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Sir Lazaruz

GeoPoint, a cache tool

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When placing a geocache, getting good coordinates is vital.

Why settle for just one coordinate measurement when you can do as many as you want and get an average of those, this will give you a much more accurate point.

 

Features of GeoPoint

 

  • Get an average GPS point, based on multiple readings.
  • Save the points for later use
  • Load an old point and continue to measure
  • View the point in Maps
  • Copy the coordinates to clipboard

 

Are there any additional features that you would like to see, let me know here or tinydevsoft@gmail.com

 

Download the app here:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tinydevsoft.geopoint

 

  • 1.0
    • Initial release
  • 1.0.3
    • Performance improvements
  • 1.0.4
    • Added option to list and remove individual points within a measurement

 

Phone01.png

Phone02.png

Phone03.png

 

 

Edited by Sir Lazaruz
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I'm not able to locate this app in the Play Store. Why not? Could you provide a link to it in the store? 

 

I use Locus Pro for geocaching, hiking and biking. You might consider talking to the Locus developers to get your app recognized as a Locus add-on app. 

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On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 9:00 AM, Sir Lazaruz said:

When placing a geocache, getting good coordinates is vital.

Why settle for just one coordinate measurement when you can do as many as you want and get an average of those, this will give you a much more accurate point.

 

Features of GeoPoint

 

  • Get an average GPS point, based on multiple readings.
  • Save the points for later use
  • Load an old point and continue to measure
  • View the point in Maps
  • Copy the coordinates to clipboard

 

Are there any additional features that you would like to see, let me know here or tinydevsoft@gmail.com

 

 

Does it default to Geocaching.com formatted coordinates (Garmin default coordinate format)?  All the ones I tried either didn't have that format or you had to change the format in the settings.  I like the suggestion to have it as a Locus plug-in.

 

Also, a schedule would be good.  When "averaging", the plan is to "use data from various times of day, various seasons and weather conditions", but the Apps tend to have no such detail.  And I know that one reason there isn't a plan, is that people would immediately realize that this is way overkill for Geocaching, and therefore they won't complete the task, and then the "averaging App" isn't doing much good without the entire process being performed.  That is, it's about the same as waiting a few extra moments for the GPS to settle out, and using that one point, with no "averaging App".  Not a complaint, I'm just saying that if I'm using an "averaging App", I might as well get the whole shebang, including a schedule with reminders.

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On 11/28/2019 at 4:00 PM, Sir Lazaruz said:

Are there any additional features that you would like to see, let me know here or tinydevsoft@gmail.com

 

Getting the best coordinates is not only averaging by standing on the GZ. For example, in difficult places, mosty in the woods, I average at least four offset positions. For example, 10 meters from the GZ to every cardinal point. When I look the map of these measurements I can easily note how trustworthy these measurements are.  They should look like a square when measurements are succeeded. I suggest you to display a map of all measurements around the GZ. It happens many times that the visual map of measurements is much more accurate to pick the right position than the averaging method only.

Edited by arisoft

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1 minute ago, arisoft said:

 

Getting the best coordinates is not only averaging by standing on the GZ. For example, in difficult places, mosty in the woods, I average at least four offset positions. For example, 10 meters from the GZ to every cardinal point. When I look the map of these measurements I can easily note how trustworthy these measurements are.  They should look like a square when measurements are succeeded. I suggest you to display a map of all measurements arounf the GZ. It happens many times that the visual map is much more accurate to pick the right position than the averaging method only.

 

I've never tried the square, sounds pretty cool!

 

I would also like an option to see those raw data points.  Display the points that are part of the calculation (were some points discarded?  I might not want that one strange far point included in the "average" at all).

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7 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

I've never tried the square, sounds pretty cool!

 

 

You can also make a circle by walking aroud the GZ many times and saving lots of coordinates. The GZ should be in the middle of the round-looking shape. No calculations needed!

Edited by arisoft

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23 minutes ago, arisoft said:

For example, in difficult places, mosty in the woods, I average at least four offset positions.

I saw discussions of this type years ago on this site and found this practice to be most useful. Even when using my Garmin's built in averaging function, I found the practice of walking away 50'-100' and navigating back from several different directions would reveal some inaccuracies. I've been using my phone almost exclusively the last couple years and still use this method with good success. It would be great to have an app add a little automation to this process. 

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14 minutes ago, JohnCNA said:

navigating back from several different directions would reveal some inaccuracies

 

This is the most important. You must move enough to get accurate coordinates. Sometimes coordinates may be terribly wrong, especially, when you have just started the device. When you move in such a situation, you may notice that coordinates start approaching the right position bit by bit.

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15 hours ago, JohnCNA said:

I'm not able to locate this app in the Play Store. Why not? Could you provide a link to it in the store? 

 

I use Locus Pro for geocaching, hiking and biking. You might consider talking to the Locus developers to get your app recognized as a Locus add-on app. 

 

Sorry, I missed the link, here it is

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tinydevsoft.geopoint

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15 hours ago, arisoft said:

 

Getting the best coordinates is not only averaging by standing on the GZ. For example, in difficult places, mosty in the woods, I average at least four offset positions. For example, 10 meters from the GZ to every cardinal point. When I look the map of these measurements I can easily note how trustworthy these measurements are.  They should look like a square when measurements are succeeded. I suggest you to display a map of all measurements around the GZ. It happens many times that the visual map of measurements is much more accurate to pick the right position than the averaging method only.

 

15 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

I've never tried the square, sounds pretty cool!

 

I would also like an option to see those raw data points.  Display the points that are part of the calculation (were some points discarded?  I might not want that one strange far point included in the "average" at all).

 

Both very good suggestions, I will look into this :grin:

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15 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

Does it default to Geocaching.com formatted coordinates (Garmin default coordinate format)?  All the ones I tried either didn't have that format or you had to change the format in the settings.  I like the suggestion to have it as a Locus plug-in.

 

I use coordinates in the form of for example N 55° 42.907 E 013° 31.707, so yes, I use the same as Geocaching.com

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23 hours ago, JohnCNA said:

You might consider talking to the Locus developers to get your app recognized as a Locus add-on app. 

 

After the (unrelated) "GPS Averaging" app was sold and turned into malware, the Locus developer brought that function into the app.

 

I think it's still possible to link to an external app though. (I keep and use a pre-malware version of that applet.)

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26 minutes ago, Viajero Perdido said:

 

After the (unrelated) "GPS Averaging" app was sold and turned into malware, the Locus developer brought that function into the app.

Where? I don't see that anywhere in my Locus Pro. V3.41.0

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30 minutes ago, JohnCNA said:

Where? I don't see that anywhere in my Locus Pro. V3.41.0

 

There's a thread about it here:

https://help.locusmap.eu/topic/position-averaging-when-taking-a-waypoint

 

I see more references to it, about "3 months ago", along with it being removed from the App.  Or available in certain versions.  Maybe.  I can't tell. :cute:

 

 

Edited by kunarion

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[checks]

 

If you have a GPS-averaging app set up, it shows that, at the bottom of the Select Location screen.

 

If you don't, it instead shows "Stabilized GPS", which fires up the new internal function.

 

3.41.0

 

PS, the malware app seems to have disappeared from the Play Store, good.  There's another with the same name, but it looks unrelated.

 

PPS, what I like about the old averager is that it passes the coords back to Locus.  No need to copy-and-paste, or mess with writing them down.

 

Edited by Viajero Perdido

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1 hour ago, Viajero Perdido said:

If you have a GPS-averaging app set up, it shows that, at the bottom of the Select Location screen.

If you don't, it instead shows "Stabilized GPS", which fires up the new internal function.

3.41.0

 

I do not have anything like this in my version 3.41.0. Do you have a beta version or something?

 

20191130_151541.jpg

 

Quote

PPS, what I like about the old averager is that it passes the coords back to Locus.  No need to copy-and-paste, or mess with writing them down.

 

Yes, I liked that too.  This one copies to the clipboard and then you can select 'clipboard' in Locus.  I also noticed if you select the 'Open in Maps' option, it shows Locus as one of the mapping options. Opens Locus and places a temporary waypoint on the Locus map screen.

I also noticed a couple other interesting options. If I average for say 20 readings and hit Stop, I can then restart a little later and it will continue with reading #21, etc.

Also, if I save the waypoint within the app, I can open it later and it will show how many readings I took.  I can continue adding more readings and it will continue from where I left off.  I wonder how that might work if I were to record and then stop, then move to another cardinal point 50' away and continue.

 

Edited by JohnCNA

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Hm, odd.  My 3.41.0 is the Pro version where I have the old averager installed, and that's what it showed. Another device, same Pro version but no averager, shows built-in function. Beta 3.41.0.5 on latter device, same.  Dunno, sorry.

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On 11/30/2019 at 4:09 PM, Viajero Perdido said:

Hm, odd.  My 3.41.0 is the Pro version where I have the old averager installed, and that's what it showed. Another device, same Pro version but no averager, shows built-in function. Beta 3.41.0.5 on latter device, same.  Dunno, sorry.

Quite puzzling.  When I had the now-malware averaging app installed, it showed up in the panel above as you describe.  I deleted it once it started its nasty ad tricks and this one does not show up there.  I believe an app has to register with Locus in order to show up there.  As for the built-in function, I believe it was in one of the beta versions and later removed.

 

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On 11/29/2019 at 7:41 PM, kunarion said:

I would also like an option to see those raw data points.  Display the points that are part of the calculation (were some points discarded?  I might not want that one strange far point included in the "average" at all).

 

Now there is an updated version that shows the points and a possibility to remove jumpy readings.

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tinydevsoft.geopoint

 

 

Phone07.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Sir Lazaruz said:

Now there is an updated version that shows the points and a possibility to remove jumpy readings.

 

The screenshot is displaying only raw data. I would like to see a two dimensional chart.

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30 minutes ago, Sir Lazaruz said:

 

Now there is an updated version that shows the points and a possibility to remove jumpy readings.

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tinydevsoft.geopoint

 

 

Phone07.jpg


It’s looking pretty good!  


I like arisoft’s chart idea, too.  Multiple ways to analyze the data would be good.  Of course, I’d expect it to work automatically, for people who don’t want to dig into the details.

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20 hours ago, arisoft said:

 

The screenshot is displaying only raw data. I would like to see a two dimensional chart.

 

Maybe a map with the points mapped out? 

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30 minutes ago, Sir Lazaruz said:

 

Maybe a map with the points mapped out? 

 

Map would be useless at this resolution. We are talking about thousands of minutes.

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19 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

Map would be useless at this resolution. We are talking about thousands of minutes.

 

What do you mean with thousands of minutes? 

 

I'm not sure what you are after but this is meant to be a small tool to get good coordinates when placing a geocache, not some hyper accurate precision tool. After all it's used on a phone/tablet so we are limited to the capabilities of that device anyway. 

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52 minutes ago, arisoft said:

It is the last digit.

 

But why would you end up with thousands of minutes? For placing a geocache you should be fine with 10-15 measurements. 

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1 hour ago, arisoft said:

It is the last digit.

 

Do you mean thousandths of minutes rather than thousands?

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1 hour ago, Sir Lazaruz said:

For placing a geocache you should be fine with 10-15 measurements. 

 

That seems like far too few. If you're out in the open with no obstructions, then that might be enough. As soon as you have an obstructed view of the sky, though, 10-15 would rarely be enough (assuming we're talking about a measurement every second or two). If you're using the averaging method to get coordinates, you want a large enough sample size that any outliers don't unduly affect the average. At the 15-30 second range, the device would usually be wandering too much for the average to be very meaningful. I'd say at least a couple of minutes with measurements taken every second or two should be considered the bare minimum. Even then, a plot or map showing all of the measurements would be handy to be able to see if there are a bunch of outliers that should be discarded or whether the user should start over due to too much wandering. If you want to provide the simplest experience to the user, then you may want to do some of this in the background automatically, but a plot/map wouldn't be a bad idea regardless.

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8 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Do you mean thousandths of minutes rather than thousands?

 

Right :D

 

No need for a map at this level of accuracy. Either it is too blurry or misaligned.

 

Once I forgot my GPS tracker on the new cache when trying to find coordinates. It created 24 hours plot making all kind of curves around the GZ. Some of them were way too long from the GZ to take into account.

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