City Names in Giant Letters (again)

[+BeayPepe]

We want to create (again) the category of "City Names in Giant Letters".

 

We had already tried a few months ago, but we couldn't get it forward successfully. The reasons for denying the category were two:

• a poor description
• not having proposed the category initially in this forum.

 

We will start again from the beginning, proposing this category in the forum, to see what you think about it...

 

We also have edited the descriptions. You can see all details in this category in this link: https://www.Waymarking.com/cat/details.aspx?f=1&guid=34a57c30-d24b-4e97-a201-41da8dac17cf&exp=True

 

We want to receive suggestions to modify the descriptions, if necessary, to get it forward.

As soon as the Waymarking community likes it, we will propose it to vote.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by BeayPepe
arrange the hyperlink

[jonathanatpsu]

I have never created a category, nor am I an officer in any categories, so my thoughts might not be as useful as one who has experience in those things, but I read through the category description and I like it.  The only suggestion I have for a change is in the Long Description section, maybe include a minimum number of sentences required (e.g. at least 3 sentences).  I know a lot of categories have that.   The only other concern I would have with this category is if it overlaps with other categories.  I can't think of any, but others might be able to point out if these city names would already be covered by another category.  Interestingly, I just heard that in the city where I grew up, they recently installed the name of the city in large letters.  So, I will have a Waymark to contribute if the category is accepted.  

[+BeayPepe]

38 minutes ago, jonathanatpsu said:

The only suggestion I have for a change is in the Long Description section, maybe include a minimum number of sentences required (e.g. at least 3 sentences)

We have just added your suggestion in the long description. Thanks!!!

[Becktracker]

Fine description and good that you give it another try. The only thing I can think of is a possible overlap with 'letters on hills'. Maybe you should add that the letters must be standing/3d?

[+BeayPepe]

7 minutes ago, Becktracker said:

Fine description and good that you give it another try. The only thing I can think of is a possible overlap with 'letters on hills'. Maybe you should add that the letters must be standing/3d?

Typically, city names are in cities, not on hills, so we don't think there's much overlap.
But if on a hill there is the name of a city with giant letters, we don't see a problem with that point having two waymarks in two categories: "Letters on Hills" and "City Names in Giant Letters"

There are many places with a huge amount of waymarks.

 

We have just added your suggestion that the letters must be standing and in 3d. Not written.

Thanks!

[razalas]

Nice work for a first category write up.

Just a couple of suggestions:

- Giant letters definition, the minimum size to be considered giant .

- The description language must be the local one and English can be added as second language. This should be the other way, description must be in English and local language as a second language (as an example in a trip to Japan if we find one it will be almost impossible to me to write a waymark in Japanese).

 

Hope to post some in the category 

[+BeayPepe]

52 minutes ago, razalas said:

Nice work for a first category write up.

Just a couple of suggestions:

- Giant letters definition, the minimum size to be considered giant .

- The description language must be the local one and English can be added as second language. This should be the other way, description must be in English and local language as a second language (as an example in a trip to Japan if we find one it will be almost impossible to me to write a waymark in Japanese).

 

Hope to post some in the category 

We have just added the giant letters description: At least, one of them, have to be one meter high (1.09 yrd)

And we added the condition to post in any language and translate to english. If it has no english translation the waymark will be declined. We copied/pasted from other category, so it could be admissible.

Thanks for your suggestions.

[+BeayPepe]

We have just checked the other thread: City names in giant letters

 

The only reference to Silhouette Public Art Sculptures that we can found in the other thread is in a comment written by ScroogieII:

Quote

BTW, I DO NOT consider this category to be redundant to, or in conflict with, other Sculptures categories, as I would not consider most Giant Letters to be rendered as Silhouettes, nor would I, as an officer in Abstract Public Sculptures, approve them as being abstractions, as they're not.

 

Anyway, thanks for your attempt to help.

[+BeayPepe]

Also, we are now revising the guidelines for the Silhouette Public Art Sculptures category and for letters to be considered silhouettes they would have to be cut from sheet metal (or other material).

In general, these giant letters are usually 3d, not flat, so they would not meet the requirements of the category. Here you can see some examples, so you can see what we mean (they are also in the category description):

AMSTERDAM:

LONDON:

PARIS:

BARCELONA:

MADRID:

BRUNETE:

OURENSE:

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by BeayPepe
editing images

[+pmaupin]

For my part I think it can make a good category, these city letters are very fashionable at the moment.
Just a small detail, in your category, there are only Spanish waymarkers, it's a bit of a shame for a category that wants to be international.

Phil

[+pmaupin]

You should impose more than one personal photo, this would avoid photos taken on the internet, and photos taken while driving.

Phil

[+BeayPepe]

1 hour ago, T0SHEA said:

"Also, we are now revising the guidelines for the Silhouette Public Art Sculptures"

 

Excuse me, just how are you going to "revise "the Silhouette Public Art Sculptures category"

Sorry for my bad english... I used google translator to try to say that we are reading the guidelines and google translator said "revise". Sorry for any inconvenience...

 

You are very exigent with us in the use of english. We are not perfect. Sorry for this!

 

Thanks for your messages!

Edited February 28, 2023 by BeayPepe
changed the word for exigent...

[+BeayPepe]

12 minutes ago, pmaupin said:

For my part I think it can make a good category, these city letters are very fashionable at the moment.
Just a small detail, in your category, there are only Spanish waymarkers, it's a bit of a shame for a category that wants to be international.

Phil

This category was an idea of a group of spanish geocachers/waymarkers. That is the reason to only "officer" spanish waymarkers in group. The group is open to new members and there are more members in group. We can see non spanish regular members: FamilieFrohne, Alfouine, bugcrowd2022_35, bluesnote, pmaupin, VirginiaPotFarmer

[+BeayPepe]

14 minutes ago, pmaupin said:

You should impose more than one personal photo, this would avoid photos taken on the internet, and photos taken while driving.

Phil

We have just added the imposition of, at least, two photos.

Thanks for your suggestion

[+pmaupin]

2 minutes ago, BeayPepe said:

We can see non spanish regular members: FamilieFrohne, Alfouine, bugcrowd2022_35, bluesnote, pmaupin, VirginiaPotFarmer

Yes, but these regular members cannot participate in the evaluation of the proposed waymarks. So you make a partisan category, exclusively Spanish, it's not the spirit of Waymarking, we are an international community.
Phil

[+BeayPepe]

9 minutes ago, T0SHEA said:

 

Okay, interesting that you resort to negative labeling, then you are

 

 

If you have to qualify it,  then you should not post it. 

 

Seems to be a common practice, when someone posts an objection to use derogatory labelling. 

 

 

We are not insulting anyone. We have only said that you are very demanding with us, for having made a mistake in one word in one of our messages. If you want to see it as a negative label, we didn't mean to.
The one who writes (me) is Spanish and his native language is Spanish. We know that this is an inconvenience in the Waymarking community, but we translate everything into English and sometimes we can be wrong. We apologize for that.
And, if you think it's a common practice, it's because you've seen more negative labels from us somewhere. We would like to know where...

[+BeayPepe]

8 minutes ago, pmaupin said:

Yes, but these regular members cannot participate in the evaluation of the proposed waymarks. So you make a partisan category, exclusively Spanish, it's not the spirit of Waymarking, we are an international community.
Phil

This is the reason why, first of all, we have proposed the category in the forum. Here you can participate in the evaluation of the proposed waymarks.
Also, all the officers that are there right now, asked us to be. We have yet to turn down anyone who has asked us to.
Those who are not officers is simply because they have not asked us.
Do you want to be an officer of this group?

[+BeayPepe]

7 minutes ago, T0SHEA said:

Then delete it

 

 

.

Deleted

[+BeayPepe]

49 minutes ago, T0SHEA said:

"at the moment." Interesting. Kind of like Yellow Arrow Lookup

We think that pmaupin said "at the moment" because there are a lot of citys installing those giant letters at the moment.

They seem to be more durable than "yellow arrow lookup", because they are being installed by official institutions like councils

[+BeayPepe]

16 minutes ago, T0SHEA said:

Yes, all can be posted in Silhouette Public Art Sculptures.

We will try to publish one, and we will tell you how it was...

 

16 minutes ago, T0SHEA said:

I do not see North America represented in your examples

We only showed examples of the city names in giant letters that we have visited. Sorry for this

Edited February 28, 2023 by BeayPepe
arranging my poor english. Sorry again!

[+BeayPepe]

I have just found this one in internet. It is in North America:

[+Alfouine]

[+BeayPepe]

I have found a lot of them in Mexico:

 

 

[Becktracker]

I have one of Medan in Indonesia ready to post for this category.  It's a worldwide phenomenon

[+BeayPepe]

2 minutes ago, Alfouine said:

We also have found those photos. We post them at almost same time...

[+BeayPepe]

3 minutes ago, T0SHEA said:

 AGAIN, all of these can be posted in Silhouette Public Art Sculptures.

It does not matter how no many examples you post it does not change the fact that all can be posted in Silhouette Public Art Sculptures.

So why are you asking for examples in North America?

[+Alfouine]

These letters deserve a category, there are not silhouette.

[+BeayPepe]

3 minutes ago, T0SHEA said:

Are you using a translator?  

Yes. I am sorry for any inconvenience in my bad use of a translator...

 

In my opinion when anybody points a fact like there are no examples in North America, it seems like he/she is asking for any example of them. You did not ask, but it seemed that you were asking... Anyway, since you pointed out the fact that there were no examples in North America, we've shown you some, because we thought you were commenting because you were curious about it...

[+BeayPepe]

We have just verified that one of the officers in the group that manages the Silhouette Public Art Sculptures category, is also official in our group: pmaupin.

If there were any kind of overlap, he would have already pronounced ...

[+BeayPepe]

7 minutes ago, T0SHEA said:

This category is now in peer review, guess that was somehow over looked. Hum, wonder why it was not mentioned here.

If the Silhouette Public Art Sculptures category description is changed while the new category is in peer review, there is nothing to do about it.

Anyway, as we understand when reading the description of the category, the structures that are included are the style of sculpture that are generally cut from a sheet of metal (or other substance) or uses bars or pipe to interpret the artist's sculpture. 
With the modification produced a few minutes ago, city names are also included, but the type of structure is not changed, so 3d structures do not seem valid.

[+BeayPepe]

Seeing how all this works, we have a doubt:
If, for some inexpicable reason, the new category for the names of the cities that we are proposing (or another category that we want to create) is accepted, is it allowed to change the description in a few months to include other things than the ones that were voted now?

Edited March 1, 2023 by BeayPepe
fixing the translation

[+BeayPepe]

1 minute ago, T0SHEA said:

How ever you try to rationalize it still does not change the fact that all these signs are accepted in Silhouette Public Art Sculptures. "The names of Cities are accepted."

 

Unless we have a translator mis-communication,  generally, does not mean mandatory and an absolute requirement. You are overstating what the description reads. 

Ok. I have understood. Then, everything is allowed in this category. Thanks

[+BeayPepe]

7 minutes ago, T0SHEA said:

 

You want to make changes already, and what are those that might be.

We do not want to make any changes to the category. We want to know if it is allowed, since we see that in the Silhouette Public Art Sculptures category, changes are made.

 

8 minutes ago, T0SHEA said:

Seems to me voters do not know what they are voting for now. 

Voters are voting for the description presented here:  https://www.Waymarking.com/cat/details.aspx?f=1&guid=34a57c30-d24b-4e97-a201-41da8dac17cf&exp=True

[+BeayPepe]

T0SHEA has asked us to delete the screenshot that we had posted of his vote. Of course, we have deleted it, but it didn't say anything that she hadn't already said on this forum.

How could it be otherwise, the vote was against the category. Her comment was that, according to the update on March 1st, city names were now accepted in the Silhuette Public Art Sculptures category.

In addition, she also said that the leader of this group was considering making changes to the category, so it was not possible to know what was being voted for at this time.

 

In response to this comment, we had simply written:

 

 

The leader isn't considering making changes. We are only asking if it is allowed because there are changes in the other category. We don't want to make changes!!!

Edited March 2, 2023 by BeayPepe
deleted the vote screenshot

[+BeayPepe]

2 minutes ago, T0SHEA said:

 

Now I am at a loss for words... 

First you accuse us of wanting to make changes to the category. We answer that we do not want to make changes, we just want to know if they are allowed, since we see changes in others.
It seems that if we are the ones who want to make changes, it is wrong. But if the changes are made to another category that is already approved, that's fine.
We are the ones who are at loss for words...

[+Ariberna]

As? I am not finding out.
Did the silhouette category guidelines just change to deny a vote?
Was it consented to by all the officers? voted in the middle of this vote?

[+Ariberna]

Then outspoken1 changed now the information?

[+Walking Boots]

First I have to say that I really don't like the method where you get your geocache friends to vote...

The category..well.. several city names were produced years ago... but isn't it a dead trend. .. When was the newest "City name in giant letters" produced?

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

2 hours ago, BeayPepe said:

Seeing how all this works, we have a doubt:
If, for some inexpicable reason, the new category for the names of the cities that we are proposing (or another category that we want to create) is accepted, is it allowed to change the description in a few months to include other things than the ones that were voted now?

 

Yes, and I would ask you if you would also accept widely-known common nicknames for cities, such as Philly for Philadelphia,  or Big D for Dallas. Also - some cities make these displays interactive, where a person is asked to make a missing letter. Will those be ok here too?

 

Sorry I've been away from the forum this week - I had a sick kiddo home to take care of.  

 

Sí, y le preguntaría si también aceptaría apodos comunes ampliamente 
conocidos para ciudades, como Philly para Filadelfia o Big D para Dallas. 
Además, algunas ciudades hacen que estas pantallas sean interactivas, 
donde se le pide a una persona que haga una letra que falta. 
¿Estarán bien aquí también?

Lo siento, he estado fuera del foro esta semana, tenía un niño 
enfermo en casa que cuidar.

[+BeayPepe]

40 minutes ago, Walking Boots said:

First I have to say that I really don't like the method where you get your geocache friends to vote...

This category is an initiative of a group of waymarkers/geocachers from Spain. Of course, all members of this group are voting for this category. Is this not allowed?

 

41 minutes ago, Walking Boots said:

When was the newest "City name in giant letters" produced?

The group was created in november, but the newest "City names in giant letters" was presented in this forum on monday, (27 february)

[+BeayPepe]

30 minutes ago, Benchmark Blasterz said:

Yes, and I would ask you if you would also accept widely-known common nicknames for cities, such as Philly for Philadelphia,  or Big D for Dallas. Also - some cities make these displays interactive, where a person is asked to make a missing letter. Will those be ok here too?

Yes, we would accept all the possible city names. The official and common nicknames of the cities. There are no contradiction.

We didn't know about those city names interactive... We love it! We want to see some examples!

Thanks!

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

6 minutes ago, BeayPepe said:

This category is an initiative of a group of waymarkers/geocachers from Spain. Of course, all members of this group are voting for this category. Is this not allowed?

 

The group was created in november, but the newest "City names in giant letters" was presented in this forum on monday, (27 february)

 

Anyone who is a Premium member of Geocaching can vote for or against a Waymarking category in peer review. It has always been this way.

 

Some waymarkers get annoyed when geocachers with no Waymarking finds come here to vote on WM categories,  but them's the rules. I think gatekeeping Waymarking will kill it - in my opinion Waymarking is way more fun than chasing nanos under bus stop benches. We need to bring more cachers into Waymarking, also IMO.

[+sernikk]

Really happy to see this category! Yes, yes, yes!

I think there is no redundancy here - this is definitely not art, to fit into art categories. This was a category gap that I really hope will be filled

 

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

2 hours ago, BeayPepe said:

Yes, we would accept all the possible city names. The official and common nicknames of the cities. There are no contradiction.

We didn't know about those city names interactive... We love it! We want to see some examples!

Thanks!

 

If this category passes peer review, I might have one in mind - 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Benchmark Blasterz

[+Outspoken1]

I inadvertently created a problem this morning thinking I was helping this newly proposed category. Instead I created a pile of poop. I am very sorry. I have been appraised of the situation and have remedied the confusion and have revised my vote to 'Yea.'

 

My vote text--"REVISION--I received an email from this category leader this morning asking if Silhouette would accept this type of art. I said 'Yes' and then updated the Silhouette category not knowing this category was in vote. It has come to my attention that this would better work as a stand-alone category, so I am changing my vote to 'Yea' and will clarify this new category in the Silhouette Category. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. That was not intended. Outspoken1"

 

Again, I apologize for muddying the waters. I look forward to finding a Waymark this will fit in this new category.

[+BeayPepe]

12 minutes ago, Outspoken1 said:

I inadvertently created a problem this morning thinking I was helping this newly proposed category. Instead I created a pile of poop. I am very sorry. I have been appraised of the situation and have remedied the confusion and have revised my vote to 'Yea.'

 

My vote text--"REVISION--I received an email from this category leader this morning asking if Silhouette would accept this type of art. I said 'Yes' and then updated the Silhouette category not knowing this category was in vote. It has come to my attention that this would better work as a stand-alone category, so I am changing my vote to 'Yea' and will clarify this new category in the Silhouette Category. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. That was not intended. Outspoken1"

 

Again, I apologize for muddying the waters. I look forward to finding a Waymark this will fit in this new category.

Thank you so much! 

Let's see if we can make this category a success, which almost everyone seems to like.

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

2 hours ago, Ariberna said:

Then outspoken1 changed now the information?

I believe that Silhouette Public Sculptures has been updated today - take a look 

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

1 minute ago, T0SHEA said:

Peer review is becoming obsolete. 

Welcome to the new Waymarking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t think that’s entirely true. Times and cultures and people change. Change is the one constant.

 

If we don’t want Waymarking to get the benchmarking treatment from TPTB, we need new blood, new ideas, new categories that are congruent with the baseline values of Waymarking, Worldwide, Stand out, Prevalence, not Redundant.
 

I DO wish that Groundspeak would update the New Category creation page to advertise this forum, so new categories would have to come here for discussion before going straight to Peer Review. Would make for a smoother process, that’s for sure. 

[+Ariberna]

Thanks for all Outspoken1 and Benchmark Blasterz. Both were briliant in the forum Not so another who seems to be bothered by the proposals that go from the other side of the pond. Of course there are new ideas in WM and you have to change.

Starting with the more than 500 exclusive categories in the USA in which some made their fiefdom. Change things like not supporting WM in certain categories for being in the same point when a few reviewers have more than 10000 WM created with News article, Wikipedia, etc from the one posted person in the same place was considered deprecated and now changed. I had to adapt to your Waymarking, since I had the feeling that nothing could be contributed, but lately new categories have come out such as knockers, elevated buildings, italian and nordic heritage, pancakes, puzzles, etc.

 

Another thanks to Outspoken and Bench for the clarifications, but I don't think you will muddy the issue.

[+Ariberna]

Some of those people who believe that WM is only interested in posting and not visiting, that you prefer to only make marks and never visit, stay with that old and obsolete WM. But a few Spanish WM have gone to countries with WM from more than 10 years ago and without a visit. I don't want that WM, with it which one do i have many more visited than created

Welcome to New Waymarking