Puget Sound Geo Hot Potato--refinements

[+WeightMan]

This is the spot for those who would like to suggest improvements for future versions of this game.

 

I will start the ball rolling with one thought that someone on Team North mentioned the other day. In the current game the blight seems to be a large factor in the scoring. Currently there are four blights worth 10 points each. In future games it might be better to have more blights worth fewer points. One suggestion was 10 blights worth 5 points each. As it stands now one team need only get two blight points added to their score to gain an awesome lead over the other team. With more blights worth fewer points that advantage would be negated somewhat.

[+vds]

This is the spot for those who would like to suggest improvements for future versions of this game.

Hmmm, lets see...

 

Relax the current ban of multi-caches to at least some extent, maybe permit a one or two waypoint multi.

 

Add a restriction where the bug can't go into any cache more than once, making 'course management' part of the strategy as well.

 

Provide bonus points for moves that get the bug really hopping, bonus points if it can be moved and logged in under XXX hours.

 

Perhaps redraw the boundaries a bit as well, based on some analysis of the caches in play, try to make sure that each side has a comparable set of targets maybe.

Edited February 12, 2004 by vds

[+The Jester]

I was wondering about changing the scoring. A shorter period before points add on would encourage moving the potato more. It seems recently to wait most of the alloted time before moving.

 

The other idea I had was for points for placement are on a sliding scale. The quicker it's moved the more points. Starts at 10, each hour it sits it loses a point, to a minimum of say three points for example. How to deal with overnight placements and delays from placement to log should be addressed with this system.

 

Also the playing field seems unbalanced. The north is over 35 miles deep, while the south is 17.5 (using I-5 border crossing).

 

Craig (The Jester)

[+vds]

Also the playing field seems unbalanced. The north is over 35 miles deep, while the south is 17.5 (using I-5 border crossing).

And we need better border guards at that crossing too :-)

[+Stump]

I think these are mostly excellent suggestions. Except the suggestions of points for moving it quickly. With more blight times you'd accomplish this without making it complicated.

 

I think we should get rid of the 5 points for placement rule. It's just a ping pong game with a long scoreboard.

 

Most importantly we need to make sure ALL team members have full buy in and agreement on the rules. Obviously, there were at least 3 on Team South who didn't buy into the rules and they quit in the middle because of it. We also seem to have a problem with people not fully buying into the strict rules of when you can and cannot enter a park. I'm not a big fan of them myself but they're there.

 

I think we need to go back to the basics and remember what Hot Potato is. It's passing a potato back and forth. If you have the potato when the whatever goes off you lose. Then you play again. For the sake of a game you count how many times you lose and the one who loses least wins.

[+WeightMan]

This is the spot for those who would like to suggest improvements for future versions of this game.

Hmmm, lets see...

 

Relax the current ban of multi-caches to at least some extent, maybe permit a one or two waypoint multi.

 

With this game, multis should not be a problem because the dropping team will more likely not have found that particular cache, but the receiving team will have. If Team North wants to place the bug in a multi of one or two relatively easy steps, then Team South will more likely than not have already found the cache and not have to run throught the early waypoints. I would, however, disallow multis with puzzle solving aspects. I don't think the dropping team would pick one of these anyhow since they could not be assured of finding the cache quickly. The cache page should contain enough information to determine that the cache would fit under this. A good example of a cache that should be allowed is Twin Peaks #1. In this one the cache page clearly states that the final coordinates are given at the first waypoint. Twin Peaks #2 may be allowable since the coordinates for that one are in Twin Peaks #1.

[+runhills]

Before we get too involved with refining the rules; I would like to see the game objective defined! Why are we adding multis?

[+vds]

Before we get too involved with refining the rules; I would like to see the game objective defined! Why are we adding multis?

My intent was to get the pool of possible caches increased. There are all kinds of easy offset caches that are listed as multis currently that are out of play, no reason for them to not be valid for the game. Twin Peaks is one good example.

[+The Jester]

Gee, does that mean that my Micro Multi Cache GC31B9 would be disallowed?

[+vds]

Gee, does that mean that my Micro Multi Cache GC31B9 would be disallowed?

Wow, talk about your home field advantage, eh ?

 

If we had a Germany hot potato, GCHG30 (12-part) would be disallowed too. I might try that one next week if I get a day to explore while there on business, then again I might just explore some of those nice Munich beers. Naah, I know the answer. Mmmmm....beer....can you imagine a 12-part where you get to the end and the cache was plundered ? I'd likely jump off of the site of GCCB98 nearby.

[+travisl]

12 parts? I don't feel so bad about my nine-part multi cache now.

[+The Jester]

The current scoring does seem a little, how should I say this, boring. We get five, they get five, we get... until a blight. How about dropping the five point per drop rule and modify the extra time rule. Say one point for every 8 hours, with a full overnight 'dead zone' (no moving, no points); knowing that some parks will have more strict no enter rules. Maybe use the hours of 6am to 10pm are the caching hours. This would keep the potato moving, with some minor penelty for letting it sit. With more blights the single points wouldn't be a big factor, but would add a little interest.

 

Opening up the playing field would enhance the game for me. How about all of King and all of Pierce counties with a height restriction (1500 was used because of snow concerns). This would limit most of the eastern portions counties.

 

Still thinking, still enjoying the game...

 

Craig (The Jester)

[+The Jester]

Just a quick thought: If multi's are allowed, does the potato have to be placed in the cache, or could it be in one the waypoint containers? That would make it a little more difficult for those who have already done the cache to just stop by and grab it.

 

Craig (The Jester)

[+Perrin]

Maybe allow the first wp of a multi, if its big enough to hold the tater. I'm assuming the concern with allowing multi's isn't as much how much longer it takes to find one. But more that the wp's along the way could disappear and then leave the final cache inaccessible by those in the game that have not found it yet.

[+romulusnr]

I think much of the same rules and scoring could be kept, and the game spiced up and made much more strategically interesting with three (or maybe even more) teams -- say North, South, and... East?

 

It's not really Hot Potato with only two 'players', now is it?

[+Og's outfit]

I agree, Rom. I also think pretty much all caches should be open for drops. The only off limit caches should be ones that are "closed for winter" whether the owner archives them or not. I think "Unknown" caches should be open for drops.

 

If the game continues on as a county challenge, I would ask that ALL caches in the counties be open, not just an area where players live.

 

Just a few thoughts,

Og

[+evergreenhiker!]

I agree, Rom. I also think pretty much all caches should be open for drops. The only off limit caches should be ones that are "closed for winter" whether the owner archives them or not. I think "Unknown" caches should be open for drops.

 

If the game continues on as a county challenge, I would ask that ALL caches in the counties be open, not just an area where players live.

 

Just a few thoughts,

Og

No...puzzle caches can be tough to solve. They shouldn't be allowed. I think all other types should be though except for category 5 terrain caches which mean you need special equipment or the terrain is very tough...e.g. my virgin Dream Cache.

[+Wander Lost]

The three hour rule before we could grab the bug again was to short. But 6 days is to long. I think after 24 hrs if the bug hasn't moved than either team should have a chance to move it again. Not that that actually happened but it could have.

 

Another thing, other than the threat of blight, there was no urgancy in moving the bug before the 24hrs were up. It might make scoring a bit harder, but I'd like to see bonus points for the retrieving team for getting it picked up and moved quickly.

[+Og's outfit]

AHH, I've been eyeing that Dream cache! Is it do-able this time of year?

 

And why not puzzle caches? It would add an all new dimension to the game. Lets say....... only puzzles that heve been found at least once?

 

Og

[+evergreenhiker!]

AHH,  I've been eyeing that Dream cache!  Is it do-able this time of year?

 

And why not puzzle caches?  It would add an all new dimension to the game.  Lets say.......  only puzzles that heve been found at least once?

 

Og

Well, the lake is at 3451. The taylor river road trail is at roughly 1650-1700 elevation. You could possibly make it in the winter...all the brush is leaveless and the snow at higher elevations might make the going easier. The stream is probably a difficult route right now. If you go, stick to the right side of the main stream and keep left of the fork that goes to Pothole lake. Do not go alone!

 

as for puzzle caches, there's a chance the bug would get stuck in it for a bit. We'd like to see it hopping around. I just don't think puzzle caches are a good idea.

Edited February 18, 2004 by evergreenhiker!

[+Stump]

Another thing, other than the threat of blight, there was no urgancy in moving the bug before the 24hrs were up. It might make scoring a bit harder, but I'd like to see bonus points for the retrieving team for getting it picked up and moved quickly.

I think you need to add enough blights where there's real incentive to move the sucker. Bonus points would get real messy especially with park closures and such.

 

Agree about puzzle caches. Definitely have to be off limits if for no other reason than it ruins it for the owner when people start sharing the solutions with teammates. Also have to disallow webcams and virtuals. Just to make sure no one gets creative.

 

More than one county would be interesting. A year long game including all 39 counties with 100+ blight times! Or maybe a little smaller scale. Kitsap/Snohomish/King/Pierce/Thurston

[+Kfam]

What if scoring was simplified to a point per hour based on timestamped placement logs? Website downtime could be just bonus blight times.

That and a "Don't ask, Dont tell" policy on actual times some of these caches are visited.

[+WeightMan]

What if scoring was simplified to a point per hour based on timestamped placement logs? Website downtime could be just bonus blight times.

That and a "Don't ask, Dont tell" policy on actual times some of these caches are visited.

Rather than "don't ask, don't tell" I would prefer to see a down time each night. To make it easier for scoring make it six hours. That could be either 11PM to 6AM or Midnight to 6AM. Many parks are closed dusk to dawn, but there are also a good number that are closed after 9PM. I have been noticing a number of Seattle parks that close 11PM to 4AM. By saying "don't ask, don't tell" we are telling cachers to go ahead and enter closed parks, just don't tell me about it. That condones breaking the law and we should not do that.

[+CrimsonWrath]

I'd like to see an automated website that would automatically tally up the points and perhaps even display a running clock of how long it has been sitting. No offense to gaviidae, who did a great job keeping everyone up to speed, but the current site was generally a few days behind the current action. I'd be happy to offer my services since I can't get out and Geocache as often as I'd like anymore with a 6mo old at home.

 

I would propose that the automated website should allow visitors to log the activity and automatically calculate the points awarded. The score would only be official after being approved by a referee; offical and unofficial score.