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westfolks

Stick To Geocaching

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I realize the site is in Beta mode now, so I won't pass final judgement. My real question is, who on earth came up with the obtuse categories you have so far? I could not find a single category that would really be of interest to me.

 

Ok, so I decided to make one just to see the process. Could not find a category for "tacky landmarks." I mean, really what the hey!

 

The category I did pick was WRONG and the approver made that very clear (TEN-HUT).

 

Real feedback: you cannot change the category of a Waymark in the edit mode, at least as far as I could tell. Would suggest this be changed.

 

Also, please have some real humans help with the category selection. :D

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Gee, that's constructive. :D The owners of hundreds of existing locationless caches, and the dozens of people who are clamoring to be category owners over in the other section of this forum, aren't "real humans?" Oh, I see you haven't logged any locationless caches. Maybe you should stick to other hobbies?

 

My categories are of great interest to *me*. Some of the other categories I could not care less about, others I think are great. That's what filters and favorites lists are for.

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Gee Lep, that's constructive. The site is in beta. Premium users have been invited to test it. Several people have asked how to create a category and have been told that except for owners of existing locationless caches and a few select individuals that part of the site is not available. The OP here wanted to test creating/reporting a waymark. Perhaps this is a virtual they already own. Or maybe its a location they have submitted as a virtual and was turned down by their local approver (I didn't look, does the OP live in western Pennsylvania, Ohio, or West Virginia?). They looked for a category and couldn't find one that matched so they submitted it in another category and it was not accepted by the category manager. They then suggested that the site allow you to change the category of the waymark so they don't have to fill in the form all over again to submit to another category.

 

to the OP:

 

There may not be a category for submitting your waymark (yet). The site is in beta test and the procedures for creating new waymarks are being discussed in this thread. When the site is in production, there may be a category for your waymark. If there isn't, as a premium member, you will be able to propose a tacky landmark category. You can then log your waymark. It probably doesn't make sense to allow you to change categories of a waymark. Categories can define values (called category variables) that need to be filled in when you report your waymark. The variables can be different for each category. For example: a tacky landmark category may have a rating (G, PG, R, or X) to let someone know how child friendly the landmark is.

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Stick To Geocaching, Waymarking seems silly...

 

Now that I think about it, geocaching seems silly too.

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At the risk of getting flamed by someone or perhaps I too should find another hobby.(based on some of the previous comments in this thread) do or will waymarks count as a find on geocaching I missed this in the translation. I just don't understand how this is the solution to locationless and virtual caches?

Edited by fresgo

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At the risk of getting flamed by someone or perhaps I too should find another hobby.(based on some of the previous comments in this thread) do or will waymarks count as a find on geocaching I missed this in the translation.  I just don't understand how this is the solution to locationless and virtual caches?

Here's my attempt at a short, non-sarcastic, on-topic answer. :P

 

Waymark category or subcategory --> Listing a Locationless

Listing a Waymark --> Logging a Locationless

Logging a Waymark --> Logging a Virtual

 

Since I'm not part of TPTB or the hard-working volunteer approvers who have taken a lot of heat behind the scenes, my observations may differ from the true intent of migrating Locationless (and possibly Virtuals) to Waymarking.

 

I believe TPTB are taking feedbacks on combining Geocaching and Waymarking statistics on a centralized profile page, to unify both activities:

 

Do You Want All Finds Listed In One Account?

 

For now, though, they are separate. My guess is that in the long term, Waymark counts and Geocaching finds will be separate.

 

Have my answers delayed your plans to leave the hobby?

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I like cheese.

Hey! me too :)

 

Is there a cheese factory catogory yet? :)

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I like cheese.

Hey! me too :)

 

Is there a cheese factory catogory yet? :)

There's a Factory Tour category, and I know for a fact that the manager of the category likes cheese.

Edited by Jeremy

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Here's my attempt at a short, non-sarcastic, on-topic answer.  :laughing:

 

Waymark category or subcategory --> Listing a Locationless

Listing a Waymark --> Logging a Locationless

Logging a Waymark --> Logging a Virtual

This is probably the best definition I've seen yet. I couldn't get a grasp on why someone would want to repeat a "find" on a WM from a LC point of view. The virtual analogy makes is clearer for me. Multiple logs of a WM take away from the uniqueness of the find, IMO, but I now see the distinction to play WM in a virtual manner.

 

It's still not something that I see doing much and I wish PM fees would go to GC improvement. If WM and GC are separate as everyone keeps shouting, make them separate and charge for each, not dilute GC funding for WM. Likewise, keep the statistics separate, they are different things. Let WM stand on its own. That will settle the question as to its viability. Who knows, when I finally get tired of micros in ivy I might go for WM. In many ways I prefer LCs to other caching now.

 

I would have preferred to see LCs, et al, grand fathered into GC but I've been getting clearer on why not, although I don't agree with the second part of the stated reason that LC logs were "near impossible" to validate. Piece of cheese with a couple of tools out there. I do it nearly every day, quickly and accurately.

 

I've converted one of my LCs to WM. I'm waiting for Groundspeak to advise per their memo when I did convert last month:

 

"Thanks for agreeing to list your locationless cache on the new

Waymarking.com site! We have created a category based on your cache and

will be sending a transfer request to you soon. Please click the link in

the email to accept management of the category."

 

I haven't seen the category on WM nor received an email link to accept management so I have just left the LC as it is and am accepting logs there. I assume I am in the queue.

 

I closed my topic on voting. My mistake for being slightly sarcastic. At my ripe age I have learned that seldom works. I would have posted something there but no can do after closing. No big loss.

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I wish PM fees would go to GC improvement. If WM and GC are separate as everyone keeps shouting, make them separate and charge for each, not dilute GC funding for WM.

I'm starting to come around to that way of thinking.

 

There's so much more that could be added and improved at GC.com, but valuable resources are being diverted to an experiment, and one that I quickly lost interest in. It was shiny and new for about a week. The luster is lost.

 

Charge a completely separate fee for WM.com. Don't float it on the back of GC.com. Let it sink or swim on its own merits.

 

And get someone back working on GC.com improvements and enhancements.

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There's so much more that could be added and improved at GC.com, but valuable resources are being diverted to an experiment, and one that I quickly lost interest in.

 

Charge a completely separate fee for WM.com. Don't float it on the back of GC.com. Let it sink or swim on its own merits.

 

And get someone back working on GC.com improvements and enhancements.

I totally agree Dogbreath.

 

Groundspeak's argument seems to be that normally consumers can't tell suppliers not to create a new product line. True, but the free-market idea only works if consumers have a way of 'voting' with their money. This is not the case with the new Waymarking 'product'. There is no way to use purchasing power when there's no separate price.

 

It's like ordering a BigMac in MacDonalds for a set price, only to be given a half-cooked burger with no salad, but then being told that a brand new product the 'Pounda Flounder' is being given entirely free with each one. So that's alright then. No!

 

I expect the money I pay to be used to maintain and improve the quality of the stuff I contracted in for, not something I don't want.

 

Groundspeak is already in a monopolistic position worldwide on geocaching, and not separating out products/services with separate prices is an abuse of that monopoly IMO.

Edited by qichina

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:laughing: Voice of the Customer studies are how professionals decide what new products should be brought to the consumer.

In my humble opinion Groundspeak has done just that. :blink:

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It's like ordering a BigMac in MacDonalds for a set price, only to be given a half-cooked burger with no salad, but then being told that a brand new product the 'Pounda Flounder' is being given entirely free with each one. So that's alright then. No!

 

When I buy something, I expect to receive fair value for my money. I think Groundspeak, through their Geocaching.com website, has provided a consistently high value for the price they charge for a premium membership. The service they provide did NOT decreased during the time the new Waymarking site was being developed. In fact, during the same time, improvements were made to GC.com (at no extra charge to me).

 

What I don't expect (or require) when I buy something is for the seller to promise me that the money they received from me will be spent on improving a product or a service which I have already purchased. It's nice when it happens, but to order a Big Mac and then complain when they don't upgrade my order to include a free salad just doesn't make sense to me.

 

So I don't understand analogies or arguments which try to state that fair value is no longer being provided at GC.com as a result of resources being diverted to the new site.

 

In any case, a point that people seem to be missing when they argue for a separate price model is that Groundspeak is developing a common code base. Improvements on WM.com mean improvements on GC.com.

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The analogy I meant with the Big Mac is that it's served up sub-standard - half cooked, with no lettuce, ketchup etc inside the bun.

 

OK rather than the already purchased analogy, lets try a rental analogy:

 

You pay a set rent for an apartment but keep complaining to the landlord that the roof leaks, the electric wiring is erratic and there's a whole host of things that could do with fixing. It's better than living on the street and anyway there's no other accommodation on this side of town available.

 

What does the landlord do. Very little, he explains that he's spending your rental money on furnishing a brand new property on the other side of town, so he can't also afford to fix all the problems in your place. What he does say however, as if it's a consolation, is that the any leftover furnishings from the other place may at some future point be useful in refurbishing your apartment, but no promises on the leaky roof, electrics etc.

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You pay a set rent for an apartment but keep complaining to the landlord that the roof leaks, the electric wiring is erratic and there's a whole host of things that could do with fixing. It's better than living on the street and anyway there's no other accommodation on this side of town available.

I must live in a nicer part of the apartment complex than you do. My roof doesn't leak and my electricity is very stable. There's a swimming pool and a hot tub, an exercise room, a pool table in the main lobby, and free cable TV. And the rent is cheap!

 

As of a couple of weeks ago, they started providing us with free unlimited use of the movie theater, pool hall and coffee shop next door at no extra charge! The pool table didn't really fit in the main lobby of the old place, so I'm glad we now get to make use of the pool hall. It's a much better situation.

 

:blink:

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unfortunately, the new place has all the doors open out rather than in so one must remember when accessing the two different buildings whether to push or pull. And when they moved the pool table that got rid of the old set of balls and the new ones are all the same color so it makes it really hard to find the two really important ones (the que ball and the 8 ball). They also added 300 new and used pool sticks. While this provides many more choices, it makes it harder to remember which one bends slightly or has the funky felt tip.

 

(I love analogies)

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All I know is that you can't tell which way the train is going just by looking at the tracks.

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All I know is that you can't tell which way the train is going just by looking at the tracks.

all I know is that you can't tell much about a farmer by his neighbor's phonebook :blink:

Edited by NFA

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All I know is that you can't tell which way the train is going just by looking at the tracks.

Oh no BlueDeuce! Now you're telling me they built a train line thru the apartment block? Did they get planning permission? :blink:

 

The problem with this train is that it's Only 24 Hours from Tulsa but it started out a stream loco but now it's being converted to electric while in motion, and one of the tracks has been diverted off in the other direction, and the train driver's out running alongside it trying to stop it de-railing. And he has emphysema and an old war wound. Did anyone ask the passengers about this when they bought their ticket for the Midnight Train to Georgia? I think not.

 

Oh Chatanooga, my brain hurts.

 

:laughing:

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:laughing: There is a lot of very imaginative insanity driving this thread!

I say new meds all around and maybe at least one set of limb and torso restraints.

And I fired the landlord for sharing management secrets with the lessees. :blink:

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I expect the money I pay to be used to maintain and improve the quality of the stuff I contracted in for, not something I don't want.

 

I missed the thread where Jeremy said they weren't going to add new features and tweaks to gc.com. Who knows what kinds of things we've gotten on gc.com since they started working on Waymarking.com? I know (from a forum search) that the "new system" was being talked about 2 years ago... that's quite a lot of time and planning! Since then there have been notable improvements and enhancements, all made while working on the new site as well. even in just the last few months we've gotten bookmarks, insta-notify to name just a few, that plus the site has been working near-flawless (til tonite) but it's back up and running quite nicely now.

 

having only been here since february you haven't seen the improvements that most of us have. so while my money was going to add those improvements, i'd be willing to bet that same money (and more) that they were working on the new site at the same time. I'd also be willing to bet that enhancements to gc.com are still being planned.

 

I don't think it created and launched itself in one day, and I don't think gc.com developement stopped when they decided to work on Waymarking.com... in fact, just the opposite. I wouldn't be surprised to see features shared between the two sites (I think I even read that somewhere too! :blink: ).

 

:laughing:

Edited by robert

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Adding yet another site to go to log finds is, IMHO, a HUGE step back. This is going to further factionalize the sport - NOT bring it together.

 

I sure hope Groundspeak will reconsider this move and just simply keep Virtuals & Locationless caches with the rest of the caches.

 

Why not make a separate site for multiples? After all, not every stage of a multiple has a log book :blink:

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I sure hope Groundspeak will reconsider this move and just simply keep Virtuals & Locationless caches with the rest of the caches.

That's just it. They've been incorrectly called "caches" all this time. gc.com is just fixing that. :blink:

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Maybe it is time to combine this thread and the other thread about where to record Stats.

 

For this entry, it is about two issues that if addressed together might make things work, as it seems that on their own they do not.

 

You would have to read both halves I think... open mindedly.

 

First off, I think that everyone might agree that in the purest sense of the words or definitions... Virtual Caches (Virts, Locationless, Web Cams, EarthCache and Benchmarks) and not really CACHES. But they are enjoyable none the less. They have a roll and place in the SEEKING hobby.

 

And people want to be able to enjoy both hobbies, that involve SEEKING places... be those the Virtual locations, or the Container locations.

 

Virtual really isn't a good word for it either.. because the places you go to are REAL. I think that is why the name WAYMARK is used instead.

 

So, secondly, people also seem to want to keep both together, even though they understand that the different things that you look for are fundamentally different.

 

Getting all of the STATS on one place might help, but only if from that place could you go off to either Waymarking or GEOCACHING.

 

So an OVERALL Profile for a user account would be great, and possibly solve this situation, but having all of the aspects on one site is too much.

 

HONDA makes cars, motorcycles, and numerous other products... they don't sell CARS and MOTORCYCLES at the same location... HITACHI makes Televisions and cranes... but they sell them apart..

 

Groundspeak has a Geocaching Division and a Waymarking Division and a Retail Division.

 

:blink: The Blue Quasar

Edited by The Blue Quasar

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I expect the money I pay to be used to maintain and improve the quality of the stuff I contracted in for, not something I don't want.

 

And that is exactly what is happening.

 

Locationless Caches have been closed for two years give or take, and Virtual Caches are next to impossible to get listed too.

 

When you signed up for your Premium Membership, didn't you expect that all of the options that were availalbe would still be?

 

And yet, nothing much was said when LC's and VC's went the way of the DODO.

 

Then, after much time and discussion... a new way to allow LC's and VC's was developed to bring back those extinct options.

 

The Premium Member money may have financed that. Probably did. And since people have been wanting LC's and VC's back.... I would say that they Premium Membership money was spent to accoimplish exactly what has been broken for a while.

 

Getting all of the different serachables back and available to be created.

 

And now they are separated to make it easier to search for the classification of seekable item.. physical container or landmark.

 

How is that not developing and researching what the majority was asking for?

 

:) The Blue Quasar

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