GeoPoint, a cache tool

[+Sir Lazaruz 2]

When placing a geocache, getting good coordinates is vital.

Why settle for just one coordinate measurement when you can do as many as you want and get an average of those, this will give you a much more accurate point.

 

Features of GeoPoint

 

• Get an average GPS point, based on multiple readings.
• Save the points for later use
• Load an old point and continue to measure
• View the point in Maps
• Copy the coordinates to clipboard

 

Are there any additional features that you would like to see, let me know here or tinydevsoft@gmail.com

 

Download the app here:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tinydevsoft.geopoint

 

• 1.0
  • Initial release
• 1.0.3
  • Performance improvements
• 1.0.4
  • Added option to list and remove individual points within a measurement

 

 

 

Edited December 5 by Sir Lazaruz

[+JohnCNA 55]

I'm not able to locate this app in the Play Store. Why not? Could you provide a link to it in the store? 

 

I use Locus Pro for geocaching, hiking and biking. You might consider talking to the Locus developers to get your app recognized as a Locus add-on app. 

[+kunarion 1581]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 9:00 AM, Sir Lazaruz said:

When placing a geocache, getting good coordinates is vital.

Why settle for just one coordinate measurement when you can do as many as you want and get an average of those, this will give you a much more accurate point.

 

Features of GeoPoint

 

• Get an average GPS point, based on multiple readings.
• Save the points for later use
• Load an old point and continue to measure
• View the point in Maps
• Copy the coordinates to clipboard

 

Are there any additional features that you would like to see, let me know here or tinydevsoft@gmail.com

 

 

Does it default to Geocaching.com formatted coordinates (Garmin default coordinate format)?  All the ones I tried either didn't have that format or you had to change the format in the settings.  I like the suggestion to have it as a Locus plug-in.

 

Also, a schedule would be good.  When "averaging", the plan is to "use data from various times of day, various seasons and weather conditions", but the Apps tend to have no such detail.  And I know that one reason there isn't a plan, is that people would immediately realize that this is way overkill for Geocaching, and therefore they won't complete the task, and then the "averaging App" isn't doing much good without the entire process being performed.  That is, it's about the same as waiting a few extra moments for the GPS to settle out, and using that one point, with no "averaging App".  Not a complaint, I'm just saying that if I'm using an "averaging App", I might as well get the whole shebang, including a schedule with reminders.

[+arisoft 633]

On 11/28/2019 at 4:00 PM, Sir Lazaruz said:

Are there any additional features that you would like to see, let me know here or tinydevsoft@gmail.com

 

Getting the best coordinates is not only averaging by standing on the GZ. For example, in difficult places, mosty in the woods, I average at least four offset positions. For example, 10 meters from the GZ to every cardinal point. When I look the map of these measurements I can easily note how trustworthy these measurements are.  They should look like a square when measurements are succeeded. I suggest you to display a map of all measurements around the GZ. It happens many times that the visual map of measurements is much more accurate to pick the right position than the averaging method only.

Edited November 29 by arisoft

[+kunarion 1581]

1 minute ago, arisoft said:

 

Getting the best coordinates is not only averaging by standing on the GZ. For example, in difficult places, mosty in the woods, I average at least four offset positions. For example, 10 meters from the GZ to every cardinal point. When I look the map of these measurements I can easily note how trustworthy these measurements are.  They should look like a square when measurements are succeeded. I suggest you to display a map of all measurements arounf the GZ. It happens many times that the visual map is much more accurate to pick the right position than the averaging method only.

 

I've never tried the square, sounds pretty cool!

 

I would also like an option to see those raw data points.  Display the points that are part of the calculation (were some points discarded?  I might not want that one strange far point included in the "average" at all).

[+arisoft 633]

7 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

I've never tried the square, sounds pretty cool!

 

 

You can also make a circle by walking aroud the GZ many times and saving lots of coordinates. The GZ should be in the middle of the round-looking shape. No calculations needed!

Edited November 29 by arisoft

[+JohnCNA 55]

23 minutes ago, arisoft said:

For example, in difficult places, mosty in the woods, I average at least four offset positions.

I saw discussions of this type years ago on this site and found this practice to be most useful. Even when using my Garmin's built in averaging function, I found the practice of walking away 50'-100' and navigating back from several different directions would reveal some inaccuracies. I've been using my phone almost exclusively the last couple years and still use this method with good success. It would be great to have an app add a little automation to this process. 

[+arisoft 633]

14 minutes ago, JohnCNA said:

navigating back from several different directions would reveal some inaccuracies

 

This is the most important. You must move enough to get accurate coordinates. Sometimes coordinates may be terribly wrong, especially, when you have just started the device. When you move in such a situation, you may notice that coordinates start approaching the right position bit by bit.

[+Sir Lazaruz 2]

15 hours ago, JohnCNA said:

I'm not able to locate this app in the Play Store. Why not? Could you provide a link to it in the store? 

 

I use Locus Pro for geocaching, hiking and biking. You might consider talking to the Locus developers to get your app recognized as a Locus add-on app. 

 

Sorry, I missed the link, here it is

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tinydevsoft.geopoint

[+Sir Lazaruz 2]

15 hours ago, arisoft said:

 

Getting the best coordinates is not only averaging by standing on the GZ. For example, in difficult places, mosty in the woods, I average at least four offset positions. For example, 10 meters from the GZ to every cardinal point. When I look the map of these measurements I can easily note how trustworthy these measurements are.  They should look like a square when measurements are succeeded. I suggest you to display a map of all measurements around the GZ. It happens many times that the visual map of measurements is much more accurate to pick the right position than the averaging method only.

 

15 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

I've never tried the square, sounds pretty cool!

 

I would also like an option to see those raw data points.  Display the points that are part of the calculation (were some points discarded?  I might not want that one strange far point included in the "average" at all).

 

Both very good suggestions, I will look into this

[+Sir Lazaruz 2]

15 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

Does it default to Geocaching.com formatted coordinates (Garmin default coordinate format)?  All the ones I tried either didn't have that format or you had to change the format in the settings.  I like the suggestion to have it as a Locus plug-in.

 

I use coordinates in the form of for example N 55° 42.907 E 013° 31.707, so yes, I use the same as Geocaching.com

[+Viajero Perdido 520]

23 hours ago, JohnCNA said:

You might consider talking to the Locus developers to get your app recognized as a Locus add-on app. 

 

After the (unrelated) "GPS Averaging" app was sold and turned into malware, the Locus developer brought that function into the app.

 

I think it's still possible to link to an external app though. (I keep and use a pre-malware version of that applet.)

[+JohnCNA 55]

26 minutes ago, Viajero Perdido said:

 

After the (unrelated) "GPS Averaging" app was sold and turned into malware, the Locus developer brought that function into the app.

Where? I don't see that anywhere in my Locus Pro. V3.41.0

[+kunarion 1581]

30 minutes ago, JohnCNA said:

Where? I don't see that anywhere in my Locus Pro. V3.41.0

 

There's a thread about it here:

https://help.locusmap.eu/topic/position-averaging-when-taking-a-waypoint

 

I see more references to it, about "3 months ago", along with it being removed from the App.  Or available in certain versions.  Maybe.  I can't tell. 

 

 

Edited November 30 by kunarion

[+Viajero Perdido 520]

[checks]

 

If you have a GPS-averaging app set up, it shows that, at the bottom of the Select Location screen.

 

If you don't, it instead shows "Stabilized GPS", which fires up the new internal function.

 

3.41.0

 

PS, the malware app seems to have disappeared from the Play Store, good.  There's another with the same name, but it looks unrelated.

 

PPS, what I like about the old averager is that it passes the coords back to Locus.  No need to copy-and-paste, or mess with writing them down.

 

Edited November 30 by Viajero Perdido

[+JohnCNA 55]

1 hour ago, Viajero Perdido said:

If you have a GPS-averaging app set up, it shows that, at the bottom of the Select Location screen.

If you don't, it instead shows "Stabilized GPS", which fires up the new internal function.

3.41.0

 

I do not have anything like this in my version 3.41.0. Do you have a beta version or something?

 

 

Quote

PPS, what I like about the old averager is that it passes the coords back to Locus.  No need to copy-and-paste, or mess with writing them down.

 

Yes, I liked that too.  This one copies to the clipboard and then you can select 'clipboard' in Locus.  I also noticed if you select the 'Open in Maps' option, it shows Locus as one of the mapping options. Opens Locus and places a temporary waypoint on the Locus map screen.

I also noticed a couple other interesting options. If I average for say 20 readings and hit Stop, I can then restart a little later and it will continue with reading #21, etc.

Also, if I save the waypoint within the app, I can open it later and it will show how many readings I took.  I can continue adding more readings and it will continue from where I left off.  I wonder how that might work if I were to record and then stop, then move to another cardinal point 50' away and continue.

 

Edited November 30 by JohnCNA

[+Viajero Perdido 520]

Hm, odd.  My 3.41.0 is the Pro version where I have the old averager installed, and that's what it showed. Another device, same Pro version but no averager, shows built-in function. Beta 3.41.0.5 on latter device, same.  Dunno, sorry.

[+JohnCNA 55]

On 11/30/2019 at 4:09 PM, Viajero Perdido said:

Hm, odd.  My 3.41.0 is the Pro version where I have the old averager installed, and that's what it showed. Another device, same Pro version but no averager, shows built-in function. Beta 3.41.0.5 on latter device, same.  Dunno, sorry.

Quite puzzling.  When I had the now-malware averaging app installed, it showed up in the panel above as you describe.  I deleted it once it started its nasty ad tricks and this one does not show up there.  I believe an app has to register with Locus in order to show up there.  As for the built-in function, I believe it was in one of the beta versions and later removed.

 

[+Sir Lazaruz 2]

On 11/29/2019 at 7:41 PM, kunarion said:

I would also like an option to see those raw data points.  Display the points that are part of the calculation (were some points discarded?  I might not want that one strange far point included in the "average" at all).

 

Now there is an updated version that shows the points and a possibility to remove jumpy readings.

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tinydevsoft.geopoint

 

 

[+arisoft 633]

3 minutes ago, Sir Lazaruz said:

Now there is an updated version that shows the points and a possibility to remove jumpy readings.

 

The screenshot is displaying only raw data. I would like to see a two dimensional chart.

[+kunarion 1581]

30 minutes ago, Sir Lazaruz said:

 

Now there is an updated version that shows the points and a possibility to remove jumpy readings.

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tinydevsoft.geopoint

 

 

It’s looking pretty good!  

I like arisoft’s chart idea, too.  Multiple ways to analyze the data would be good.  Of course, I’d expect it to work automatically, for people who don’t want to dig into the details.

[+Sir Lazaruz 2]

20 hours ago, arisoft said:

 

The screenshot is displaying only raw data. I would like to see a two dimensional chart.

 

Maybe a map with the points mapped out? 

[+arisoft 633]

30 minutes ago, Sir Lazaruz said:

 

Maybe a map with the points mapped out? 

 

Map would be useless at this resolution. We are talking about thousands of minutes.

[+Sir Lazaruz 2]

19 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

Map would be useless at this resolution. We are talking about thousands of minutes.

 

What do you mean with thousands of minutes? 

 

I'm not sure what you are after but this is meant to be a small tool to get good coordinates when placing a geocache, not some hyper accurate precision tool. After all it's used on a phone/tablet so we are limited to the capabilities of that device anyway. 

[+arisoft 633]

It is the last digit.

[+Sir Lazaruz 2]

52 minutes ago, arisoft said:

It is the last digit.

 

But why would you end up with thousands of minutes? For placing a geocache you should be fine with 10-15 measurements. 

[+barefootjeff 1939]

1 hour ago, arisoft said:

It is the last digit.

 

Do you mean thousandths of minutes rather than thousands?

[+The A-Team 1559]

1 hour ago, Sir Lazaruz said:

For placing a geocache you should be fine with 10-15 measurements. 

 

That seems like far too few. If you're out in the open with no obstructions, then that might be enough. As soon as you have an obstructed view of the sky, though, 10-15 would rarely be enough (assuming we're talking about a measurement every second or two). If you're using the averaging method to get coordinates, you want a large enough sample size that any outliers don't unduly affect the average. At the 15-30 second range, the device would usually be wandering too much for the average to be very meaningful. I'd say at least a couple of minutes with measurements taken every second or two should be considered the bare minimum. Even then, a plot or map showing all of the measurements would be handy to be able to see if there are a bunch of outliers that should be discarded or whether the user should start over due to too much wandering. If you want to provide the simplest experience to the user, then you may want to do some of this in the background automatically, but a plot/map wouldn't be a bad idea regardless.

[+arisoft 633]

8 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Do you mean thousandths of minutes rather than thousands?

 

Right 

 

No need for a map at this level of accuracy. Either it is too blurry or misaligned.

 

Once I forgot my GPS tracker on the new cache when trying to find coordinates. It created 24 hours plot making all kind of curves around the GZ. Some of them were way too long from the GZ to take into account.