly allowed her employees to come in late, because she herself liked to come in late from time to time, it would create a generally accepted practice. To then begin firing employees for lateness would be WRONG. First SHE would need to answer for her lax behavior and then gently bring everyone else in line. Those who refused would then have no recourse.

Unless Jeremy logged pocket caches or scribbled on the outside of a cache, I think your point is off-base. Change our hypothetical a bit, and I think we have something.

 

In the new scenario, the supervisor starts her day with a mandatory conference call. Therefore, she can't monitor whether the employees are tardy. A number of stock clerks get in the habit of coming in late. The cashiers notice, but they are not responsible for the stock clerks and don't feel that it is their business to tell the supervisor.

 

This goes on for several months, at which time the conference call gets permanently rescheduled for after lunch. The supervisor begins taking notice and several stock clerks get written up. One loses his job.

 

The supervisor was certainly responsible for the employees' practices, but her not knowing what they were doing should not save them from disciplinary action.

 

Hypotheticals are fun, but lets go back to coffee beans. :lol:

 

Jeremy didn't come to GW3 or GW4, but many other Groundspeak lackeys were there. I believe my (or should I say The Snoogstress') analogy was right on.

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You just noticed that?

I cannot archive a cache, I don’t have that ability, yet for merely pointing all this out I’ve been called:

Fascist

Ignorant

GRINCH (yes, in all caps)

…such a jerk

…clueless fascist moron

…you snot

…you fu*kin baby (I censored that one myself for this post)

what a bully

…your {sic} just too much of a pansy (Hope he caches better than he writes)

 

All these personal attacks just for exposing the issue. Sweet!

 

I was told I was "one rude cacher", "spreading hatred" and I was accused of "badmouthing" someone I never met or even heard of. How does one badmouth someone they didn't know existed?

 

...But, after reading the recently closed topics and a lot of profiles, I see that there are a lot of fine cachers here and some that need to go out and find a few more caches and write fewer posts on the forums

 

So where exactly is the dividing line between a "fine cacher" and one who "needs to go out and find a few more caches"? I'm also curious as to what makes a "fine cacher". Is it someone with a certain number of finds? Do they actually have find caches to be a "fine cacher", or can they just log pocket lint?

 

Does the fact that some of us don't bother with parking lot hides, pocket caches, multi event logs and other

stat padding activities eliminate us from consideration as a "fine cacher" because we haven't reached a certain number?

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You just noticed that?

I cannot archive a cache, I don’t have that ability, yet for merely pointing all this out I’ve been called:

Fascist

Ignorant

GRINCH (yes, in all caps)

…such a jerk

…clueless fascist moron

…you snot

…you fu*kin baby (I censored that one myself for this post)

what a bully

…your {sic} just too much of a pansy (Hope he caches better than he writes)

 

All these personal attacks just for exposing the issue. Sweet!

 

I was told I was "one rude cacher", "spreading hatred" and I was accused of "badmouthing" someone I never met or even heard of. How does one badmouth someone they didn't know existed?

The two bolded comments came from this ISP:

Florida, Riverview, United States

6532230hfc193.tampabay.res.rr.com (65.32.230.193)

 

I hope he wasn't too attached to them.

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Oh man... talk about revisionist history.

 

Huh. Kind of hard to be revisionist when the history is so conveniently archived for us.

 

Kind of makes me wonder if your first experiences where so gawdawful that you continued with the hobby.

 

 

Well keep wondering. The rest you can just make up (as usual).

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i've been wondering how that neat little ISP sign works on your profile page, criminal. people might like to pay attention to that before they crap on your bookmark list. :lol::lol:

 

I signed my feedback on his list. I wanted full credit. :)

Yes, and thankfully you didn't put 'cheesy' in all caps. That would have really hurt. :lol:

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Our intentions were to attend this Event and we knew exactly where it was being held since we had been to this place before. Ended up that my work got in the way and we didn't get to make it. Hmmmm, im thinking i might be the only one that has ever logged a DNF for an Event. :ph34r:

 

Sorry to have ruined your record, Mudfrog, but I was operating under the same rules. I did not know it was done before, and how many times. However, you probably still have title to being the first.

 

You see, a week ago I logged a DNF on GW4. I *really* wanted to attend, but couldn't, and the closest I could get to the event, even though I had tried, was about 7,331 miles. Having made a good attempt, I logged a DNF.

 

Now, there is irony with this log. I received several emails asking why I would do something so "stupid," logging a DNF on an event I could not possibly have attended. Even more ironic? One of those people sending me an email were one of the same who chided me for being offended by people in TX submitting an online log here in Iraq. <_<

 

It was at that moment I became very discouraged, for then I realized that some folks are so entrenched in their ideas that despite a logically sound argument about guidelines, GS archiving caches, and a majority of at least forum visiting cachers stating that they feel such logging is not appropriate, that they just will never see that logic.

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My comment about "fine cachers and those that need to do more caching" would not include "criminal". His new 5 by 5 GCW62K is a cache that i would be after now is I was on the west coast. On the other hand, I feel that if you have been on ground speak for 3 to 5 years and still are under 100 caches, you are not really a cacher. (my opinion) In the few caches I have located, I am sure there are a few good caches. <_<

 

As far as caring if someone knows who i am and where i am at, go for it, scare me please.

 

Mike

Edited by grey_wolf & momcat
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My comment about "fine cachers and those that need to do more caching" would not include "criminal". His new 5 by 5 GCW62K is a cache that i would be after now is I was on the west coast. On the other hand, I feel that if you have been on ground speak for 3 to 5 years and still are under 100 caches, you are not really a cacher. (my opinion) In the few caches I have located, I am sure there are a few good caches. <_<

 

As far as caring if someone knows who i am and where i am at, go for it, scare me please.

 

Mike

So, if Criminal was the owner of an easy lightpole cache, you would have revoked his membership?

Edited by sbell111
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On the other hand, I feel that if you have been on ground speak for 3 to 5 years and still are under 100 caches, you are not really a cacher. (my opinion)

Mike

 

You're thinking is off on this on. First of all to let you know if have over 100 caches so by your standard, I'm a real cacher. Now for the rub. Within 100 miles of my home there are less than 100 caches. How would a cacher without the means to travel long distances ever aquire your magic number. The number of finds sometimes has nothing to do with the quality of finder.

Edited by Totem Clan
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On the other hand, I feel that if you have been on ground speak for 3 to 5 years and still are under 100 caches, you are not really a cacher. (my opinion)

Mike

 

You're thinking is off on this on. First of all to let you know if have over 100 caches so by your standard, I'm a real cacher. Now for the rub. Within 100 miles of my home there are less than 100 cachers. How would a cacher with the means to travel long distances ever aquire you magic number. The number of finds sometimes has nothing to do with the quality of finder.

 

Ironic how how some of the same people who tell us not to worry about other people's numbers and do more caching, then tell us we aren't "real cachers" because we haven't reached a certain number of finds.

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<_<:ph34r: There is no way to even discuss the point without it turning to insults so i won't try. :P:o

 

I haven't seen any insults hurled over your comment. If you can't discuss it without insults, then I respect you for not doing so. But no one, or least I haven't insulted you. Just trying to make a counter point to your point.

Edited by Totem Clan
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My comment about "fine cachers and those that need to do more caching" would not include "criminal". His new 5 by 5 GCW62K is a cache that i would be after now is I was on the west coast. On the other hand, I feel that if you have been on ground speak for 3 to 5 years and still are under 100 caches, you are not really a cacher. (my opinion) In the few caches I have located, I am sure there are a few good caches. <_<

 

As far as caring if someone knows who i am and where i am at, go for it, scare me please.

 

Mike

 

Criminal is also one of those cachers who does not log all his caches online and is pretty far behind on logging.

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My comment about "fine cachers and those that need to do more caching" would not include "criminal". His new 5 by 5 GCW62K is a cache that i would be after now is I was on the west coast. On the other hand, I feel that if you have been on ground speak for 3 to 5 years and still are under 100 caches, you are not really a cacher. (my opinion) In the few caches I have located, I am sure there are a few good caches. B)

 

As far as caring if someone knows who i am and where i am at, go for it, scare me please.

 

Mike

 

Criminal is also one of those cachers who does not log all his caches online and is pretty far behind on logging.

...er...well....uh...hmmm. Sad to say they're all there. :laughing:

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. On the other hand, I feel that if you have been on ground speak for 3 to 5 years and still are under 100 caches, you are not really a cacher. (my opinion) I

 

Mike

 

Mike,

 

Could you explain further your reasoning for this opinion? I'm just curious as to how you arrived at it.

 

thanks,

 

Hank

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. On the other hand, I feel that if you have been on ground speak for 3 to 5 years and still are under 100 caches, you are not really a cacher. (my opinion) I

 

Mike

 

Mike,

 

Could you explain further your reasoning for this opinion? I'm just curious as to how you arrived at it.

 

thanks,

 

Hank

Me too :laughing: My other family members who cache with us have less than 100 finds and they are better at finding stuff than me, don't understand your reasoning.

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In the bookmark list somebody (they didn't leave a name) asked:

But, one more question, did you really "find" the Yakima Ave Bridge cache?

 

Yes, several times. The first time I pulled the cache up by the fishing line and to my horror it unraveled (use fishing knots on fishing line everyone!) and the cache dropped 100' into the brush below. I DNF'd it that time since I never even touched the container, only the line. They replaced it so I went back and stamped the logbook. I've checked on it a few times when I ride my bike through town as well.

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I feel that if you have been on ground speak for 3 to 5 years and still are under 100 caches, you are not really a cacher.
I don't feel that anyone who thinks "Groundspeak" is two words can be taken seriously. It might be more accurate to say that someone who somehow thinks you need a certain number of finds to be a "real" cacher is an elitist. :laughing:
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. On the other hand, I feel that if you have been on ground speak for 3 to 5 years and still are under 100 caches, you are not really a cacher. (my opinion) I

 

Mike

 

Mike,

 

Could you explain further your reasoning for this opinion? I'm just curious as to how you arrived at it.

 

thanks,

 

Hank

 

The basis for this came last year when GWIII ended and the planning for GWIV began. There were some cachers that were long time with Groundspeak and low on cache count making a lot of noise on these forums about how things should be. We come back this year and the same people are making a lot of noise and their cache count has not increased appreciably or at all. Some of these people are now making money off of the group. (I assume that means they are businessmen trying to make the cache community their customers)

I also feel that you need to experience a lot of caches in order to understand them. I never cared for the locationless or the moving caches, but I also don’t care about them. I usually load the GPSr and the IPAQ with queries and follow the needle to whatever it leads. BUT, I do understand that some cachers do not like micros and nanos; I feel the same about puzzle caches.

I am just concerned that some that really don’t cache are having a negative effect on geocaching with Jeremy and others that control a lot of the ways things are done at gc.com.

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. On the other hand, I feel that if you have been on ground speak for 3 to 5 years and still are under 100 caches, you are not really a cacher. (my opinion) I

 

Mike

 

Mike,

 

Could you explain further your reasoning for this opinion? I'm just curious as to how you arrived at it.

 

thanks,

 

Hank

Me too :laughing: My other family members who cache with us have less than 100 finds and they are better at finding stuff than me, don't understand your reasoning.

 

 

I have children and g-children that cache some and i don't think that they have seen enough caching to reorganize the sport. I am not saying that they don't like to cache and aren't good at it.

 

Mike

Edited by grey_wolf & momcat
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The basis for this came last year when GWIII ended and the planning for GWIV began. There were some cachers that were long time with Groundspeak and low on cache count making a lot of noise on these forums about how things should be. We come back this year and the same people are making a lot of noise and their cache count has not increased appreciably or at all. Some of these people are now making money off of the group. (I assume that means they are businessmen trying to make the cache community their customers)

I also feel that you need to experience a lot of caches in order to understand them. I never cared for the locationless or the moving caches, but I also don’t care about them. I usually load the GPSr and the IPAQ with queries and follow the needle to whatever it leads. BUT, I do understand that some cachers do not like micros and nanos; I feel the same about puzzle caches.

I am just concerned that some that really don’t cache are having a negative effect on geocaching with Jeremy and others that control a lot of the ways things are done at gc.com.

This is an interesting argument. You threw in just enough innuendo to support your argument without giving any facts to back it up so no one can give a counterpoint. Good job. :laughing:

Edited by sbell111
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You know there’s something here that I don’t think some of you have considered. Big numbers don’t make a good cacher and low numbers don’t make a bad cacher.

 

Most of you are from places where caches are thick, and yes I’ll concede the Micro Spew™ point here. For you numbers can be big. However for some cachers there are no big numbers of caches. I just moved to ND a month and half ago. There are 37 caches within 50 miles of my house. Of them 7 are mine.

I would love to have some more caches placed up here so I could hunt them. Notice I said hunt them, not find them. I’m one of those weirdoes that like the hunt as much or more than the find. I would consider Micro Spew™ a blessing here. Any cache for me to hunt would be a good cache. I, like any decent cacher, would prefer high quality caches. I will be first to stand and fight for quality over quantity. For me, here, now, any cache would be a God-send.

 

When you make the argument that big numbers means you’re a good cacher, I have to say, NO. Even if all the cachers out there today started caching on the same day, they all have the physical ability, and the same caching enthusiasm, they would not have the same numbers. Your arguments are based, and understandably so, on your caching habitat.

Some habitats are very diverse. In that environment even specialist that takes only a certain types of caches can thrive. In that same environment even a sloth could come up with big numbers.

Then you have caching habitats where one has to be a generalist, and a darn good one at that, just to get by.

 

Now let’s factor in the mobility differences. Once again all the cachers started caching on the same day, with the same physical ability, and the same desire to cache. If a cacher in a cache light area can’t take off and travel miles and miles to find that one cache, they won’t have the numbers. While others, even if from a cache light area, travel a lot, due to business or what-have-you, that cacher, even though his home habitat maybe low, has more opportunities to find the caches.

 

Now let’s bring this back to the real world. Just because you started caching before of after someone has no direct bearing on your ability or knowledge. I know a lot of old idiots. Your numbers may have more to do with your environment than your ability. Not only that, your time as a cacher and your cache count is in no way a gauge to your enthusiasm for, or value to the sport. You could be a burned out cynical old husk doing more harm than good.

 

So numbers are not always what they seem. I would rather be a noob that loves the sport and is goshdarn good at it, than a grumpy grizzled old veteran that does more griping than caching and couldn’t find a cache if it was glued to his back side.

Edited by Totem Clan
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Guidlines? More like Gestopic rules.

Here's a funny story: Among my current duties is to manage a call center. Normally, it wouldn't take up much of my life, but currently we don't have a supervisor on one of the shifts, so I fill in. Last week, I led a staff meeting. Among the topics to be discussed was the importance of being on-time and to limit personal phone calls. From the back of the room, I heard a long sigh and this comment, 'It's like we're in prison!'

 

It's always funny how much angst is involved when people are busted for doing something they knew was wrong.

Guidlines? More like Gestopic rules.

 

I'd been waiting for the "nazi analogy"! :laughing:

 

Anyone like to join in the "punting of the deceased equine"?

 

I'll take the first shot....

 

THWACK!

 

Driver Carries Cache

(madmike)

 

You just noticed that?

I cannot archive a cache, I don’t have that ability, yet for merely pointing all this out I’ve been called:

Fascist

Ignorant

GRINCH (yes, in all caps)

…such a jerk

…clueless fascist moron

…you snot

…you fu*kin baby (I censored that one myself for this post)

what a bully

…your {sic} just too much of a pansy (Hope he caches better than he writes)

 

All these personal attacks just for exposing the issue. Sweet!

 

However I don't notice you denying any of them. B)

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there is truth in wat you say "totem Clan". If you get a chance rapid city has a few, we cached ther last summer. Some are pretty good. :laughing:

 

Thanks but don't worry. I don't have the distance limitations. In fact we have 3 weeks of leave coming and a large part of the trip as cachin', cachin, and more cachin'. In fact we'll go through SD and plan on caching there too.

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I also feel that you need to experience a lot of caches in order to understand them.

 

I don't see that. I had a pretty good idea as to what this sport was all about by the time I had 36 finds (I use that number because my 36th was my first micro). By my 50th find I had experienced short hikes, long hikes, drive ups, urban caches, suburban caches, historic caches, scenic caches, lame caches, puzzle caches, multi caches, micros, full size, 1/1's, difficult terrain, events, virtuals, devious hides, caches in AOL tins and ammo boxes and caches on two coasts and in 3 states.

 

I'll put the experince I gained in my first 50 finds up against anyone who has racked up 1,000+ finds by going from mall parking lot lamp post to mall parking lot lamp post.

Edited by briansnat
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I also feel that you need to experience a lot of caches in order to understand them.

 

I don't see that. I had a pretty good idea as to what this sport was all about by the time I had 36 finds (I use that number because my 36th was my first micro). By my 50th find I had experienced short hikes, long hikes, drive ups, urban caches, suburban caches, historic caches, scenic caches, lame caches, puzzle caches, multi caches, micros, full size, 1/1's, difficult terrain, events, virtuals, devious hides, caches in AOL tins and ammo boxes and caches on two coasts and in 3 states.

 

I'll put the experince I gained in my first 50 finds up against anyone who has racked up 1,000+ finds by going from mall parking lot lamp post to mall parking lot lamp post.

You aren't "experienced" until you've opened an ammo box and been bitten by an extremely upset hamster. No cache is truly a difficulty 5 unless the trade items fight back.

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You aren't "experienced" until you've opened an ammo box and been bitten by an extremely upset hamster.
Ah, I was wondering how anyone in their right mind could justify signing the outside of a cache container and not signing the log inside as required. It is clear that some caching teams have an irrational fear (phobia) of little furry rodents! :laughing:
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