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Should This Type Of Cache Be Allowed?


the5Bucks
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For the non spiritual who may visit this cache, you may substitute well wishes. For those who think this is stupid, and do not want to participate, that is OK too. Just log your visit.
"You may also draw a caricature of a prophet, or burn a flag. That is OK too."

Let's keep hints of religion out of geocaching.

Thank you,

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For the non spiritual who may visit this cache, you may substitute well wishes. For those who think this is stupid, and do not want to participate, that is OK too. Just log your visit.
"You may also draw a caricature of a prophet, or burn a flag. That is OK too."

Let's keep hints of religion out of geocaching.

Thank you,

 

Great Anology: Lets get All Crazy Bent out of shape and go on a riot and kill people because we dont like a cartoon. That is just plain Stupid behavior-

Or Lets all worry and gnash our teeth because someone out there mentions a prayer.

 

Minus the killing,it seems just about as stupid, IMO

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Wow, as the OP'er I appreciate all the feedback. What a firestorm! While I agree with some points, and disagree with others, it is all interesting to read. And while I still beleive prayer is a personal thing, not a religious thing, I have made some changes to the original cache submission. One point before I show what I am submitting now: The line, "if you think this whole idea is stupid, we will pray for you" was meant to be funny. I did not mean to offend anyone, yet I see now how it could have. I apologized for my short-sightedness. So, with that in mind, do you think this submission should be approved?

All I know is that when I pray, coincidences happen; and when I don't pray, they don't happen.

~ Dan Hayes

Flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me, and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you. Encourage me, and I may not forget you.

~William Arthur

 

This is a cache that you can log as a find, and log your prayers or well wishes. They can be big or small, be specific or vague, or as long or short as you wish. Just list them, and see what happens!

 

For those who think this is silly, and do not want to participate, that is OK too. Just log your visit.

 

There is a school next door to the park, there is no need to go on the school property. Thanks, and Cache On!

 

It is still in the reveiwers que, so I am not sure what will happen. If it still does not get published as is, I may rename it: Agenda, you won't find one here, and leave the rest of the page blank. Anyway, thanks again for all the posts. Some of them made me laugh, some show how intolerant people are, and some hit the point right on.

As Always, Cache On!

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I recently submitted a cache that asks people to list Prayers. It looks like this:

 

This is a cache that you can log as a find, and log your prayers. Since it is 2 stages, you can log 2 prayers. The first, for yourself, the second for another. They can be big or small, be specific or vague, or as long or short as you wish. Just list them, and see what happens!

 

For the non spiritual who may visit this cache, you may substitute well wishes. For those who think this is stupid, and do not want to participate, that is OK too. Just log your visit.

 

It was denied because the reveiwer said that "Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda." Also, "Please keep religion out of geocaching."

My contention is that since I do not mention any paticular Faith or denomination, and also provide alternitives if you should choose not to list a prayer, that this is not "religious", and does not promote an agenda. You can either list a prayer, or not, its that simple. If someone if that easily offended, then I see it as their problem, not mine. I do not necessarily like Harry Potter, but have done many caches with it as a theme. It is not a big deal to me. It seems that tolerance is trumpeted alot these days, unless it involves church. Anyway, off my soapbox now, by my original point remains, this cache seems harmless to me. Your thoughts?

 

Thanks, and Cache On!

 

Seems like it's an overtly religous cache, which is against the guidelines. "Tolerance" is trumpeted a lot by people who want tolerance for their views but not others, and by people who think that if their viewpoint isn't honored in all contexts, it's indicative of intolerance.

 

Caches with a religious theme are simply against the rules. That of course, includes all religions- not just yours. It's not a question of tolerance, as no one's saying you're not allowed to have your beliefs. But everyone agrees to a certain set of rules in order to have a cache listed on geocaching.com. You can either agree with those rules, or not. But if you want to play, my opinion is that you should be prepared to respect those rules.

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For the non spiritual who may visit this cache, you may substitute well wishes. For those who think this is stupid, and do not want to participate, that is OK too. Just log your visit.
"You may also draw a caricature of a prophet, or burn a flag. That is OK too."

Let's keep hints of religion out of geocaching.

Thank you,

 

Good idea. I suggest we start by archiving all of these caches, and most of these as well.

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:laughing: I can't believe this whole post is allowed. :cry:

 

Why not? Discussion is healthy, and debate about the rules helps us reinforce why they're in place.

 

I truly don't believe this is a discussion about the subjective rules. :lol: I personally have my own beliefs and dis-beliefs, and I choose to not push them on others. :( It just surprises me that many much less inflammatory subjects have gotten the boot and have been closed by the moderator. Hmmm... :laughing:

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For the non spiritual who may visit this cache, you may substitute well wishes. For those who think this is stupid, and do not want to participate, that is OK too. Just log your visit.
"You may also draw a caricature of a prophet, or burn a flag. That is OK too."

Let's keep hints of religion out of geocaching.

Thank you,

 

Good idea. I suggest we start by archiving all of these caches, and most of these as well.

 

Don't forget these!

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?key=christmas

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?key=moses

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?key=rugged+cross

 

and many of these:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?key=christian

 

Religion is a part of many people's lives ... I can see getting offended if they push an agenda you don't agree with or don't want to partake of, but the mention of anything religious should not offend! Give me a break!

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Christmas is a secular as much as religious holiday. I hardly think a cache titled "Christmas BBQ" qualifies as a religiously-themed cache.

 

 

Took a look at these- none of them seem overtly religous right offhand. Some refer to religiously-themed locations (like a statue of Moses in a cemetary), but only in terms of the cache location. Most aren't even anything to do with the Moses of Christian mythology, but with people or place names (Moses Creek).

 

 

I looked at all four of these (wow, four! :laughing: ) and they all seem to be references to some geographic feature or one may be in an abandoned church somewhere, from the log entries. Hardly a religiously-themed cache, but simply references the location or features nearby.

 

 

I have to wonder if you even looked at these lists? Most are names or references to famous people (Hans Christian Andersen? :laughing: ). One seemed a bit questionable at first, but when I looked at it seemed to take people on a trip through some local history having to do with people who were Christians. Not exactly a religiously-themed cache.

Religion is a part of many people's lives ... I can see getting offended if they push an agenda you don't agree with or don't want to partake of, but the mention of anything religious should not offend! Give me a break!

 

No one ever said the mention of anything religious should offend, and despite this blatant strawman, it doesn't. The question is whether the cache under discussion meets the guidelines, which it patently does not.

 

And despite that, it's been said time and time again that there is no precedent rule. In other words, a cache already approved that is similar to yours has no bearing on whether yours gets approved. So these lists are meaningless even in that context.

 

My advise to those who want more religiously-themed caches is to either start their own website as suggested above or to host such cache listings on another existing site which doesn't have rules you dislike.

 

Besides, no one's yet managed to explain sufficiently to me why anyone would feel the need to proselytize via a geocache. Certainly, the "atheist" cache described above would be met with scorn, derision and a refusal to list. Sauce for the goose.

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For the non spiritual who may visit this cache, you may substitute well wishes. For those who think this is stupid, and do not want to participate, that is OK too. Just log your visit.
"You may also draw a caricature of a prophet, or burn a flag. That is OK too."

Let's keep hints of religion out of geocaching.

Thank you,

 

Good idea. I suggest we start by archiving all of these caches, and most of these as well.

 

Don't forget these!

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?key=christmas

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?key=moses

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?key=rugged+cross

 

and many of these:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?key=christian

 

Religion is a part of many people's lives ... I can see getting offended if they push an agenda you don't agree with or don't want to partake of, but the mention of anything religious should not offend! Give me a break!

 

I am just glad they didn't search Sun Worship. :laughing:

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Since precedent means nothing according to the guidelines, if any of those caches were published mistakenly, it would have no bearing on future religious caches being disallowed. (I admit I didn't even bother clicking on any of them, so they may be fine and dandy) You could find twenty published Prayer caches and I'd say the 21st shouldn't be allowed according to the current guidelines.

 

I continue to be surprised by several on the pro side of this saying, "Chill out. Why such a big deal?" Exactly! Since it really isn't important to YOU either, why not change the religious slant on the cache so that it doesn't even skirt the guidelines?

 

That is just plain Stupid behavior-

Or Lets all worry and gnash our teeth because someone out there mentions a prayer.

 

Minus the killing,it seems just about as stupid, IMO

 

Trust me, there's no worrying or gnashing of teeth here, but to some of us it seems just as stupid that we can't leave our politics and religiosity out of our tupperware hunting.

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I recently submitted a cache that asks people to list Prayers. It looks like this:

 

This is a cache that you can log as a find, and log your prayers. Since it is 2 stages, you can log 2 prayers. The first, for yourself, the second for another. They can be big or small, be specific or vague, or as long or short as you wish. Just list them, and see what happens!

 

For the non spiritual who may visit this cache, you may substitute well wishes. For those who think this is stupid, and do not want to participate, that is OK too. Just log your visit.

 

It was denied because the reveiwer said that "Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda." Also, "Please keep religion out of geocaching."

My contention is that since I do not mention any paticular Faith or denomination, and also provide alternitives if you should choose not to list a prayer, that this is not "religious", and does not promote an agenda. You can either list a prayer, or not, its that simple. If someone if that easily offended, then I see it as their problem, not mine. I do not necessarily like Harry Potter, but have done many caches with it as a theme. It is not a big deal to me. It seems that tolerance is trumpeted alot these days, unless it involves church. Anyway, off my soapbox now, by my original point remains, this cache seems harmless to me. Your thoughts?

 

Thanks, and Cache On!

People pray all the time. Why do they need to find this cache in order to do so? What about people that don't pray? Or that pray differently than you do? How about people that pray privately? You're telling them they need to make it public. What about people that think their god wants them to kill infidels? You want them to go against their religion by writing "well wishes"? You're promoting your own religion with this cache, no matter how you say it. Agenda, agenda, agenda.

 

Leave the religion out of the cache if you want it approved. The guidelines are quite clear on this.

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1. The name of this cache is "Prayers" -- not "Prayers and Well Wishes."

 

2. In addition to the text selected above for quotation, there are two prayers included in the cache description, as well as two quotations about the value of prayer.

 

3. The first version of this cache, prior to revision, was quite offensive to me as well as to your local reviewer, and is relevant to ascertaining intent:

For those who think this is stupid, and do not want to participate, that is OK too. We will pray for you.

Please keep your personal agenda off of cache pages.

 

I would say No as well.

 

You are right! it is your cache, but the service you list it on is not yours. The rules are not to stop you from hiding a cache the rules are what needs to be done to list a cache on this service.

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Time to close this thread?

 

Past time.

 

Looking this thread over, I don't see anything but rehashing of the same old opinions. At the very best you can say that this thread does prove the words of Solomon quite well, "There is nothing new under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 1:9)

 

Let's put this one out of it's misery.

 

yosemite%20sam.jpg

Say yer prayers, varmint!

 

Bret

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