Image Edit For Garmin Color Units

July 21, 2004

http://www.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=545

July 21, 2004

Thanks for the post Rubberhead...just downloaded it!

July 21, 2004

Ha ha!!

This is AWESOME!

Garmin's new xImage tool allows you to customize the 24 "Custom" waypoint symbols that are listed in the waypoint symbols list on the newer firmware versions for the GPSmap 60C(S) (and I assume all of the other GPSr's that use Garmin's newer firmware like the 76C(S), etc.).

you can upload any image you want as long as it's a 16x16 pixel bitmap in 256 color depth. I just tested it with a few images and it works great. I'm super stoked that I can now use my own custom waypoint symbols in my GPSmap 60CS. WAY TO GO GARMIN! You guy's are THE BOMB!

Who woooooo!!! <_<

BTW, I set my image's background color to grey and the images shows up with a white background on the GPSr. I wonder if there's a specific background color we can use so that the waypoint symbols will show up with a transparent background like some of the built-in waypoint symbols do. Even if that's not possible, it's still okay with me. :mad:

July 21, 2004

Okay...

The background color you need to use for your bitmap images in order to make them transparent is magenta (255, 0, 255).

If you color in all of your custom waypoint symbols with a magenta (i.e. pink) background, then all of the magenta color will appear as transparent when you upload the symbols to your GPSr.

Very cool! <_<

July 21, 2004

I have 60C and it will only let me grab a screen shot. Am I missing something? This sounds pretty cool.

Nuwati

July 21, 2004

All,

Just for kicks, I've created a set of 24 custom waypoint symbols (with transparent backgrounds) that you can use if you'd like. I've placed them up on my web site and you can download them from here (as a small 17 KB ZIP file):

Custom Waypoint Symbols.zip

Here's a screen shot of what they look like in my GPSmap 60CS (note that the screen shot was also taken with the xImage program):

Screen%20Shot.jpg

If anyone else wants to contribute a different set, please feel free. <_<

July 21, 2004

Nuwati,

You have to change the "Image Type" drop-down list to "Waypoint Symbol" on the fourth panel of xImage's wizard (it defaults to "Screen Shot" the first time you run the program). You then have to select all of the waypoints you want to import/export from the GPSr.

I hope this helps some...

July 21, 2004

No go. Are you using the most recent beta firmware, or are the 60C's not compatible with the waypoint manipulation. Thanks for the help. I wish that Garmin and Groundspeak would get to work on a Geocaching Software CD like the other mapsource products.

Nuwati

July 21, 2004

Nuwati,

Yes, I'm using the 3.42 Beta firmware in my GPSmap 60CS. I think that Garmin added the new custom waypoint symbols starting in the 3.41 beta firmware. Thus, you'll probably have to upgrade to the latest 3.42 or 3.43 (or later) firmware in order to use the feature. Sorry, I forgot about that...

I guess the best way to tell is to look at your waypoint symbols list on your GPSr. If you've got a "Custom" section (like I've shown in the screen shot I posted above), then you'll be able to customize them using Garmin's new xImage program.

I'm not having any problems at all with the 3.42 beta firmware, so I don't see any reason why you shouldn't upgrade to it. The customizable waypoint symbols is definitely worth it IMHO.

3k · July 21, 2004

Sweet, now if they would just let you define a custom cursor.

2.9k · July 21, 2004

Really Interesting, but still, I am stuck with a stupid menu bar at the top of the map screen.

24 Blue circles is funny to see.

July 21, 2004

Garmin's new xImage tool allows you to customize the 24 "Custom" waypoint symbols that are listed in the waypoint symbols list on the newer firmware versions for the GPSmap 60C(S) (and I assume all of the other GPSr's that use Garmin's newer firmware like the 76C(S), etc.).

Excellent!!! <_< I had noticed those icons when the beta came out and I was wondering if they were working on something like that. This is very cool!!!

5.3k · July 21, 2004

Nice.

Now we just need to get a handful of artsy people together (or get Groundspeak's permission to resize their icon logos) to make a standardized geocaching set and the software guys together to pick a common set of numbers

If we can all agree that "multi-traditionall" is icon number 1234 if you're using the Official Geocaching Icon Set, I'll add them to GPSBabel in a heartbeat. If everyone creates their own set of waypoints for geocaching and assigns their own numbers, we've undermined the ability of tools like GPSBabel, EasyMPS, Spinner, GSAK, and others to use these effectively.

2.9k · July 21, 2004

Heres my Attempt at it:

July 21, 2004

robertlipe,

I'm no artist, but here's my first stab at GC's waypoint symbols:

EDIT: URL Removed (sorry guys)

I'll try cleaning up the edges a bit more, but they look pretty cool as is.

EDIT: Added following text.

Okay, I've now cleaned them up a tad and added in a few more symbols. The NGS Benchmarks and the Project APE Cache symbols don't look too good in the screen shot, but they appear okay on the GPSr itself. If anyone else can do better, please feel free to give it a go.

Edited July 21, 2004 by TheOfficeMaven

5.3k · July 21, 2004

I'd want to be sure that Groundspeak considered this "fair use" or have explicit permission to use what's obviously their work in this way. If GS says "nope" then we just have to pick a different set which would allow us to be more expressive anyway - I like having different icons for multis, for example.

I'm not sure that the TB icons make sense to put in the unit, but I'm not a big TB hunter. Ditto for the TB mutants like the jeeps and geocoins.

Since the Garmin protocol spec doesn't give icon numbers for this hunk for either the serial protocol or the Mapsource icon numbers, we'll still need to work those out, too, before picking an "official" set.

July 21, 2004

Robert,

I'd want to be sure that Groundspeak considered this "fair use" or have explicit permission to use what's obviously their work in this way. If GS says "nope" then we just have to pick a different set which would allow us to be more expressive anyway - I like having different icons for multis, for example.

No worries... I'll go ahead and pull the GC images from my web site.

I'm not sure that the TB icons make sense to put in the unit, but I'm not a big TB hunter. Ditto for the TB mutants like the jeeps and geocoins.

I don't have a clue. I just included them because I though people might want to use them.

The problem I have with the whole thing is that my GPSmap 60CS unit's geocaching mode will only recognize the closed treasure chest symbols as valid geocache waypoint symbols. It will allow me to reassign the geocache symbol to any waypoint symbol I want, but it only allows the use of one and so using multiple geocach icons based upon the geocache type (e.g. traditional, multi, virtual, etc.) won't do me any good (although it would be really nice if Garmin did allow for the use of more than one geocache symbol - maybe we should suggest this to them - along with allowing longer than 30 character length descriptions too!).

Also, it would be nice to have a way to indicate if the geocache was found or not via the symbol (just like the open treasure chest does for the standard Garmin geocache symbol). I guess that this could be as easy as including a red checkmark on top of each of the symbols though.

Thanks for your comments...

3.3k · July 21, 2004

Wow! Do I feel like I'm in the dark... I knew I didn't have the custom icons on my current firmware, so this got me to thinkin: "What version do I have??

I had to pull out my 60C manual to figure out how to find it

I'm running on 3.10!!!

I'm surprised I can find my way to the grocery store!!!

If I upgrade to 3.42, am I gonna have to re-learn how to use this thing all over again?

July 21, 2004

Also, it would be nice to have a way to indicate if the geocache was found or not via the symbol (just like the open treasure chest does for the standard Garmin geocache symbol). I guess that this could be as easy as including a red checkmark on top of each of the symbols though.

Something like this:

Note that for every cache type there is another symbol exactly the same but with a green check mark over the top to be used to indicate that the cache was found. I also did the same with a red x to indicate those caches that you "Did Not Find".

EDIT (07/22/2004 8:41 AM PST): Okay folks, here's the download link for the GC symbols I've created...

This one includes just the BMP files for use on your GPSr:

GeocachingWaypointSymbols.zip

This one includes the BMP files and I've also included ICO and GIF files just in case any developers or webmasters need/want them for their programs or websites:

GeocachingWaypointSymbolsDev.zip

Have fun with them!

Edited July 22, 2004 by TheOfficeMaven

July 21, 2004

Neo_Geo,

If I upgrade to 3.42, am I gonna have to re-learn how to use this thing all over again?

I doubt that you'll really find it any different using the newer firmware version (i.e. you should be just fine).

July 22, 2004

I'm not too computer savey but, I'm not sure what to do now that I've down loaded this "XImage" Program. After I intialize it and it detects my 60cs - I press the "next" button and the message "What would you like to do?". It automatically defaults too "Get images from GPS" and I can't select "Send images to the GPS". On the bottom of that control panel window the message reads "There are no images on your GPS that can be updated, but you may get images from it" - I then select the next button and save the "screen shot" of what my GPS is displaying. So what do I do next? (go slow i'm a beginner)

Edited July 22, 2004 by Alone

5.3k · July 22, 2004

[
Something like this:

I like it. Bummer on the unit losing functionality when you actually USE the custom icons, though. That could very well be a deal-breaker for many.

(Personally, I delete or make invisible icons when I've found them just so my map gets clearer as the day goes along, but I don't cache with this brand...)

July 22, 2004

Alone,

You most likely need to update your unit's firmware to the latest beta version in order to use the customizable waypoint symbols feature in xImage (as Garmin didn't add this new feature until the later firmware versions). You can download the latest firmware version (i.e. version 3.43 beta) for your 60CS directly from Garmin's web site:

http://www.garmin.com/support/download.jsp

I hope this helps some...

3.3k · July 22, 2004

Well, alrighty then... I'm up and running with a few of my own icons now.

Now, if they could fix MapSource to be able to import or accept the custom icons and save them - then - have the ability to send them back to the GPSr...

As it is now, if you download a customized waypoint into MapSource, you just get a generic "Waypoint" symbol - and the same if you upload it back to the GPSr. That kinda blows.

Garmin gives us more features, and then we complain about how much more these things CAN'T do!

2k · July 22, 2004

Great, now I want a color units even more.

This is just for the color units or is there a program that will let me change icons on my Legend?

2k · July 22, 2004

I just downloaded it and tried it with my plain old black and white Legend, it works!

Not near as cool looking as the color shots, but it does work.

Screen Shot

5.3k · July 22, 2004

Now, if they could fix MapSource to be able to import or accept the custom icons and save them - then - have the ability to send them back to the GPSr...

As it is now, if you download a customized waypoint into MapSource, you just get a generic "Waypoint" symbol - and the same if you upload it back to the GPSr. That kinda blows.

Well, I'm guessing that Mapsource - like their protocol spec - doesn't know what to do with these newfangled icon numbers since they're probably new and off the end of the table. It is therefore renumbering them to something it knows. (That's definitely what GPSBabel does.)

If I can find a volunteer willing to experiiment with an instrumented GPSBabel (serial only and strong preference given to experienced Babel-heads) we can find the icon numbers. I'll throw some debugging goop in a special version of GPSBabel and we'll work from there.

3.3k · July 22, 2004

Great, now I want a color units even more.

This is just for the color units or is there a program that will let me change icons on my Legend?

I dunno... I suppose it's possible y'all might get a firmware upgrade with it. Right now I don't see anything about custom icons listed in the 60C firmware update list. Maybe this is something still under development with more features and more models to come???

2k · July 22, 2004

Looks like all I can do with the program is get screen shots from my legend, I can't change icons.

Man do I want a color unit now

1.4k · July 22, 2004

Weeping! How incredibly awesome! Yet... how incredibly frustrating that I won't have time to play with it before the event this weekend. Gah! For the first time in my life, I might be anxious to *leave* an event just to get home and play with this!

July 22, 2004

All,

I know that I've mentioned this one before (see above), but I'd really like to say it again in hopes that we can put a little pressure on Garmin on this one. If everyone who wants such a feature asks Garmin for it, maybe we'll see it implemented in a future version of the 60C(S), 76C(S), etc. firmware.

Here's the problem...

We need to get Garmin to allow us to assign multiple geocache (and geocache found) symbols via the 60CS's Geocache Setup page. Currently you can only assign one symbol for each (which is the treasure chest and the open treasure chest by default) and that doesn't do us much good if we want to assign the caches different symbols based upon their type and still have them show up (and function) in the 60CS's special Geocache mode/page (currently GC.com offers 8 different cache types). Thus, we'd need the ability to assign up to 8 different geocache symbols (and their associated "found-it" symbols).

It would also be really helpful if there was a way to assign "DNF" or "Did Not Find" via the 60CS's special Geocaching mode/page as well (i.e. there'd be buttons for "Found", "DNF", and "Stop" - the "Note" button is nice, but I'd rather have the "DNF" button if space is a concern).

Lastly, it would be really nice if Garmin allowed us to add more than 30 characters to a waypoint's description/note area as I really want to be able to add the cache's hint to the description/note (which you can do quite easily using the special tags feature in GSAK), but there's just not enough room with the way they currently have it setup!

Garmin's done a absolutely spectacular job so far and so I'm really hoping that we can get them to listen to our requests on this one.

Thanks!

July 22, 2004

Robert,

I'm not an "experienced Babel-head" by any means, but I'd sure be more than willing to help if you need/want me too (as I'd really like to see this get implemented into GSAK which, as you know, is Babel-powered).

-- TOM

July 22, 2004

I had to add my benchmark icons too

Benchmarks

1.4k · July 22, 2004

So how do you get GSAK to use these instead? Do you just use "Waypoint Symbol 000", etc. as the icon name?

July 22, 2004

trippy1976,

All of this stuff is brand new and so it hasn't been implemented into GSAK yet (or even Garmin's own MapSource for that mater). The first thing that would need to happen is for Robert Lipe (or another GPSBabel developer) to implement the new symbols into GPSBabel. From there, Clyde could implement it into GSAK (since is powered by GPSBabel behind the seens).

I too would LOVE to see the custom symbols implemented into GSAK, but it might take some time for that to happen (and for me, they really don't do me much good until Garmin implements the use of multiple cache symbols into the Geocachine mode/page of their newer firmwares).

I hope this helps explain things some...

July 22, 2004

robertlipe said something about losing fuctionality when using custom icons.

What does this mean?

Thanks

1.4k · July 22, 2004

I think he was referring to the fact that the Geocaching feature only allows you to select on icon as a "geocache" icon that puts you into Geocaching mode.

Or perhaps he was referring to the lack of support for the custom icons by popular software like Babel and GSAK?

5.3k · July 22, 2004

I think he was referring to the fact that the Geocaching feature only allows you to select on icon as a "geocache" icon that puts you into Geocaching mode.

Correct. That's what he was referring to. While I haven't really fondled a 60 (I'll be ordering one soon as part of this effort: http://sourceforge.net/donate/index.php?group_id=58972 ) it strikes me as odd that they tie the geocaching functionality to the geocaching icons. It seems inconsistent to now allow this on all icons (at least optionally) and certainly not to allow it custom icons - the very icons most likely to be used for this.

Or perhaps he was referring to the lack of support for the custom icons by popular software like Babel and GSAK?

Well, they just added it this week. Sure, it's insanely annoying that they update their protocol specs so infrequently to cover this kind of thing. (Only within recent weeks did we see the first update to their spec since 1999.) But I can imagine how it works under the hood.

The problem -and my rallying call to software guys- is that code doesn't talk to these things with icon names; it uses icon numbers. A convenience store is either icon #89 or #8220, depending on whether it's Mapsource or the receiver itself.. The custom icons are likely a block ranging in number from X to Y. So software couldn't talk about "multicache icon" it would have to talk about "icon #Z". But you, as a human, want to call it "multicache icon" and the software (like gsak and gpsbabel) has to know that "multicache icon" is "custom icon #7" and the number for that. Obviously, if you use ximage and put your multicache icon on custom #8, the host software won't know that, your screens will be confused, and Clyde and myself will get blamed for screwing things up. :-)

This is why I'm hoping to creaate a standardized numbering base for geocaching-optimized icon sets...

3.3k · July 22, 2004

So far, the xImage supported models are:

eTrex Legend C

eTrex Vista C

GPSMAP 60C

GPSMAP 60CS

GPSMAP 76C

GPSMAP 76CS

Quest

It's supposed to take screen shots, edit the splash screen and customize waypoint icons. I can take a screen shot and edit icons, but I do not have the option to do anything with the splash screen.

From the xImage Help file:

If 'Splash Screen' and/or 'Waypoint Symbol' are not available in the Image Type list, then your GPS unit does not support downloading those types of images.

Does anybody have the Splash Screen option??? ...or are we all gonna have to wait for that in the next firmware revision?

July 22, 2004

OfficeMaven,

Thanks for your reply - ironically I downloaded that update shortly after my post and before I read yours and didn't have that problem anymore. Thanks for the reply!

July 22, 2004

Not sure if this has happen to anyone else but after changing the waypoint symbol; my Garmin 60cs automatically moves it from my "Find Geocache " into my "Find Waypoint" list: not that that is a problem. By doing this though, when switching to the compass sceen the GPS will not enter the geocache mode providing the 3 bottom buttons : "Found" "Note/Data" & "Stop". All else is the same. So I would say if you bought this GPS for that additional feature I would not change the Waypoint Symbol until after the cache is found then logged. Afterwards, it makes a cool idea as a matter of portable record on hand and shows the founds from the not founds on the map screen simply by showing either Garmins' chest symbol or by a custom waypoint.

Either way they look cool and I think Garmin has done a great job with the 60cs.

July 23, 2004

and Clyde and myself will get blamed for screwing things up. :-)

This is why I'm hoping to creaate a standardized numbering base for geocaching-optimized icon sets...

I agree that we HAVE to come to an agreement of 'geocaching use' of these symbols. And we have a golden opportunity to accomplish this since this is the

really early adoption phase.

The posted symbols make a great start. I like them.

Still, some thoughts about which symbols is most useful since

there is 'only' 24 of them, and just to start off the big debate :-)

- Event? Do we need symbols for 'found' and 'not found'

- Locationless. Hmm. Not shure.

- The icons with the red X makes me think more of an archived cache

- Perhaps the happy/sad faces could come to use as indication of found/not found

status.

The numbering:

- What is the best approach?

- Like the suggestion which is nice to the looks on the unit

- Must used icons at lowest numbers to allow for different sets of icons

for increased flexibility (and confusion

- Some sort of defined system (i.e. found cache=cache+1) making it easier

approaching Garmin to implement support for multiple symbols for geocaching

function on units.

- Subsets/Multiple sets?

Just some thoughts to get this ting going.

Guess I have to order that serial cable now...

hbrx.

July 23, 2004

Would a standard set of icons be required? Couldn't you just create a naming standard for the icons and then allow people to use whatever custom set they wanted and as long as they numbered or named them correctly then it would work?

1.4k · July 23, 2004

Well, they just added it this week. Sure, it's insanely annoying that they update their protocol specs so infrequently to cover this kind of thing.

Sorry Robert, didn't mean to imply that you guys weren't keeping up. I know what a challenge it is and that Garmin provides pretty limited support in the way of developer information. Wish they were a little more forthcoming with that information. I just know that when they pull the chair out from under you guys, the rest of us "lose" the ability to use GSAK for this stuff. Wish they had a developer's network.

I wonder how MapSource will handle these custom icons. Anyone know? Right now that's the only way to use USB to load the waypoints. GSAK --> MapSource --> GPS. At least that I know of.

So even if GSAK & Babel were updated, us USB junkies might still find ourselves needing to make that $10 investment in a serial cable Worse things have happend.

1.4k · July 23, 2004

Would a standard set of icons be required? Couldn't you just create a naming standard for the icons and then allow people to use whatever custom set they wanted and as long as they numbered or named them correctly then it would work?

This is what I was thinking as well. You have to put *some* responsibility on the user. If someone can't grasp the concept of "Custom1" being always the first icon "Custom2" being the next and so on... they really shouldn't be monkeying around with that feature lol. But seriously, I think that would be fine and then we're not locked into what those *have* to be. That would make use of this feature a lot more flexible, which is good for the users.

Have you guys thought about putting together a volunteer support team for GSAK? Maybe set up a support forum for general user requests on the GSAK site. All user questions like "how do I?" could go there and be answered by the community. All "it breaks" stuff can be handled by the big dogs.

The help file that comes with GSAK is so great, a few pics and a help file about customs would be more than sufficient to educate most users. Then an RTFM response would suffice.

July 23, 2004

I wonder how MapSource will handle these custom icons. Anyone know? Right now that's the only way to use USB to load the waypoints. GSAK --> MapSource --> GPS. At least that I know of.

EasyGPS/ExpertGPS works with USB.

3.3k · July 23, 2004

I wonder how MapSource will handle these custom icons. Anyone know? Right now that's the only way to use USB to load the waypoints. GSAK --> MapSource --> GPS. At least that I know of.

As it is now, if you download a customized waypoint into MapSource, you just get a generic "Waypoint" symbol - and the same if you upload it back to the GPSr.

July 28, 2004

Hmm, so at the moment, there's no way to upload a bunch of waypoints using custom symbols? It'd be nice for my trip so I could tell at a glance which type of cache it is near me.

July 28, 2004

Hmm, so at the moment, there's no way to upload a bunch of waypoints using custom symbols? It'd be nice for my trip so I could tell at a glance which type of cache it is near me.

You can upload different symbols according to cache types, just not the custom ones.

3k · July 28, 2004

One suggestion. Check your icons to see how they look in night mode. If your icon is primarily black or some other dark color you won't be able to see it if you use the night mode of the 60cs. If found this out the hard way doing some night caches the other night.

GO$Rs

Image Edit For Garmin Color Units

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