Do new users get free premium memberships?

[+HoochDog]

Some of my caches are premium and some are non-premium.
Some of the premium caches are designated so because I don't think they are appropriate for brand-new cacher who have never played the game before.

However, I frequently get found it logs on them from new users who have made it their first or second find.  
Are these people who pay for membership before ever finding their first cache or is Groundspeak giving out free trials for premium membership to new users?

Just curious!  Thanks!
 

[+TriciaG]

Often they're newbies who pay for membership. Crazy, huh?

[+kunarion]

I’ve seen this most often when a family has found the cache, and a child logs it a while later (with no specifics on the Find circumstances and with today’s date, not the date found).  That can be confusing.  Anyway, Basic members may hunt caches together with Premium members.

 

There are also trial PM memberships in some cases.  New players may pay when they sign up.

[+barefootjeff]

I've seen it a lot here over the last couple of years, particularly during our COVID lockdowns, newbies who've never visited the website with PM (and not just the one week trial) before they even find their first cache. I can't help wondering if there was a social media promotion going on either giving away free PMs or implying that you have to have PM before you can play. I had a few trying to make one of my high D/T multis their first or second find, which didn't go well. None of them have stuck around.

[+cerberus1]

59 minutes ago, HoochDog said:

Some of my caches are premium and some are non-premium.
Some of the premium caches are designated so because I don't think they are appropriate for brand-new cacher who have never played the game before.

However, I frequently get found it logs on them from new users who have made it their first or second find.  
Are these people who pay for membership before ever finding their first cache or is Groundspeak giving out free trials for premium membership to new users?

 

Not sure how you'll fix that...we're seeing a number of phone-app newbs paying for PM right off the bat.   

 

Since we've started, families have gone out together.  Four kids, Mom n Dad all paying PM not happening...

Instead, the kids that have a separate account use one of the alternative methods to log. All approved by Groundspeak.

A basic member can ask geocaching HQ for a trial membership, IIRC good for a week. 

 - If I was them, I'd load all PM caches in the area first...  

There was a marketing promotion a couple years ago that allowed basic members to play as PM while it was on too.

[+GeoElmo6000]

A friend who has been a premium member since 2006 (I started in 2011) said that even back then it was $30 USD per year.  That's roughly $42 USD in today's dollars.  I wouldn't have an issue with Groundspeak raising their prices occasionally, but thank you to Groundspeak for trying to keep it affordable for those of us who are premium members!

[+lee737]

4 hours ago, HoochDog said:

Some of the premium caches are designated so because I don't think they are appropriate for brand-new cacher who have never played the game before.

If this is the case, maybe make them puzzles/multis.... this will usually dissuade most newbies....

 

I found one cache with a friend, as a basic member - had fun, went home and checked out the website. Found my second as a premium member later the same day..... 

[+barefootjeff]

1 minute ago, lee737 said:

If this is the case, maybe make them puzzles/multis.... this will usually dissuade most newbies....

 

Except when they claim a find at the first stage of a multi, or log a DNF (or a found log saying they couldn't find it) at the bogus coordinates of a mystery. They also spend hours looking for the container at EarthCaches or claim a find without answering any of the questions. It then becomes a fruitless exercise for the CO trying to contact them as they never check their throw-away email account and haven't figured out how to use the Message Centre (or just block those annoying notifications).

[+GeoElmo6000]

26 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Except when they claim a find at the first stage of a multi, or log a DNF (or a found log saying they couldn't find it) at the bogus coordinates of a mystery. They also spend hours looking for the container at EarthCaches or claim a find without answering any of the questions. It then becomes a fruitless exercise for the CO trying to contact them as they never check their throw-away email account and haven't figured out how to use the Message Centre (or just block those annoying notifications).

 

We were all new geocachers at one time.  Just be patient and help them along.  I'm sure many COs have had geocachers log finds without signing the logbook, or put a signed log sheet in the first stage of a multi because they thought it was the final and the log was missing, or something similar.  I just reach out to them and explain how the game works and offer to answer any questions they might have about the game.

[+Max and 99]

59 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Except when they claim a find at the first stage of a multi, or log a DNF (or a found log saying they couldn't find it) at the bogus coordinates of a mystery. They also spend hours looking for the container at EarthCaches or claim a find without answering any of the questions. It then becomes a fruitless exercise for the CO trying to contact them as they never check their throw-away email account and haven't figured out how to use the Message Centre (or just block those annoying notifications).

I've seen exactly this too often the past year and a half. Like I posted in another thread (Geopocalypse): today a noob who had never visited the website, zero finds, zero hides, logged two NA on caches who had a last log of Found It. I considered messaging them, decided it's the CO job not mine, and then I thought they probably won't even get or respond to messages.

Edit: I think the reviewer will likely advise them on the two NA logs.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Max and 99

[+Max and 99]

2 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

  I just reach out to them and explain how the game works and offer to answer any questions they might have about the game.

If it's my cache, for sure! I'm very happy to help anyone new to the game.

Someone else's cache.....

And I don't think many in this situation even check messages. I've tried!

Edited January 22, 2022 by Max and 99

[+GeoElmo6000]

6 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

 

We were all new geocachers at one time.  Just be patient and help them along.  I'm sure many COs have had geocachers log finds without signing the logbook, or put a signed log sheet in the first stage of a multi because they thought it was the final and the log was missing, or something similar.  I just reach out to them and explain how the game works and offer to answer any questions they might have about the game.

 

Following up: remember that the first geocache was buried on privately owned property and had food in it.  We all start somewhere!  

[Moun10Bike]

27 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

 

Following up: remember that the first geocache was buried on privately owned property and had food in it.  We all start somewhere!  

Mostly correct except for the private property part - it was in the ROW of an Oregon road (and was wiped out within a few months when the DOT widened the pull-out there). 

[+GeoElmo6000]

4 minutes ago, Moun10Bike said:

Mostly correct except for the private property part - it was in the ROW of an Oregon road (and was wiped out within a few months when the DOT widened the pull-out there). 

 

Thanks for the clarification.  I was going by the quote on the Original Stash page:

"We appreciate Lance Christensen and Port Blakely Tree Farms on whose land this cache is located. We thank them for giving us their permission and continued cooperation. Please show respect for their property while visiting."

 

I assumed that the spot is the same as the original location and that was also on the property.

 

As a side note, one of my best geocaching adventures was a solo trip two days after the Geocaching HQ Block Party in 2013, the day after the mega event at Iron Horse State Park  (going ape or something?), solo driving from Seattle to the Original Stash Tribute Plaque to Mt. St. Helens and back to Seattle in one day.  I found two caches that day and drove 8 hours!  But so worth the trip!  So much fun!

Edited January 23, 2022 by GeoElmo6000

[+lee737]

37 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

 

Following up: remember that the first geocache was buried on privately owned property and had food in it.  We all start somewhere!  

I guess when you bury GC1, you make the rules!

 

[+lee737]

52 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

 

We were all new geocachers at one time.  Just be patient and help them along.  I'm sure many COs have had geocachers log finds without signing the logbook, or put a signed log sheet in the first stage of a multi because they thought it was the final and the log was missing, or something similar.  I just reach out to them and explain how the game works and offer to answer any questions they might have about the game.

I do the same. I still delete logs that need deleting, but do message them to explain why and how they can fix it up. I probably have a 1/3 reply rate.... if we don't try and help and inspire newbies now, we might not have much of a game in a decade.....

[Moun10Bike]

20 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

 

Thanks for the clarification.  I was going by the quote on the Original Stash page:

"We appreciate Lance Christensen and Port Blakely Tree Farms on whose land this cache is located. We thank them for giving us their permission and continued cooperation. Please show respect for their property while visiting."

 

I assumed that the spot is the same as the original location and that was also on the property.

 

That could be. Here is a map of the Original Stash layered on Clackamas County tax parcels. The cache shows as within the ROW, but then the parcel map doesn't line up exactly with the road on OpenStreetMap (shown) or aerial imagery.

 

[+barefootjeff]

2 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

 

We were all new geocachers at one time.  Just be patient and help them along.  I'm sure many COs have had geocachers log finds without signing the logbook, or put a signed log sheet in the first stage of a multi because they thought it was the final and the log was missing, or something similar.  I just reach out to them and explain how the game works and offer to answer any questions they might have about the game.

 

How do you help them along? They ignore emails and Message Centre messages most of the time and if there is evetnually a response, it's usually terse or aggressive, as if it's all my fault that EarthCaches have stupid questions about stupid geology that have to be answered.

 

When I started I didn't have a smart phone or even one that was mildly moronic, all it could do was make phone calls and send SMSs and even those it didn't do very well. I learnt about geocaching in a magazine article (yes, words printed on paper, no less!) which included the website's URL, so I spent several excited hours reading all the geocaching101 stuff and everything else I could find before I dared attempt my first cache. That one, a short walk from home, I was able to find just from the satellite image and a bit of guesswork from the hint, then I went off and bought a Garmin 62s which a local electronics retailer had on special. Once I'd spent a month or so doing an assortment of caches around the local area (most are archived now), I decided a premium membership was the way to go and, well, the rest is history.

 

I didn't bug any COs with "give me a hint" emails, if I couldn't find a cache I just logged a DNF and moved on. One of my DNFs had "bison tube" as the hint but I had no idea what that was, I was thinking it must be something resembling the horn of a bison so it's little wonder I couldn't spot it. Afterwards I did a bit of web searching, found out what they are and went back to make the find. I once logged an NM on a micro that had a full log so I don't know how well that went down, the micro's long gone anyway, but I didn't urinate in any of the caches I found regardless of how impressed or otherwise I was with them. And yes, before you ask, last year I had one of those PM-from-the-get-go never-visited-the-website newbies do that on one of my hides, luckily I was suspicious of their log and went to check on it soon afterwards.

 

I'm more than happy to help out newbies, or even oldies, as long as they're polite and give some indication that they've at least tried a few things first. Sometimes their questions have pointed out an ambiguity in my description or hint which I've then gladly corrected. But sadly most these days just see geocaching as another self-centred phone game to score points on, which they do for a few months until it becomes boring and they move on to something else.

[+kunarion]

1 hour ago, HoochDog said:

Thanks for the discussion. Couple notes from me. 
 

These aren’t members of a family that I speak of. These are new players with new/date-isolated signatures I’ve verified.  I’ve seen people who are brand new log a couple of premium caches and then stop. At the time they log, I can see they are premium members. A couple months later, they show up as basic members. 
 

So, it seems like they either have trial memberships like BFJeff mentioned, or they are successfully cancelling the premium membership. 
 

 

There were "Premium Memberships" available with purchase of certain Geocaching devices.  I don't know if there are still offers like that.  A Geocacher can buy PM for a newbie, maybe there's a generous bahzillionaire gifting PM to people.

 

Are these finds only on PMO caches where Non-PMO caches are in the same area?  Is there a pattern to these finds... such as the new PM cachers always find the same PMO caches in the same sequence?  Or are these one particular cache type?  If there's something strange about this situation that I should watch for, I might look at it.  Just for my own information.  Maybe your PMO caches are just plain exciting to new cachers, and the word got out .  Are these PMO-finding newbies creating problems with the caches?  Can you tell of they're having trouble finding these more advanced caches? 

 

Did such finds occur after the first week of October, or close to Rome, Georgia?  Maybe short duration Premium Memberships were given as door prizes during the Going Caching Mega Event.  I could imagine a "one month PM" card as a door prize from HQ (I mean, it could happen).  But it looks like at least some of your caches are about as far from Rome as mine are.

 

I've never really compared new PM cache finders to non-PM, but my PMO caches (I only have three of those) are very rarely found.  And anything above the difficulty of a park-n-grab tends to be avoided, even when cachers walk right past one to get to the next very easy one.  But a bunch of my non-PMO easy park-n-grabs are also rarely found, so what ya gonna do.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by kunarion

[+kunarion]

1 minute ago, HoochDog said:

Like the event cards you mentioned, One of the hide kits I purchased on geocaching.com came with a card for a free trial of premium. So I know the concept of free trials exist. 
I think they are a good idea. 

 

While clicking around, I'm seeing a lot of Basic Members with 1 find or a handful on various PMO caches.  Now I'm curious .  But suppose these are free short-duration PMO memberships (as prizes or promotions).  I see a lot of Basic newbie cachers who find a couple caches and then seem to quit (even when the log says they enjoyed finding it).  It may be no different if they were handed a free PM membership.  In fact, once they lose all the PM capabilities, caches then look pretty sparse, especially on The App, with only the easiest caches now shown.

[+cerberus1]

2 hours ago, kunarion said:

While clicking around, I'm seeing a lot of Basic Members with 1 find or a handful on various PMO caches.  Now I'm curious . 

But suppose these are free short-duration PMO memberships (as prizes or promotions).  I see a lot of Basic newbie cachers who find a couple caches and then seem to quit (even when the log says they enjoyed finding it).  It may be no different if they were handed a free PM membership.  In fact, once they lose all the PM capabilities, caches then look pretty sparse, especially on The App, with only the easiest caches now shown.

 

Yep, seems the big difference is time in the hobby.  You had to use the website when we started. All caches (but PMO...) were seen/available.

Basic with phones today means you never have to enter the site, and even simple Traditional caches aren't accessible if above 2/2.

"All you get" with PM compared to basic then becomes an issue when some aren't aware of the website. I feel that's on them...

We're keeping our PM up, but we could still be basic members and find the same caches we go for today.   

[+JustFindingOurWay]

Looks like no one has mentioned that the official app lets you buy premium by the month - at a premium   I suspect that's where some of this comes from.

 

My gadget caches are almost always premium, but after a couple showed up on TikTok within a week of posting (complete with spoilers) I was hit with lots of newbie premiums but haven't seen them logging any other caches in the area.

[+kunarion]

6 minutes ago, JustFindingOurWay said:

My gadget caches are almost always premium, but after a couple showed up on TikTok within a week of posting (complete with spoilers) I was hit with lots of newbie premiums but haven't seen them logging any other caches in the area.

I’ve wondered why some of my caches get finds by new members, when certain other caches are routinely skipped over.  A Social Media thing may explain the phenomenon.

 

People might post on Tok Tok their favorite caches.  Once someone finds those, they’ve run out of the favorite kind.  And sure, they don’t have the spoilers for other caches.

 

And The App does make it seem to be pay-to-play.  Which I have no issue with as it applies to using The App.  Apps aren’t cheap.  Yet I do suggest that people first figure out if they enjoy Geocaching.