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Dutchduane

By Dutchduane
in General geocaching topics

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woodsters

+woodsters

Posted
Posted

I can see the court case now....Mr Pirate, you are hearby ordered to return the contents that equal the value of $5, plus another $2 for the tupperware container they were in....

 

Now to you Mr Cache Owner, we are hereby sentencing you to 1 yr imprisonment and a $1000 fine for littering....

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

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Mark 42

+Mark 42

Posted
Posted

Evidence that he has gone onto public property and stolen what he knows is the property of other people.

 

He also has a link to Geocaching.com on his links page, which could put him in jeaopardy of a harrassment suit.

 

You don't have to win a lawsuit to make a person's life miserable.

 

I will contribute to the fund to pay for legal action expenses.

 

I'm going to alert the local police, but could someone please get in touch with the ISP?

 

"I'm not Responsible... just ask my wife, She'll confirm it"

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woodsters

+woodsters

Posted
Posted

So you are going to report that someone took something that someone else placed(they may reference to as abandoning) on public property?

 

Harrasment for mentioning geocaching.com? Better get rid of those business cars, decals, tshirts, coins, and etc....There's nothing against listing a link to a site....

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

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Pantalaimon

Pantalaimon

Posted
Posted

I absolutely love these discussions.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Mark 42:

He also has a link to Geocaching.com on his links page, which could put him in jeaopardy of a harrassment suit.

 

Can you make your case on this a little more clear. I would love to hear the rationale. Pretty please?

 

quote:

You don't have to win a lawsuit to make a person's life miserable.

 

There are sanctions against initiating frivilous lawsuits. This one may very well qualify.

 

quote:

I will contribute to the fund to pay for legal action expenses.

 

I'm curious how much you propose to contribute, how much you think it will cost, and what the eventual outcome would possibly be.

 

quote:

I'm going to alert the local police, but could someone please get in touch with the ISP?

 

I beg of you to tape your conversation with the local police. I would love to hear it. I wonder if they'll take manpower from homicide or narcotics to pursue this crime.

 

Maybe we could start a Neighborghood Cache Watch.

 

Seriously. Personally, I don't think he's breaking any laws, at least not from what we've learned of these "pirates" yet.

 

I think Jeremy's advice is probably best. If you ignore Queen Mab, she loses her power.

 

Pan

 

"The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

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SamLowrey

+SamLowrey

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):

Probably best to ignore them. They're obviously trolling for a reaction. Might as well not provide one.

 

frog.gif Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

 

That is what I think. But we can "pirate" his bandwidth in the meantime, I suppose.

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woodsters

+woodsters

Posted
Posted

LOL...I can hear the police...

 

Probably a good thing you will alert them...they might then get the chance to investigate this website and see that there are other caches in the area and result in more threads of the "Police took my cache"...but probably with bomb squads.... I imagine that not all the owners of the caches in the area did not seek permission to place a cache there on the property, even though it may be considered public property. You can't just go and leave your stuff lying around like that...It will all result in signs that prevent caching in those areas...blah blah blah...

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

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Pluckers

Pluckers

Posted
Posted

Yeah Woodster, are you traveling from MA to Seattle for these pirating missions? LOL

If anyone emails comcast, please post the response, I'm sure it's a great laugher.

Unless they have something seriously funny to say, I will now start ignoring the trolls here. I really don't believe people are that dorky. But I will change my mind as soon as the term "citizens arrest" gets mentioned. icon_smile.gif

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Mark 42

+Mark 42

Posted
Posted

The email address of the Bellingham PD is:

crimeprevention@cob.org

 

Here is the email I sent to them:

 

There is a person who in a form of malicious vandalism is stealing

contents of our "Treasure Hunts" and then bragging about it on

his website. He knows that the contents belong

 

The URL below is a message forum that probably explains it best.

 

Essentially, we are a group which plays a treasure hunting game.

One person places a container of small toys and a logbook & pencil

in a location, semi hidden, then gives GPS coordinates so that other

players in the game can engage in a sort of GPS treasure hunt.

The name of the activity is "Geocaching" and the group's website

is http://www.geocaching.com/

 

The first URL below is of the message thread, which talks about an

individual who has made a point of stealing our property and posting

his thefts on his website. His website is the second one, below that.

 

http://ubbx.Groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=5726007311&f=4016058331&m=26360987&p=1

 

http://home.comcast.net/~piratecaching/index.html

 

We, as a group, would appreciate if the local police department would

consider helping us out in this matter. It would be nice to see a person

who seeks pleasure from damaging the ability of others who enjoy themselves

be brought to justice.

Thank you,

Mark Kanzler

 

"I'm not Responsible... just ask my wife, She'll confirm it"

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Mark 42

+Mark 42

Posted
Posted

It's sad to see how many people here are not only too farging pathetic to stand up for what's right, but they are so idiotic as to ridicule those who will do what they haven't got the guts to do.

 

I don't care if I get banned from this site for saying it, but you naysayers are a bunch of absolute LOSERS. Why don't you move somewhere like France where they have a tradition of collapsing into a pathetic whimper whenever defending themselves seems too tough to do.

 

Intent has a lot to do with punishment. If it can be shown that his intent was malicious, it is nothing more than theft and vandalism.

 

But, people who won't stand up for what's right are the reason this country has crime problems everywhere. Thanks for nothing.throwup.gif

 

"I'm not Responsible... just ask my wife, She'll confirm it"

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Chorse

Chorse

Posted
Posted

As someone who has found a plundered cache and owns a couple caches in this area, I am just glad that I was caching with my adult friend instead of my 5 year old grandson. How many plundered caches will it take for my grandson to tire of this game. This has been a game that we have enjoyed as a family but I know that it isn't fun to find a cache that has been plundered. It is sad to see what has been so much fun turned into such a disappointment. Just my 2¢.

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Dinoprophet

Dinoprophet

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:

So you are going to report that someone took something that someone else placed(they may reference to as abandoning) on public property?

Hunters leave traps and blinds on public property. Ice fishers leave shanties. Ever been camping and left your tent and other gear at the site while you were away? Taking any of them is still theft.

 

Flat_MiGeo_B88.gif

Well the mountain was so beautiful that this guy built a mall and a pizza shack

Yeah he built an ugly city because he wanted the mountain to love him back -- Dar Williams

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woodsters

+woodsters

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

Woody, you sure seem intent on defending this dumbass. What's your involvement?

 

http://parkrrrr.com/pirate.cgi.gif

Yep I'm getting on my pirate ship and taking it across the country dropping off vacation caches and moving caches.... Did I mention my ship was yellow?

 

I'm not defending him. I find it rather funny that someone has put a twist on things and people are getting upset over it. Especially to the point of calling the police and reporting them to their ISP. Like I stated, how many of the caches are placed with strict permission directly from someone in charge of the area? Heck locally I'm waiting to hear back from a place that is on a conservation trust. It's public. Their website even promotes hiking there. But I asked permission. They are concerned about litter. Apprantly others have placed caches there before without permission and now they are very reluctant to do so even with permission. Just imagine how many caches around there that may be there without permission. Public property means that you can go there without invitation. It doesn't mean that you can leave things there and make a claim of a piece of land the size of an ammo box. And then especially expect the police to come and do something about it.

 

Comcast...what can I say about them? I've had them for a good while. Closed my account in December, still can access comcast email. I don't think this is going to qualify as abuse.

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

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mogolloyd

+mogolloyd

Posted
Posted

Mark 42, not to be rude, but who said you were the spokesperson for "the group." When you speak to anyone in this manner please use the term "me" instead. Especially when addressing public officials over something so juvenile.

 

BTW, I agree with Woodsters, it sounds like the guy is just putting his own fun little spin on the game, he said he is going to rehide all the items soon. However, he should contact the owner and get permission before he plunders. Just so he doesn't upset people so much to where they start calling other cachers loosers and insulting the entire country of France like a baby not getting it's way.

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Dinoprophet

Dinoprophet

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by mogolloyd:

BTW, I agree with Woodsters, it sounds like the guy is just putting his own fun little spin on the game, he said he is going to rehide all the items soon. However, he should contact the owner and get permission before he plunders.

You're exactly right up to this point. He's playing a separate game that directly affects other people. He should ask them if they want to play first.

quote:
Just so he doesn't upset people so much to where they start calling other cachers loosers and insulting the entire country of France like a baby not getting it's way.

And then you go and insult people who simply want to geocache by the common rules without interference.

 

Flat_MiGeo_B88.gif

Well the mountain was so beautiful that this guy built a mall and a pizza shack

Yeah he built an ugly city because he wanted the mountain to love him back -- Dar Williams

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woodsters

+woodsters

Posted
Posted

Have a question...it says the caches were "plundered"...As to what I can see from the website, the TB's were only taken out of it. Were the cache boxes removed? Was everything removed out of them? Or was a travel bug taken from them?

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

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mogolloyd

+mogolloyd

Posted
Posted

quote:
And then you go and insult people who simply want to geocache by the common rules without interference

 

Again with the grouping of people. I was insulting a specific person who lost control and started calling people names and not a specific person, because of a diffrence in opinion. I have no problem with anyone else who voiced their concerns without throwing a tantrum and lashing out @ the group.

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woodsters

+woodsters

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Dinoprophet:

And then you go and insult people who simply want to geocache by the common rules without interference.

 

It wasn't insulting of him to call people who don't agree with him, losers?

 

Like I stated, be thankful that at least people will know what happened to their TB. Anyone can come on the site and see where the caches are without logging in. People who have had a downfall here with the website can easily do it or those who don't necessarily agree with you could go and truly plunder a cache. There's no way of avoiding it right now. It's no need to get concerned about either.. We all would like to play strictly by the guidelines, but unfortunately there are people in the world that will do these kind of things.

 

Added: and further more, for him to make insults to another country? I'm sure there are caches and cachers in France who do not appreciate that comment.

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

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Mark 42

+Mark 42

Posted
Posted

Honestly, I found it insulting when people began deriding my effort to stop a person from maliciously vandalising other people's property.

 

It's not his. Just as someone pointed out, a tree stand, a tent, or a campsite is still the property of the person wh placed it when he leaves the site.

 

I also get sick of people who are prone to apathy whenever someone does something to trample on their right & property. Then to deride me for my lack of apathy was pushing me to comment.

 

Here are a few quotes (directed at me), and you can decide where the insults began...

 

"Can you make your case on this a little more clear. I would love to hear the rationale. Pretty please?"

 

"I beg of you to tape your conversation with the local police. I would love to hear it..."

 

"LOL...I can hear the police..."

 

"..evidence that comcast is in violation of several laws for pulling it?"

 

Rather than be constructive, some have decided to just belittle anyone who would actually try to make it hard for people to destroy others' property. Some of it was presented as valid questions, but a lot was just meant to ridicule anyone who would contact authorities for help.

 

"I'm not Responsible... just ask my wife, She'll confirm it"

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mckee

mckee

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Mark 42:

It's sad to see how many people here are too farging pathetic to stand up for what's right.

 

Thanks for nothing.

 

I agree people shouldn't ridicule folks, but let's be real. Yes, it's frustrating to have somebody doing this. Yes, it's also easy to snitch them off the their ISP to see if we can get them yanked offline. Yes, they'll show up again somewhere else. Yes, people will always vandalize or plunder caches, no matter how hard you work to stop them. Ignoring them probably won't make them all go away, someone else will appear to fill in the void. It's human nature.

 

It's a nuisance, not a crime. I'd rather know that the police are working on actual crimes, not trying to hunt down the guy who took my Tupperware with the crappy broken toys in it.

 

130036_200.gif

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mckee

mckee

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by mogolloyd:

Just so he doesn't upset people so much to where they start calling other cachers loosers and insulting the entire country of France like a baby not getting it's way.

 

Haven't the French suffered enough? icon_mad.gif

 

130036_200.gif

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SamLowrey

+SamLowrey

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Mark 42:

I also get sick of people who are prone to apathy whenever someone does something to trample on their right & property. Then to deride me for my lack of apathy was pushing me to comment.

 

You mean those wise and elite members of higher society who put out advice through the mass media about simply acquiescing to the demands of any criminal are wrong? How can this be? They seem to be so confident in their wisdom that when confronted with a criminal, you should just "give them what they want." Worked real well - that is why the WTC towers are still standing...... icon_mad.gif (all done with boxcutters and APATHY as you say.)

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woodsters

+woodsters

Posted
Posted

Mark first of all, let me apologize if you felt my remarks insulted you. They had no intention of doing that. Secondly, as I stated, I can't see that contacting the police on this right now is going to help it or geocaching any...I've worked in LE like many others here and some still do. It's already been mentioned in other threads about police and national parks checking for caches in their areas. That's not all police, but you get my drift. It doesn't help the aspect of the whole sport by bringing them in to the equation for something minute. From what I gather, this person has made a TB prison basically. He's not destroying caches or taking everything out of them (unless there was only a TB). There are/were other people out there taking TB's and keeping them in spite. People not knowing what happened with them. It was an issue in the SC/NC area for a while. At least he his letting people know where they are and is doing it with somewhat decency and fun. People have falling outs here and could easily go and truly plunder caches or others caches. People that play the Geocaching game and have to take this into consideration, whether placing a cache or going after one. It's public property. If it meant a lot to someone then they would chain it up and padlocked it. Using the tents and hunting stuff is irrevelant as many times it is posted somewhere that they are not responsible and you normally have to get permission to do it. If you leave something on public property where anyone is allowed and you aren't watching it, then it can be expected. I stated in my other messages about the permission thing. It would be more productive to help the sport and the growth of it, than to bring light publicly to something so small. I don't see calling the police and contacting Comcast as helping it any.

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

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Dinoprophet

Dinoprophet

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by mogolloyd:

I was insulting a specific person

Yeah, I missed that, I retract that sentence. Though in my defense, I was just going by the wording:

quote:
Just so he doesn't upset people so much to where they start calling other cachers loosers and insulting the entire country of France like a baby not getting it's way.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:

Have a question...it says the caches were "plundered"...As to what I can see from the website, the TB's were only taken out of it. Were the cache boxes removed? Was everything removed out of them? Or was a travel bug taken from them?

According to logs here and here, he's taking the entire contents. Less offensive than taking the entire container, but still awfully obnoxious.

 

Flat_MiGeo_B88.gif

Well the mountain was so beautiful that this guy built a mall and a pizza shack

Yeah he built an ugly city because he wanted the mountain to love him back -- Dar Williams

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woodsters

+woodsters

Posted
Posted

Thanks Dino...

 

I would guess that it would be hard to say what he took out of it though...I've come across some caches that had almost nothing in them as it was and what was in it didn't add up to 25 cents.

 

It's wrong, but it's still kind of humorous...

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

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Dinoprophet

Dinoprophet

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by mogolloyd:

Dinoprophet,

Nice use of italics, I feel they are _way_ underused.

Again, just following suit, per your 01:10 PM post, quoting me.

 

Flat_MiGeo_B88.gif

Well the mountain was so beautiful that this guy built a mall and a pizza shack

Yeah he built an ugly city because he wanted the mountain to love him back -- Dar Williams

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mckee

mckee

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:

 

It's wrong, but it's still kind of humorous...

 

Brian

 

*ahem* I'm forced to agree. Poor Mr. Spock, in for a flogging if that other travel bug doesn't make it to the Space Needle.....

 

130036_200.gif

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Mark 42

+Mark 42

Posted
Posted

I guess, had you made your point w/o trying to make me look silly for wanting to go after the guy, we could have had a civil discussion. But, the tone of negativity was not initiated by me.

 

That said... I do understand your point, but there is nothing disrespectable about Geocaching, and it shouldn't be forced into some sort of underground status.

 

A lot of law enforcement people (and I do happen to know quite a few) would recognize what type of character we are dealing with, and may very well enjoy making his life a bit difficult by paying him a visit to ask a few questions.

 

Comcast will have no desire to pu itself in the middle of such a controversy, and would not want to be implicated as an accessory to theft.

 

There are reasonable expectations that if I place something for others, it is not to be maliciously tampered with. When the Boy Scouts put mile posts in Banner Forest, they were placed there for others. If I go in there and deface them, you can bet I would get attention from the police if they found out i did it.

 

The persons intent is malicious. He obviously is doing it as a form of vandalism. Police don't particularly like vandals. They may not like us in some areas, but I doubt that is generally the case. I know LEO's who would enjoy paying "Mr Pirate" a visit to discuss the matter. I know LEO's who also would not have any problem with geocaching occurring in their area, as long as the rules (as given in the gudielaines on this site) are followed. They might even join in.

 

I don't agree with your supposition that "Mr Pirate" has already won by default. Remember, the squeaky wheel often gets the grease. If local police are receiving a lot of emails and phone calls asking (politely) for their help, or even whether anything can be done, they may decide that it makes sense to lend a hand to the rather large group of people who are upset by the actions (of, at a minimum, questionable legality) of one individual with malicious intent.

 

So, I wouldn't go writing off the efforts of those who are willing to go to some trouble to try to guard the caches they enjoy from the plunder of some immature moron who just wants to cause trouble.

 

If no one is willing to even try, then it becomes just one more example where we have let the dregs of society set the rules we will live by.

 

All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to stand idly by. (That's not my quote)

I maintain that it starts in small ways, and creeps in if we let it.

 

"I'm not Responsible... just ask my wife, She'll confirm it"

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Pluckers

Pluckers

Posted
Posted

What comcast term-of-service did he allegedly violate? Anyone want to lay wagers on if the site goes offline because of it? I for one would write quite a letter to comcast complaining if it does.

 

I seriously doubt any of you would even get a response from comcast. Post it here if you can prove it. Small is one word Woodster, petty is another.

 

As far as caches being completely cleaned out, that is going a bit far, even though there are many caches that are long overdue for refilling. I guess it depends on the circumstances. If there is a cache out there, and I know there are plenty, where the owner is long gone and there is log after log complaining about the contents being wet, not fitting back into the container, the tupperware lid is broken etc... I would claim that he is performing a service. The container and logs are left, isn't that the important part? Isn't the fun in the hunt, not the McToys? Is it not the missing, broken McToys you are grumbling about here?

 

I think the site claims to return the TB's and even the broken McToys back into the geocaching domain at some point. That remains to be seen I guess. I would love to have this little adventure be part of my TB's log BTW, you seriously wouldn't?

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Mark 42

+Mark 42

Posted
Posted

Should we give him your address so he can come over to your house and do a little cleaning up, and perhaps some repainting while he's there?

 

It's about intent, and respecting other peoples' rights and property.

 

He has a site where he intends to show other plunder besisdes TBs, but it is apparrantly under construction.

 

"I'm not Responsible... just ask my wife, She'll confirm it"

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Dinoprophet

Dinoprophet

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by mogolloyd:

Dino, I actually never thought I was arguing with you. Sorry if I may have been inadvertanly egging you on. I don't mess with MI or it's residents, too cool to mess with.

Word.

 

Flat_MiGeo_B88.gif

Well the mountain was so beautiful that this guy built a mall and a pizza shack

Yeah he built an ugly city because he wanted the mountain to love him back -- Dar Williams

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woodsters

+woodsters

Posted
Posted

I said it was wrong...

 

The thing is, that he is playing a game too...Many people take things out of caches...What will you tell the police? We are playing a game and someone else is playing a game and they took our game pieces? Or they are playing our game and not going by our rules? Jeremy stated it best....

quote:

Probably best to ignore them.

 

I know it's frustrating, but has anyone contacted them (piratecacher)?

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

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