+TeamK-9 Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I helped teach a short course on Wilderness Safety for a local group of boy scouts the other day. I use the phrase "help teach" fairly loosely. My brother is a CPR/First-Aid instructor for the American Red Cross. I went along to help him out by running a powerpoint presentation he had set up, and serving just as his general assistant. The group had several different speakers, along with my brother, they had someone to talk about survival techniques, and a man from one of the local SAR teams to talk specifically about Search & Rescue. I found him really the most interesting. One of the things he started his talk with, that actually really hit home with me was that a large majority of search & rescue incidents start with somone saying one phrase: "You go ahead, I'm just going to take a break for a while.." When people hike in groups, there's always one or two slower people, who not wanting to slow down the group, tell them to just go ahead on, that they'll catch up eventually. In alot of cases, these people miss an important turn in the trail, trying to catch up with the rest of the group. Just being alone is generally a bad idea. I began thinking about how many I had told my geocaching partner to just have a seat and wait, while I bushwacked the last 300 yards or so to the cache. And I remembered specifically one time, when I was bushwacking, and I just got so horribly disoriented that I had to sit down, call my dad on the walkie talkie and ask him to try and find me. (It turns out, I had bushwacked a quarter of a mile through heavy brush, to end up 100 feet from a trail, just outside of my line of sight) Anyway, I began thinking, surely other geocachers have had similar experiences, some possibly even more severe. So, does anyone know of any cachers requiring the assistance of SAR teams, rangers, or firemen to get out of, or even just find their way out of cache locations? Quote Link to comment
+CO Admin Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Was there a reason you couldnt backtrack your track in your gps to find your way back? One of the things we teach the boys is to use the track that is generated in the gps to return to a point. not always the most direct route but it does get you back. we also have them mark a waypoint every X minutes, depending on the group, to help them return to camp. Quote Link to comment
+Confucius' Cat Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 (It turns out, I had bushwacked a quarter of a mile through heavy brush, to end up 100 feet from a trail, just outside of my line of sight) This happens to me all the time. I even placed a cache that I thought took a moderate bushwhack only to go back later and find it was pertineer arms length from the trail. I've learned (somewhat) to just stay on the trail till the cache comes to me. What I mean is that most cache hiders do not bushwhack to place the cache and if it looks like you need to bushwhack a few hundred feet, chances are the trail loops around and you'll get to within spittin distance if you just stay on the trail. There are, of course, exceptions. My Wifemate can't keep up with me physically and she often "waits right here" while I do the last .1 mile or so in moderate terrain. It is up to me to find my way back to her. So far, so good. But there's an old saying, something about sometimes eating a bear... RE: Backtracking with bread crumb trail: This hasn't worked well for me, especially after doing the bumble-bee dance at the cache site. The combination of slow response, gps error, and wandering around on the way in tend to make the crumbs very hard to follow. Three suggestions which make getting lost much less likely: 1. Always mark a waypoint where you entered the woods (mark the car) 2. Always mark a waypoint where you leave your wife (this one is WIDE open for sa comments) 3. Always mark a waypoint where you start your bushwhack. (you can always bushwhack a more or less beeline to the trail) Quote Link to comment
+Isonzo Karst Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I cache and place caches in fairly remote places alone quite often. When I bushwhack,I waypoint the trail where I leave it, and of course, I can follow my track back as well. The scariest thing I've had happen is getting back to the truck and seeing the headlights on. A loooong walk from there to a hard road if that guy doesn't start (it did). Quote Link to comment
+Touchstone Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I usually have the track log on just for that purpose, although I've never had to use it. If I remember, I mark a waypoint of the trailhead/car and I've used that just get my berrings before. Most of the time I just keep to well defined features if I'm off trail (creeks, ridges, rocks and the sort), and I have a habit of turning around every once in awhile just to see what the lay of the land is going the other direction. In one instance I was descending in the dark and thought, "boy, if this headlamp goes out, it's going to be a very long, unpleasant night". Quote Link to comment
+Confucius' Cat Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 In one instance I was descending in the dark and thought, "boy, if this headlamp goes out, it's going to be a very long, unpleasant night". Three GOOD sources of light per person. (cave rule) Not quite so important in woods but still very good SOP Quote Link to comment
+Davispak Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Before I cached, I did alot of hunting, and still do. Before I had my GPSr, I always had a map of the area and a compass. As you know with hunting you go in in the morning before daylight and usually walk out after dark. Before season I would scout the area and that when I would mark landmarks and direction from them to the parking area. I guess I have always had a good sense of where I came from so I can find my way back. Quote Link to comment
Lt32 Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Three GOOD sources of light per person. (cave rule)Not quite so important in woods but still very good SOP Or at the very least spare batteries and bulb. Quote Link to comment
dutchmaster Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I dropped a fellow cacher off to look for one of my caches while I went on to do a maintenance check on another cache nearby. I was gone a tad longer than the estimated time I figured it would take fellow cacher to find my cache. I returned, had a break, loaded up my swag and finally began a search after reaching the cache and discovering my partner hadn't been there yet. How to find a second cacher who's lost? dutchmaster Quote Link to comment
+RockyRaab Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Second cacher lost... Blow car horn, or Blow rescue whistle. Wait for other cacher to reply with his whistle (you both DO carry whistles, right?) Let him come to you - or else you find him and then you both ask, "OK, now where's the car?" Result: two blank stares. If all else fails, log the other cacher as a DNF. Quote Link to comment
+TotemLake Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 In one instance I was descending in the dark and thought, "boy, if this headlamp goes out, it's going to be a very long, unpleasant night". Three GOOD sources of light per person. (cave rule) Not quite so important in woods but still very good SOP I agree. I carry an LED headlamp, a standard small flashlight, and 2 or 3 glowsticks. Quote Link to comment
+TotemLake Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Second cacher lost... Blow car horn, or Blow rescue whistle. Wait for other cacher to reply with his whistle (you both DO carry whistles, right?) Let him come to you - or else you find him and then you both ask, "OK, now where's the car?" Result: two blank stares. If all else fails, log the other cacher as a DNF. I can think of an incident where me and another hiker had become separated by choice. I was heading down and he was continuing up. After about 20 minutes he had decided to come on down and asked me to wait for him. Gave him the coordinates of my resting spot which he promptly arrived at, only to discover we were probably a good couple hundred feet apart in dense woods. The whistle he brought was a bonus and we were able to meet somewhere in the middle of our descent. I have since added a whistle to my gear. Quote Link to comment
+BigWhiteTruck Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I dropped a fellow cacher off to look for one of my caches while I went on to do a maintenance check on another cache nearby. I was gone a tad longer than the estimated time I figured it would take fellow cacher to find my cache. I returned, had a break, loaded up my swag and finally began a search after reaching the cache and discovering my partner hadn't been there yet. How to find a second cacher who's lost? dutchmaster Get off the forums and go back and look for him! Quote Link to comment
+The Jester Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I dropped a fellow cacher off to look for one of my caches while I went on to do a maintenance check on another cache nearby. I was gone a tad longer than the estimated time I figured it would take fellow cacher to find my cache. I returned, had a break, loaded up my swag and finally began a search after reaching the cache and discovering my partner hadn't been there yet. How to find a second cacher who's lost? dutchmaster Do like my wife and I do - use Rino's. I can always find her (or her me) when I need to. Quote Link to comment
+clearpath Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 So, does anyone know of any cachers requiring the assistance of SAR teams, rangers, or firemen to get out of, or even just find their way out of cache locations? Don't know of a geocacher that has needed help, I think we are smarter than the average adventurer. However, I did hear on the radio the other day that Arizona is going to start charging people between $20,000 and $50,000 if they have to be rescued. Hey, if I'm hanging from a cliff in Arizona and a helicopter comes over to help me, I'm going to tell them to leave me the hell alone. I'll take my own chances ... Quote Link to comment
+dinobalz Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Every time I go out I think it would be a good idea to set a waypoint every so often, and then usually forget to do it. The track log would hopefully prevent anyone from getting lost for too long, assuming the battery stays good. But every once in a while I think about how embarrassing it would be to need to be rescued when I had a GPS... Quote Link to comment
+Mule Ears Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Hey, if I'm hanging from a cliff in Arizona and a helicopter comes over to help me, I'm going to tell them to leave me the hell alone. I'll take my own chances ... How much to just put me on that ledge over there? Quote Link to comment
+Elde Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Don't know of a geocacher that has needed help, I think we are smarter than the average adventurer. However, I did hear on the radio the other day that Arizona is going to start charging people between $20,000 and $50,000 if they have to be rescued. Hey, if I'm hanging from a cliff in Arizona and a helicopter comes over to help me, I'm going to tell them to leave me the hell alone. I'll take my own chances ... Many states are starting to charge 'stupid' people for rescues. (I.E. people who set off into the woods with nothing more than a cell phone and an excess of self confidence.) I haven't heard of anyone that was charged where it was an actual accident/misfortune. Quote Link to comment
+clearpath Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Hey, if I'm hanging from a cliff in Arizona and a helicopter comes over to help me, I'm going to tell them to leave me the hell alone. I'll take my own chances ... How much to just put me on that ledge over there? Really, how much to drop a couple of days worth of food ... Quote Link to comment
Lowsky Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Ain't it funny how us men can walk in the woods, NEVER waymark and for the most part walk right back to the car, but can't find the way out of the mall? Or is it just me? Quote Link to comment
+WaldenRun Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Well, there is the story behind this log. -WR Quote Link to comment
+RockyRaab Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Lowsky, my friend, I cannot find my way INTO a mall - but that's deliberate. Quote Link to comment
+clearpath Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Or is it just me? No, it's you and about half the population of the planet ... Quote Link to comment
+T-bone's Team Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I never ever go without a good 'ole fashion compass....so long as I know the general bearing I'm headed off to I can at least locate the trail again.....whistle is also a must as well as energy bars and light sources. Quote Link to comment
+TotemLake Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Don't know of a geocacher that has needed help, I think we are smarter than the average adventurer. However, I did hear on the radio the other day that Arizona is going to start charging people between $20,000 and $50,000 if they have to be rescued. Hey, if I'm hanging from a cliff in Arizona and a helicopter comes over to help me, I'm going to tell them to leave me the hell alone. I'll take my own chances ... Many states are starting to charge 'stupid' people for rescues. (I.E. people who set off into the woods with nothing more than a cell phone and an excess of self confidence.) I haven't heard of anyone that was charged where it was an actual accident/misfortune. I haven't heard of anyone being charged for a rescue. That's what some tax dollars go towards. As for when the military become involved in rescues; they can't charge, so chalk it up to training exercises. The only time I ever heard of anybody being required to reimburse, is when someone causes a bomb squad to come out... There was a story about a person that did get lost in the woods back east while geocaching and had to be rescued. I can't seem to google the right keywords and we know about the current search situation... Quote Link to comment
+Touchstone Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Charging for rescues has been pretty commonplace in CA for quite a few years, and even longer in Europe. They even sell Rescue Insurance nowadays. We bought some insurance the last time we went to Europe for climbing/backpacking, becuase over there they don't care whose fault it is. (note to self: spare batteries, bulbs, and two more flashlights ) Quote Link to comment
+Team Perks Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 (edited) Fortunately, the only time I've had to be rescued by the rangers was the time I locked my keys in my truck. Edit: Touchstone is correct about charging for rescue in Calif., at least in certain circumstances. If I'm a Ventura County resident, and I have to be evacuated by helicopter in Los Angeles County, I'm stuck footing the bill. However, since I'm an L.A. County resident, my helicopter ride is free! Edited January 24, 2006 by Team Perks Quote Link to comment
+Mule Ears Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Watched the ABC news coverage of the helicopter rescue of hikers on Mount Olympus, and there was a sidebar piece on fees for rescue. Unfortunately, I can't find a link to that story online. The gist is that Moab, Utah charges for SAR. They highlighted the story of a guy who is disputing his $500+ rescue bill on the grounds that SAR send too many searchers (5). He was leaning against his highly customized Jeep at the time, reducing my sympathy for his complaint. My first off-road foray with our Jeep I managed to get it stuck (high centered) and called an off-road tow. It cost about $400 and was worth every cent. I could have easily extricated myself via mountain bike, but the Jeep would've been stripped by the time I could return with tools/help. Quote Link to comment
+geospyder Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 No Hi-Lift jack? Quote Link to comment
+JohnnyVegas Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Ain't it funny how us men can walk in the woods, NEVER waymark and for the most part walk right back to the car, but can't find the way out of the mall? Or is it just me? When I go the the mall I load the waypoint for my truck ito my GPS, if I can find the exit I and then find my truck. Now if the malls had GPS repeaters in them I would be all set. Quote Link to comment
+Mule Ears Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 No Hi-Lift jack? It was on order. I had nothing to work with. It's now equipped with every conceivable (and inconceivable) rescue/survival device. Probably shouldn't have told this story on myself; no matter what else I do getting the Jeep stuck and calling a tow is the only thing the locals remember about me. I could develop a cancer cure while hiking up Mount Everest on my hands and juggling chainsaws with my feet, and I'd still be "the guy who got stuck." Quote Link to comment
+Poidawg Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I got lost once but it was not while geocaching. I went out at dusk, and the fog came in, I got off the trail due to catching my foot on a chaparral bush, and breaking my toe, I actually kind of tumbled off the trail when my foot caught. Being that I was on the side of a mountain, the trail was too far above me at this point to try and reach it. FORTUNATELY, I ALWAYS bring the dog with me. I just told him to go get in the car we were going for a ride....Off we went straight for the car without hesitation and he was right on track. I awarded him with a huge burger for getting us out of harms way...Two weeks after breaking my toe that night on the mountain, the gas nozzle popped out of my cars gas tank when I was filling it and landed right on that toe, breaking it again...I did not need my dog for that. I was always taught that while hiking in unfamilar territory, turn around while during your walk every 10 minutes or so, or when the path makes a turn in order for you to be able to identify landmarks on the way back. I have yet to get lost since learning this. Quote Link to comment
+Team Perks Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 No Hi-Lift jack? A high-lift is the best thing I've never needed to use. Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I haven't heard of anyone being charged for a rescue. That's what some tax dollars go towards. As for when the military become involved in rescues; they can't charge, so chalk it up to training exercises. No, actually it is becoming increasing frequently for stupid people to have to pay for their rescue. That keeps the taxes lower for the rest of the taxpayers. I can only recall two instances reported by the paper concerning the cost of the rescue. My memory may be faulty on the actual charge (it was a few years ago). A rock climber in Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area fell onto a ledge. The rescue included closing I-80 westbound, at least one helicopter, and many manhours of labor. If I remember correctly, the rock climber was billed $5000. Quote Link to comment
+The Jester Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I haven't heard of anyone being charged for a rescue. That's what some tax dollars go towards. As for when the military become involved in rescues; they can't charge, so chalk it up to training exercises. I have (I live near TL). In King County the SAR use the county helicopter and don't charge. But just over Snoqualmie Pass, Kittitas County does charge for helicopter use (they don't have their own). We always tell the climbers if they are going to fall, make sure to fall into King County, it's cheaper. Quote Link to comment
+Davispak Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) I remember when I was in Iraq for act 1 of the war (91) I was with an Artillery unit and we had set listening posts about 500 yards out from our position. We were out in the middle of nowhere and it was flat as all get out and absolutly no "landmarks" and it got dark at night. And when I say dark, I mean like closing your eyes in a closet with a blindfold on dark. Well anyway, it was my turn to go out to the post at midnight and the only way to find the post was to follow the communication wire we had run out there for a field phone. You picked it up in your hand and just let it trail along til you got there. been doing this for weeks now so was used to it. So I'm headed out with the wire in my left hand just walking along, when suddenly the wire disapears! There was a break in the line and when it slipped out of my hand the end I had just went Puff and was gone to. I looked all over the ground trying to find the wire again. I couldn't find either end. I figured I had to be close so flashed my flashlight around to see if anyone responded, nothing. So I faced in the direction that I had come from and started back to my units position. Now there is an odd phenomenon that a person will walk with a slight lean in the direction of whatever hand is the dominate one. So in theory if you are right handed and you closed your eyes and started walking and there were no obstructions, you would walk in a giant circle. Welll guess what? I proved that hypothesis correct and that I walked for about 2 hours think I was going to die and/ or be captured by the enemy when I saw a large earthen mound that turned out to be the rear of our gun position. I had walked completely around our position. I had talked to several other poeple that had been over there and they say that they or a friend of theirs had experienced something similar. We even had a guy that walked into our position from another unit who had been missing for over a day, that told us he had gone out at night to relieve himself and lost his way back and by time the sun had come up, his unit was nowhere in sight. and before you ask, noone had GPS's except the CO and only the squad leaders had compasses. Edited for spelling Edited January 25, 2006 by Davispak Quote Link to comment
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