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Dutchduane

By Dutchduane
in General geocaching topics

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umc

umc

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:

The thing is, that he is playing a game too

 

Yeah, I'm sure that a Professional theif can make that argument also.

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

__________________________

Caching without a clue....

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Pluckers

Pluckers

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Mark 42:

I guess, had you made your point w/o trying to make me look silly for wanting to go after the guy, we could have had a civil discussion. But, the tone of negativity was not initiated by me.

 

We agree to disagree then. I would claim, in a nice way, that it was you that started discussing what should happen to this guy, and some of it wasn't so nice: reporting him to the authorities, nixing his website etc...

 

quote:

A lot of law enforcement people (and I do happen to know quite a few) would recognize what type of character we are dealing with, and may very well enjoy making his life a bit difficult by paying him a visit to ask a few questions.

 

Dude, listen to yourself. Is this nazi Germany?

 

quote:

Comcast will have no desire to pu itself in the middle of such a controversy, and would not want to be implicated as an accessory to theft.

 

I would claim that any official of any kind would laugh their *&^ off at you trying to explain why you are upset.

 

quote:

There are reasonable expectations that if I place something for others, it is not to be maliciously tampered with. When the Boy Scouts put mile posts in Banner Forest, they were placed there for others. If I go in there and deface them, you can bet I would get attention from the police if they found out i did it.

 

Consider how they might find out. I bet it's not by going out and investigating.

 

quote:

The persons intent is malicious. He obviously is doing it as a form of vandalism.

 

I believe this is at the heart of the disagreement here. If he was truely malicious, would the container and logs still be there? Would there be a website explaining what is happening out there?

 

quote:

I know LEO's who would enjoy paying "Mr Pirate" a visit to discuss the matter.

 

Would they beat him up for stealing McToys?

 

quote:

If local police are receiving a lot of emails and phone calls asking (politely) for their help

 

Any half-wit department put in such a situation would put a stop to it quick, and I don't mean by sapping resources to investigate things. I mean by quickly making geocaching inside their jurisdiction illegal. Done. No more whiney phonecalls. At least any that can't be ignored. Problem solved.

 

quote:

immature moron who just wants to cause trouble.

 

There you go again with the name-calling (ironic!) and possibly bogus assumptions. Let's not discuss the matter, let's just go get some leather-boot wearing types to "half a little chat" with the "perp".

 

quote:

If no one is willing to even try, then it becomes just one more example where we have let the dregs of society set the rules we will live by.

[/quote}

 

more irony. Please mr. boyscout, tell us what the rules are we are to follow.

 

All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to stand idly by. (That's not my quote)

I maintain that it starts in small ways, and creeps in if we let it.

 

Good Lord!!

 

By all means, keep this discussion going! icon_smile.gif

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Mark 42

+Mark 42

Posted
Posted

It may not do any good... it all depends on which cop you happen to talk to.

 

Some will look at the situation and say "I am not going to waste my time on this."

 

Others will look at it and say "I really hate tese types of little SOB's... I think maybe we should talk to him."

 

The cops see the graffitti, and the "Harmless prank" type of shoplifting, and they know what those kids end up like if they don't get some "guidance".

 

The sad thing is that 30 years ago, in most cases if a kid got a visit from a cop to ask some questions, it'd scare the crap out of him and he'd straighten out (and his parents would ask what is going on). These days, there are only a few kids that will wise up and realize that what they are doing is not helping them in life.

 

It's funny how a person who just wants to cause trouble shouldn't be called a moron, but a policeman who would go have a word with him is a Nazi.

 

"I'm not Responsible... just ask my wife, She'll confirm it"

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SamLowrey

+SamLowrey

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:

I said it was wrong...

 

The thing is, that he is playing a game too...Many people take things out of caches...What will you tell the police? We are playing a game and someone else is playing a game and they took our game pieces? Or they are playing our game and not going by our rules?

 

Well, they went to the trouble of making a website for it.....

 

 

(waiting for you to say "Oh it wasn't that much trouble.")

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SamLowrey

+SamLowrey

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Pluckers:

<snip>

 

Good Lord - will you people to go no ends to make excuses for bad behavior????

 

"Would they beat him up for stealing McToys?

"

 

How about "Would they beat him up for stealing?"

 

I would hope so. Like someone else has alluded to, the reason you see society decaying is because of spineless people who can't tell, or don't CARE to tell, right from wrong.

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MtnLion

+MtnLion

Posted
Posted

All I know is that I go on cache hunts all the time with my family. My wife, myself, and my precious 4 year old son. I know that if we ended a successful cache hunt by finding an empty or mostly empty cache container, that beautiful innocent child would stand in the woods all sweaty and dirty and cry.

 

Any son of a bit@h that would be crass enough to screw up a game played by whole families and many small children needs to be dealt with if at all possible.

 

Anyone of you who thinks it's funny to see this game tweaked in this way also must think the outcome of this plundering is funny, too. It makes me boil that kids might get disheartened or saddened by people like these degenerates.

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Pluckers

Pluckers

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Mark 42:

Honestly, I found it insulting when people began deriding my effort to stop a person from maliciously vandalising other people's property.

 

If find it insulting in the extreme that you would presume to speak for "us", "we" and "our". Go back and read your letter. You speak for yourself, NOT me.

 

quote:

I also get sick of people who are prone to apathy whenever someone does something to trample on their right & property. Then to deride me for my lack of apathy was pushing me to comment.

 

And I'm sick of self-appointed auxiliary police types thinking they can step in and make rules with no authority. So what can I do about it, nothing. Your right to free speech. Go for it. But don't you DARE trample on my rights. In my opinion, you live in a glass house and are throwing stones.

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LQQKING4U

LQQKING4U

Posted
Posted

The only way this so called PIRATE thing would work and people would be happy, Is to grab the best thing in a cache put them all together and make a Pirate's Treasure. But the pirate only has to take 1 thing out of the cache. He can say the cache was plundered, but actually only the best item was taken and put into a pirate's treasure for all to find. He would get respect instead of some kinda flame post.

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SamLowrey

+SamLowrey

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by MtnLion:

All I know is that I go on cache hunts all the time with my family. My wife, myself, and my precious 4 year old son. I know that if we ended a successful cache hunt by finding an empty or mostly empty cache container, that beautiful innocent child would stand in the woods all sweaty and dirty and cry.

 

Any son of a bit@h that would be crass enough to screw up a game played by whole families and many small children needs to be dealt with if at all possible.

 

Anyone of you who thinks it's funny to see this game tweaked in this way also must think the outcome of this plundering is funny, too. It makes me boil that kids might get disheartened or saddened by people like these degenerates.

 

I think of myself as being cynical, but these people truly are so. The acceptance of this sort of behavior is a product of the most corrosive period of this country - the one that adherents refer to affectionately as the 60's (though it was more like the mid-60's to late 70's) I think during this time, it became acceptable to become the lowest, most base person you could be while fooling yourself (and hopefully others) into thinking you are somehow more "wise" or "enlightened." You know, they weren't "druggies" they were "experimenting" (makes it sound scientific, eh?). They weren't diseased, hollow, promiscuous tramps, they were "liberated." And on and on. (btw, despite what you may think, I'm 32.)

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SamLowrey

+SamLowrey

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by LQQKING4U:

The only way this so called PIRATE thing would work and people would be happy, Is to grab the best thing in a cache put them all together and make a Pirate's Treasure. But the pirate only has to take 1 thing out of the cache. He can say the cache was plundered, but actually only the best item was taken and put into a pirate's treasure for all to find. He would get respect instead of some kinda flame post.

 

Considering the tone of the website, that could still happen. I mean, why go to the bother if he wasn't. I wouldn't hold my breath, though.

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woodsters

+woodsters

Posted
Posted

won't say it wasn't any trouble making the website....that's not a fair statement....to me, no it wasn't any trouble...I would of made it a little nicer....but to someone who doesn't know anything about making a website, tehn it may be trouble...It may of taken them 30 minutes and it might of taken them an entire weekend. We will never know...

 

As far as kids and guidance goes...I don't see the point in that, but I'll take the bait...You are right, 30 years ago it would scared kids...well it would scare some of them...while with the state of GA, I helped open and close a juvenile bootcamp...I worked there for a 3 year period...do I think any of them were scared? maybe a handful, but I can tell you that a couple of them I know for sure weren't..i.e One who stole a police car and drove it all the way from Macon, GA to Atlanta for Freaknik while being chased....another I saw on an episode of COPs that was filmed in Atlanta a couple years after the bootcamp..I recognized him from somewhere and when they realized he had been in bootcamp before I definitely remembered him...oh yeah, lets not forget the one who after like 4 or 5 years after getting out of the bootcamp was charged with multiple counts of rape in my hometown as well as Charlotte....so no the scare tactic does not necessarilly work anymore....

 

To be honest it sounds as if you are trying to organize a mob or posse and go lynching....

 

IT has happened elsewhere without notice of where the sutff is. It will probably happen again..Just play the game knowing that it can and may happen...

 

On the comment of it's funny till it happens to you...that's a true statement in everything, not just this situation...

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

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Pluckers

Pluckers

Posted
Posted

First, people who think society is going down the tubes because some guy stole some trinkets from a geocache need to step back and rethink things a bit, starting from the top. No doubt Middle East tensions are rising over there too with similar situations.

Second, perhaps if your little darlings are so delicate, they shouldn't be exposed to this sort of risk in the first place. You are the grown up, you decide what is too much for them. If my 4yo was told that their were caching pirates afoot, they would get quite a kick out of it! Cry? Maybe your kid has bigger problems than missing out on the McToys?

Now if the cache was *truely* plundered, i.e. real vandalism, with the contents strewn about and some broken beer bottles laying around, that would be a bummer. I still don't think we would cry.

It's a wild, cruel world out there, better break them in gently LOL

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woodsters

+woodsters

Posted
Posted

Mtn Lion I agree about the family and children thing, but others on here will totally disagree that because they don't have children that it's not their fault.. I've seen those remarks on here like that and spoken about them, but of course got ridiculed by them...I've even see events that they weren't going to allow anyone under a certain age in the event...the family thing is a totally different story...

 

LQQKING4U...I agree, that would be a nice alternative for an ending....

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

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Pluckers

Pluckers

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by SamLowrey:

quote:
Originally posted by Pluckers:

First, people who think society is going down the tubes because some guy stole some trinkets from a geocache need to step back and rethink things a bit, starting from the top.

 

Noboby thinks that. Nice straw man, though. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Yeah I know, first you turn the other way while people are stealing McToys out of geocaches and next thing you know, they're growing their hair long and "experimenting" with drugs. It's the PRINCIPAL of the thing, damnit! Something must be done! rolleyes-right-back-atcha.

 

Nobody thinks that huh? Re-read the thread, at least page 3 of it. I'm putting words in people's mouths? Right.

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TotemLake

+TotemLake

Posted
Posted

Ok - reading some of this thread, and the responses therein, and the action taken by Comcast to knock down this person's web site...

 

Has anybody considered those TB's and cache contents will now not be returned out of spite? And... Who is to say this character still won't go after other caches, but now, the contents are not only plundered, worse yet, lost.

 

Not that I condone his/her/their actions, but tit-for-tat will only escalate. At lesst with the web page up, there was a way to track what happened to the plundered caches. You have lost that tool.

 

Cheers!

TL

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woodsters

+woodsters

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by TotemLake:

Ok - reading some of this thread, and the responses therein, and the action taken by Comcast to knock down this person's web site...

 

Has anybody considered those TB's and cache contents will now not be returned out of spite? And... Who is to say this character still won't go after other caches, but now, the contents are not only plundered, worse yet, lost.

 

Not that I condone his/her/their actions, but tit-for-tat will only escalate. At lesst with the web page up, there was a way to track what happened to the plundered caches. You have lost that tool.

 

Cheers!

TL

 

Well said Totem...

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

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MtnLion

+MtnLion

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Pluckers:

First, people who think society is going down the tubes because some guy stole some trinkets from a geocache need to step back and rethink things a bit, starting from the top. No doubt Middle East tensions are rising over there too with similar situations.

Second, perhaps if your little darlings are so delicate, they shouldn't be exposed to this sort of risk in the first place. You are the grown up, you decide what is too much for them. If my 4yo was told that their were caching pirates afoot, they would get quite a kick out of it! Cry? Maybe your kid has bigger problems than missing out on the McToys?

Now if the cache was *truely* plundered, i.e. real vandalism, with the contents strewn about and some broken beer bottles laying around, that would be a bummer. I still don't think we would cry.

It's a wild, cruel world out there, better break them in gently LOL

 

There's nothing wrong with my kid. He's 4 years old. When he gets excited about something and then suddenly let down, it upsets him. Sometimes he cries. He hasn't learned how to take disappointment and put it in perspective. I'm not sure what your problem is, but attacking my parenting skills or the emotional health of my son is just out of line.

 

In the game of geocaching, it is expected that there will be something in that box. Are you saying that I have to quit playing the game with my kid because jacka$$ pirate is stealing everything out of the box? And that is in any way equitable or fair? Oh, I guess you'd just tell me the world isn't fair.

 

It's hard to even begin to believe you have a child of any age. I think you must have forgotten what 4 year olds are like.

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LQQKING4U

LQQKING4U

Posted
Posted

Its better than the pirate recruiting more pirates and this totally gets out of hand with 20 pirates doing the same thing.Best thing that his web site is gone so he can't recruit.

quote:
Originally posted by TotemLake:

Ok - reading some of this thread, and the responses therein, and the action taken by Comcast to knock down this person's web site...

 

Has anybody considered those TB's and cache contents will now not be returned out of spite? And... Who is to say this character still won't go after other caches, but now, the contents are not only plundered, worse yet, lost.

 

Not that I condone his/her/their actions, but tit-for-tat will only escalate. At lesst with the web page up, there was a way to track what happened to the plundered caches. You have lost that tool.

 

Cheers!

TL

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TotemLake

+TotemLake

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by LQQKING4U:

You think the pirate would return them? Can he be trusted? I DON"T THINK SO.. Malicious intent to ruin little kids fun and their parents.

 

L icon_confused.gificon_confused.gifKING4U

 

The web page about the TB's did in fact state they were going to be placed back into caches. The Enterprise TB with Spock attached to it was the first that was going to be released. With the current actions taken, I have to wonder. I think, as distasteful as this was to me, it was a new spin on capturing and imprisoning TB's. Someone can markwell me for the other thread on that one.

 

Cheers!

TL

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Pluckers

Pluckers

Posted
Posted

action taken by comcast? Is that the case here? If so, you are right Totem, the boyscouts have probably succeeded in creating a true renegade, and a serious problem for the cache-hiders in that region out of someone, who perhaps, might have been a very creative and fun cacher, if indeed they ended up rehiding the loot with the same pinache as they took it. I was anxious to see what the pirates were going to do next. If I had a 4yo in the family, they would be curious too, but now they've gone and ruined the fun for him. Should I call the cops? If I don't, won't this sort of bad behaviour bring down america as we know it?

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woodsters

+woodsters

Posted
Posted

Some will argue about the parent, kid, family thing with you...I have a child (2 to be exact) and I understand...

 

As far as expecting something to be in the box...I think that's not a good position to be in. The log was left as they stated...The fact that this person did this and the way they did it was a far better way of what has been done and will probably now be done...At least you tell the child that a caching pirate took the loot...Go home and log onto the site info they left and have fun with it...I'm sure it will bring many hours of enjoyment to a child or at least would of...I could see a child wanting to know what the pirate took next and waiting to see where they hide their treasure....

 

i think there was a motive placed on the website...things would be returned...he added a theme to it...

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

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woodsters

+woodsters

Posted
Posted

Yeah if they had my TB, I would be pis*ed...but at who? The one who had it that stated they would return it into another cache...or the ones that caused enough grief for him to say oh well and rid of them...

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

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SamLowrey

+SamLowrey

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Pluckers:

action taken by comcast? Is that the case here? If so, you are right Totem, the boyscouts have probably succeeded in creating a true renegade, and a serious problem for the cache-hiders in that region out of someone, who perhaps, might have been a very creative and fun cacher, if indeed they ended up rehiding the loot with the same pinache as they took it. I was anxious to see what the pirates were going to do next.

 

If someone was intelligent and good natured like that, he would understand our reaction.

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Pluckers

Pluckers

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by LQQKING4U:

You think the pirate would return them? Can he be trusted?

The site said they were in the process of doing just that. I trusted that about as much as I trust I'll get the stuff I put in caches back from "good" cachers (if only I could remember what I put in there???)

 

quote:
I DON"T THINK SO..

 

Guess what, YOU don't get to decide that.

 

quote:

Malicious intent

 

You also don't define that for the rest of us or the pirates.

 

quote:

to ruin little kids fun and their parents.

 

families are not the only ones cacheing. perhaps that's your geocaching experience. is it the only valid one? You decide what geocaching is? Jeremy does?

 

Hey, get a membership and do member only caches, that way you don't have to mix it up with the riff-raff. Gated communities are a good defense against pirates.

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Pluckers

Pluckers

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by SamLowrey:

quote:
Originally posted by Pluckers:

action taken by comcast? Is that the case here? If so, you are right Totem, the boyscouts have probably succeeded in creating a true renegade, and a serious problem for the cache-hiders in that region out of someone, who perhaps, might have been a very creative and fun cacher, if indeed they ended up rehiding the loot with the same pinache as they took it. I was anxious to see what the pirates were going to do next.

 

If someone was intelligent and good natured like that, he would understand our reaction.

 

... and be so saddened by it that he would take down the site and quit cacheing. You guys win. Good for you.

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Webfoot

+Webfoot

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by TotemLake:

The web page about the TB's did in fact state they were going to be placed back into caches. The Enterprise TB with Spock attached to it was the first that was going to be released. With the current actions taken, I have to wonder. I think, as distasteful as this was to me, it was a new spin on capturing and imprisoning TB's. Someone can markwell me for the other thread on that one.

When I looked at the site, I got the same impression, that the bugs were going to be released at a later date. Perhaps the pirates are playing their own kind of game with geocaching?

 

If the pirates do release them, will they release them back in easily or place them in obscure 5/5 caches?

 

Webfoot frog.gif

5307_800.jpg

Yeah, sure....but did he use a GPSr to find it?

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woodsters

+woodsters

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by SamLowrey:

I think a lot of people who are cheaters act like they are just joking around to cover themselves if they are caught. "Oh yeah, I wasn't stealing it...I was just borrowing it..."

 

How the heck would you catch them? If they wanted to cheat...they would not leave anything left of the cache...and not a calling card at that.....

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

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Mark 42

+Mark 42

Posted
Posted

"Not that I condone his/her/their actions, but tit-for-tat will only escalate. At lesst with the web page up, there was a way to track what happened to the plundered caches. You have lost that tool."

 

That's the old "Don't make the criminals mad, or they'll be even meaner" thinking. I understand, but it has an intrinsic risk unto itself.

 

He's not doing it for what's in the cache, it's the attention. If he has to do it anonymously, it won't be worth the effort. He'll go back to some other "harmless" activity like writing computer viruses.

 

"And I'm sick of self-appointed auxiliary police types thinking they can step in and make rules with no authority. ...don't you DARE trample on my rights."

 

You see, ther is such a thing as right and wrong. It is wrong to steal. It is right to punish those who do. I went to the proper authorities, and was ridiculed. Now, even going to authorities makes me some sort of fascist.

 

People who continually defend wrongdoers are the reason we have so many laws inhibitting the freedom of decent people. If we went after those who do wrong in National Parks (like litterers) and if people pitched in to report it when they saw laws broken, there wouldn't be a need to ban everyone from all activities except for a few pre-approved ones.

 

Your freedom without responsibility is going to ultimately result in a loss of freedom. With freedom comes responsibiliy and consequences. The guy vandalized our caches. He should be made to pay for that malicious behavior. Would I beat him up? No, that's illegal, and not the right way to handle it. I'd be tempted, but he wouldn't be worth the associated trouble.

 

To me, it is wort the trouble.

 

If you want to place yourself outside the group I represent, fine. The we I referred to is, first, a group that identified a person stealing. The second "we", is a group who likes to play a game called caching. If you don't belong to either group, that's fine. I can speak for the group when it comes to stating FACTS. They are facts. Wrong is wrong. You can call wrong "right" as often as you wish, but it remains wrong.

 

There are a number of people who recognize that, and they are not fascists for doing so.

 

Abiding by laws and ethics, and expecting others to, is not fascism. Expecting others to respect you as a person, is not fascism.

 

If people would live by those tennets, maybe we wouldn't need over a million laws.

 

If people would teach their kids "The guy who took the stuff out of this cache is a scumbag, and is inconsiderate. Now we won't get to exchange treasures in this cache." and then letting them know that you hope they will be decent, and not be that kind of useless (yes, I mean it... society could do without the people who, by choice, only take from it) person.

 

I gues the Pirate can serve as an example of what we don't need in our society, if nothing else.

 

Those who refuse to stand up for what's right deserve to be despised, right along with the perpetrators.

 

"I'm not Responsible... just ask my wife, She'll confirm it"

Link to comment
MtnLion

+MtnLion

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:

Some will argue about the parent, kid, family thing with you...I have a child (2 to be exact) and I understand...

 

As far as expecting something to be in the box...I think that's not a good position to be in. The log was left as they stated...The fact that this person did this and the way they did it was a far better way of what has been done and will probably now be done...At least you tell the child that a caching pirate took the loot...Go home and log onto the site info they left and have fun with it...I'm sure it will bring many hours of enjoyment to a child or at least would of...I could see a child wanting to know what the pirate took next and waiting to see where they hide their treasure....

 

i think there was a motive placed on the website...things would be returned...he added a theme to it...

 

Gee Woody, your right. I'm just not a creative enough parent. Heck, I'm even starting to like this pirate idea. What better fun than to expand the game and force my own abusive spin on the group of cachers I play with! Maybe I'll start my own little webpage, too. They're so easy to make.

 

Perhaps I'll start stealing toys out of my kid's room and tell him it was Captain Hook that lives in the woods behind our house. What a fun adventure it is having people mess with things that are important to you. Why, just the other day, someone stole a nice birdfeeder from my yard. Now that was fun! I keep looking around when I drive by houses in town to try and find my "treasure".

 

Boy, it just makes me beam with pride when I think of how these wonderfully inventive (pirate) people are helping TPTB decide on new rules for our stupid little game. I mean, it's not like the rules mean anything...rules don't really matter, laws either! I think that any individual ought to be able to coopt the pasttime of a large group of people and put a nasty twist on it if they want to. Christ! Isn't this America? We'd be a bunch of Nazis if we went after rule breakers and law twisters!

 

Thank goodness for leveler heads than mine who can shine the light of optimism on crap like this.

 

icon_biggrin.gificon_wink.gif (There, now I'm not responsible if anyone tries to take me seriously.)

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SamLowrey

+SamLowrey

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:

quote:
Originally posted by SamLowrey:

I think a lot of people who are cheaters act like they are just joking around to cover themselves if they are caught. "Oh yeah, I wasn't stealing it...I was just borrowing it..."

 

How the heck would you catch them? If they wanted to cheat...they would not leave anything left of the cache...and not a calling card at that.....

 

Brian

 

_As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump_

 

I took it as advertizing all the fun to be had by ripping us off.

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