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Event Caches Confusion


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There appears to be some confusion about "Event Caches".

 

An event cache is an event where a number of cachers do a set cache or series of caches on the same day, or a "Fox Hunt", or some other cache related activity.

 

Whether or not the cachers choose to meet up at a pub or pick-nick spot (or anywhere else for that matter) is incidental to the event.

 

Geocaching means going out and finding a hidden (usually) container or in the case of virtuals, a location or item.

 

Meeting up in a pub alone is not geocaching and cannot constitute a cache event.

 

Caches placed for the event cannot have a cache page of their own but the organiser can distribute details of those caches at the starting/rallying point.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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If that's the case, I think the description for event caches needs some serious rewording. It currently reads:

 

"There have been many cases where geocachers want to meet up at a location to share experiences and make new friends. Event geocaches are locations to meet, and after the meeting these caches are archived."

 

(my emphasis!)

 

Surely the implication here is that the "cache" is the pub, and (following the logic through) you bag a "find" by attending the event?

 

Otherwise, what's the point of listing events as caches?

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OK, it is possible that we have misunderstood.

 

I have confirmed with Moss Trooper and we both believe that what I have quoted was the outcome after the trouble following the last meet in Yorkshire.

 

I will ask for definitive answer from those above and post the reply here.

 

So hold up a while. icon_smile.gif

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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We have had a couple of emails asking if Chris & Maria's cache bash tomorrow was having trouble.

 

Without doubt, NO IT IS NOT. This thread is in no way connected with that meeting which as far as we can tell is destined to be a terrific success.

 

See you all there. icon_smile.gif

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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It all has to do with the Chichester Meeting that is arranged for the 18/05/03 by The Targett Family and myself :-)

 

As newbies to the sport, I followed the advice of others and created an Event Cache, seemed logical, but then got very confused cos T&J authorised it but said we needed to have a cache for people to find.

 

I relayed this confusion to T&J so they archived the Event Cache and posted this thread.

 

I am, like some others here, waiting with bated breath for the result of this thread?

 

It does seem illogical to me that an event needs to have a cache, especially as someone above stated the guidelines as not needing one.

 

If we are going to follow rules/guidelines I think they need to be correct?

 

How can we follow them if it is then decided that they are not correct?

 

How do we know which ones are correct and which ones are not?

 

WoodSmoke

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Here in San Diego CA we have had several events.

The first 3 did not have any caches. The first & second were in restaurants and the third a potluck in a park. They are now evolving and the forth was in a park with caches already established and a cache placed albeit temporarly at the picnic site.

A geocache meeting in Monteray had games organised, looking for waypoints and collecting points and finding the most etc and again some established and new caches placed nearby. I think these meetings are all different and reflect the needs of the organisers and local cachers.

 

'Women are like teabags. We don't know our true strength until we are in hot water!'

Eleanor Roosevelt

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Unless my memory is more at fault than usual the meeting several of us had in York in February last year was an event cache - and there was nothing to find except good company!

Actually my memory is not at fault - I have checked and Northern Cache Bash was logged as a cache found on 2nd Feburary 2002.

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Yup....agree with jstead....drove a 300 mile round trip for last years event....put faces to names and logged it as a 'found'. icon_razz.gif

 

GAZ

 

------------------------------------------------------------

I'm SURE I can get the car closer!

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I've also had another thought about all this....

 

For all those geocachers out there who don't read the forums, and it has been said here that there are many 100s, the only way for them to find out about a meeting is to see an Event Cache.

 

So an Event Cache should be allowed for a meeting so that at least all geocachers are informed that it is happening.

 

WoodSmoke

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quote:
Originally posted by Tim & June:

I have confirmed with Moss Trooper and we both believe that what I have quoted was the outcome after the trouble following the last meet in Yorkshire.


 

From I've seen I think an event cache is supposed to have caching of some sort or other.

quote:
A quote from Eric:

...but a geocaching event has to be an event for geocachers devoted to geocaching at which geocaching is conducted or discussed.

It cannot be an event open to the general public or an occasion that has nothing to do with geocaching to which geocachers are invited.

Regretfully, erik - geocaching.com admin


Which came from this thread, it wasn't allowed to be a event because it lacked enough caching. But things may be different outside Florida. *shrug*

 

waypoint_link.gif22008_1700.gif37_gp_logo88x31.jpg

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All of the event caches we've been to were without caching. One was to participate as demonstrators at a local park's event. We made our event coincide with it, demonstrated GPS use, and everyone who came to our table could Log the book. MOOG has a log book that is at every Event cache so far. No actual caching at an event yet, but lots of fun & food. And trying each other's GPSrs.

So I don't see why meeting at a pub wouldn't be allowed, we met at Pizza Hut in Feb.

-Jennifer

 

************************************

According to his or her personal experience, each person must decide by himself or herself where they have been. Always for me the most important thing is not where the others have gone but the experience lived through.-Reinhold Messner

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I had a day oof from this forum and was supprised to see this thread and to find our cache page has been archived.

 

Whist there is no cache there WoodSmoke ad I will run a Log, camera and there is a memonto keyring to obtain if you come. These three things you would find in a cache and you could say the Pub is a good find for all the families out there as it has an indoor and outdoor play area.

I am building a webpage @ the mo so we can publish the photos and logs left at the chichester meet for everyone to see if they are interested.

So I guess what I'm saying is:-

Whilst this is and informal meet thoes who want to log their visit can and we would like it to be that way too on GeoC.

Please Un Archive us T&J

 

Kids Caches and Mayhem what a day in the celtic tribal city.GEOC.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Wood Smoke:

I have now taken some time to look through some other Event Caches.

 

The following list are just some of those displayed on the home page of g.com and _ALL_ don't have caches associated with the event


You might want to pick some better examples....

"followed by a museum visit to explore the science and history of how we find our caches."

A Bit Caching Related I suppose.

 

"Hopefully, we will get the cache placed in a suitable location shortly after the gathering." sounds like placing a cache.

 

"We're having an Easter egg hunt......Geocache style" Sounds like a cache hunt.

 

"I am planning on (pre)releasing a multi-cache for those interested in participating. We will meet up at the parking lot of the pizza place (the above coordinates) at 4:00PM ,..." Yup you are right no cache associated with this one icon_biggrin.gif

 

The definition T&J used was "An event cache is an event where a number of cachers do a set cache or series of caches on the same day, or a "Fox Hunt", or some other cache related activity" - sounds like they fit into that to me.

 

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

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quote:
Originally posted by Chris n Maria:

You might want to pick some better examples....


 

I'm sorry, but these are perfect examples as T&J made it quite clear to me that "a cache to find" was required, and none of these examples have that.

 

How about these ones then?

 

Daddy's Day

This is an event for all Geocacher's! Come help us celebrate Jay's birthday! We will gather for a no host dinner at Roaring Rapids Pizza

 

Metro Area Cachers Lunch

Informal 'Meet & Greet' Luncheon for all cachers within driving distance.

 

Pizza Time In The River CityFOR PIZZA AND CONVERSATION

 

GeoVamp's April Breakfast Bash4th Breakfast Cache for the year for the . Date of the event April 12 , 2003. Come join us to get to know the faces behind the names. Prices are : Adults - $ 5.79 - soft drinks extra $1.29

 

WoodSmoke

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An answer.

 

But firstly, thanks Chris & Maria for looking into those examples above, I obviously had to also take a look and confirm your findings. Thanks for your effort. I also notice that only one mentioned the location (as opposed to the coordinates) which was a park, I wonder how big the park is.

 

There are some who have mentioned that we have had meetings in the past which were simply a get together in a pub or similar. Things change and the guidelines have to be modified as the game develops. At one stage, caches didn't even need to be approved, caches could be within a few feet of each other, we could not mention pubs on our cache pages, etc etc. Things usually only get changed as a result of dealing with some problem or other which has cropped up, and caching events is not one of those.

 

A caching event has allways had to have some form of caching as part of the day's proceedings, it's just that it has been overlooked in many cases. Since there was a problem or two, the guideline has been applied more rigorously.

 

"The Good Shepherds" mentioned what they had found in the guidelines. Unfortunately, what they found was not part of the guidelines but an explanation of the icon which describes the cache. This is the icon to the left of the cache title on the cache page, click on it and you are taken to a pages explaining what the icons mean.

 

We initially approved the cache in order to get it into the list as early as possible and sent an email explaining that it will need some caching element added. We fully expected changes to be made to the page as happens on other event cache pages.

 

The cache was later archived because we received an email from Woodsmoke saying he did not want a cache event, he was also advised that if he changed his mind we would unarchive it for him.

 

We did get a reply to our question to those above though. here are some of the points :

 

quote:
A geocaching event has to be an organized event for geocachers at which geocaching is either conducted or is the subject of the event. It would exclude unorganized "come join us at..." type events such as camping and pub visits.

 

In the post made by Woodsmoke, he says "No caches, just chatting" is this really a "cache event" ?

 

Can anyone honestly tell me that this is geocaching or is the pub a cache ?

 

If not, how can it be logged ?

 

For heavens sake, the meeting is being held within minutes of a canal walk, would it be so difficult or too much to ask to just plant a small container close by, or even in the pub garden ?

 

We really do want to approve ALL caches submitted to us and we are trying to help but please do not make it difficult for us to do so. What have we to gain by doing what we do or by making the suggestions we make ? As far as we can see, nothing.

 

Since I started typing this reply Woodsmoke has posted further examples. Yes, it's true that some do slip through. In the last 6 or 7 months there have been nearly 25,000 caches submitted (worldwide), so some mistakes are bound to happen.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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A new morning and some clearer thoughts.

 

If there is no control over the use of event caches, how do we prevent every cacher in the UK setting up his/her own spurious "event" at their nearest local ?

 

OK, every staurday night next year we are having an "event" at the "Star and Garter", all welcome. Now, cacher "Fred" in the next town decides to do it every Sunday. Etc Etc.

 

Now, 100 cachers accross the UK do that, that's 5200 "event caches" a year, to which few if any, will turn up. This would be a terrible waste of GC.com resources and add to the workload of those who approve caches.

 

It would be no use suggesting that ALL cachers will use common sense because history has shown otherwise.

 

Just as important, has the pub been asked if they could cope with 50 or 60 (or more) extra people turning up ? Could the kitchens cope with delivering all those extra meals without warning ? Has the preparation been done or is it a spur of the moment decision ?

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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A Mesage to Woodsmoke and the Target Family,

 

Please don't feel vicimised on this. We too had to change the format of our event cache to meet this new, stricter, interpretation of the guidelines.

 

It seems that as the number of caches submitted are growing all the time, the "rules" keep getting reinterpreted. The moderators are entrusted with the job of ensuring the "quality" of caches that are available to us all. 1 or 2 caches not meeting the rules is not really a problem but 1000 or 2000 is. As the numbers increase it seems the rules are going to get stricter.

 

T&J have tried to explain the new interpretaion of the rules here - I think it surprised old and new cachers alike.

 

It seems fairly easy to meet the new requirments though and here are a few suggestions:

"Create a cache" get everyone to bring an item to go into a cache taht is hidden after the event.

"Create a TB" get an autograph book, attach a Travel bug to it, get everyone at the meet to sign it, then place it in the cache with the goal of going to other event caches.

"Find a cache" place a micro along the canal from the meet and give out the coords on the day.

 

(I recon they meet the requirments - though I could be wrong).

 

A request to T&JIs it possible that you can keep us up to date with the current interpretation of the guidelines that the moderators are using, as and when they change?

 

Hope that helps, and good luck with the meet.

Chris

 

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

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Hmm.

I'm on the fence at the moment, and wouldn't mind an answer from any moderator to the question above which came out of Erik's statement ..

 

quote:
A quote from Eric:

...but a geocaching event has to be an event for geocachers devoted to geocaching at which geocaching is conducted or discussed.

It cannot be an event open to the general public or an occasion that has nothing to do with geocaching to which geocachers are invited.

Regretfully, erik - geocaching.com admin


 

As far as I can see, a planned-ahead, one-off (to stop the every-friday-night-at-the-Red-Lion brigade) social at a pub or park where geocaching is discussed (and lets face it, we *are* gonna discuss caching!) exactly fits what Erik specifically stated *was* permissible as an even cache. His words were 'is conducted OR discussed' Not 'is conducted AND discussed'

 

So, that seems to be pretty much watertight from the top doesn't it? Caching doesn't *have* to take place, as long as, if it doesn't, at least it must be discussed. Or am I missing something?

 

No trees were harmed during the production of this posting, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced....

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quote:
Originally posted by MCL:

So, that seems to be pretty much watertight from the top doesn't it? Caching doesn't *have* to take place, as long as, if it doesn't, at least it must be discussed. Or am I missing something?


 

Im not a Mod or anything, but I would guess that discussion of geocaching would have to be *offical*. And by that I mean it would either need to be disscussion within an organized group about caching, or maybe discussion about formalizing a group. Not just some people all showing up at the same place (no offense to anyone!)...

"Hey, anyone been to cache whats-you-call-it?"

"Yep, I liked that one, you been to name-the-other-cache?"

"No, not yet... but I hear if you approach from..."etc etc

Otherwise, If I run into anyone anywhere, and geocaching comes up, Poof! We've just had a geo-event, right? icon_confused.gif

 

waypoint_link.gif22008_1700.gif37_gp_logo88x31.jpg

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What's more, there appears to be a lack of concensus even amongst those who attended the recent cache bash.

 

Almost all have logged the event as "found", but a few have merely posted "notes" to the cache log.

 

My tuppenceworth is that, if you've made the effort to attend an organised event such as a cache bash, TITO event, etc. (especially if you've had to travel far), then you deserve to log a "found".

 

Otherwise, you may as well discount all virtual caches icon_wink.gif

 

It's the spirit of the thing that counts, surely, and common sense should prevail.

 

=====

There's no such thing as a free lunchbox!

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quote:

A quote from MCL

 

As far as I can see, a planned-ahead, one-off (to stop the every-friday-night-at-the-Red-Lion brigade) social at a pub or park where geocaching is discussed (and lets face it, we *are* gonna discuss caching!) exactly fits what Erik specifically stated *was* permissible as an even cache. His words were 'is conducted OR discussed' Not 'is conducted AND discussed'


 

The interpretation is as Welch has offered above.

 

I believe everybody would agree that a "sports event" would be to do with activities being conducted which are sport oriented. A meeting of sports fans in a pub chatting about sports could not be interpreted as a "sports event". (mental image time: "a motorcycle event in a pub" icon_biggrin.gif ).

 

quote:

A quote from Chris n Maria

 

A request to T&J, Is it possible that you can keep us up to date with the current interpretation of the guidelines that the moderators are using, as and when they change?


 

If we have any doubt about the interpretation of the guidelines, we refer it to the rest of the admin community for clarification and then act upon that clarification. This is the route by which the guidelines evolve as the pastime evolves.

 

As far as we are aware this is not a change in the guidelines, the guidelines are just being more rigidly enforced.

 

As far as we can remember, only four guidelines have changed :-

 

1. Caches may not be placed within 0.1 of another cache.

2. Caches cannot be short term/temporary.

3. "Holiday" caches are not permitted (placing a cache where you cannot adequately maintain it).

4. Suitable cache content updated.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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Thanks to T&J for clarification on guidelines in general - I accept the position re events has changed. But is it the intention not to approve Fox Hunts as they are surely "short term/temporary"? It would be a pity if this interpretation was to be used as although I have not been able to chase Mark around (should I have rephrased that?) it struck me that the two hunts he organized were well within the spirit of geocaching and to be encouraged. Can we assume that an exception would be made for any future ventures like that?

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quote:
Originally posted by The Good Shepherds:

I'm confused now.

 

Where *are* the guidelines for event caches?


 

The guidelines are deliberately left a little loose so that it encourages variation.

 

When there is question about the validity of a cache, it is referred to the rest of the admin for a decision, which usually sets the precedent and later makes it as a firm guideline.

 

June and I will refer your question and hope that they don't turn around and put more restrictive conditions on event caches.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by jstead:

But is it the intention not to approve Fox Hunts as they are surely "short term/temporary"?

 

<snip>

 

well within the spirit of geocaching and to be encouraged. Can we assume that an exception would be made for any future ventures like that?


 

The UK seems to be the only country doing fox hunts in this way. Therefore it is another of those regional variations which we fought for dispensation when the first fox hunt was held in the New Forest. We argued that it was an "Event Cache" even though the location was not set.

 

Part of the reasoning behind keeping guidelines a little flexible.

 

quote:
Originally posted by jstead:

(should I have rephrased that?)


Yes icon_biggrin.gif

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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quote:
A quote from Erik:

...but a geocaching event has to be an event for geocachers devoted to geocaching at which geocaching is conducted or discussed.

It cannot be an event open to the general public or an occasion that has nothing to do with geocaching to which geocachers are invited.


 

As I fear I may be quoted out of context please understand that last summer we had a large number of submission that were way over the edge. In the US we had people posting their weekend garage sales (what do you call that in the UK, a "jumble"?) as well as someone who posted his school's Independence Day patriotic concert as an event cache. We also had someone post that if 30 geocachers could join him at a specific baseball game they could get a group discount and all sit together.

 

That led to the request that the theme of the event should be geocaching. In the baseball game example, if he did get 30 to join him geocachers would comprise less than 1% of the participants to this "event" and hardly make it a geocaching event. icon_wink.gif

 

We've also had people post: "we'll be camping at such and such a place and plan to find such and such a cache over the weekend. Join us if you can" That sort of improptu, unorganized

thing is hardly a geocaching event.

 

In light of the above, the cache approvers have tried to judge each submission on the merits of what's on the cache page. I know in the US I've initially turned down some similar to the last example and asked that the forums be used to drum up interest. Once a group has commited to participate then it became more along the line of an organized event and it was posted as an event cache.

 

I would like to second what Tim and June said about keeping the guidelines flexible. We've seen in the last month that a vocal minority clammering for more posted guidelines have led to guidelines that have become more restrictive.

 

Usually if a cache, regardless of type, is initially turned down you can work with the approver (and/or employ these forums) to amend it and make it work. That assumes something questionable as an event isn't posted at the last minute. icon_wink.gif

 

erik - geocaching.com admin

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quote:
Originally posted by Tim & June:

The guidelines are deliberately left a little loose so that it encourages variation.


 

I'm sorry... I think perhaps I didn't put my question into the correct context. Further up the thread, you told us:

 

quote:

"The Good Shepherds" mentioned what they had found in the guidelines. Unfortunately, what they found was not part of the guidelines but an explanation of the icon which describes the cache.


 

..which I took to imply that there's a 'better' set of guidelines for event caches published around here somewhere that we've missed... that's all icon_smile.gif

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quote:
Thanks, Eric, Tim & June, for your clarifications, and especially for the counter-examples. Makes it a whole lot clearer.


 

Yeh my sentiments exactly lazy leopard, I don't want to be a Trole but I still think GeoC should change it's guidelines shown on Event caches, as the description shown is too ambiguas, as it seems the guide lines have changed quite a bit.

 

T&J & Chris and Maria I just want to say, I do apreciate all you are doing for GeoC and us cachers and I'm sorry to have caused you so much hassle

 

I want to thank

 

GEOC.gif | logo.gif

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quote:
Thanks, Eric, Tim & June, for your clarifications, and especially for the counter-examples. Makes it a whole lot clearer.


 

Yeh my sentiments exactly lazy leopard, I don't want to be a Trole but I still think GeoC should change it's guidelines shown on Event caches, as the description shown is too ambiguas, as it seems the guide lines have changed quite a bit.

 

T&J & Chris and Maria I just want to say, I do apreciate all you are doing for GeoC and us cachers and I'm sorry to have caused you so much hassle

 

I want to thank

 

GEOC.gif | logo.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by washboy:

 

Almost all have logged the event as "found", but a few have merely posted "notes" to the cache log.

 


 

There is a very good reason I logged mine as a note not a find...

 

I have an agreement currently with another cacher that I will wait for them to catch up with me before doing any more caches. Had that cacher been at the bash, no doubt we would have both logged as finds, since to do so would not increase the difference between us. Since they were not present I feel I don't want to rack up another find thereby increasing the work my fellow cacher has to do to catch up.

 

Second reason, I actually didn't come to the bash to do any caching at all. As far as I was concerned, it was a time for meeting others, and I was not particularly interested in doing the set caches for the day. I just enjoyed the meet.

 

Both personal reasons, I know, but still valid for me. Hope this explains why I did not log the bash as a find.

 

<evil glint> of course, when I have just done my 999th cache and I am suddenly put in hospital by a mysterious bug contracted from eating an unsealed Mars Bar I found in a dodgy cache, I will be able to log on, convert the log to a find and achieve the thousand after all!

</evil glint>

 

No trees were harmed during the production of this posting, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced....

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quote:
Originally posted by The Targett Family:

T&J & Chris and Maria I just want to say, I do apreciate all you are doing for GeoC and us cachers and I'm sorry to have caused you so much hassle


 

You didn't cause us any hassel (were not moderators) - all we were trying to do was give you some help from our experience of getting an event approved.

 

Chris

 

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

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Quote originally posted bt Washboy

 

What's more, there appears to be a lack of concensus even amongst those who attended the recent cache bash.

 

Almost all have logged the event as "found", but a few have merely posted "notes" to the cache log.

 

I posted the meet as a note as I didnt find a cache there, and although I dont really attach too much significance to find numbers it reflects my found count more accurately for those that do.

 

adrianjohn put your trousers on!

 

Grimsby Lincolnshire UK.

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