Spoilers... Whats appropriate in the log description.

[+Team ATV Caching Crew]

Hey There Cachers...

 

I have a question... when logging a find... and the cache owner then contacts you basically saying please remove your spoilers from your log... do you have to??

 

I thought that I was pretty vauge <sp?> when writing the log and didnt describe the location. I just noted that the "diferent species was different than what was near there" and that was what tipped me...

 

Now I assumed that logs were for users... and it does say "Warning spoilers may be contained in logs" when you go throught there.

 

My question is when is it ok to respond back to a cacher " Sorry you feel it is a spoiler but in my opinion it isnt... I am describing my experience in finding it." Even if the "spoiler" part is encrypted.

 

Am I off base here??

 

Team ATV Caching Crew

[+Stunod]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Team ATV Caching Crew:

My question is when is it ok to respond back to a cacher " Sorry you feel it is a spoiler but in my opinion it isnt... I am describing my experience in finding it." Even if the "spoiler" part is encrypted.

 

Am I off base here??

---

 

You can say anything you want...but the cache owners next step will be to delete your log. Do what they ask and be done with it.

 

[GeoVet]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Team ATV Caching Crew:

Hey There Cachers...

 

I have a question... when logging a find... and the cache owner then contacts you basically saying please remove your spoilers from your log... do you have to??

 

I thought that I was pretty vauge <sp?> when writing the log and didnt describe the location. I just noted that the "diferent species was different than what was near there" and that was what tipped me...

 

Now I assumed that logs were for users... and it does say "Warning spoilers may be contained in logs" when you go throught there.

 

My question is when is it ok to respond back to a cacher " Sorry you feel it is a spoiler but in my opinion it isnt... I am describing my experience in finding it." Even if the "spoiler" part is encrypted.

 

Yes, I think so, kind of. If it weren't for cache hiders, there would be no game. Their primacy is implied, often overlooked or minimalized, but recognized and understood by long time players. Besides, the hiders can delete or encrypt anything in your log entry. (They were being civil by asking.)

 

Am I off base here??

 

Team ATV Caching Crew

---

 

If there is a pole at the North Pole, I bet there's some dead explorer guy with his tongue stuck to it.

[+briansnat]

If they ask you to remove what they consider to be a spoiler, it's nice to do so (they can delete it anyway, so you may as well). Some cache owners put a lot of time and effort into a clever, or otherwise challenging hide and don't want to see someone give away the secret in the log...even if encryted.

 

There are ways to document your hunting experience, without giving it away. Using non specific words is one way. Instead of saying "I reached into the drainpipe and found the cache", say something like "I checked several objects and discovered the cache inside one".

 

Instead of saying, "after checking several hollow stumps, found the cache in the 4th one I looked in", you can say "I checked several likely hiding spots and eventually found the cache".

 

Remember, it's the cache owners cache and his rules. If he doesn't mid a spoiler in his logs, then don't sweat it. If he does, it's a courtesy to comply with his request and remove it.

 

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

 

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on October 06, 2003 at 09:50 AM.]

[+Team GPSaxophone]

You might suggest encrypting your log, but the final word comes from the cache owner. You don't want them deleting your log completely, do you?

 

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness

[ChiefPig]

I had a log that was just removed by the owner of the cache without even getting an email explaining why it was removed. If I had a spoiler that he did not like, I would have been happy to remove it. But I guess the cache owner thinks he is god and can do whatever he wants. Be happy that the owner is responsible enough to communicate with you and just remove your spoiler. Hopefully, most owners are like him.

[+Alan2]

If a cache owner is treating you in a way you don't like being treated, and you can't work it out with them, (privately, not on the cache page), stop going to their caches and tell them why.

 

If an owner is really acting "crazy", and others follow this procedure, he'll get the message. And if he doesn't, he doesn't. Can't change the world.

 

Alan

[+Team ATV Caching Crew]

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan2:

If a cache owner is treating you in a way you don't like being treated, and you can't work it out with them, (privately, not on the cache page), stop going to their caches and tell them why.

 

If an owner is really acting "crazy", and others follow this procedure, he'll get the message. And if he doesn't, he doesn't. Can't change the world.

 

Alan

---

 

Naaaa.. nothing crazy from the owner. I just thought that if the cache page states that spoilers may be with in the logs that you should be able to post what you want even though my descriptions was as follows... The cache being a defferent species from the surrounding that tipped me off... thank you boyscout background!"

 

Now from that statement would you call that a spoiler??

 

I know that this is really a non-issue as the owner has the ability to delete the log outright. I just think thats crap... censorship in any form is crap! If there is warning that there may be spoilers then you should be able to post them... simple.

 

I'll drop the subject... thanks for the posts!!!

 

Team ATV

[+datum]

Yikes!

 

Spoilers?....We don't need no stinkin' spoilers.

[+Team ATV Caching Crew]

quote:

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Originally posted by datum:

Yikes!

 

Spoilers?....We don't need no stinkin' spoilers.

---

 

Well see thats my point... if you dont want spoilers.. then DONT READ the logs.

[+Marky]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Team ATV Caching Crew:

Well see thats my point... if you dont want spoilers.. then DONT READ the logs.

---

I don't read the logs for spoilers, I read them because they are often interesting and entertaining. If I see a vague spoiler posted to one of my caches, I will usually encrypt the log and inform the finder that I encrypted their log because it contained too much of a spoiler. If you had said "then don't read the ENCRYPTED logs" I would have agreed with you.

 

However, on some of my caches I put specific instructions in the cache description that logs containing spoilers of any kind would be deleted. On those caches, I delete first and inform later (even though the damage would already be done to anyone watching the cache).

 

Why do you feel the need to ruin the experience for future cachers?

 

--Marky

"All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr"

[+RuffRidr]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChiefPig:

I had a log that was just removed by the owner of the cache without even getting an email explaining why it was removed. If I had a spoiler that he did not like, I would have been happy to remove it. But I guess the cache owner thinks he is god and can do whatever he wants. Be happy that the owner is responsible enough to communicate with you and just remove your spoiler. Hopefully, most owners are like him.

---

 

This happened to me recently as well. I'm pretty sure that I didn't have any spoiling info in my log either. I emailed them asking why they deleted my log and got no response. I logged several of their caches that day and it was the only one they deleted. I posted another log that basically said 'found it' and nothing else. They left that one. I would have been happy to change whatever it was that they didn't like in the first log. But just deleting it and not answering emails asking why is just rude in my opinion. I'll be hard pressed to do any more caches by this owner.

 

--RuffRidr

[+Team GPSaxophone]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Team ATV Caching:

Naaaa.. nothing crazy from the owner. I just thought that if the cache page states that spoilers may be with in the logs that you should be able to post what you want even though my descriptions was as follows... The cache being a defferent species from the surrounding that tipped me off... thank you boyscout background!"

 

Now from that statement would you call that a spoiler??

---

Yes, it sounds like the cache is in a fake plant. I wouldn't want someone giving a direct hint as to the cache location on any of my caches, so I respect that when I write logs on others'

 

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness

[+Team ATV Caching Crew]

Originally posted by Marky:

Originally posted by Team ATV Caching Crew:

 

Why do you feel the need to ruin the experience for future cachers?

 

--Marky

QUOTE]

 

You're missing my point here... and misinterpreting my post.

 

I dont recal mentioning feeling the "need" to ruin anyones caching experience. Nor trying to say that it should be my right to post whatever I want... I have no idea where you got the idea that i wanted to "ruin" peoples experience for that particular cache. If I had posted "its 12 feet from the base of the tree under a pine cone thats 4 inches in diameter then thats a valid point.

 

I had no problems removing the "spoiler" from the logs... and did as soon as requested... It just rubbed me wrong thats all...

I never read the logs before looking for a cache because I think that it detracts from the hunt... after the cache has been found by me is another stoy... I like to read the logs.

 

Anyway... seems this is a touchy subject for some... in my opinion... yes, MY opinion. If there is a statement saying reading further may have spoilers then please dont complain to me that I say "the species didnt belong there" I hardly think this is a givaway. Species of what?? pine, dirt, ants, gopher, asphault... nope didnt make anything that specific of a statment... just the word "species"

 

whew... ok im done here...

[crouching_tiger]

Team ATV Caching Crew,

 

Unfortunately there is always someone that is trying to control what you do/write . I have had someone object to a photo I posted of the cache location--a tree in the middle of a forest. The owner objected because the photo might give the cache location away to a cache pirate. I guess that cache pirates don't have access to a GPSr and never read geocaching.com.

 

So my suggestion is do as the cache owner asks, but politely inform him/her that you will not be visiting any more of their caches. I know that this sucks, but focus your effort/energy somewhere where it is appreciated (there are lots of friendly geocache owners out there).

 

It would be nice to see the geocache web logs considered a common area, where both the cache placer and cache finder have rights and privileges. Yes I know that the placer went to the trouble of placing the cache, but I also went to the trouble to finding the cache.

 

For me, a big part of the geocaching experience is reading the various log entries. And I don't mind if someone includes a spoiler--text or photo. After all it is up to the reader/viewer to use the spoiler.

 

Just some thoughts

 

CT

[+seneca]

This spoiler photo that I put with a log, pinpointed the exact location of the cache. The cache owner didn't seem to mind at all.

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.

[ChiefPig]

LOL! ^^^^

[crouching_tiger]

Seneca, brilliant! I know that I promised never to return to a certain persons caches, but now I have a reason--to take a photo just like yours to see what happens.

 

There is nothing better than messing with someones mind.

 

CT

[+Bloencustoms]

quote:

---

It would be nice to see the geocache web logs considered a common area, where both the cache placer and cache finder have rights and privileges. Yes I know that the placer went to the trouble of placing the cache, but I also went to the trouble to finding the cache.

---

The day caching becomes trouble, it's time to sell the GPSr.

 

[This message was edited by Bloencustoms on March 32, 1999 at 25:60 PM]

[+worldtraveler]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Team ATV Caching Crew:

...I just thought that if the cache page states that spoilers may be with in the logs that you should be able to post what you want...If there is warning that there may be spoilers then you should be able to post them...If there is a statement saying reading further may have spoilers then please dont complain to me...

---

The owner evidently views the warning that log entries may contain spoilers as a simple statement of fact. You evidently have interpreted it as granting permission to include spoilers. When opinions differ, the owner's is the one that counts. Though my opinion doesn't count, I think the majority of cachers share the owner's interpretation.

quote:

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...my descriptions was as follows... "The cache being a defferent species from the surrounding that tipped me off... thank you boyscout background!" Now from that statement would you call that a spoiler??...I hardly think this is a givaway. Species of what?? pine, dirt, ants, gopher, asphault... nope didnt make anything that specific of a statment... just the word "species"

---

Given the context, I'd interpret "species" as meaning "plant" (please correct me if I'm wrong), and I'd look for a plant that did not appear to be native to the environment. That's a pretty specific spoiler, in my opinion. To think of "species" as any kind of animal in this context doesn't seem to make sense, and I don't know of anyone who uses the term in reference to minerals.

 

worldtraveler

[BassoonPilot]

Spoilers have no place in cache logs. I noted on several of my cache pages that any log that contained pictures or text I considered to be 'spoilers' would be deleted without notice.

 

I recently came across the most insipid case of spoilers in a log I have ever seen. In his log, the finder gave explicit directions on how to drive to the cache, where to park, and a complete description of the hike to the cache, including the colors of the trail blazes and each and every turn. Naturally, the location of the cache was also described in detail, as was the cache container and its contents. The log was not written by a newbie.

 

I wondered who that idiot thought he was helping out ... the cache had been in place for well over a year and had received frequent visits. I can only assume he acted deliberately in order to 'punish' or 'get even' with the cache owner. Until then, I had been under the impression that such things only happened in Canada ...

[+Xitron]

It seems that alot of people have different opinions of what a spoiler is...go figure. With as many people involved with this site either placing or finding caches there is always going to be different views on just about everything. The way I see it is the cache placer has the last word here, he/she is the one who bought/placed it and maintains it so has the right to control how it is represented. Some may not care what is placed in the logs while others may "freak out" at any mention of the location. We all know people in our lives that have to have thesalt shaker placed in the exact center of the table. I say don't swaet the small stuff, and guess what? Its all small stuff.

[+hikemeister]

I really don't understand why some folks like to put in spoilers, which often are presented as well intentioned ways to help others find the cache.

 

To me that feeling of finally finding the cache after a tough search, sometimes then realizing that the clues were somewhat off base or the coordinates a bit wrong, is the most fun part of the experience. I'd hate to take that away from the next person by making it an easy search.

[+TotemLake]

Unfortunately, sometimes an expressed experience can and in of itself become a spoiler. I myself try to be careful about specifics, but when I find that taking it out reduces the context of that logged experience, I then try to make it vague and then encrypt it. Some are short, some are extremely long.

 

Afterwards, re-reading the log after it is posted always helps to identify other parts of the log that may be a spoiler; which may require editing or at the least, more encryption, as well as catch typos and grammatical errors.

 

There is a perception of a freedom of speech issue, but it really doesn't mean you have the right to exercise it on someone's property. Geocaching.com/Groundspeak.com notwithstanding, a cache page is technically the cache owner's property. The rules and guidelines on how to write/handle logs and spoilers have been set. It is the editor's obligation to have the courtesy to respect those guidelines, which it appears you have done so upon the owner's request.

 

Fwiw, if I was advised by the owner mine needed to be edited for brevity or even to take the spoilers out, I would easily comply with apologies.

 

Cheers!

TL

[Bluehook]

Regardless of his reasoning, for a cache owner to delete the find log of a seeker who has legitimately found his cache, reaches the pinnacle of unethical geocaching behavior and that owner should be put to death by electrocution without delay.

 

Discuss.