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BuckBrooke

Ngs Volunteer Corps

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While I've only been with this community for 5 months or so, I would like to bring up the discussion of a post in the Benchmarking forum, how to go about formalizing a NGS volunteer corps, similar to the National Map Corps.

 

There would obviously be differences; we simply can't assign a map and ask people to get all of the structures. On the other hand, people might be able to register by county.

 

I would like to see some recognition of the hard work put in by folks like Me & Bucky, perhaps by a colored pin type system, etc.

 

There are many more thoughts about how to mature this process.

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I would love to be a part of the NGS volunteer corps. How do I go about joining or did I just? It would be a good idea to give credit for the work people put in also.

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While I've only been with this community for 5 months or so, I would like to bring up the discussion of a post in the Benchmarking forum, how to go about formalizing a NGS volunteer corps, similar to the National Map Corps.

 

There would obviously be differences; we simply can't assign a map and ask people to get all of the structures. On the other hand, people might be able to register by county.

 

I would like to see some recognition of the hard work put in by folks like Me & Bucky, perhaps by a colored pin type system, etc.

 

There are many more thoughts about how to mature this process.

I am working on things at this end. I am not sure that NOAA/NGS will authorize an official Volunteer Corps, but that does not mean you all can't do it. What I am working on, is some kind of recognition/reward thing. There are a few things that need to happen first.

 

1: I need to find a way to track not only how many mark recoverys get submitted, but who submitted them. This is made a bit tricky by the fact that we (the Govt) is not supposed to store personal information about people (like e-mail addresses). I think we can get away with using initials, which is what we have been doing. So make sure you include your initials when you submit reports.

 

2: I need to come up with some system of points. There have been a number of suggestions given. One thing I/NGS needs to be (very) careful of, is that we dont want to make this into some kind of contest. The last thing we want is to have people submitting less than perect data just so they can get to "level 10" or whatever. The idea here is to reward people for doing something they would be doing regardless of the existance of the reward system.

 

3: I need to get approval to get some stuff. I am thinking about stuff like hats, pins, stickers and some other stuff. I am open to suggestions of course.

 

Keep up the good work, and I will keep working on this end.

 

-Casey-

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Hats, t-shirts, sweatshirts, decals are the best items IMO. People will proudly wear them.

 

Thats what USGS nat'l map corops has done. They don't tell you in advance what it takes to get that reward or even that you will get anything. Just came in the mail one day with no explanation.

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caseyb Posted on Feb 23 2005, 06:43 AM

  2: I need to come up with some system of points. There have been a number of suggestions given.

Although I was the one who suggested a points system for fun (and there were good amendments suggested to it in that thread), I don't think that the NGS should use any points system.

 

Instead I think the NGS should just count 1 point per recovery note of any kind and leave it at that. The points system I suggested had weighting on the time gap between the last recovery note and the present. This kind of weighting might not be appropriate for the NGS for the following reason (my guessing here): Those marks that have no recent recovery notes don't have them because the PID is no longer particularly useful to use by surveyors, etc., so weighting mark recovery points by a time gap might be un-useful for the surveying community.

 

One could also propose that another (kind of) point be given for each set of coordinates submitted. There's a pretty good reason for not doing this too: Triangulation stations are: 1) always adjusted, so they don't need us to submit any coordinates and the NGS won't want them, and 2) triangulation stations are often more difficult because they require landowner negotiations to recover, so such efforts will get no extra points.

 

One could also propose another (kind of) point be given for each photograph submitted. The submission of photographs isn't formally a part of the NGS mark recovery yet. Also, is a report that much better with a picture to give more credit?

 

One could also propose another (kind of) point be given for a "to reach" description change/improvement, in addition to an existence confirmation report. This could turn out very badly. It would tend to get people to to submit minute and useless changes, sometimes even with time gaps of less than 12 months, purely for the sake of getting another credit.

 

I still conclude: one 'point' per recovery note of any kind.

 

(I'm assuming that if the NGS 'rejects' (and/or doesn't post) a report for whatever reason, the person would get no credit, and this seems appropriate.)

 

I am thinking about stuff like hats, pins, stickers and some other stuff.

Sorry to be a bit of a stick-in-the mud here again, but I think giving out these kind of things might be problematic for the govt. and isn't necessary because of this: All we'd need for recognition is a periodic sorted counting by initials. Just like they have on public video games. This would be plenty of recognition, especially if it was somewhere to be found on the NGS website! It needn't even be a publicly findable sub-page - just make a page that doesn't have any link to it and we geocaching benchmark hunters could just type in the html address once and favorite/bookmark it (like http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/xxxx/GEOCAC). If the NGS would update this list once a month on the website with the latest stats, people would love it - no pins and stuff necessary. The decoding of initials to Geocaching nicks could be done on the Geocaching site, even if just in a forum topic. (This would allow us to avoid dupes too, without the NGS having to figure it out!)

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Well I don't care about a points system. Getting credit for what I have recovered on the NGS web would be very cool.

 

But hey! If the guy wants to give us a hat, let him give us a hat.

 

B)

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I also don't care about points, and in fact would prefer we stay away from a system like that, as it would make this more of a game or competition. I even think I would get caught up in posting recoveries in order to boost my points (sort of like USPSQD does).

I wouldn't say no to some SWAGG (entertainment business term for freebies, an abbreviation for Stuff We Are Gonna Get), but since I am not a hat wearer, or a big fan of t-shirts with other people's names on them, only a pin would get me excited.

I go with Black Dog's idea--provide the tallies and let us see 'em. In some ways it is reward enough that we have been recognized as a group.

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How about a safety vest with the NGS logo on it as a giveaway! Not only is a great gift we can wear to show off the pride we do in our work for the NGS, but it can save our lives and keeps us alive to submit more recoveries! B)

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I would be satisfied to let those who want points play the geocaching and benchmarking games on Groundspeak, and let the NGS do its own thing, which is continuous improvement of the data base.

 

I get the bigger charge out of seeing the submissions show up in the data base. Rather than tie up DaveD, Casey, and the other staff with going through beaurocratic hoops regarding policies, privacy, awards, etc., etc., and writing programs to sort statistics they don't need, I'd rather see them working to put photo links on data sheets, and correcting the more difficult backlogged problem submissions.

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I would gladly volunteer,I am already a Member of the Freedom Corps and National Map corps.

OH darn, I already am a NGS volunteer.

That's good enough for me.

I got a few initials in there.

Been busy I will catch up soon.

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For me the best reward would be posting an occasional anecdote about how a report from any non-professional, Geocacher, US Power Squadron, or whomever, actually saved effort or money for NGS or a related agency. I think the advantage of that is it would't create extra red tape for NGS, but it would provide a channel for anyone in NGS to say thanks when the occasion warranted it.

 

For me, it wouldn't matter to me whether a mark I found was one that actually helped; I would be satisfied that I helped improve the odds that some mark user would have a good day.

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I just watched a program on the Weather Channel that speaks of this topic(VOLUNTEERS).

 

NOAA'S(CO-OP),of volunteer weather keepers.

The one's who volunteer to keep accurate weather data for NOAA.

 

Francis has been doing it for over 50 years.

He Explained if you have something you LIKE to do, you tend to do a good job at it.

And you keep quality data for it.

 

This has been a valuable tool for NOAA since the 1800's

 

TO MY POINT

Benchmark VOLUNTEERS CO-OP as with the other group we could also form a

BENCHMARKERS CO-OP and supply the Data to NOAA(NGS)and visa-versa,

The data research and recoveries would benifit both NOAA (NGS)and us Benchmark Hunters,Farmers,Forcasters,Surveyors,Geologists and the Public with quality data for a SCIENCE Based climate.

 

We would be CO-OP Observers.

 

I thinkk this plan is already in place and we would just have to adopt it to this environment.

 

What do you think?

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I just started benchmark hunting this past summer, and I really enjoy it. I have not yet been refused permission to hunt anywhere I have asked. But, the idea of some type of credential would be nice to show landowners that there is a legitimate community service purpose for allowing us to search on their land. It could also be useful if approached by police or security personnel.

 

I currently carry a picture of a benchmark disc and the datasheet(s) to show what it is I am looking for.

 

It sounds like a lot of trouble and effort for NGS personnel to arrange, monitor, ID, and issue credentials for a volunteer roster. Their time and effort is probably better directed at other work.

 

I am not volunteering to organize one, but I would likely participate in a more formal organization for NGS volunteering if it were to exist.

Edited by GH55

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Casey,

 

I realize that the problematic for the government situation is hard to avoid, but as a thought, can you contact USGS and ask how they fund and apply the Hats and t-shirts, stickers and such in the National Map program? Perhaps they have a basis for how to go about this as a model your agency or programs, and you can modify to suit the way you work. They are giving these things away as rewards for the help they receive from Volunteers. People are motivated by these sorts of things.

 

I agree with others who feel this should not be a competition, so I would be fine if you had a point system, But I feel the system should be kept in the blind from those participating, this way they do not weight their work in the direction of gaining points rather than recovering the networks as best they can.

 

So when you have such a program and you feel a participant is worthy of having a prize bestowed upon them, send them a post card telling them they have earned an award. their choice of a Hat, Or a T- shirt, a Decal and Lapel pin combo, a sweatshirt. Maybe a Patch they can sew on a jacket or Daypack. They can pick one and provide the size they wear. This way people get the recognition in a style they feel best to wear it.

 

A Place I once worked provided point vouchers for safety and productivity awards. It helped create initiative. They had a catalog with things you could order in exchange for the right number of accumulated points so if someone wanted an inexpensive Decal set or a Lapel pin maybe that is a low amount of points they have to send in to you to order it. If they want a Hat that is more. If they want a t-shirt or a jacket then they have to save and continue to accumulate their points to earn that, over a longer period of time.

 

The case here was that these redeemable points were given as rewards with no point system to determine worthiness. If you saved the company money you could get some points if you had perfect attendance you could get points. If you had an idea that improved safety you could get more points but it was up to the Boss to decide to whom how much when and if to bestow.

 

There are several ways you can structure this but the participant is bestowed points by you, and they have no need to know the formula. Some may be looking at the county lines and some may be looking at dead stations nested in the box scores and some may be hunting stations and recovering however while others may be working to help in other ways. It appears there are a lot of ways to help. You may even want to reward on an ad hoc manner over and above the system just because you can.

 

Anyhow, Just a few thoughts to ponder.

 

Rob

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If I am not mistaken the USGS volunteer program is run by volunteers (or at least it once was) with a USGS overseerer. So no USGS people are spending a lot of time with mailing or other work related to it.

 

So for NGS to start something like this they need some retired NGS staff person to take on the job with the blessings of the top dog and recruit others to help. That could take years to setup, and when peope get tired of it you need a pool of others to step up and take over. The USGS program was almost elimintated about 3-5 yrs back due to budget cuts, funding for the basic operation like mailing costs, office space, etc. They were not going to budget a dime for this and it took some lobbying to keep it going.

Edited by Z15

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Well, to cut down on the cost of goodies I wouldn't mind getting an unused disc, or disc that got returned from a station that was destroyed. If there's a drawer of these laying around, sending one to someone when they reached the magic number might be a nice thank you.

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I'd like to be able to get "offical" witness posts, and some sort of "permission" to set them by marks without witness posts. Probably a bit more costly, but more useful in the long run. Put serial numbers on them. 25 photo recoveries and you can request one. Show a photo of it where you can read the serial number and see it set at a mark and you get another. Set 10 and you get to keep two "on hand". Set 100 and you get to keep 5 "on hand", or something.

 

Permission to set might be more difficult, not sure if the existance of the mark allows the NGS (or their representative) to set one if it may be on private property.

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Fun read. I understand all sides. I looked for a marker today in a national forest, middle of nowhere, one lane fire road up to it. Only reference, a sign on a pine tree. No sign of the sign at the site. Drive to and coordinates match.

 

I couldn't find the mark, but if I did, I was going to do something to help the next guy. The only thing I've come up with is I found some pink "surveyers tape" at home depot ($1.97). I've carried it around but not used it yet. You can bet a tree or two near the mark would have been tied in pink if I could find it.

 

Not to get too tangental, but it driven in along side the concrete monument I think the chance of hitting a utility is extremely low. No one would surface excavate next to it without disturbing it, and most likely a directonal boring machine that got that close would also disturb it. That said, the law clearly says call before you dig. I've seen more than a few marks along a tree, fence, or other markable object without digging though, and many deserve a mark.

 

There's got to be some middle ground.

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Bicknell,

 

I understand your desire to find middle ground.

 

Pink Surveyor's Tape, We call it Flagging, will fade to white in a couple of months and it will be gone in a year or two.

 

As you read in the old post the NGS has no desire to promote damages or accept liability for Witness post damages.

 

Today's Plastic witness posts require a special driver to put them in the ground. It's is not a low budget tool.

 

The best way to improve the middle ground is to look at the description as ask yourself a couple questions:

 

Does this description still really work well to help find this?

 

Can I make improvements to this description that will help the next person find it with ease?

 

I mean, Consider that a Witness post can easily be removed, and so to use it as a key part of a description is technically shaky, practice wise. But what is available?

 

Could the mark be 45 feet East on a hearing of 95 degrees from the edge of pavement or 55 feet from the centerline of a road?

 

Could it be 18.5 feet from a 15 inch diameter Oak tree bearing 235 degree from the mark?

 

Could it be 34.5 feet WNW at 280 degrees from the centerline of a well used trail which runs NE/SW near the mark, 0.25 miles from the trailhead?

 

Are there any things that you can creatively describe which seem permanent enough?

 

A really good description on the datasheet is the best middle ground, and far more permanent than what we leave at the scene. GPS Coordinates pretty much play the Trump card These days. Horizontal control has them, so giving some coordinates to Vertical control is one of the best gifts you could give.

 

Rob

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I couldn't find the mark, but if I did, I was going to do something to help the next guy. The only thing I've come up with is I found some pink "surveyers tape" at home depot ($1.97). I've carried it around but not used it yet. You can bet a tree or two near the mark would have been tied in pink if I could find it.

 

I scroung up old metal fence posts when I can find them. I knwo the local TWP maint. guy and they have scrap piles I can go thru. Something if have to cut off the bad parts with hacksaw. I only use in remote areas (10 miles from my door in all directions is remote), if there is any home etc in sight, I don't do it. But I have 30 yrs experience doing this and know when not to also. Just be sure to place it in the same location as the description says the witness post was. If you don't, it could make it hard to find if it get covered. I have come across many BM's with misplaced witness posts, you can tell if its next to or 10 ft away.

 

Also the local county surveyor uses these plastic sign for land corners,,

 

toughtagmedium.jpg

 

Maybe a bunch could team up and buy them, split in 10 way and it only about $25 for 100 signs which should last a long time.

 

prices from Bersten International

 

3" x 5" x .020" PVC Sign (Survey Marker) (Orange)

Also come in white and yellow

Prices

$0.44 1 - 100

$0.39 101 - 250

$0.35 251 - 500

$0.30 501 - 1000

$0.24 1001 or more

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I'd be willing to place ref tags on trees, if we had a source for metal triangles.

 

Or is getting a ref tag into the correct position more difficult that I imagine? :lol:

 

I'm thinking of something generic, perhaps stamped SURVEY MARKER NEARBY, or even plain. Might help the next surveyor get to the mark quickly.

 

Paul

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Paul,

 

Common Practices are such anymore that driving nails in a tree, or placing permanent marks on trees, even government owned trees will inspire a wrath like we don't want to see. It is now an abandoned practice. In fact it is a "you don't want to go there practice" in the industry. Trees are our friends. None of us want handed a bill for what we did to a tree. There are both Arborists and Attorneys on retainer.

 

You can wallpaper a light pole but driving nails in trees is plain bad Ju Ju.

 

Rob

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Our local electric utility just last week sent notices to all homeowners reminding them not to attach signs to utility poles -- nails and staples can injure the linemen when they need to climb the poles. I suppose pasted-on notices would be acceptable, but I guess technically nothing belongs on the pole that doesn't belong to the utility company.

 

About the closest thing to benign marking might be paint on the road, if there's a road nearby. It doesn't last forever, but I've seen markings that must have been several years old when I found them.

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Holo's paint suggestion sounds good. In fact, I'm seeing that, a lot. Often, I find a painted triangle (with a dot in the center) on a power pole.

 

Even working free-hand, with my poor artistic ability, I ought to be able to get THAT right! :o

 

-Paul-

 

This is great! I usually come home torn and scraped. Now I'll also be painted. We'll see how understanding my spouse is!

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Well, to cut down on the cost of goodies I wouldn't mind getting an unused disc, or disc that got returned from a station that was destroyed. If there's a drawer of these laying around, sending one to someone when they reached the magic number might be a nice thank you.

I have already sent out one "thank you" package. I never heard if it was received or not. I have ideas, and some goodies, already lined up. However, it is mostly trinkets and such... I don't have the $ to buy shirts and hats and I am not going to get it. But there are a few things I have that I know people will be excited to receive.

 

-Casey-

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caseyb,

Did you tell them it was coming?

They might not know.

That might be why you have had no response.

 

I am sure that anything you sent would be gratefully appreciated....at least by me.

I still tell everyone about the pin daved gave me.

And I display it proudly.

 

The other 2 token's TIGGR and I recieved at

St. Louis and St. Charles are awesome and displayed here at home.

 

They are fixing to visit some more of the Signature disc's real soon and even show up at Pompey Pillar.

So I am very sure of the grattitude people here will have,at least we do.

Thank you again so much.

 

Tell daved that the 2 coins, The Stawberry coin that goes with the Geocoin are priceless,

I just did some research on them.

GEO*TB1

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<snip>

 

Common Practices are such anymore that driving nails in a tree, or placing permanent marks on trees, even government owned trees will inspire a wrath like we don't want to see. It is now an abandoned practice. In fact it is a "you don't want to go there practice" in the industry. Trees are our friends. None of us want handed a bill for what we did to a tree. There are both Arborists and Attorneys on retainer.

 

You can wallpaper a light pole but driving nails in trees is plain bad Ju Ju.

 

Not here it is still practiced..............???????????????

They still carve #'s in trees too.

 

But that in following the law that says line trees must be blazed.

 

How do you put a witness sign on a tree without a nail?

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How do you put a witness sign on a tree without a nail?

Uh, duct tape?

 

(Oh sorry, this is the NGS forum. Is levity allowed?)

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Since the subject of paint has been brought up, I'll ask my dumb question I've been waiting with. I know the underground utility locator service has a list of colors by utility, but I don't think pink and orange are in that list. Do surveyors and construction projects use whichever of those they please or is there a plan?

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While out benchmarking this weekend I ran across a line that must have recently been worked on. There were two discarded cans of "Survey Marker" spray paint. Presumably, that's what you see on the road.

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Duct tape will work:o

 

Surveyors in this forum...this is not about you.

 

I have found lots of this going on................I have picked up numerous paint can's left behind by surveyors.

I even have a list of which one's they are here.

I think this is not proffessional to say the least.

And they are Elected Officials??

 

I am stopping there sorry.

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Since the subject of paint has been brought up, I'll ask my dumb question I've been waiting with.  I know the underground utility locator service has a list of colors by utility, but I don't think pink and orange are in that list.  Do surveyors and construction projects use whichever of those they please or is there a plan?

Surveyors do follow the same plan as contractors, for the most part. On some jobs it is necessary to vary from this due to the need for different markings to stand out. The general guideline is as follows:

 

Red: Electric

Yellow: Gas-Oil-Steam

Orange: Communication/CableTV

Blue: Water

Green: Sewer

Pink: Temporary Survey Markings

White: Proposed Excavation

 

I know on some projects I've worked on, most of the flagging is done with the pink ribbon, but something that needs to stand out from all markings around it may be flagged in a different color. I've usually seen this done on drainage ditches, where there aren't any other utilities in the area that would be marked anyway.

 

Hope this helps!

 

-dkwolf

Edited by dkwolf

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I have a new "reward" thought for caseyb. I saw today some VDOT guys out in their lime green vests (I prefer orange *shrug*). They had VDOT and "survey crew" on the back in reflective letters. It was then the idea hit me.

 

What about one of these vests with "NGS Volunteer Surveyer" on the back, and the NGS logo on the front. It promotes safety (many marks are by the road), and also gives the person a more "offical" look when dealing with locals.

 

I don't think the NGS has the budget to give these away, so what I'm thinking is sell them at cost, and you have to make 100 recoverys or something to be elligable to buy one.

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What about one of these vests with "NGS Volunteer Surveyer" on the back, and the NGS logo on the front. It promotes safety (many marks are by the road), and also gives the person a more "offical" look when dealing with locals.

 

This would be very nice. I would recommend not using the word "surveyer", since most of us have not earned that designation. However, I would support an identification such as NGS FIELD VOLUNTEER or BENCHMARK INVENTORY PROJECT.

 

The idea of an identification card, etc., has been posed, before. Casey says NGS is not very receptive to the idea. However, in view of the increasingly large number of recoveries being made by GEOCAC, there might be a change of mind, eventually.

 

I am leary of giving out such an ID to just anyone, and would prefer that someone earn the designation by making a certain number of NGS recovery reports--with peer review.

 

Meanwhile, there is a way to achieve the same effect without government "red tape":

 

*Print your data sheets directly from the NGS data base. Include the headers in bold, large type; i.e. NGS DATA SHEET and the date.

 

*Dress for the job. Torn jeans and a tee-shirt will make folks wonder if they should even SPEAK to you--not to mention letting you on their land. I prefer white or kakhi slacks (especially during tick season) and a "dress" shirt with collar and pocket. I have been known to wear a tie, when working in urban areas.

 

*Purchase a compass with a lanyard, and hang it around your neck. Not only is this a MUST HAVE for benchmark hunting, but it makes a visual suggestion about the purpose for your presence.

 

*Have a memorized response to common questions. I recall a team hunt with a newcomer to the hobby, where we were asked by a store owner what we were doing. My standard response is to turn the data sheet so the person can see it. I grin and say, "Well, we thought it might be time to stop by and inventory this survey disk which was placed on your property 27 years ago." However, on this particular day, the newbie exclaimed, "Oh, we're just goofing off." It's difficult to restore credibility after an introduction like THAT! :mad:

 

WHY IT WORKS. Visualize yourself in an auditorium to attend a play. The actors have placed props on the stage. They are wearing costumes. And they have memorized their lines. The audience instantly is drawn into the situation being presented! Consider this example: Put a man onstage with a desk and chair. Dress him in a policeman's costume. It gives you a certain expectation. Now, put him at the same desk wearing a black shirt with a backward white collar. Did we just move from the police station to the office at a church? And what kind of church? Probably Roman Catholic, Episcopalian, or Lutheran, rather than Southern Baptist.

 

You say you want to look more "official"? Great! Let's head to your closet and see what we've got to work with. On the way, memorize these lines........

 

-Paul-

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*Dress for the job. Torn jeans and a tee-shirt will make folks wonder if they should even SPEAK to you--not to mention letting you on their land.  I prefer white or kakhi slacks (especially during tick season) and a "dress" shirt with collar and pocket. I have been known to wear a tie, when working in urban areas.

 

 

-Paul-

hmm that might work in your part of the country :P

 

Out here if you show up in a shirt and tie, you are either pounding a bible, selling insurance, or "Hi I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you"

 

Most of which will get you shown the gate pretty quickly.

 

My disguise is an older, somewhat beat up Toyota 4runner with antennas and a yellow "kojak". An aluminum folding clip board and a faded traffic vest.

 

It really doesn't matter if I am in jeans, workboots and a t-shirt or the same ensemble with Carhart shorts. It looks like I am just another working stiff with a sometimes boring outdoor job.

 

I have had law enforcement drive by and see the car in the ditch, slow down and wave before driving away. Ranchers see me inside the fence line at the orange post and wave.

 

I don't think the slacks and ties would do too well with barbed wire! Last expedition I probably crossed 6 or 8 fences.

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*Dress for the job. Torn jeans and a tee-shirt will make folks wonder if they should even SPEAK to you--not to mention letting you on their land.  I prefer white or kakhi slacks (especially during tick season) and a "dress" shirt with collar and pocket. I have been known to wear a tie, when working in urban areas.

 

 

-Paul-

hmm that might work in your part of the country :P

 

Out here if you show up in a shirt and tie, you are either pounding a bible, selling insurance, or "Hi I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you"

 

Most of which will get you shown the gate pretty quickly.

 

My disguise is an older, somewhat beat up Toyota 4runner with antennas and a yellow "kojak". An aluminum folding clip board and a faded traffic vest.

 

It really doesn't matter if I am in jeans, workboots and a t-shirt or the same ensemble with Carhart shorts. It looks like I am just another working stiff with a sometimes boring outdoor job.

 

I have had law enforcement drive by and see the car in the ditch, slow down and wave before driving away. Ranchers see me inside the fence line at the orange post and wave.

 

I don't think the slacks and ties would do too well with barbed wire! Last expedition I probably crossed 6 or 8 fences.

Since most of the maps that I use to find benchmarks are topo, and not street maps I usually wear jeans or upland game pants, hiking or work boots a sleeveless shirt, booney hat or ball cap and a orange vest. Dressed like that I have never been refused access to anyones land.

If I wore a wihte shirt and nice slacks they would really be turned into work clothes in a heartbeat after crawling on my hands and knees through the brush with a metal detector and then digging down 1-18 inches to find the station.

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I think I've said it here once or twice before - I'll tell you exactly what to wear to get in just about anyplace

 

First a pair of either jeans, canvas pants, cargo pants, or chino type work pants - not dress chinos, but mechanics pants

 

Then a work shirt - be it a polo shirt (goes with the chinos) or a button down shirt like a flannel shirt (fall-spring) - tee shirt in summer etc

 

Work boots

 

Carhart jacket (weather depending)

 

Florcent vest

 

Metal clipboard (the ones that hold paper inside)

 

Bump cap (aka hard hat)

 

grab a work belt, put your tools in that, hang a HT on it too

 

Pull up in a dirty truck with a yellow kojack on it, with a couple of antennas

 

Put out a string of 4-5 traffic cones behind the truck

 

You'll be able to do just about anything you want

 

In general - go by your local major construction project - you know - a skyscraper, a road project (even just repaving) etc - and LOOK at how the workers dress. Dress like them. NO ONE will ever question what you are doing

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