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Team O.P.P.

Deleting Logs

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We've come across this situation that is really bugging us icon_mad.gif and we would like your comments before we do anything. We visited this local cache this weekend and were unsuccessful in our first attempt. We logged a 'no find' and pointed out that the posted coordinates were inaccurate (the location was on the sidelines of a soccer field). When we checked the cache page later that day, we noted two successful finds after our visit but our 'no find' was somehow deleted. We thought it was a bit strange so we visited the cache the next day and found it without any problems. We logged the find and wrote the following:

 

Finally found it on our second visit. We searched the entire area yesterday

without any luck and posted our failed attempt. Strangely, that post has now

been deleted. We found the cache within a few seconds of arriving and we didn't

even use the GPS this time. As we mentioned on the deleted post, you may want

to take an average of the GPSr readings as the posted coordinates are located on

the sidelines of the soccer field. Took the lucky penny keychain and left an

ambition pin.

 

Thanks for placing the cache.

Team O.P.P.

 

We discovered that this log entry was also deleted later in the day so we e-mailed the owner of the cache inquiring if he knew what was happening. This was his reply:

 

Hello Team O.P.P.

Thank you for visiting The Fairview Ditch Cache twice.

I had to delete your logs because I am doing this cache as a high school project

and your logs send the worng message to the teacher. I know you meant well but

your logs were not complimentary, so they could hurt my grade. This is important

because I am using this class to get a CO-OP career opportunity in the GIS field

and I need a good mark in this class.

I am very sorry for the inconvenience.

 

If you like, you could post your log again saying that you found the cache and

performed the trade.

Do not make reference to your previous visits or logs, and try to compliment the

cache and the placement of the cache.

I know that I'm taking this too seriously but I am very interested in the CO-OP

placement.

I appologize once again and Thank you in advance.

 

We are a bit perturbed with this revelation. We have responded by pointing out that some cachers might not react well to finding out that their logs were deleted. We also noted that another cacher pointed out the inaccuracy of the posted coordinates but their log wasn't deleted. Although we indicated that we were going to post a find without any 'negative' references, after thinking on this some more, we're beginning to have second thoughts.

 

Any suggestions on how to handle this? Thanks.

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To me, is seems like the owner of this cacche is in it for personal gain. As far as I am aware, that is not what GeoCaching is about.

 

If I were you I'd talk to Jeremy about it. I personally think that this cache should have gone through Jeremy before it was even placed. Obvisouly the cache owner wasn't thinking clearly. He/she should also have put that information on the cache page, so that people could decide if they wanted to be a part of the "expirement".

 

If the cache sucks, then the owner should be open to constructive critisism. Instead, he/she decided that only positive things about his cache were allowed to be postet, even if it is in a crappy area.

 

Talk to Jeremy about it, and also, if you want to, keep posting the wxact same log.

 

tj.jpg

"Make it idiot proof, and someone will make a better idiot"

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I know it is His cache but. He should inform other users of this site about it's intent. I do not think it is a wise idea to use this site in this manner.You should expect when hiding a cache getting people going to and logging it. If you have other plans for it You should mention it in the cache description. This way it would prevent these situations. This cache should at least been listed as NOT AVAILABLE.

 

742_900.jpg

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If this person is using the cache as part of their grade, then I feel they should have left the logs as they were, to present they project in a true light. But since they are deleting logs then I would suggest the we bypass this cache or have it removed.

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quote:
"...I know you meant well but

your logs were not complimentary, so they could hurt my grade. This is important

because I am using this class to get a CO-OP career opportunity in the GIS field

and I need a good mark in this class..."


 

...he/she should learn how to use a GPS and post a correct set of coordinates.

 

If I were the one giving this 'project' a grade, anyone who 'launders' (deletes logs) their results would get an 'F-'.

 

Too bad we didn't know the person's name and the school that they're attending...

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Well, it sounds to me like cheating the grade... if you do "poor work" then don't delete the comments... imporve what you did... jeeezzz, these kids!!!! icon_confused.gif

 

Agree with the comment that this cacher does not seem to get what this pastime is all about.

 

Take care

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If you care about this child learning a lesson more important than the grade, take a printout of the email correspondence and your cache logs to the school and ask to speak to an administrator. It shouldn't be difficult to ascertain which class the project is for. I think the teacher would be very interested in your story.

 

Worldtraveler

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Looks like the cache hider's got more to learn than just how to use a GPS. I think a teacher would me much more impresses by seeing the student face and correct the inaccuracies and then giving a explanation on why they occurred.

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Thanks for all your comments, folks. We sent a note to the cache owner last night and explained to him that we would be reposting our log without any changes. We wrote that we disagreed with the deletions because our posts were neither inappropriate nor offensive and that deletion of logs for personal gain goes against the spirit of what geocaching is about. We also mentioned that we have brought this incident to the attention of one of the moderators (thanks 300mag!). We shall see what happens. As of right now, our log remains. We don't want to hammer this kid, but at the same time, we want to make him aware that life is not all perfect scores and compliments - take constructive criticism for what it's worth: free advice (not that we criticised him, at least we don't think so). We'll post what happens (if anything) next.

 

Cheers,

Team O.P.P.

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From looking at a previous log of the student's it looks like his name is Joel Binda, as for the school he stated that the T.L.K Party cache was close to his school, so if you REALLY wanted him to learn a lesson it probally wouldn't be too difficult to do so. The URL for the cache is: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=9612

 

Personally, I think he and the other members of their group would get a higher grade by explaining the challenges of the project and what they learned from it rather than just a straight forward hide and seek.

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Team O.P.P.

 

If your logs are deleted again then let me know. I will see if I can contact his teacher. I think I know were he goes to school but I will confirm it tomorrow.

If he is in the peel system then I can find him.

 

Baston

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quote:
Originally posted by Baston:

Team O.P.P.

 

If your logs are deleted again then let me know. I will see if I can contact his teacher. I think I know were he goes to school but I will confirm it tomorrow.

If he is in the peel system then I can find him.

 

Baston


 

...about how you use 'privileged information'. Although you didn't come out and say as much, it sounds as though you may have an inside-track on determining a student's whereabouts within Peel Region's school system; if that's the case, that type of information isn't normally 'public domain' and you - and/or whoever you obtain the information from - could get themselves into a *serious* legal situation (can you say "Lose your job" boys and girls...?).

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that wasn't nice at all, his ego seems to be in the way icon_rolleyes.gif

some of us need to learn how to take constructive criticism and use it to our benefit!!!

However I do believe if the log is abusive or disgruntled and rude it needs to be erased, some of us have to remember the diversity and differences in this sport.

This guy is obviously not in it for the sport and therefore should not waste all of our time!

and off topic a little ..... those of you in the city........come north.....hide more.....get out of the city for awhile! icon_biggrin.gif

Daisies

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Perhaps there is partial truth in the statement. Perhaps the experiment is in the arena of Psychology icon_eek.gificon_eek.gif, and the responses are the experiment icon_confused.gif. His response could be being used to provoke and stimulate icon_wink.gif.

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I do not agree with this fellow's deleting of the posting. Though, I think that everyone is making a huge issue of this. I checked the Geocache page and the second posting by Team O.P.P. was not deleted, so it looks like the problem is settled.

 

ALSO, this tracking, spying or STALKING on this student would also be a Serious Legal Problem as Cache Canucks pointed out. It also would not accomplish much more than stalking this student, who seems to be in the "sport" now that he left the posting.

Maybe if Team O.P.P. isn't too busy drumming up support for his campaign, he could email the person in private converstaion to further pre-occupy the student, And maybe Team O.P.P. could also ask for some compensation.

icon_wink.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_wink.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by SA80:

I do not agree with this fellow's deleting of the posting. Though, I think that everyone is making a huge issue of this. I checked the Geocache page and the second posting by Team O.P.P. was not deleted, so it looks like the problem is settled.

 

ALSO, this tracking, spying or STALKING on this student would also be a Serious Legal Problem as Cache Canucks pointed out. It also would not accomplish much more than stalking this student, who seems to be in the "sport" now that he left the posting.

Maybe if Team O.P.P. isn't too busy drumming up support for his campaign, he could email the person in private converstaion to further pre-occupy the student, And maybe Team O.P.P. could also ask for some compensation.

icon_wink.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_wink.gif


 

At the risk of getting into a pointless flaming war with people who try to shrug this issue off with some flippant comment about over-reacting without actually reading all the posts, we would like to make a couple of points:

 

1) Our first post clearly stated that TWO previous posts were deleted as well as quoted a response to an e-mail inquiry by us to the cache owner.

 

2)Our second post stated that we e-mailed the cache owner of our intention to re-post our second deleted log. As so astutely pointed out by SA80, this log (technically the third one) remains.

 

We wrote the first post because we had a legitimate concern and wanted some advice and feedback. We received that. We wrote the second post as a courtesy, in order to update the people who have been reading the thread. If this is considered 'drumming up support for his campaign', perhaps some remedial courses in Rhetoric & Hyperbole 101 and are in order. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Thanks to all who provided their opinion on this topic. For the record, we don't want people doing anything extreme or illegal regardless how much this issue really gets under your skin. As far as we are concerned, the cache owner hasn't persisted in deleting any more logs, so lesson learned. Lesson learned for us, too, because we found out how supportive fellow cachers and the admins of this site can be when it comes to protecting the integrity of our game.

 

Team O.P.P.

 

P.S. We had so much free time on our hands that we actually did some CACHING since that fateful weekend. icon_razz.gif

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I would like to know why there is a link when the owner is logged in that says "delete log". If the owner of a cache is allowed to delete a log, then there shouldn't be a confusion over it.

And if the administration has a problem with deleting logs, then they should remove the option from the cache page.

 

Also the first discussion posted by Team O.P.P., has the email that the student sent as a reply to him, I don't suppose he asked the student for permission before posting the private email response on a public discussion board.

 

I would also like to thank Tick & Nammie for Hunting down the student's name and posting it for the rest of the world to carry on the hunt.

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Thank you for the comment, Cache Canucks.

 

But, I am not using any 'privileged information'. I am working on the information that has been made available in the logs and forum.

 

1. Due to the fact that this cache is being used for a class then it is very possible that he is in a GIS/Geography class. icon_razz.gif

 

2. Due to the location of the cache and the location of TLK and the past TLK caches that were being placed. There is a very good chance that the cache owner is a TLK student. icon_smile.gif

 

But my reasoning could be for not.

Who knows. But I think it is time we moved on to more important things.

 

Snow ball caches.

 

icon_biggrin.gif

 

Baston

 

[This message was edited by Baston on October 23, 2002 at 10:05 AM.]

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icon_mad.gif

This information IS Privileged Information.

 

Since it was not posted by the person it concerns.

This information was posted by other people who had no permission to post the student's name or school or whatever.

 

As I stated earlier, some of this info was taken from the private email sent to O.P.P., and none of this should have been made public.

 

I don't see anything wrong with Team O.P.P. trying to get some feedback on his problem, but private information should remain private.

 

icon_mad.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Baston:

"...Thank you for the comment, Cache Canucks. But, I am not using any 'privileged information'. I am working on the information that has been made available in the logs and forum..."


 

"...If he is in the peel system then I can find him..." sounds pretty ominous to me and goes far beyond *any* information that "...has been made available in the logs and forum...".

 

Lets keep this all in its proper perspective and remember that GeoCaching is 'just a game'.

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Somehow, this thread has gone off on a tangent. The original post was about whether deleting logs for personal gain was appropriate or not. It appears everyone is in agreement that this particular cache owner shouldn't have been doing what he did. As far as we know, no further logs have been deleted for the same reason.

 

As far as the 'Delete Log' button being available to the cache owner - the button is there to remove offensive, distasteful or otherwise inappropriate logs. It is also there to remove 'phantom' logs such as those for virtual caches where the person may not have actually visited the cache but attempted to log the find. It is not there for the cache owner to delete logs on a whim merely because he/she feels the comments reflect poorly on the cache.

 

As far as posting the e-mail reply: we decided to post it exactly as received (except for the cache owner's name and e-mail address) so that nothing could be construed as taken out of context. There is nothing privileged or confidential about the e-mail since any number of other cachers would have received a similar reply regarding their deleted logs had we not expressed our objection. There is also nothing that would expose the identity of the student any more than what the cache page provides. No permission is necessary since we were the intended recipients of the e-mail, not someone who intercepted it without consent.

 

Feel free to continue to discuss the topic of deleting logs, but try not to stray off topic. The last thing this kid needs is to feel like they are being persecuted or chased off a game that many of us are passionate about for what appears to be a one-time indiscretion.

 

Happy caching! icon_smile.gif

Team O.P.P.

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The person who did this is both unethical and dishonest . Hope his teacher , prof. or whatever finds out and deals with him / her accordingly .

How would you like to be dependent on such a person for accurate information in a serious situation ?

papa & the bears

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Perhaps Jeremy should be contacted, and the Student in question should be deleted. I am totally against deleting logs, unless they are inflammatory or demeaning in nature, which these clearly were not. I note, as well, that Team OPP has no logs at present on said cache page.

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quote:
Originally posted by Team O.P.P.:

Another student with poor reading comprehension...

perhaps some remedial courses in Rhetoric & Hyperbole 101 and are in order. icon_rolleyes.gif


 

Since I was accused of being a student, and also of having poor reading comprehension, I would like to bring to attention another student with poor reading comprehension.

 

MarinerBC recently stated that the Team OPP log was deleted again, when I checked, the log was right there.

 

Perhaps some remedial courses in English are in order? icon_rolleyes.gif

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