Signed physical log, but met the requirements after Archival?

[+geoBirder]

An interesting topic came up at a recent Event I attended.

 

In this example:

 

January 1 - You signed the physical log and posted a "Note" online.

January 2 - Cache is Archived by the CO

January 3 - You meet the requirements

 

Are you allowed to post a "Found" for it, or is completely off the table (dates are made up, but wanted to show the order.)

 

Thanks!

 

Rob

[+Tungstène]

If you have Challenge Caches in mind, this is definitely allowed.

[+sokrkx]

Absolutely!

[+Max and 99]

39 minutes ago, geoBirder said:

An interesting topic came up at a recent Event I attended.

 

In this example:

 

January 1 - You signed the physical log and posted a "Note" online.

January 2 - Cache is Archived by the CO

January 3 - You meet the requirements

 

Are you allowed to post a "Found" for it, or is completely off the table (dates are made up, but wanted to show the order.)

 

Thanks!

 

Rob

Yes!

[+igator210]

Unless for some reason it gets locked... it could take you a decade before you meet the requirement of a challenge and you'd still be able to claim it as a find.

[+geoBirder]

Thank you everyone!

[+niraD]

12 hours ago, geoBirder said:

January 1 - You signed the physical log and posted a "Note" online.

January 2 - Cache is Archived by the CO

January 3 - You meet the requirements

I never "pre-sign" challenge caches, so I never find myself in this situation. The only caches I search for are the ones I can log a Find for.

[+Vooruit!]

There are / have been reviewers out there that do not agree with this, most notably in Belgium.

[+Tungstène]

2 hours ago, Vooruit! said:

There are / have been reviewers out there that do not agree with this, most notably in Belgium.

 

Surely there have been such reviewers, since the help center is quite clear about it nowadays...

 

Help Center --> Hide a Cache --> 2. Learn about cache types --> 2.12. Challenge caches --> Required for all challenge caches: 7. Signing Log:

Quote

Cachers may sign a challenge cache's physical log at any time. However, the challenge cache may be logged as found online only after the log is signed and the challenge tasks have been met and documented.

 

[+Deepdiggingmole]

4 hours ago, niraD said:

I never "pre-sign" challenge caches, so I never find myself in this situation. The only caches I search for are the ones I can log a Find for.

Sometimes you find yourself in a situation where presigning is there to be done because you may never get back to that location
As an example I have completed a trail of challenge caches abroad - I had pre-planned the trail and noted all those that I qualified for and also those that I didnt qualify for but are likely to do so and then finally those that I dont qualify for and unlikely to do so (such as 365 day streaks -we don't do streaks so ignore those challenges) 
So when we did the trail we signed those that we qualified for and those that we didn't but likely to do so but left those that we wouldn't qualify for - it did mean that we had a target to reach for those that we had signed but didn't qualify for and a satisfying acheivement when we did - but we were unlikely to go back to that area ever again so for us pre-signing was needed.

[+niraD]

5 hours ago, Deepdiggingmole said:

10 hours ago, niraD said:

I never "pre-sign" challenge caches, so I never find myself in this situation. The only caches I search for are the ones I can log a Find for.

Sometimes you find yourself in a situation where presigning is there to be done because you may never get back to that location

Maybe you have found yourself in such a situation. I have never found myself in such a situation because I don't search for challenge caches that I don't already qualify for.

[+barefootjeff]

21 minutes ago, niraD said:

5 hours ago, Deepdiggingmole said:

Sometimes you find yourself in a situation where presigning is there to be done because you may never get back to that location

Maybe you have found yourself in such a situation. I have never found myself in such a situation because I don't search for challenge caches that I don't already qualify for.

 

A few years back, I was with a group of cachers doing a bunch of caches around the Colo River north-west of Sydney, including a trail of challenge caches. There were some I qualified for, some I was close to qualifying and some I was well short of, but they were all in the PQ of the area I'd loaded onto my Garmin the night before and couldn't easily tell which was which while we were walking along the trail, so I just signed the log of each cache we found and left it until I got home to decide which ones got Found logs and which got WNs. Since then, I've qualified for one or two I was close to and added a Found log.

 

There's another challenge cache GC5KEY1 that I'm slowly working towards. It requires 40 finds that are terrain 4 or higher and with the Cliifs/Falling Rocks, Scenic View and Difficult Climb attributes and so far I have 27, so it'll probably be at least some years before I qualify. The cache itself, in fairly remote mountainous country, is terrain 4.5 and has all those attributes so it's not one I'd want to attempt alone, and given I turn 70 later this year, it may well be beyond my physical abilities by the time I do qualify. So if my group of caching friends were to organise a trip out there I'd jump at the chance to join them and at least get my name in the logbook while I'm able to, and if that were to happen I'd probably then make more of an effort to find the remaining 13 caches I need.

[+CAVinoGal]

50 minutes ago, niraD said:

I have never found myself in such a situation because I don't search for challenge caches that I don't already qualify for.

 

Early in my geocaching "career" I attended at CITO event along a biking path with a "power trail" of challenge caches.  Being relatively new to geocaching, and walking the bikeway picking up trash with 2 more expereinced cachers who had already signed and qualified for many of the challenges, they encouraged me to find and sign all the logs.  I was hesitant, as I thought I'd NEVER qualify for most of them, so why sign them?  Still, I followed their advice, and enjoyed finding all the caches and signing the logsheets as we walked along.

 

Fast forward to today, nearly 6 years later, and I've been able to claim finds on 13 of the 31 signed logs (when I remember to go back and check with Project-GC I usually find 1 or 2 that I can now claim, or I am very close to being able to claim) .  I logged a "Write Note" on the date I signed them all.  I log a find on the date I figure out I qualified, but note that I signed the log on 4/21/18; the trail is well maintained but occasionally one will go missing, so I make it clear that I actually found it and signed it a few years ago.

 

That was my introduction to challenge caches - so if there are challenges in an area we are visiting, whether we qualify or not, we sign them if we can find them.  If we qualify, great, it's logged as a Find that day.  If we don't qualify, we'll do a Write Note to that effect, and then log it at some later time when you do qualify.  Whether the cache gets archived in the meantime doesn't factor in, unless it gets locked and you are not able to create a new log, or change your WN to a Find. (But that's another topic that's been discussed already - whether to write a new log on the date of qualification, or change your old WN to a Find log.)

[+MNTA]

On 3/26/2024 at 7:25 PM, igator210 said:

Unless for some reason it gets locked... it could take you a decade before you meet the requirement of a challenge and you'd still be able to claim it as a find.

yep long time indeed archival no problem. 14/86 of my signed challenges have been archive. Some I may never qualify for, but never say never. Though my oldest is only 7 years since signing.

[+MNTA]

17 hours ago, niraD said:

I never "pre-sign" challenge caches, so I never find myself in this situation. The only caches I search for are the ones I can log a Find for.

I initially did this but got frustrated with the amount of effort required only to find by the time I qualified it was archived. Glad that the rules allow this, I enjoy the smiley reward. Many of these challenges are quite difficult to accomplish with lots of travel which I enjoy and part of my caching motivation. So I actively seek out any and all challenge caches that fit my caching style or obtainability. No more streaks and needs to be reasonable for me. Saw one requiring 1000 R&R, also 5 continents not achievable for me.

[+JL_HSTRE]

23 hours ago, niraD said:

I never "pre-sign" challenge caches, so I never find myself in this situation. The only caches I search for are the ones I can log a Find for.

 

That's mostly my policy. Tracking a bunch of partially qualified challenges is a bit of a nuisance. 

 

That said there are some Challenges I will sign for geographical reasons (finding all the other nearby caches) or because I'm close to qualifying.

 

If it's a challenge I'm unlikely to ever qualify for, such as streaks or countries, then I will skip it.

 

23 hours ago, Vooruit! said:

There are / have been reviewers out there that do not agree with this

 

Challenge requirements changed many years ago. It used to be a CO could disallow pre-signing or limit qualifying finds to those published before the Challenge. Neither restriction is allowed anymore. 

[+thebruce0]

Ya everyone has different personal ethics; I don't know many people at all who only "Find" challenge caches they already qualify for. Everyone is happy to sign the log and note it for future completion.

 

Now whether you date your Found It log for the date that you qualify, the date that you check (but qualified long ago), or the date that you initially signed the log - that is technically up to you.  Most people log the Found It as of the date they check and qualify. Occasionally it might be dated earlier if they know specifically the date of qualification, but that can get super tedious if you're not actively tracking the challenge.

 

I still have a few challenges signed but not qualified 10-15+ years old.  We have a few people around here with (imo, annoying) "Cached In..." challenges, requiring 1 find in some obscure country/region, mainly because they're travellers, travelled with geofriends, so at least 10 people in all of Ontario can qualify, and they publish the challenge. On one hand, nice nudge to get you to go travelling; on the other hand, not very community-friendly for being able to log finds while caching casually. =/
 

And ya, I'll pre-sign challenge caches also for the sake of archival before qualification. And hope if that happens it doesn't get locked at archival.

[+Deepdiggingmole]

On 3/27/2024 at 10:02 PM, niraD said:

Maybe you have found yourself in such a situation. I have never found myself in such a situation because I don't search for challenge caches that I don't already qualify for.

Solitary challenges - yes if I dont qualify I dont go out of my way to find and sign - but as said I have completed several trails of challenges and quite a few of those abroad and so in those circumstances I would