A Few Questions From A Perplexed Observer

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I have a few questions I would like to ask about TBs just to clear up my own confusion and perplexity. Folks, please excuse me if I am asking questions which have been asked before or ask a very naive question; I am not "into" TBs (nor geocoins, whatever they are), although I will grab a TB (and duly log the grab) once in a while when traveling in distant places to allow my wife (Sue, the other half of our team) to place them in local caches back home to give them some mileage.

 

Okay, now on to my naive questions:

 

First, I seem to be hearing more and more about "virtual travel bugs", which is apparently a situation where a person purchased or otherwise got hold of a TB dogtag, and they do not actually circulate the TB, but rather distribute the TB serial number "virtually", via phone and e-mail, to folks all over the world, to allow them to log it; I am seeing the same thing with "virtual" geocoins lately as well. I am only hearing about and witnessing this phenomenon in the past few weeks, and it puzzles me. Is this a real and accepted part of the geocaching sport, or is this some bizarre backwater anomaly?

 

Next, I seem to be noticing more and more that cachers across the world seem to be filing a log for a cache which they have never found (and, in fact, it is obvious that they have never been within 5,000 miles of the cache in their life) just so they can log "travel bug miles" by logging the TB in and out; this seems to be another variant of "TB virtual miles" or "TB virtual logs". It all seems very odd to me... Further, at least one such log (accompanied by a find log) was for a cache (in a remote country) which was known to be "missing in action" and had not yet been replaced by its owner (you may well ask why I was watching this cache; it was only because I had filed a DNF on it a month earlier wile hunting caches in that area of India; local cachers confirmed that this cache was, and is, MIA.)

 

These questions I have raised are all very minor questions about very minor issues, but I have found both matters a bit perplexing and so, as a TB "virgin" I have decided to ask just to see what experienced TB veterans will have to say. Thanks much for any light you may be able to shed on all this!

Edited October 16, 2005 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+Teamhawaii1981 & blueicyrose]

Funny, I came here to post that exact same question. I had seen loggings for "virtual TB drop" and always wondered what it was.

 

Seems wierd to log a TB that you have never had in your hand; but hey however they want to play the game, I guess...

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Funny, I came here to post that exact same question. I had seen loggings for "virtual TB drop" and always wondered what it was.

 

Seems wierd to log a TB that you have never had in your hand; but hey however they want to play the game, I guess...

And, what is weirder, this is often logged on caches which the "finder" has never visited, often eight thousand miles from their home, although their account shows finds the same day in their hometown.

[+AtlantaGal]

On the virtual TB, I know the one I have is from a TB that was lost in a stolen cache. Since I paid for it, I figure it's mine to keep going if I choose.

 

On the logging caches part, are the people actually logging the cache as a find when they drop the TB or just posting a note? Posting notes is acceptable.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

On the logging caches part, are the people actually logging the cache as a find when they drop the TB or just posting a note? Posting notes is acceptable.

Thanks for your input. I seem to see about 60% posting these vitrual TB drops as log notes and about 40% as "finds". However, my confusion about BOTH species remains, unabated!

[+AtlantaGal]

Well those folks really shouldn't be logging caches as finds if they didn't actually find it, but that's up to the cache owners to decide if the logs are legit. I tend to drop virtual TBs into caches I have already found based on the goal of the TB, but I do that using a note.

[Lord Steel]

I thought virtual TBs are supposed to be dropped into a virtual cache, like the ones in the South Pole or the Himalayas? Just asking. =)

[+AtlantaGal]

I thought virtual TBs are supposed to be dropped into a virtual cache, like the ones in the South Pole or the Himalayas? Just asking. =)

Depends on the goal of the TB. My TB's goal is to visit your favorite cache. So it's assumed that the person who logs the TB has actually found the cache they're moving the bug too. I don't check that because it would be too time consuming. I just give the cachers who log it the benefit of the doubt.

[tinkernoonoo]

I don't know why something as trivial as the virtual travel bug should burn me up so much, but it does. On my watchlist, for instance, I have an actual, bona fide, physical cache called "As North as it Gets". I enjoy reading the logs of people who actually have the cajones to hike out there and sign the logbook. Lately (and indeed all through the summer), all there have been are these stupid "virtual TB drop" logs. Can someone clue me in as to what satisfaction could possibly be derived from this kind of activity? Do people really imagine themselves mushing a team of dogs over treacherous, icy terrain as they type in the phrase "virtual TB drop"? I really don't get it. Am I alone in this? Someone enlighten me, please!

 

(er - and I'm really being more silly than confrontational here, but I still don't get the point of it)

Edited October 20, 2005 by tinkernoonoo

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I don't know why something as trivial as the virtual travel bug should burn me up so much, but it does. On my watchlist, for instance, I have an actual, bona fide, physical cache called "As North as it Gets". I enjoy reading the logs of people who actually have the cajones to hike out there and sign the logbook. Lately (and indeed all through the summer), all there have been are these stupid "virtual TB drop" logs. Can someone clue me in as to what satisfaction could possibly be derived from this kind of activity?.....

What I notice is that a lot of the logs do not use the term "virtual TB", but rather simply state that they are moving a TB through, implying that they found the cache. Very odd!

[+Harry Dolphin]

I actually found a virtual TB in a cache once! Well, I didn't know it was there until I got home and logged the cache.

The proper way to log the Virtual TB in a cache is by a note, then delete the note, so as not to leave spurious logs in the cache. The same should be true of logging Personal TBs into caches that one has visited i the past. Log by note, and delete the note afterwards.

[rynd]

Virtual travel bugs should be virtually logged by the virtual people that virtually find them.

[+whitecrow]

Seems like sitting at a computer and traveling the world by looking at online pictures. Whatever makes them happy.

[+Eartha]

Virtual TBs were probably started by someone who wanted to add their own twist to the game after losing a travel bug tag and the copy. They probably just wnat to get their money's worth. I personally think it is very silly. A non-existant object cannot travel. I don't care for them, and didn't realize there were so many of them until recently when I tried to find a page for one. I don't know who started it. I don't understand how the concept works. And most cache owners I have heard from will delete logs from cachers who never visited their cache. They will if they are good about maintaining their caches anyway. If it was my cache and someone logged a virtual TB and had not visited, that log would be deleted pronto. As a cache owner you have that right. Now if they visited the cache, and still logged a virtual TB and you didn't want virtual TBs in your cache you could ask them to edit their log and delete the TB log.

[+hukilaulau]

I thought virtual TBs are supposed to be dropped into a virtual cache, like the ones in the South Pole or the Himalayas? Just asking. =)

Depends on the goal of the TB. My TB's goal is to visit your favorite cache. So it's assumed that the person who logs the TB has actually found the cache they're moving the bug too. I don't check that because it would be too time consuming. I just give the cachers who log it the benefit of the doubt.

This is something I hadn't thought of. It would be interesting to see links to a bunch of "favorite caches" on one TB page.

When I first started seeing virtual TB drop logs, I too didn't understand what they were. When I realized it was a way to add fake milage and fake places to a TB, I thought it was really lame.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Virtual TBs were probably started by someone who wanted to add their own twist to the game after losing a travel bug tag and the copy. They probably just wnat to get their money's worth. I personally think it is very silly. A non-existant object cannot travel. I don't care for them, and didn't realize there were so many of them until recently when I tried to find a page for one. I don't know who started it. I don't understand how the concept works. And most cache owners I have heard from will delete logs from cachers who never visited their cache. They will if they are good about maintaining their caches anyway. If it was my cache and someone logged a virtual TB and had not visited, that log would be deleted pronto. As a cache owner you have that right. Now if they visited the cache, and still logged a virtual TB and you didn't want virtual TBs in your cache you could ask them to edit their log and delete the TB log.

Well, weirder yet, many of these "virtual visits" by TBs to caches are logged as FINDS for the cacher, even though the cacher may never have been closer than 8,000 miles to the cache location in her/his life! This is actually how I first stumbled upon this phenomenon, when someone (from 4,000 miles away) logged a find and TB visit into a cache in India which I (and the locals in India) knew was "missing in action" and for which recent DNFs had been filed (including one DNF by me.) At that point, I scoured the logs for this cache, and discovered that other cachers had done the same thing) logged visit plus TB in/out) for the same cache, without ever having really found it. I later heard a similar story regarding a remote mountain cache in Nepal (which was also missng/DNF), and the whole phenomenon seems to have mushroomed since then.

 

And yes, if someone tried this with one of our caches, we would delete the log entry immediately (unless, of course, the "finder" were to transfer $3,000,00 to our offshore bank account in the Cayman Islands!)

[+martinell]

So does this mean that I can claim credit for my travel bug since it was ordered? As in, it had to travel accross all of those states to get to me after I ordered it. Maybe I can imagine that it went elsewhere as well - does it count if I just imagine that it was at a location.

 

I guess the idea of a virtual TB seems odd to me.

[Team Dragon]

Having owned a few international caches, we have a bit of experience with people running virtual bugs through them. I was originally amused to have someone running a virtual bug through a virtual cache as they were all notes. When the finds started popping up, they got deleted. I've gotten some pretty nasty emails from people on deleting their spurious find, to which I've always responded that we only accept real finds not fake and their log didn't seem like it was real. If they want credit, they'll have to submit to additional questions.

 

I'll admit I was annoyed when Jeremy removed the top 10 TB milage ranking since mine was at the top when he did so. It was a personal bug that my daughter gave me during a year or so of actively travelling from the US to SE Asia and back and forth. The cat was to "keep me company and help find caches", so the TB tag seemed natural. But since fake logs by people who log caches without leaving home was the eventual result, the removal seems like a good idea in retrospect.

[+Thrak]

I fail to understand why people get satisfaction from logging fake finds and fake bug drops. They get big numbers to brag about I suppose but, since they know those numbers are faked, where is the satisfaction?

 

It's beyond me. I log caches I find. I have only logged bugs I actually physically picked up from a cache or actually physically placed in a cache.

 

I'm also unsure about the practice of "grabbing" a bug at a cache event where folks pass around the numbers for a bug or a coin. Is this an unethical practice or am I being too tight on this principle? I'm going to my first caching event soon so this is a pertinant question for me to be asking. I see that a number of folks have already "dropped" bugs at the event cache although it hasn't happened yet. How does this work?

[+JackSpratsMom&Dad]

On a similar note, I can't quite understand logging a TB "through" a micro.

Surely if you can not physically fit the bug into cache container, how can you really ever state that it was there??

Is it really PC to log TBs if you are simply carrying them with you??

Surely the concept is to place it in a cache for someone else to take??

[+AtlantaGal]

When I first started seeing virtual TB drop logs, I too didn't understand what they were. When I realized it was a way to add fake milage and fake places to a TB, I thought it was really lame.

It's a way to keep my stolen TB alive and kicking. And again, the goal is supposed to be your favorite cache find, so I can checkout some of the cool places & caches people all over the world have found.

 

If cachers keep logging with finds rather than notes like they're supposed to, email them and kindly ask them to change their "find" to a "note." If they don't comply, just delete their log. Simple as that.

[+Eartha]

When I first started seeing virtual TB drop logs, I too didn't understand what they were. When I realized it was a way to add fake milage and fake places to a TB, I thought it was really lame.

It's a way to keep my stolen TB alive and kicking. And again, the goal is supposed to be your favorite cache find, so I can checkout some of the cool places & caches people all over the world have found.

 

If cachers keep logging with finds rather than notes like they're supposed to, email them and kindly ask them to change their "find" to a "note." If they don't comply, just delete their log. Simple as that.

Do you still have your copy tag? You can send that out to keep it alive. If both are gone then the TB isn't actually alive anymore, and couldn't really be visiting all those places. Call me a purist if you will, but a virtual TB doesn't seem right.

[+AtlantaGal]

Do you still have your copy tag? You can send that out to keep it alive. If both are gone then the TB isn't actually alive anymore, and couldn't really be visiting all those places. Call me a purist if you will, but a virtual TB doesn't seem right.

Yep I do, but I don't have another similar item to tag up. And at the time of creation, there were only maybe 20 or so other virtual TBs out there. So it seemed like a neat thing to do. I have had a few other TBs go missing since that time, some I rereleased with a copy tag and others I left as "missing."

 

Now, there are probably more than 100 virtual TBs. The original post wasn't singling out my TB. It was talking about ALL virtual TBs. My comments were just to add perspective from a virtual TB owner's standpoint -- something that was missing from the discussion.

 

I bought the TB tag. Therefore I feel I can use it however I choose.

[+Team Red Oak]

Thanks for asking the question, I've been wondering the same thing. I must admit even with AtlantaGal's answer I still don't get it. The TB tag that is left still has not been in any of the cache's. If you want to see people's favorite cache find, ask in the forums.

 

However, I can see logging a travel bug through a cache though. For instance we had two travel bugs that we wanted to put into specific caches. On the day we went caching we stopped at the first cache and dropped off one of the bugs and then we went to the second cache and dropped off the other TB. When we got home and logged our finds we thought it would be a good idea to log TB #2 through the first cache we found that day. It was with us afterall. Unfortunately, we didn't think of it until after we had already dropped the TB into the cache it was residing and I couldn't pull the darn thing out and relog without making a mess of the logs. So we never did it. I guess anytime we have a TB we could log it through all caches we find until we drop the TB, but we don't.

 

Now I wonder like JackSprat'sMom&Dad if I should log a TB through cache's I visit before I drop it. It would add mileage to the bug and the bug did travel there unless we left it at home that day then I wouldn't log it through those caches.

 

I also am with Thrak concerning the bugs at events. We've only been to one event a month after we started to cache. I don't think we had even seen our first real TB yet. People were passing around coins and TB's but we didn't understand what to do with any of it.

 

Lots of things to think about in this thread.

[+Eartha]

 

Now, there are probably more than 100 virtual TBs. The original post wasn't singling out my TB. It was talking about ALL virtual TBs. My comments were just to add perspective from a virtual TB owner's standpoint -- something that was missing from the discussion.

 

I bought the TB tag. Therefore I feel I can use it however I choose.

I feel the same about ALL virtual TB's. I am not singling yours out.

 

And yes, each owner bought and paid for their tags, hopefully knowing it's a risk to let a Travel Bug loose into the big wide world, maybe never to return. Once it's gone, it's gone. I lost a shoe many years ago under the ice, do I still own it? Nope! Can I still use it? Nope. Could you imagine if every travel bug that got lost went virtual what a virtual mess that would be? I shudder to think about it.

 

So if anyone else thinks this is a good idea, please think twice, you can always make a third, fourth or fifth copy tag using the same number where they make dog tags. Many cache owners are deleting those fake virtual find logs.

[+dogbreathcanada]

It's a way to keep my stolen TB alive and kicking.

But your TB isn't alive and kicking. It was stolen. It's out of action. It's gone. It's kaput. Deal with it.

 

Go buy a new TB and set that one on its way.

[+Nazgul]

Does anyone know if TPTB have a policy regarding these things? I just saw one "virtual geocoin" that had like 750,000 miles of bogus grabs on it. Presumably the original coin is gathering dust on the owner's shelf somwhere. Maybe they should lock those TBs?