Etiquette - Helpful Hint.

[+bigdog999]

If I see a fellow cacher with a couple of DNFs on a cache I have found, is it proper to email a suggestion. I know that I have emailed the owner myself when I couldn't find a cache, but was curious if its proper to drop a subtle hint when I see someone else struggling. I don't want to ruin their fun, but I also understand how frustrating it can be when you are thinking one way and should be thinking another. I wouldn't give it away, but just try and guide them down the right path (of mind).

[+Renegade Knight]

There is no universal answer. Some people do some dont. For some it depends on the cache. Is it supposed to be easy, or is it supposed to be hard? I tend to email half a hint on caches not meant to be hard. That keeps them 'safe' if they didn't want a hint and they can email back and clarify if they really did want the hint. That's the theory anyway.

[+diverhank]

You might want to email the person first asking whether he/she would like some hints. There are a few who get really upset receiving unsolicited hints. It had happened to me once for offering. I personally would appreciate the gesture but to each his/her own.

[+Thot]

You might want to email the person first asking whether he/she would like some hints.

That's what I do.

[+Miragee]

I had someone I know email me a hint, but they put lots of white space between the beginning of the message and the hint itself so I had a choice whether to scroll down and see it . . . or not.

 

I scrolled down.

[+Smitherington]

It is easier if you know the cacher. You can ask if they want a hint or you can offer some partial clue.

 

I have made caches too hard to find sometimes. I have been told by one cacher that he was surprised I couldn't find a particular cache and just that statement made me go back. I found it easily. I just broadened my search area and found it easily.

[+Sputnik 57]

I've had a cacher e-mail me after I posted a dnf, and offer to go with me to the area next time to give me a hand. She had previously found that particular cache, but it is on an urban trail that has about a dozen caches, several of which she hasn't yet found. I haven't taken her up on the offer yet, but I thought it was a nice gesture.

 

(And no, she's too much younger than me to be dating material. I draw the line at anyone born before Apollo 11.)

[+reveritt]

It isn't really appropriate for you to give out hints for someone else's cache. That is the prerogative of the cache owner.

[+Kai Team]

It isn't really appropriate for you to give out hints for someone else's cache. That is the prerogative of the cache owner.

I agree. As you noted, the person with the DNF's can always email the owner and ask.

 

If this is a 1/1 and a new cacher with the DNF's, it would be appropriate to offer some generic encouragement (e.g. "think like you were looking for a place to hide something that size") or offer to go out with him or her to get them started in the right direction, but I don't think you should be offering hints for someone else's cache, especially if the person with the DNF's is an experienced cacher!

[+sbell111]

It isn't really appropriate for you to give out hints for someone else's cache. That is the prerogative of the cache owner.

I agreed with you when I started reading this thread, but now I'm not too sure.

 

Certainly, its OK for me to look for a cache with a friend. If he finds it first and gives me hints, that's OK.

 

How is this different?

[+Harry Dolphin]

Ooh! I feel like such a slut! Unclean dolphin!

I offer advice, when asked. Nothing too revealing. And I have asked help from cache finders. Most often I'll ask the cache owner if I'm in the right area. But sometimes...

Sometimes I offer to supply hints to dnfs on my caches, but more often as answers to questions asked in the dnf log. Never did hear back from the last dnf on my new cache. But someone new is watching it. Hmm...

[+Melrose Plant]

The only DNFs I get regularly on any of my caches are because of terrain and/or mosquito reasons, not because of clever hiding. I always email with hints about how to get around the ridiculously steep bluffs without killing yourself, or whatever the case may be.

 

I haven't gotten any complaints yet. Of course, I haven't had anybody with a DNF come back to find it yet, either. Hmm. . .

[CrafterCat]

I had a fairly new cacher post a dnf on my cache page and he described the area he was looking in, and practically gave it away! asking if he was close! I encryped the log, but it still is in the clear. I'm thinking of deleting the log! I emailed him and told him he was close, but there is no indication that he's tried again.

[+diverhank]

I had a fairly new cacher post a dnf on my cache page and he described the area he was looking in, and practically gave it away! asking if he was close! I encryped the log, but it still is in the clear. I'm thinking of deleting the log! I emailed him and told him he was close, but there is no indication that he's tried again.

If he posted a DNF, how could he have given it away? It would have made it harder for other people, thinking that the cache area has been explored and not found???

[+Jeep_Dog]

I had a fairly new cacher post a dnf on my cache page and he described the area he was looking in, and practically gave it away! asking if he was close! I encryped the log, but it still is in the clear. I'm thinking of deleting the log! I emailed him and told him he was close, but there is no indication that he's tried again.

I looked up your cache in question and decrypted the log. In my opinion, he did not give anything away that a reasonable cacher with a GPSr would not see as they got close to ground zero, so really nothing given away. Even with the log there, it has taken quite experienced cachers 15-25 minutes to find once they were close to ground zero on a 1 1/2 cache rating, so my guess would be the log is not compromising the cache in the least. Your encryption technique seems to be doing the job.

 

Forming an opinion not having seen the cache can be silly on my part, but based on the logs I do not see any need to delete it. Logs are part of the cache history and fun, and that particular log is not "off topic." If it was my cache, I would let the log remain.

[CoyoteRed]

It isn't really appropriate for you to give out hints for someone else's cache.  That is the prerogative of the cache owner.

I'm sure it's different in other areas, but for around here, I agree with Reveritt as do plenty of the locals.

 

Besides, just where is the line between obscure hint and outright solution? If you can't define the line, how do you know you're not crossing it?

Edited June 9, 2005 by CoyoteRed

[+Team Cotati]

If I see a fellow cacher with a couple of DNFs on a cache I have found, is it proper to email a suggestion.  I know that I have emailed the owner myself when I couldn't find a cache, but was curious if its proper to drop a subtle hint when I see someone else struggling.  I don't want to ruin their fun, but I also understand how frustrating it can be when you are thinking one way and should be thinking another.  I wouldn't give it away, but just try and guide them down the right path (of mind).

The Universal Answer is: If the hunter wants additional information the hunter needs to contact the cache owner. No one other than the cache owner ought to be providing 'hints' regarding anything to do with the cache(s) he/she owns.

 

Of course what communications that occurs via email between any individuals is purely left to the descretion of those individuals.

 

However the Universal Answer remains the same, NO.

Edited June 9, 2005 by Team cotati697

[+StarBrand]

It isn't really appropriate for you to give out hints for someone else's cache.  That is the prerogative of the cache owner.

I agreed with you when I started reading this thread, but now I'm not too sure.

 

Certainly, its OK for me to look for a cache with a friend. If he finds it first and gives me hints, that's OK.

 

How is this different?

I agree - if we already know one another - whats wrong with a bit of a clue? No different than a day of caching with friends.....

 

Blindly emailing unsolicted hints to strangers - now in that I case - it is wrong.

[+Team Cotati]

It isn't really appropriate for you to give out hints for someone else's cache.  That is the prerogative of the cache owner.

I agreed with you when I started reading this thread, but now I'm not too sure.

 

Certainly, its OK for me to look for a cache with a friend. If he finds it first and gives me hints, that's OK.

 

How is this different?

I agree - if we already know one another - whats wrong with a bit of a clue? No different than a day of caching with friends.....

 

Blindly emailing unsolicted hints to strangers - now in that I case - it is wrong.

What's wrong with it is: "That is the prerogative of the cache owner." Too simple I guess. But you know what? If I did it, I wouldn't go blabbing about it either.

 

You might want to email the person and suggest that they ask the cache owner for additional help. Not that they could figure this out for themselves.

 

For some reason a Beatles song from the good old days comes to mind.

Edited June 9, 2005 by Team cotati697

[+blindleader]

The Universal Answer is: If the hunter wants additional information the hunter needs to contact the cache owner. No one other than the cache owner ought to be providing 'hints' regarding anything to do with the cache(s) he/she owns.

With several tens of thousands of active geocachers in the world, there are probably several scores of thousands of styles of caching. In my limited experience, a miniscule fraction of them follow anything like that rule. If you don't like it, then have fun trying to enforce your view, or even trying to convince anyone else to follow your one true path.

[+Team Cotati]

The Universal Answer is: If the hunter wants additional information the hunter needs to contact the cache owner. No one other than the cache owner ought to be providing 'hints' regarding anything to do with the cache(s) he/she owns.

With several tens of thousands of active geocachers in the world, there are probably several scores of thousands of styles of caching. In my limited experience, a miniscule fraction of them follow anything like that rule. If you don't like it, then have fun trying to enforce your view, or even trying to convince anyone else to follow your one true path.

Do you mean that I am not The Enforcer? Dang. My life's dream crushed. Thanks a lot.

[VectorHound]

I would never send an unsolicited hint, but a generally encouraging offer to help is OK.

I would never post a spoiler in a log, but have often seen newbies do this. The owner has every right to delete it. I have had experienced cachers e-mail me asking for hints on my previous find... rather than e-mail the owner. I assume they have a reason, and I will reply with a hint, either subltle, or specific, depending on the level of their prior efforts. Cachers who get extra help, from the owner or prior finder, usually acknowledge such help in their Found It log.

How about "Disinformation" ??? I often put a subtle, or tongue-in-cheek, comment in the log. The intent is to be funny, or as an inside joke, usually only making any sense to the owner or successful prior finders, but may be mis-interpreted by new seekers. Has anyone heard of deliberate mis-guidance to make a find harder??? Sometimes I wonder about "coords seem to be 65 ft SE" comments. Did the owner mean to miss state the coords to make it harder... if so, then such accuracy comments should not be logged by the finder. Comments ???

[+Kai Team]

Has anyone heard of deliberate mis-guidance to make a find harder???  Sometimes I wonder about "coords seem to be 65 ft SE" comments.  Did the owner mean to miss state the coords to make it harder... if so, then such accuracy comments should not be logged by the finder.  Comments ???

IMO, deliberately misstating the coordinates to make it harder is wrong.

 

First, it's the lazy and dishonest way to make a cache more challenging. Didn't want to think too much about cache placement, or camo your container, or come up with a creative hide - just misstate the coordinates! I would have a very low opinion of a cache owner who deliberately misstates the coordinates (not to be confused with an offset or multi-cache, in which case the final coordinates are legitimately not given in the cache description).

 

Second, deliberately misstating the coordinates leads to many fruitless searches in a specific wrong area. Depending on the terrain and the people searching, this can tear up the area pretty badly. Not the reputation geocachers need.

 

I consider logging "accuracy" comments the right thing to do, and not in the same category as spoliers or hints.

[+Hoppingcrow]

I think it's best to let the cache hunter make the first move. If I want a hint, I'll email the owner. If the owner doesn't respond, I might try emailing one of the previous finders.

 

Friends of mine recently experienced an extreme case of this. They posted a DNF and promptly received *full instructions* on how to find the cache from the owner! They were very upset, and justifiably so.

 

I log all my initial DNF's. Until such time as I log "I found it," I do not want hints unless I ask for them. I enjoy the challenge of finding a cache, even if it takes me thirty tries.

[+IV_Warrior]

Has anyone heard of deliberate mis-guidance to make a find harder???  Sometimes I wonder about "coords seem to be 65 ft SE" comments.  Did the owner mean to miss state the coords to make it harder... if so, then such accuracy comments should not be logged by the finder.  Comments ???

IMO, deliberately misstating the coordinates to make it harder is wrong.

 

First, it's the lazy and dishonest way to make a cache more challenging. Didn't want to think too much about cache placement, or camo your container, or come up with a creative hide - just misstate the coordinates! I would have a very low opinion of a cache owner who deliberately misstates the coordinates (not to be confused with an offset or multi-cache, in which case the final coordinates are legitimately not given in the cache description).

 

Second, deliberately misstating the coordinates leads to many fruitless searches in a specific wrong area. Depending on the terrain and the people searching, this can tear up the area pretty badly. Not the reputation geocachers need.

 

I consider logging "accuracy" comments the right thing to do, and not in the same category as spoliers or hints.

I agree 100%. Intentionally bad coords DON'T make a cache more challenging, they just make it ANNOYING. If you want to challenge me, come up with a unique hide, and give "dead on" coords and challenge us to find it.

 

Now, as for e-mailing hints. I've had unsolicited hints e-mailed to me before. One, by a cache owner after I logged a DNF, and his I appreciated, because he put tons of white space between the message and the hint, AND stated that the hint was just a hint, and NOT a dead give-away. I had the information I needed to decided if I wanted to check the hint or not.

 

The other time annoyed the devil out of me, because it was a dead give-away on a tough cache, and I didn't WANT a hint, but it was right there in the first or second line of the e-mail, and totally spoiled the cache for me.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say, is if you're GOING to e-mail someone a hint (solicited or not) give them some info like "this is just a nudge in the right direction, not a give away scroll down if you want it" and then put a ton of white space THEN the hint. And be accurate with the initial info, if it's a dead give-away, tell them that, so they can accurately decide if they want to see it or not. Even if someone asks me for a hint, I put the white space in there, in case they changed their mind after they sent me the e-mail.

[+bigdog999]

Well thanks for all the replies. I thought it would be the friendly thing to do, but I'll mind my own business.

[+souperteam]

You might want to email the person and suggest that they ask the cache owner for additional help. Not that they could figure this out for themselves.

 

For some reason a Beatles song from the good old days comes to mind.

Some cache owners don't seem to be watching their log pages or answering their emails. Suggesting that someone contact the owner would be appropriate. Maybe suggesting that if they don't get a reply that they could get one from you would be ok too.

 

We've been given hints by cache owners in the past and some of our queries have gone unanswered. I don't feel it's right to contact previous finders to get hints. Now if someone contacted me first to offer help if it wasn't given by the owners...that I might take someone up on.