Etrex Issues

February 26, 2004

Ok, so you'll notice this is my first post. I'd like to take this time to say hi. Hi! Ok, I'm done. Anyway, I recently purchased a Garmin eTrex, and the first cache I found was easy. I live in an area of the U.S. that is heavily wooded, so most every cache hidden around here will be in thick undersbrush-y woods. The first cache I mentioned was easy, and it was in the forest. I've tried to locate other caches, but with the three I've tried, my GPSr goes crazy as soon as I step into the forest. Sometimes the arrow perpetually points the same way it had when I was in a clearing. Sometimes, it can get a reading under the trees (I don't know if it's accurate) and as soon as it does, I follow the arrow, but even when I turn around 180 degrees, the arrow remains pointing the same way. :huh: Is my unit faulty, or is there anything I can do about it? :huh:

Thanks!

24.7k · February 26, 2004

The eTrex series uses a patch antanea. If your's supports an external antanea that's the way to go to solve the problem. The next best thing is to get a GPS with a quad helix antanea. Patch is pretty good but not as good as quad under tree cover.

1.3k · February 26, 2004

You will probably hear many opinions about this. People have been arguing for ever about what antenna is better, etc. etc. Since Magellan usually uses quad helix antennas, and eTrex's use patch antennas, it always ends in a brand war also.

Personally, I like Magellans. I have used eTrex's and I didnt really like the reception that I got. Usually, it can be helpful to take a reading from a clear spot, and then get a good compass, and use the bearing on the compass. I suppose you could also get an external antenna (on of the re-radiating kind, since the etrex doesnt have an external antenna port) and that should help.

No antenna will be perfect under heavy tree cover. The quad helix's often lose reception also if the trees are dense enough.

24.7k · February 26, 2004

...The quad helix's often lose reception also if the trees are dense enough.

This is true. They are better but not a lot better. That's why the external antanea is the way to go if it proves to be a real problem.

Or you do learn tricks that help like triangulating from spots you do have reception.

9.4k · February 26, 2004

I used an eTrex Venture for my first 200+ caches and now use an eTrex Legend. They are essentially the same GPS, the Legend has mapping capability due to the increased memory, and can also store 1000 waypoints instead of the 500 the Venture allows.

When I'm in heavy tree cover, I have to sit still longer or move more slowly to allow the unit to receive a good signal. That's because the GPS works in "line of sight" to the satellites. If that path is blocked, the signal will be poor. If you can find a clearing in the forest (a meadow, perhaps), wait there to get a good signal. If you're relatively close to the cache, head in that direction and estimate its location. When you lose your signal, you should have a good idea of the general area the cache is in and could probably find it without using the GPS. If you're in a thick forest without any clearings near the cache, no GPS will give you a very good signal, although you might get a slightly better signal with different models.

If you're still having trouble finding caches in the woods, try finding a few more in areas where you can get a good signal. That way you'll have a better idea of how they can be hidden when you get into the woods.

February 26, 2004

Thanks, everyone! I have a few more questions, though. Since I'm very new to this, I'm not exactly sure what 'patch', 'quad helix', and 're-radiating' antennae are. Could someone explain this?

Thanks Again!

PS: I have the basic yellow Garmin eTrex..........I wasn't aware there was more than one model of eTrex within the Garmin make....sorry about that.

1.3k · February 26, 2004

There are quite a few eTrex's actually. you can see them here

eTrex's

The patch antenna, which is in eTrex's is flat, and is located in top part of your eTrex under the Globe logo. They work best when the unit is held horizontal (flat).

I have heard they they are designed mainly to pick up satelites that are overhead.

The quad helix antennas are not flat. From the pictures I have seen, they seem to wrap around a cylinder shaped thing in the unit. Garmin units like the GPS V has one which is very easy to see. It is that black "stick" that sticks out of the back. ALso, the new Garmin 60 series has them (that big black thing on the top.) The magellan meridian GPS's have them inside, as well as the Garmin 76 series. I have heard that those were made more to pick up satelites on the horizon. I really don't know if that information is correct though, as the quad antennas will pick up plenty of satelites overhead, and the patches will pick up satelites on the horizon as well.

For units with an external antenna jack, you can buy and external antenna, and attach it to your GPS which will usually instantly give you much greater reception. Many of them have magnets on them so you can stick it on your car hood. Most of the handheld GPS units dont have external antenna jacks however, so a re-radiating antenna can "radiate" a strong signal to your GPS which is picked up by a big external antennal also.

Here are the re-radiating antennas

Re-Radiating

Edited February 26, 2004 by SBPhishy

February 26, 2004

If you are standing still you turn around your pointer will not follow you. Your GPSr only can tell direction when you are moving by using where you are now compared to where you were. It assumes that you are pointing the unit in the direction you are traveling. for example - if you hold your GPSr upside down while walking tward(sp?) the cache your pointer will face the wrong way. Some more expensive units have a magnetic compass that will not have this problem.

When I get close and slow down - my pointer flips back and forth - I then watch my distance reading to help me get closer. I think I read that I need to be traveling 2 mph to get the pointer to work correctly.

3k · February 26, 2004

Etrex Issues, Won't work in a forest???

My belief is that statement is just as valid as: "If you're really good, the Easter Bunny will leave a Dreidel in your Great Pumpkin on the first night of Kwaanza."

February 26, 2004

I'm a Magellan fan myself (first a GPS315 and now a SporTrak Pro), but I also picked up a yellow ETrex for my 11 yr old son to use when we geocache, and also to use on my ATC, since the mapping ability of my SporTrak Pro is unnecessary out in the sand dunes. I have also noticed that the ETrex sometimes loses reception under heavy tree cover, but not often enough to be too big of a problem, and both units, for the most part, are quite sufficient for finding caches. Sometimes my ST Pro seems to zero in on the cache more accurately, and other times the E-Trex seems to, but of course you have to understand that the cache's coordinates were determined by the hider's GPS accuracy as well.

As Matt said, the compass screen on most GPS units isn't really a "compass" at all, only a direction finder. If you are moving, it will align itself correctly and you can think of it as a compass. But once you stop, it will remain oriented based on your last movement, even if you physically turn.

If you do alot of caching in heavily wooded areas, a reradiating antenna, like in the link SBPhishy provided, may be the way to go, although I have never personally tried one.

February 26, 2004

You should also have a good quailty compass. With one, you can look at your GPS and using the direction ( Bearing ) and the distance to help you take a shot with the compass. This will help you when coverage is spotty under tree cover. You'll also find that when the canopy is very wet from rain the GPSr will have more trouble keeping a lock on the sats.

February 26, 2004

Is there any place to order a re radiating antenna other than from Hong Kong? :huh:

6.5k · February 26, 2004

Ahh yes I remember those days. Faithfully assuming that technology could lead me right to the cache. I soon learned of tree cover, bison tubes, and other disruptive elements in the geoforce. :huh:

The point is don't blindly follow your arrow. Use it to get you close, watch the distance to the cache, as long as the numbers are dropping you are on the right track. Maybe the arrow will swing around maybe not. When you get within 25-50 feet, use the geoforce more than the device. Just like young Luke yours will develop over time. :huh:

February 26, 2004

My belief is that statement is just as valid as: "If you're really good, the Easter Bunny will leave a Dreidel in your Great Pumpkin on the first night of Kwaanza."

Wait.........what?

38.2k · February 27, 2004

I've used my Vista and Legend under very heavy leaf canopies without a problem.

Are you holding it properly? The eTrex must be held flat. If you hold it at your side, upside down, or hang it around your neck, you will lose reception. If you hold it correctly, you will find reception to be fine.

4k · February 27, 2004

My belief is that statement is just as valid as: "If you're really good, the Easter Bunny will leave a Dreidel in your Great Pumpkin on the first night of Kwaanza."

Wait.........what?

Just ignore it....you'll soon learn a new term called "trolling"......

February 27, 2004

Oh, no...........there are trolls here too? Ick.

But maybe that statement means something...........IT'S GONNA EAT AT ME UNTIL I FIND OUT WHAT IT MEANS!!

lol

February 29, 2004

For what it's worth, I just used my ETrex Vista today to GeoCache for the first time. (My 9 year old twins and I had a blast!) Here's what I've noticed in my first week about the unit:

1. Reception seems to be excellent! It worked all day in the forest under moderate tree covering. I never got a notice that the signal was lost, and the navigation seemed to be dead-on in every instance.

2. Despite reports to the contrary, this unit seems to work great in my car! This was my biggest fear since I plan to use it while traveling, but so far it looks like my fears were unwarranted.

3. Accuracy is good. I took the advice listed on the web site, and used common sense when I got to within 20-30 feet of the cache.

I've had nothing but positive experiences so far, and looking forward to more.

PCG

February 29, 2004

i aggree with briansnat on this one. i've used my e-trex legend in heavy tree cover, cloud cover, pouring rain, snow. all things that should affect the reception but i don't seem to be bothered by reception. i've actually found caches after someone who logged a DNF using a legend and said they couldn't get a good lock on the sattelites under the trees.

February 29, 2004

I bought a new GPS72 last week, and am finding that my plain little yellow Etrex gets better reception and accuracy in partly forested areas. Sent email to Garmin about this. The Etrex came from a pawnshop,$50.00, the GPS72 a lot more at Walmart. there is not much wrong with the Etrex line that I can find. Basic functions are great!

38.2k · February 29, 2004

But maybe that statement means something...........IT'S GONNA EAT AT ME UNTIL I FIND OUT WHAT IT MEANS!!

It means that the saying the eTrex won't work in the forest is not a valid statement.

February 29, 2004

There were comparisons done way back with the early Etrex production, and it rated well, and in many cases kicked butt! Mine is old enough that it had the first software version in it, it now has the latest, courtesy of a Garmin download. I suppose You could say I like it!

March 1, 2004

I have used an Etrex Vista for the last 5 months and LOVE it. But then again, I have not tried any other brands so I don't have anything to compare with. One thing I did notice about my vista is that if I get in a heavily wooded area, I have to turn off WAAS in order to get a decent signal. In Fact, I have decided to pretty much operate with WAAS turned off most of the time and have not seen any ill effects. You may want to turn it off in the setup menu and see if that helps....

1.3k · March 1, 2004

In Fact, I have decided to pretty much operate with WAAS turned off most of the time and have not seen any ill effects. You may want to turn it off in the setup menu and see if that helps....

From what I have heard, many people seem to do that. It seems that the Meridians use WAAS when it's available, and it doesn't when it's not. I wonder if there is a difference between the eTrex's WAAS OFF position, compared to the Meridians normal position while not receiving WAAS.

March 2, 2004

But maybe that statement means something...........IT'S GONNA EAT AT ME UNTIL I FIND OUT WHAT IT MEANS!!

It means that the saying the eTrex won't work in the forest is not a valid statement.

indeed, it is a comment from someone who is hysterically assuming you are bashing etrex's. pay no mind, but check out the window first if you hear the doorbell in the middle of the night. those people can be touchy.

a few things...

the gps you have is fine. It really doesn't matter what kind you have. really.

most gps's are iffy at best under full forest canopy. that is normal, most (although not all) people report some degree of this problem.

your problem is one of expectations. you don't really need to have the gps on the entire time you are heading for the cache. imo, that's a good way to drive up the price of energizer stock. (yeah, yeah, rechargable. whatever.) If the GPS says you have a mile to go, west, turn the dadgum thing off and hike a mile west, then turn it back on.

A newbie mistake (mea culpa) is to trust the arrow more than you trust the terrain. If the cache is indeed a mile west, turn the GPS off and look for a way to go a mile west using trails, unless you are out in the middle of BFE. Even then, at least look for a way to use the terrain. In most cases there is a trail that will take you near the cache area. A GPS is not a substitute for a trail map.

consider that the cache hider posted coordinates, which means that his/her GPS worked at the cache site. The likelyhood is yours will too - it is mildly bad form to hide a cache underneath tree cover so dense that you can't get signal. (otoh, some people think it is fun to hide a magnetic in a tunnel and then pace off to the edge, climb up, pace back and take the reading.)

also, yes. the arrow is determined by comparing successive positions. if you stop and then just turn around the arrow won't adjust until you move a bit in some direction. if you move into an area where you have no signal, the arrow, if there even is one, is worthless. if you hold the gps down and walk, then hold it up again, the arrow (which assumes, sorta, that the gps is being held flat facing forward, at least for most gpss), will be wrong - until you have traveled a bit more, holding it as it expects to be held, in the clear. get the picture?

Tthe arrow is not your friend, don't trust it much unless you are holding the unit out in front of you as you are walking along in a clear area. for example, should you be having trouble in that last 40 feet or so, try just walking at a tangent to the area you think the cache is in and see where the arrow gives you a hard 90 degrees right or left. do this more than once, using different tangents.

Don't forget to enter your car as a waypoint before you set out.

March 2, 2004

I have the Etrex Vista. With this unit (electronic compass) the arrow IS your friend. Of course you need to use common sense when using it (walk AROUND the tree instead of running into it like the arrow said to :rolleyes: ) but on units WITH a real compass (one NOT based on GPS) it really works well.

I have had VERY good luck in forests (I use mine for hunting....find THE tree in pitch black in a forest normally 20' accuracy) and unexpectedly, GREAT results in the car! I have it proped VERTICALLY agains't the dash and windshield...I often get accuracy readings of 6' !!!

Now, I am a perfectionist, so I just HAD to order my re-radiating antenae...I'll post my results.

March 5, 2004

You should also have a good quailty compass. With one, you can look at your GPS and using the direction ( Bearing ) and the distance to help you take a shot with the compass. This will help you when coverage is spotty under tree cover. You'll also find that when the canopy is very wet from rain the GPSr will have more trouble keeping a lock on the sats.

Very good suggestion - and I just happen to own a Brunton Eclipse 8099.

Now I think I'll go back to the first cache I looked for, under the trees after a rain, and see if I can find it. That would give me TWO caches found!

- Fat Freddy, newbie

4.7k · March 5, 2004

Etrex Issues, Won't work in a forest???

My belief is that statement is just as valid as: "If you're really good, the Easter Bunny will leave a Dreidel in your Great Pumpkin on the first night of Kwaanza."

man, you've changed. you used to make sense. besides, it wasn't a statement. it was a panicky new-kid question.

THAT said, i have an etrex. my caching partner has a magellan. we both have had a couple of kinds of each. we both like'em. we can each enter coordinates in the other's GPS. we each recognize that under some conditions and on some days one gets better receptionthan the other. it breaks about even, so don't nobody send me brand war flames, ok?

SOMETIMES if you're compass is turned on your arrow will be squidgy, but you said yellow, right? so that's out... your arrow is less reliable than your "distance from cache" numbers. and i don't care what anyone says, i have a PILE of anecdotal eveidence that my arrow is less reliable when my battery power is about to go.

if you have it set for "heading" instead of "bearing" and you don't know the difference, your arrow may be pointing in what you think is the wrong direction, as well.

but under heavy tree cover or on the wrong side of a hill, you may be on your own.

i have a friend who got all excited when he got his helical antenna'd GPS, but it was a rude awakening when he realized that everyone ELSE's coordinates were still prone to the usual amount of error.

March 5, 2004

I was expecting miracles when I added a new GPS72, with WAAS, to My collection. It works fine, but "Ole Yaller" runs right along with it, sometimes in the lead.

I suppose when a GPS gets so good it leads You right up to a micro, and highlights it with a laser, that would get boring pretty soon. The challenge is a big part of the fun.

March 6, 2004

Don't sweat it! I use a Yellow eTrex and have never had issues, in fact another yellow eTrex was the only GPS to score dead center at my event's accuracy test.

I've also seen quad-helix units lose reception where my eTrex kept it. Magellans don't let the user know it's been lost as readily...

Basically, don't expect the arrow to respond quickly. The compass recommendation is great--but you don't need to spend big money, I used a keychain compass from the start.

All the above recommendations are good except one--DON'T TURN THE UNIT OFF.

In fact, if you turn it on as you are driving to the site, it'll have a greater chance to receive signals from more satellites. Once they are locked in, it can lose them but recover instantly.

IE, the guy who arrives at parking and turns on his GPS has to wait for it to find 3+ sats before it knows where it is. If he enters the woods, he might never get clear signals long enough to improve his accuracy.

If your unit can "listen" to half-a-dozen sats or so before you enter the woods, if one or two don't make it through, it still knows where it is and can direct you! If you go under a cliff or hold your hand over it to block the signals, as soon as you get clear it'll instantly pickup the signals again.

The same applies to all manufacturers and all antennas save re-radiating antennas.

Don't sweat it, you'll quickly learn to maximize it's capabilities!

hth,

Randy

3.8k · March 6, 2004

Having used a SporTrak and a Legend, I can say the SporTrak does at least appear to hold a lock better, but like someone else suggested, it just be that it's not telling you. And like someone else suggested, sometimes the SporTrak will lose lock while the Etrex won't. I've seen that happen as well.

You'll be fine with either brand.

Etrex Issues

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