Making Stats Private Hiding Stats

[Mushtang]

Great.  So why do you ever log a Find?  How is that better for you than a note?

If you log a find, the cache no longer appears in your queries or your nearest cache list.

 

Duh.

I'm actually all for logging Finds. That quote of mine is taken out of context.

 

I'm not suggesting that people don't log finds. I think it's better that they do, and it an opinion I back up with my actions, but I'm not suggesting that anyone else should or should not.

 

My question was asked because a lot of people suggest that find counts are a bad thing, yet they still have them. Not only that, their profiles make it seem like they're proud of them. It seems like if someone thought find counts were evil they wouldn't want them for themselves.

 

That's my point.

[+yumitori]

It makes it easy for folks to offer congratulations on reaching significant milestones or for user groups to give certificates or awards to folks for reaching 1,000 or 2,000 finds and such. I just never realized that anybody would care if others knew how many or how few finds they had. I don't mind that my count shows me as a n00b.

 

To get back to the question....

 

There's some people who really, really, really like to compete with one another and even with folks with no interest at all in being included in such 'races'. Personally, I think there's better sports than geocaching for those who like this sort of thing, but I'm not going to second-guess why they find geocaching more appealing than, say, orienteering.

 

But a problem develops when those not willingly 'participating' in such competitiveness are attacked and belittled for not 'playing the game properly'. As one who has been on the receiving end of such behavior, I would greatly prefer that geocaching.com make it harder for those with such attitudes to track my stats.

 

It does matter to me what my Find count is, as a way of personally tracking how I'm doing, but not what the counts of others are. I do log my finds on-line, since there's numerous advantages to doing so and it's either difficult or impossible for me to achieve the same benefits without Find logs. It also brings a smile when my friends in the regional forums notice how I'm doing and post a 'congratulations for your milestone'. But while I can tell you what my 100th and 500th caches were, I can't say the same for most of my other milestones, including number 1000 or 1500. I can share what my celebratory caches were, I can't swear that they were number 748, 1000, or 1504.

 

Ultimately, it wouldn't matter to me if others know how many finds I have if it didn't matter so terribly much to them...

[+fizzymagic]

My question was asked because a lot of people suggest that find counts are a bad thing, yet they still have them.

It doesn't matter whether you think they are bad or good; you have no choice but to have them.

 

And that's the point of this thread, isn't it?

 

A local cacher I know recently received a note from another cacher saying "sorry to see that so-and-so passed you." The recipient, who is not a particularly competitive type, was offended. And rightly so.

 

That's what this thread is about. Avoiding that kind of thing.

Edited December 15, 2005 by fizzymagic

[+AuntieWeasel]

It doesn't matter whether you think they are bad or good; you have no choice but to have them.

It hardly seems justice would be better served if we had no choice but NOT to have them.

 

And I have to tell you, if stats were made optional it would be the same as having them displayed, just more of a pain. If I saw somebody with hidden stats -- human nature being what it is -- it would be a blinking neon sign to my curiosity. I would so totally have to go look up the profile.

 

Perhaps that's the point of the exercise...?

[CoyoteRed]

...I challenge you to back it up and get rid of yours.

I guess you forgot what thread you were in. Look at the top of the page.

 

You're a moron if you think for a second you could goad me in to doing something. What's on our profile page is no one's business but our own. Besides pretty much the same numbers are only one click away, so what's the point?

 

Ah, I see the issue now. You're thinking the efforts you put in to your profile page make not make a hill of beans to someone else. Upset that may be someone out there who couldn't give a rat's #%@ how many caches you found, when you found them, or what your milestones were? Maybe? Aww... Too bad.

 

Back to my original premise, the ability to not only hide your own stats, but be able to remove your own caches from someone else's total, as well. Numbers hound and don't like that my cache won't add to your score? Tough nuts. Move on.

 

Oh, BTW, just so you'd know. Grand Pooh Bah (or whatever his name is) doesn't have us listed by our request. Thank you very much.

[Jeremy]

Errrrkkkk...

 

I'm going to turn this forum topic around right now if you guys don't start behaving. I have a ton of snowman poop for your stockings if you keep this up.

 

I'll reiterate that there is no plan in the near future to provide such a "feature" so arguing this further would be rather pointless. I can see the desire for it but the issue is so microscopic that it really doesn't come up on the feature radar.

[+baloo&bd]

I think if anyone goes to the OP's stats page to better understand the purpose of this question.

[+Team Neos]

I have tried to look at this from all angles, but for the life of me, I just can't figure out why anyone would care if someone else knew how many caches they have...

 

As for me, I like seeing my stats, I compete against myself only. If someone else has more cache than I do I say "Good deal" and if they have fewer, well, they might have more next time, so what?...Even if they feel (for some weird reason) that they are competing with me, I don't have to feel that way myself.

 

I log event caches, and don't feel bad about it.

I log virtuals, earthcaches, whatever--even (gasp!) lame micros (which I don't always thinks are so lame)...

I log what I find.

I don't care what you think about my find list, and I have better things to do with my time than to look through yours to make sure that you dotted all your I's and crossed all you T's.

 

That said, I would not enjoy caching nearly so much without the numbers.

 

There are some very positive reasons to want to know how many caches someone else may have.

When I look at my friend's stats and see that they have 50 caches, and I know that I have done about 25 with them, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy to think that they have shared half of their fun with me.

When I introduce someone to caching, and see them get to 200 or 300 in a year or so, then I know that I have contributed to their enjoyment of a new pastime.

[+Thrak]

I have tried to look at this from all angles, but for the life of me, I just can't figure out why anyone would care if someone else knew how many caches they have...

 

As for me, I like seeing my stats, I compete against myself only.  If someone else has more cache than I do I say "Good deal" and if they have fewer, well, they might have more next time, so what?...Even if they feel (for some weird reason) that they are competing with me, I don't have to feel that way myself.

 

I log event caches, and don't feel bad about it.

I log virtuals, earthcaches, whatever--even (gasp!) lame micros (which I don't always thinks are so lame)...

I log what I find.

I don't care what you think about my find list, and I have better things to do with my time than to look through yours to make sure that you dotted all your I's and crossed all you T's.

 

That said, I would not enjoy caching nearly so much without the numbers.

 

There are some very positive reasons to want to know how many caches someone else may have.

When I look at my friend's stats and see that they have 50 caches, and I know that I have done about 25 with them, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy to think that they have shared half of their fun with me.

When I introduce someone to caching, and see them get to 200 or 300 in a year or so, then I know that I have contributed to their enjoyment of a new pastime.

YES!!!! This reflects how I feel as well. Thank you.

 

(I now return you to the regular bickering... I notice that LFD asked a simple question, received an answer, and doesn't really care to argue about it. He just wanted his question answered and seems satisfied that, although it wasn't the answer he particularly wanted, his original question was indeed answered by TPTB.)

[+sassydil]

I'm with you, Team Neos.

 

Actually, I came up with one reason for not wanting your stats known

What do you do if you call in sick and your boss happens to check your logs and sees you spent a glorious day caching when you were home sick? Yeah, I know you could lie and say you were catching up logging from previous days, but it would look a bit suspicious........

[+Lemon Fresh Dog]

Yes. My original question has been answered. To be honest, I don't really care what people "opinions" (or apparently religions) are in relation to stats. Some like them, some don't -- so on and so forth. I'm okay with everyone. (weeeeell....I don't like people that won't leave me alone and try to dictate my behaviour and opinions....busybodies, blech)

 

My only goal in asking the question is that I prefer to hide my personal information regarding the number of caches I have found. There are a few reasons -- not really something I want to debate. We're all entitled to our own personal opinions and preferences.

 

I've gotten some good ideas -- thanks everyone.

[Mushtang]

...I challenge you to back it up and get rid of yours.

I guess you forgot what thread you were in. Look at the top of the page.

Nope. I've pointed out a way that you could get rid of your find count, just because it's not a simple opt out button somewhere doesn't mean it's not possible at all. Are you not even reading all the posts before you reply?

 

You're a moron if you think for a second you could goad me in to doing something.

Nope. In fact I've said TWICE in this thread that I DIDN'T think you'd do it.

 

What's on our profile page is no one's business but our own.  Besides pretty much the same numbers are only one click away, so what's the point?

Just pointing out your hypocricy. I guessing you're being so defensive because it's embarrassing? Whatever.

 

Ah, I see the issue now.  You're thinking the efforts you put in to your profile page make not make a hill of beans to someone else.

You're correct. The efforts I put into my profile make not make... um... what?

 

Upset that may be someone out there who couldn't give a rat's #%@ how many caches you found, when you found them, or what your milestones were?  Maybe?  Aww...  Too bad.

Nah, not upset at all.

 

Back to my original premise, the ability to not only hide your own stats, but be able to remove your own caches from someone else's total, as well. Numbers hound and don't like that my cache won't add to your score?  Tough nuts.  Move on.

Okay, back to my original reply then. If numbers are so offensive, why don't you remove yours from the site? It's possible. But I still don't think you'll do it, you'll just continue to yak about how bad they are.

Edited December 16, 2005 by Mushtang

[+nittany dave]

I like to see stats and I don't care if people see mine. I don't put much weight behind them, I just find them sometimes interesting and even useful.

We all play the game the way we choose to and I have no interest in telling someone else how to play.

Now what I'd really like is the ability to hide some people.

[CoyoteRed]

If numbers are so offensive,...

This, right here, shows you don't get it. In this whole thread, you're still looking at a simple number. You can't grasp what the others are trying to say, especially me.

 

I'll use as many simple words as I can so you can follow along.

 

It is the pursuit of those numbers that is hurting the game.

 

Okay, before I go on, is there any words in the above sentence that you don't understand. If so, I suggest a remedial English course. When you've graduated, come back finish this post.

 

Moving on...

 

Now, because people can see other people's "score" they might feel the need to go out and find more caches.

 

Still following along? If not re-read the fourth paragraph in this post.

 

Because the hunt now turns to just finding a cache so that one can "beat" the other guy, it is no longer about the cache itself. It becomes simply the motions of finding the cache, signing the log, and moving on to the next cache.

 

The next stage in the evolution of the numbers game comes when folks start simply placing caches so their fellow cacher can claim a find. Nothing more. Folks have tried to import this thinking into our area. Quite frankly, I don't appreciate these sorts of caches.

 

That's not to mention the mentality of someone who walk away from a hide. They've invested too much time to walk away without a smilie. They might disregard being observed, they might use scourched earth tactics, they might even not take the time to remember where they found it, or take the time to put it back properly. The whole point of their hunt might become simply to do the bare minimum to legally claim the cache and ettiquite is for other folks.

 

Now, I'm NOT saying everyone who caches on a regular basis and has high numbers chases the all-mighty smilie. There are a lot of folks, and I would say the majority of those with higher numbers, simply enjoy finding caches and do it a lot.

 

However, I do see some who see little value in a hide other than a smilie. Those are the ones I'm talking about.

 

I guess I could go and change all of my finds to notes. But that would be of little help. Actually, probably not help at all. Why? Because few would know what I'm doing and why.

 

But if there was a switch on the profile that removed public display your stats, that would certainly call attention to the issue.

 

Additionally, if there was a switch that would remove the incrementing of a smilie on a cache, that would most certainly call attention to the issue. Oh, and that's not to mention the smilie hungry traffic would drop significantly. Then, visiting one of our caches would be purely about the hunt and not about the smilie at all.

 

So, for every person who removes their public display of their stats will be one less "target" the "goal setters" will have to worry about the number of smilies they have.

 

For every person who removes from their cache the ability to increment a find count will be one more cache to slow down the pursuit of the numbers.

 

One person changing finds to notes will not affect change. Hundreds could. The best way to do that is through a function of the site.

[+geognerd]

Because the hunt now turns to just finding a cache so that one can "beat" the other guy, it is no longer about the cache itself.  It becomes simply the motions of finding the cache, signing the log, and moving on to the next cache.

I understand CR, but don't totally agree. The whole situation of hiding or moving find counts is a Catch-22. But he raises a good point in the quote above. If the number of finds are removed from next to a cacher's name above their log entry, some numbers people may begin putting the find # in their log entry. I've seen one cacher list the number of each find in their log entry. It doesn't bother me too much because he writes actual content and reflects on each find. This may lead to logs worse than "TNLNSL. TFTC." For example, "#338. TNLNSL. TFTC." As a cache owner, a log like that would mean my cache was truly nothing more than a number to cacher.

[+KBI]

We will be removing find counts from logs at some point, however.

NOOOOOOO!

 

Please say it ain't so!

[+WildGooseChase]

Now, I'm NOT saying everyone who caches on a regular basis and has high numbers chases the all-mighty smilie.  There are a lot of folks, and I would say the majority of those with higher numbers, simply enjoy finding caches and do it a lot.

 

However, I do see some who see little value in a hide other than a smilie.  Those are the ones I'm talking about.

 

All this because a few cachers don't do it the "right" way? I love numbers, I set goals based on numbers, I will go for a cache simply to up my find count by one. However I don't destroy the area, point muggles to the cache, or any of the things you say "might" happen when people like me look for a cache. I've looked for a cache near my house, logged a DNF and never returned because it was in a trashy area. I place quality caches that usually can't be found simply by walking two seconds from the car. Now you want to restrict my numbers fun because of a few cachers? Thanks a lot!

[+KBI]

So why do you ever log a Find?  How is that better for you than a note?

Even with all of your postering, you are the one who is trying to dictate how others are playing the game. No? Then why do you say I should be logging notes instead? Hmmm?

 

Yes, I push for folks to play the game differently. No, I'm not pushing for folks to play the game my way. I would think someone with any intelligence could see the difference.

 

I see something wrong with the way some folks pursue the hobby and I want to correct it.

CR, It sure as heck sounds like you want to tell other geocachers how to play.

 

 

It is the pursuit of those numbers that is hurting the game.

No, it is your opinion that it is the pursuit of those numbers that is hurting the game.

 

I don't see a problem. In fact, I think there are some distinct advantages to the way the numbers are currently displayed.

 

Now, because people can see other people's "score" they might feel the need to go out and find more caches.

That’s pure speculation. Are you a mind reader? Besides, even if you’re right, what do you care what motivates another cacher to hunt for caches?

 

Because the hunt now turns to just finding a cache so that one can "beat" the other guy, it is no longer about the cache itself.  It becomes simply the motions of finding the cache, signing the log, and moving on to the next cache.

I sometimes do this myself. The less of my limited time I spend at one cache, the more time I have to find and enjoy other caches. Are you suggesting I’m a bad cacher because I like to squeeze as many finds as I can into my limited play time, or because I like watching my find count rise?

 

I don’t compete with anyone, but so what if I did? Just because you don’t like to compete doesn’t mean nobody else should. If you don’t want to compete, then don’t compete!

 

The next stage in the evolution of the numbers game comes when folks start simply placing caches so their fellow cacher can claim a find.  Nothing more.

More speculation about other people’s motives. I noticed earlier in this thread that it seemed to really bother you when someone speculated about your motives regarding your profile. Aren’t you pretty much committing the same annoyance now?

 

Folks have tried to import this thinking into our area.  Quite frankly, I don't appreciate these sorts of caches.

Then don’t hunt them.

 

One person changing finds to notes will not affect change.  Hundreds could.  The best way to do that is through a function of the site.

Sorry, but I happen to like the site just the way it is. If you don’t like the way Geocaching.com is set up, then go start your own site if you like, but leave this one alone.

 

If the owner wants to change it, then of course he should change it. I hope he doesn't, but it's his website.

 

You're welcome to your opinion, CR. I just don't appreciate being told by another cacher how I should play the game.

[Mushtang]

If numbers are so offensive,...

This, right here, shows you don't get it. In this whole thread, you're still looking at a simple number. You can't grasp what the others are trying to say, especially me.

 

I'll use as many simple words as I can so you can follow along.

 

It is the pursuit of those numbers that is hurting the game.

 

Okay, before I go on, is there any words in the above sentence that you don't understand. If so, I suggest a remedial English course. When you've graduated, come back finish this post.

 

Moving on...

Okay, well I've gone to take a remedial English language class and I'm back. I understood all the words before (even the misspelled ones), but wanted to be sure. Let's look at your post and see what you've said and apply my new learning to it. Shall we?

 

Now, because people can see other people's "score" they might feel the need to go out and find more caches.

So, if people can see how many caches you've found, or your "score", then this might be the reason they go to find more caches. Did I understand that correctly?

 

Hmm. In my English class we learned the definition of the word "might". So I guess using your logic pretty much anything "might" be a reason for someone to go find a cache. If someone saw a cat, they might feel the need to go out and find more caches. I myself seriously doubt looking at someone's score would be a reason to go any more than seeing a cat would. But then again you play the game your own way.

 

Still following along?  If not re-read the fourth paragraph in this post.

Yup, I'm with ya. Your logic is still as flawed as ever, but I'm following along.

 

Because the hunt now turns to just finding a cache so that one can "beat" the other guy, it is no longer about the cache itself.  It becomes simply the motions of finding the cache, signing the log, and moving on to the next cache.

In my English class we also learned the meaning of the word "beat" and it's multiple meanings. It seems to me that you mean "beat" as in "to win a competition". Right? So, now I can see that you're suggesting that if I can see how many caches you've found, by looking at your find count, I might feel competitive and want to find more than you, so that I can "win"

 

This isn't anything different from what I've understood before. In the past I've seen you write that you don't like the game being competitive, and you seem very much in favor of taking away numbers from the site so that nobody that wants to play that way can.

 

The next stage in the evolution of the numbers game comes when folks start simply placing caches so their fellow cacher can claim a find.  Nothing more.  Folks have tried to import this thinking into our area.  Quite frankly, I don't appreciate these sorts of caches.

Again, nothing new. But I'm glad you're spelling it out again. You've decided that if people's stats are shown on the site, this will lead to competition, and competition will lead to a different kind of hide then you'd appreciate.

 

So far I've got "Stats" will lead to "CoyoteRed not being happy with the quality of some hides".

 

That's not to mention the mentality of someone who walk away from a hide.  They've invested too much time to walk away without a smilie.  They might disregard being observed, they might use scourched earth tactics, they might even not take the time to remember where they found it, or take the time to put it back properly.  The whole point of their hunt might become simply to do the bare minimum to legally claim the cache and ettiquite is for other folks.

Okay, if I'm following along with this one too, you're linking stats to bad etiquette of some cachers. And you're claiming that if stats weren't on the page then these people would be more respectful and thoughtful cachers.

 

It still sounds like you're saying Stats are a bad thing. The fact that numbers are shown online seems to upset you because you claim that they lead to things you don't want. I'm not misunderstanding that.

 

Now, I'm NOT saying everyone who caches on a regular basis and has high numbers chases the all-mighty smilie.  There are a lot of folks, and I would say the majority of those with higher numbers, simply enjoy finding caches and do it a lot.

I agree that not everyone that caches does it simply for the numbers. But I'd disagree that the majority of the high numbers people don't enjoy the numbers somewhat. Maybe a few, but not the majority. But how many enjoy it how much is just a guess on both of our parts.

 

However, I do see some who see little value in a hide other than a smilie.  Those are the ones I'm talking about.

Now this one is pretty clear to me. When you suggest that numbers be removed from the site, you're only doing this because of the people that enjoy looking at their numbers.

 

We learned another word in English class. It was a slang term for a mean person. I'm pretty sure Jeremy wouldn't want me to use it here.

 

I guess I could go and change all of my finds to notes.  But that would be of little help.  Actually, probably not help at all.  Why? Because few would know what I'm doing and why.

 

You could put a statement on your geo-profile. Oh wait, what's on your public profile is nobody else's business (You said that earlier in this thread).

 

So taking your stats off the site would keep people from being competitive with you, but that's not good enough?

 

But if there was a switch on the profile that removed public display your stats, that would certainly call attention to the issue.

If your stats (and the stats of a few others) disappeared from the site, competition would go away? The quality of hides would increase? Numbers hounds would stop playing the game the way they like?

 

Additionally, if there was a switch that would remove the incrementing of a smilie on a cache, that would most certainly call attention to the issue.  Oh, and that's not to mention the smilie hungry traffic would drop significantly.  Then, visiting one of our caches would be purely about the hunt and not about the smilie at all.

There's an easy way to keep somebody from getting a smiley, or increasing their find count on this site. Archive them and change them to Waymarks. (Or move them to Navicache, then the number of finds on your caches would seriously go down)

 

So, for every person who removes their public display of their stats will be one less "target" the "goal setters" will have to worry about the number of smilies they have.

 

For every person who removes from their cache the ability to increment a find count will be one more cache to slow down the pursuit of the numbers.

 

One person changing finds to notes will not affect change.  Hundreds could.  The best way to do that is through a function of the site.

It comes down again to you wanting to change the way the game is played so that other people can't play it the way they want to, and you're suggesting that the way you play it is best.

 

This has been interesting. You've spelled it out simply, you've used small words, I've understood exactly what you mean, and you're still saying the same thing. You don't like the numbers, you claim they do bad things for the game, and you want to change the way other people play so they'll play like you do.

 

I'm thinking you're the one that "doesn't get it", not me.

[+Moose Mob]

Personal attacks in the forums? Please take it to PM's or e-mail.

 

Thanks.

Edited December 16, 2005 by Moose Mob

[+KBI]

Where is the personal attack? Sure, it's a heated debate, but the whole thread seems fairly logical, rational and on-topic so far.

 

Seriously, I want to comply with the rules. I just need to know what the problem was so I can avoid it in the future.

 

If you would, please quote the offending text specifically.

[CoyoteRed]

Someone has a serious reading comprehension problem.

[+Lemon Fresh Dog]

I don’t compete with anyone, but so what if I did?  Just because you don’t like to compete doesn’t mean nobody else should.  If you don’t want to compete, then don’t compete!

Sounds good to me! So, if I don't want to compete -- how do I hide my numbers?

 

This is the original question. I currently do not have an "opt out" option when it comes to declaring my stats (except not to log caches and/or seek them).

 

If I log a find, my stats are affected and anyone can see their totals -- that's all I wanted to get rid of. I hate folks getting into my business -- especially when they can do so anonymously.

 

It's not a huge deal -- Jeremy gave me my answer "no. you cannot hide stats and it's low on the priority list to change" <-- paraphrased.

 

I'm okay with that. I'll hide them another way.

[+baloo&bd]

If I log a find, my stats are affected and anyone can see their totals -- that's all I wanted to get rid of.  I hate folks getting into my business -- especially when they can do so anonymously.

Explaining the apparent paranoia may help, however it appears the easiest and most effective way is 1. don't log your finds or 2. log them as notes.

 

Unfortunately #1 short changes both you and others as well as the hider and #2 means the logs can be read but wil not "collect" them all in one place under your name.

 

Sorry, but it is really hard to see why you would particpate in a hobby such as this using Geocaching.com and then ask for the stats to be hidden. The open nature is one of the many facets that has caused this site, as well as the game, to grow as it has.

Edited December 17, 2005 by baloo&bd

[+flask]

Consider that we stopped keeping track what's what after 200 finds, you'll note the logged finds are over 700, then one might infer that we don't care about any miles stones.

Or one might infer that it's all sanctimonious posturing, since you clearly know what your logged count is, which milestones you observed and when you stopped observing them. People who don't care about the numbers don't care about the numbers. People whose disdain for the numbers is loud and frequent and in everyone's face clearly care very much about the numbers, just not in a nice way.

hey, hey, hey.

 

i am all about my numbers. i LOVE my numbers. sure, i don't consider 1400 to be a milestone, and i don't want to know how many FTFs i have. i don't know how many caches i've found because i'm behind in my logging. if i were current i'd know.

 

but i LOVE my numbers. i just don't care about yours unless you are a personal friend of mine, and i don't want you to make assumptions about me based on my numbers. i do not wish to be rated according to them, and i do not wish to be publicly congratulated on them.

 

i've no problem calling attention to myself; i'm a performing artist, for pete's sake. i WANT you to pay attention to my record as a cacher, only i prefer you to notice the narrative rather than the number of logbooks i've signed.

 

my latest number means so very little. it's awkward for me when a new cacher defers to me on the basis of numbers. new eyes are often good eyes to see the world through. it's too easy for me to be too pleased with myself when i look at the number of finds next to that log. i'm highly competitive and i don't want to be drawn into contests about numbers while caching.

 

sometimes my find count works against me socially; some people in my area assume that because i have a high find count that i don't have time to go caching with them, or that i don't have time to revisit caches i've been to just to be sociable.

 

i love meeting new cachers, and people from away who have never heard of me. paradoxically, i want to be invisible as much as i want to be known.

 

i am totally toasty if you all want to go compare and note your numbers. i just don't want you to include mine. it isn't about modesty and it isn't about being pure. it's about my own monkeys on my own back and if you are close enough to me for me to want you to call me by my given name, i will very much enjoy tossing about the numbers with you.

 

if you are close enough to me for me to want you to call me by my given name you know that the only really important number is the next one. not the next milestone; the next cache. it's how i live day to day, hour to hour.

 

i have to.

 

if i want a ranking, i'll go race a bicycle. and i know exactly how many state championships i have won. no, wait... i'm not sure. i lost track,

 

...nah, just kidding. i know how many.

[Mushtang]

Someone has a serious reading comprehension problem.

I guess several of us have the same problem. Several of us think you're saying the same thing.

 

Or did you mean that you do?

[+KBI]

Someone has a serious reading comprehension problem.

"Someone?"

 

I counted three different people who reacted negatively to your rant. Can you be a little more specific?

[+welch]

Sorry, but it is really hard to see why you would particpate in a hobby such as this using Geocaching.com and then ask for the stats to be hidden. The open nature is one of the many facets that has caused this site, as well as the game, to grow as it has.

Open nature of stats?

There is no center leaderboard, nor has Jeremy indicated there are plans to create one. The site ever throttles and bans bot/spiders (whatever you call them) making it harder for persons wanting to create their own boards...

Did misunderstand or are you saying the growth of geocaching is related to the ability to view others stats?? Are we all really that competive? Is this why we're more popular than say Letterboxing?

[+Lemon Fresh Dog]

What have I started!

 

Look....the question is simple. The answer was simple too.

[+welch]

What have I started!

 

Look....the question is simple. The answer was simple too.

sit back and watch the show dr. frankenstein

[+Thrak]

What have I started!

 

Look....the question is simple. The answer was simple too.

You could always use the little deal on the lower left and lock the thread if you like LFD. Not trying to tell you to do so - just a thought.

[+flask]

there are always people who will insist that your stats are part of their fun.

 

that's why i lie about mine.

 

 

 

....no, really. i mostly tell the truth. i'm just yankin' yer chain.

 

i admit to finding nearly all the caches i have found.

 

but i do ask to be removed from any third-party leaderboards i find. mostly people have been very nice about it.

 

i am delighted to tell you that my local caching culture is more cooperative than competitive. we play well and share nicely. we don't have a numbers race. i love those guys, and i'm proud to know them.

[+baloo&bd]

Open nature of stats?

<snip>

Did misunderstand or are you saying the growth of geocaching is related to the ability to view others stats??

Actually, yes you did. First, I never said "the open anture of stats". I characterized the overall open nature of Geocaching.com as one of MANY reasons for the growth, stats among them. The fact that the site is open and inviting to newbies as well as those more seasoned and that it offers sort of a one stop shop for geocaching has certainly contributed.

 

However, yes, the stats have in their own way contributed to the growth. Competition exisits to one degree or another in every hobby. Here, it is done by the individual and generally just as a benchmark for his or her own personal use, which is why I never mentioned a leaderboard of any type.

 

It is fun for some to set goals and to do so, many find someone or a group of people in their area to measure themselves against. Again, this is a personal choice. I have average numbers, however know many of the cachers in my area and have a few that i measure myself against. For all I know they do the same with mine. I myself have yet to see anyone criticized because of their stats. I haven't seen any competition other than good natured.

 

No valid reason has yet been given in this thread to warrant changing the current model. Personal information is not given unless volunteered by by the individual by means of the info on the users profile or here in the forums.

 

So to my original point, since privacy is not at issue, then why even consider changing the status quo?

[+welch]

Open nature of stats?

<snip>

Did misunderstand or are you saying the growth of geocaching is related to the ability to view others stats??

Actually, yes you did. First, I never said "the open anture of stats". I characterized the overall open nature of Geocaching.com as one of MANY reasons for the growth, stats among them. The fact that the site is open and inviting to newbies as well as those more seasoned and that it offers sort of a one stop shop for geocaching has certainly contributed.

 

However, yes, the stats have in their own way contributed to the growth. Competition exisits to one degree or another in every hobby. Here, it is done by the individual and generally just as a benchmark for his or her own personal use, which is why I never mentioned a leaderboard of any type.

 

It is fun for some to set goals and to do so, many find someone or a group of people in their area to measure themselves against. Again, this is a personal choice. I have average numbers, however know many of the cachers in my area and have a few that i measure myself against. For all I know they do the same with mine. I myself have yet to see anyone criticized because of their stats. I haven't seen any competition other than good natured.

 

No valid reason has yet been given in this thread to warrant changing the current model. Personal information is not given unless volunteered by by the individual by means of the info on the users profile or here in the forums.

 

So to my original point, since privacy is not at issue, then why even consider changing the status quo?

Yes I know you never said 'the open nanture of stats', I did. I was trying to compare the open nature of stats to the open nature of geocaching as a whole. It seems like stats are, and have been much more private than other parts (namely where are the caches located). But thank you for clearifying that.

 

Perhaps competition is inevitable... but should nothing be done for those that want to limit their involvement in competition? Or is it tuff nuts for using the system to track their finds? In some ways I think the forums better if actual player accounts were not directly associated with forum users. Maybe it would cut down the threads about 'cacher status'/'criticized habits' at least maybe it would seem that way.

 

I don't see the question as why change, but 'how do you allow everyone to do what they want to do while pissing off the smallest number of people' (then how to get Jeremy to go with it )

Its more an issue of preference than privacy (to me anyways). I don't see my stats adding much if anything to anyone elses enjoyment, so there's really no benefit to have to posted for everyone. I'd prefer they'd not be displayed, but thats not an option. (and something of very low priority so its unlikely to happen soon if ever) But its still something I (and others) would like in one form or another.

[+CamoCacher]

I'm new to the game and have been watching a few of these discussions with interest. I'll admit my boss, myslef and another co-worker watch our smilies and each others. We have a good hearted, good-natured competition between the three of us. Our other co-workers love to listen to our adventures and fun.

 

But it is NOT all about the Stats or smilies for us. We love to go out together and cache, we love to share our adventures at caches we did without one another, we tell each other about caches we liked that the others should try. None of us have yet found a cache the others shouldn't do.Each of us also love the excercise we get, the buety of nature and different places we see.

 

Each one of us is very different. Me I'm single with no kids. I get out ALMOST daily to cache. My boss is married with kids, he caches mostly weekends with his family and the last gal occassionaly caches with her kids when she can. None of us think any less of each other for our numbers, time used to cache, etc. My boss goes further out to othe counties in our state and has the most stats. He's been caching the longest.

 

And Yes I am OCD about the game and they ALL give me grief about it, but heck the BF, geosniffer and I aren't in front of the TV 24/7.

 

Our very natures as humans are built on the need for rewards/punishement, its how we grew up and learned things. A smiley reinforces our good behavior, it should be no surprise. It is basic psychology. But so is the buetiful views, comrodiere, etc.

[+RJFerret]

OK, this if now apparently off topic but as I was sending a "Welcome to geocaching" note to a newbie today I was reminded of this thread.

 

Whenever I see a caching handle I don't recognize log with a "1" find count I send them a "Hi, noticed you found X today and wanted to welcome you to this fun hobby..."

 

Were those numbers not there jumping out at me I'd never know to send the note!

 

Heck, 'twould be even easier if the find count was included in the log email. (Or hidden within a system such as an asterisk for those with fewer than 10 finds.)

 

Just a consideration before they get buried into oblivion...

 

OK, back to the original moot point flaming,

 

Randy

[+flask]

OK, this if now apparently off topic but as I was sending a "Welcome to geocaching" note to a newbie today I was reminded of this thread.

 

Whenever I see a caching handle I don't recognize log with a "1" find count I send them a "Hi, noticed you found X today and wanted to welcome you to this fun hobby..."

 

Were those numbers not there jumping out at me I'd never know to send the note!

 

Heck, 'twould be even easier if the find count was included in the log email. (Or hidden within a system such as an asterisk for those with fewer than 10 finds.)

 

Just a consideration before they get buried into oblivion...

 

OK, back to the original moot point flaming,

 

Randy

good point.

 

i'd forgotten that, but i think what i do is when i see a name i don't recognize, i pull up the profile. i read their other logs if they have a few, and i send them the note.

[CoyoteRed]

No valid reason...

In your opinion.

 

Several have stated reasons here, but I guess their opinions don't count.

 

On one hand you got some folks who rail against those who don't log online and on the other you have folks who refuse to be part of any competition and won't log online.

 

Some feel it's none of anyone's dadgum business how many finds they've logged so butt out.

 

But the system defaults to if you want to geocache and log your finds online, then the total is out there in the world for everyone see, scoff at, view in awe, criticize, worship, and wonder at.

 

Some of us feel there should be an option.

[Mushtang]

Hey CR, do you try and keep yourself out of all statistics in all aspects of your life, or is there something specific about geocaching.com that you have an issue with?

 

Or maybe its just the Find stats, since I've never heard you complain about the number of posts being visible below your avatar.

 

Congrats, by the way, on recently passing 3,000 posts and 700 finds. I've only got a little over 500 of each, so you're obviously a much better poster and a slightly better cacher than I am.

 

But I'm gaining on you! Watch out.

[+Renegade Knight]

I've never understood why people who aren't competing pay enough attention to competing and stats to even have an opinion that they don't like them.

 

By the way the GC.com stats page isn't stats. It's a find count that is only useful to help gage a persons expereience in the game. It tells you nothing about the kinds of finds, the location (unless you want to slog through them and write it down...) and other things that people who liked the stats we used to have were able to see.

[+Renegade Knight]

I don’t compete with anyone, but so what if I did?  Just because you don’t like to compete doesn’t mean nobody else should.  If you don’t want to compete, then don’t compete!

Sounds good to me! So, if I don't want to compete -- how do I hide my numbers?....

In another angle, ICE has chosen to not buy geocoins from any geocacher with less than 100 finds/hides. The goal is to prevent ICE from buying coins from anybody who can just sign up and sell a buch of coins, (take the money and run). What we would like to do is buy personal coins from geocachers who have shown that they are going to stick around for while and become part of the fabric of this game, and maybe evne a legend. 100 is arbitary but virtually all seriouse cachers achieve that in a reasonable time frame. The non-seriouse cachers tend to drop out before then.

 

While it's imperfect it's what we have to work with.

Edited December 18, 2005 by Renegade Knight

[+Thrak]

Hey CR, do you try and keep yourself out of all statistics in all aspects of your life, or is there something specific about geocaching.com that you have an issue with?

 

Or maybe its just the Find stats, since I've never heard you complain about the number of posts being visible below your avatar. 

 

Congrats, by the way, on recently passing 3,000 posts and 700 finds.  I've only got a little over 500 of each, so you're obviously a much better poster and a slightly better cacher than I am.

 

But I'm gaining on you!  Watch out. 

[CoyoteRed]

Hey CR, do you...

 

CoyoteRed gets a timeout - Jeremy

Edited December 18, 2005 by Jeremy

[+Prime Suspect]

By the way the GC.com stats page isn't stats.  It's a find count that is only useful to help gage a persons expereience in the game.  It tells you nothing about the kinds of finds, the location (unless you want to slog through them and write it down...) and other things that people who liked the stats we used to have were able to see.

Yep. As I've said before, it's a tally, not a score. (Though I don't remember it rhyming like that )

[+flask]

Hey CR, do you...

 

CoyoteRed gets a timeout - Jeremy

did you send him to a corner?

 

or did you make him go to a walmart parking lot?

[+Lemon Fresh Dog]

What have I started! 

 

Look....the question is simple.  The answer was simple too.

You could always use the little deal on the lower left and lock the thread if you like LFD. Not trying to tell you to do so - just a thought.

Y'know -- I thought about that, but there's this whole "free speech" thing. While the converstation has morphed, I would feel kind of bad axing it.... sort of stepping in where I shouldn't.

 

I'm sure the forum mods will take care of things if it gets uber-silly.

[+Lemon Fresh Dog]

I don’t compete with anyone, but so what if I did?  Just because you don’t like to compete doesn’t mean nobody else should.  If you don’t want to compete, then don’t compete!

Sounds good to me! So, if I don't want to compete -- how do I hide my numbers?....

In another angle, ICE has chosen to not buy geocoins from any geocacher with less than 100 finds/hides. The goal is to prevent ICE from buying coins from anybody who can just sign up and sell a buch of coins, (take the money and run). What we would like to do is buy personal coins from geocachers who have shown that they are going to stick around for while and become part of the fabric of this game, and maybe evne a legend. 100 is arbitary but virtually all seriouse cachers achieve that in a reasonable time frame. The non-seriouse cachers tend to drop out before then.

 

While it's imperfect it's what we have to work with.

This is an interesting way to use stats -- and maybe that's why I prefer the option to hide them (hey....is the answer still "no"? )

 

They are used to "measure" you -- often unknowingly. So you are rated by the number in cases where the number really doesn't reflect your dedication and understanding of the "game".

 

As an example, if you knew a cacher that was very particular about the caches they sought, hence having a lower number -- would they be rated a "worse" cacher than one of the micro-nauts out there?

 

I have another thread "What came first - outdoors or caching" in which it seems there are many outdoor enthusiests that became cachers and would rather find one cache on a spectacular hike than 15 micros in a downtown core.

 

This means the stats are not really a valid basis for comparison, but are used to compare -- hence my desire to hide my own stats. However, I should state that I have yet to experience any "stat discrimination" by my fellow cachers.

 

Oh .... please, this is not micro-bashing either -- let us not morph the thread to that.

Edited December 19, 2005 by Lemon Fresh Dog

[+AuntieWeasel]

They are used to "measure" you -- often unknowingly.  So you are rated by the number in cases where the number really doesn't reflect your dedication and understanding of the "game".

 

As an example, if you knew a cacher that was very particular about the caches they sought, hence having a lower number -- would they be rated a "worse" cacher than one of the micro-nauts out there?

No, of course not. I'm that sort of cacher -- I get two days a week to cache, and I aim for one smiley per day out. Sometimes I do more, sometimes I come home empty-handed. My personal goal: when I look at my logs, I should be able to remember every cache I've ever done.

 

I love my numbers; each one carries so much weight. One smiley might well represent a whole day scrambling around in the woods in the rain getting muddy and bruised up and cursing a certain local, famously sadistic multicache hider. My numbers will never be objectively high and I'm completely at peace with that; my numbers measure something different. Adding one to my pile is a Very Big Deal.

 

There are aspects of the game I get, and others I don't. I'm completely indifferent to FTFs, of which I have one. I really love TB's, especially if I can do something fun with them. I hate puzzle caches with the white-hot hatred of the innumerate. I love long hikes with one smiley at the end. I like good logs and lots of pictures; I often browse other cachers' galleries. A numbers run is the opposite of the way I plan a day out, but milestones mean a lot to me.

 

I will go out of my way for a new icon (I've considered doing the nearest Ape cache as a day trip which, considering it's, like, a thousand miles away, tells you how much I mean that). Except coins: the coins themselves are very cool, but I think the icons make the page look rather messy. So I seek them out at meets, but I stopped logging them.

 

It's not that everyone is playing a different game, it's that this game has many aspects and it's simply not possible to excel at all of them. Some, in fact, are mutually exclusive.

 

For habitual log-browsers like me, the little number in parentheses after the cacher's name is a handy conveyor of quick data. If I see a two year old log that goes, "my first find, and I'm hooked!" and their total finds never exceeded a dozen, it tells me something about the dropout rate for the game (there are a lot of these). If I see a name in local logs that I don't recognize with several hundred finds to its credit, I assume it's an out-of-towner and I'll check the profile. I like to enjoy the number-cachers' game vicariously. I like to keep an eyeball on the several locals who play the game more or less my way, as we slooooowly add to our totals. If someone is critical of the hide or the coords, or files a DNF on one of mine, I look immediately to their numbers to judge whether they're in a position to know what they're talking about (here raw numbers do have meaning). I keep an eye on newbies.

 

The total is not a measure of worth, but it's still a useful datum, and I'd be sorry to have to work too hard for it.

[Deego]

Wow the Weasel is wise.

 

thats is spot on (apart from the Coin Icons, Lov em )

Edited December 19, 2005 by Deego

[Mushtang]

An EASY way to play this game, on this website, and be able to hide your numbers but still log finds occured to me last night.

 

Jeremy (or another of the Powers please correct me if this isn't allowed).

 

Have TWO usernames. Use one for the forums, memberships in local caching clubs, to make a public profile, etc. But don't log any finds with this one. This will be one that you have a name that people will recognize you by.

 

The second profile you can use for logging finds, downloading PQs, looking at nearest lists, etc. For this profile pick a name that nobody else knows belongs to you. A short random string of letters would work fine.

 

When you find a cache, sign both names if you want people in the field to read your logs and recognize you, or just the "secret" name on the log so an owner won't delete your find if s/he compares online logs to cache logs.

 

If I wanted to do this, I might change my username, Mushtang, to ZXCV, and all my past logs would transfer over. Then I'd create a new account with the now unused Mushtang name, and nobody would know how many finds I had unless they knew that I was logging finds as ZXCV.

 

From now on, all my PQs and nearest lists from my ZXCV account would be accurate.

 

It's a little more work than normal, but easier than changing all my finds to notes.