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April 6, 2019 "Week Rollover" Issue

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On 4/8/2019 at 2:21 PM, Mineral2 said:

Weird. You are running the latest software updates? I don't think I've ever had it give me the wrong date, nor fail to correct to the local time upon fix. I wonder if you need to perform a reset to get everything running right.

 

Looks like my eTrex was due for updates.  Installed a couple updates and now it's showing the correct time when I switch the Time Zone setting back to Automatic. Yay!

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Has anyone figured out if this will affect garmin etrex 10's? We use these at the summer camp I work at and just the other day I ordered 2 new etrex 10's to replace our ancient original etrex. I just found out about the rollover issue and the new recievers are already shipping. 😰

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4 minutes ago, OrganicTorus said:

Has anyone figured out if this will affect garmin etrex 10's? We use these at the summer camp I work at and just the other day I ordered 2 new etrex 10's to replace our ancient original etrex. I just found out about the rollover issue and the new recievers are already shipping. 😰

 

eTrex 10 should be fine 8^)

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2 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

eTrex 10 should be fine 8^)

Wow. Thanks for replying so quickly. That's great news!

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1 minute ago, OrganicTorus said:

Wow. Thanks for replying so quickly. That's great news!

 

I just powered mine up and it is working OK!

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1 minute ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

I just powered mine up and it is working OK!

That's a relief. We run on a tight budget and were planning on using these for many years. We could probably get a refund if we returned them unopened but even then we'd have to buy more expensive models. That or cut geocaching from our programming, which would be a shame since it's easily one of our most popular activities with the kids. Phone reception is not good on our trails and in any case these are going to be handled by kids so we really want something built for geocaching.

 

Thanks for the help!

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, OrganicTorus said:

That's a relief. We run on a tight budget

 

44 minutes ago, OrganicTorus said:

Phone reception is not good on our trails

 

You don't need reception to cache with a phone!  There are apps that work beautifully offline, airplane mode even, just like a GPS unit works offline.  Load everything up in advance.

 

It's a totally budget-friendly choice, and IMHO, my particular phone+app combination works just as well as my old Garmins ever did.  I'm no longer buying GPS units.

 

Got Android?  Try Locus Map.  Got iPhone?  Try Cachly.

 

Edited by Viajero Perdido

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I ran across this post through a Google search and thought I would share my experience.  Unfortunately it looks like my Vista Cx unit has been affected by this rollover (i.e. my GPS has been y2k'd!).  The time of day (if you don't consider DST) and navigation appear to work normally, but the date will be off.  My unit will show a date 1024, 2048, or 3072 weeks into the future depending on what the previous state of the GPS was on last shutdown.  When it hits 4096 weeks, it doesn't actually show this date but instead the unit does a complete cold start and will eventually show the correct time/date once a GPS lock is achieved.  For example, here is the cyclic pattern I've seen with my unit after doing some experimenting this weekend on 2019-04-13:

 

State 1) Date: 2020-07-22, Time: ~5 hours off (DST off). I’m considering this the beginning of the cycle. Every time the GPS starts in this state, it is a complete cold start, regardless if there was a GPS lock before a restart. After the unit searches for satellites and gets a lock, the date and time are updated to the correct date/time.

…restart…

State 2) Date 2038-11-27, Time: correct (DST off). Hot start - quick lock on GPS. This date is 1024 weeks into the future. The date is never updated even after a good soak with a GPS lock.

…restart…

State 3) Date 2078-02-26, Time: correct (DST off). Hot start - quick lock on GPS. This date is 3072 weeks into the future (3 x 1024). The date is never updated even after a good soak with a GPS lock.

…restart…

…cycle repeats…

State 1) Date: 2020-07-22, Time: ~5 hours off (DST off). Cold start. Date/time corrected after lock.

 

I can repeat this cycle many times and get the same result.  For some reason I don't get the 2048 date (2058-07-13) during this exercise, but I have seen it pop up occasionally when I first noticed the issue.  I did this exercise with back to back shutdown/restarts, so perhaps something else happens when the GPS is off for a longer period of time.

 

My concern when I first saw the issue is that I wouldn't be able to save my track logs with accurate time/date information (I'm not a geocacher, but regularly reference my old track logs for planning hiking/skiing/mountaineering trips); however, now that I know the error is predictable I can simply modify the gpx file by subtracting some multiple of 1024 weeks from the date and then correcting the time for DST if necessary.  It's an extra step in the process but it will work for now, at least until I talk myself into buying another GPS.

 

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On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 9:06 AM, Atlas Cached said:

 

Well, that really narrows it down! Garmin only made a few nuvi models...

 

All the same, to make it easier for everyone else, Which nuvi model do you have two of?

 

Regardless, I doubt the satellite acquisition symptom you describe is related to the week rollover issue:

 

 

 

Garmin Nuvi 205W, circa 2010.  Found this thread trying find a fix to this unusual problem.  Sometimes during overcast or other poor weather conditions it would take a while so I gave it a day.  Thought I'd add some data.  Had it been just 1 that failed maybe I wouldn't have gone looking.  Nonetheless, that's my 2 cents.  Quite the strange coincidence.  Hope this helps.

 

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eTrex 10 is a modern one. The original eTrex is affected but still has the location correct. Just the date that's wrong.

 

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I love knowing its the 3rd epoch of GPS, i feel so old

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I now get this for a time on my unit, took it out at 1:38am April 20. Time and date now says April 7, 2019 but a time of 11:10am

 

It's an Etrex yellow original. 

 

 

etrex.jpg

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I have not found any problems in a GPS unit that has a USB connection, whether hand-held or puck.

 

Some of my older serial units have been affected and some have not. Mostly serial pucks and OEM modules that I use for other activities like tracking rockets and high altitude balloons...

 

But if you have an older GPS you haven't tried yet, it would be prudent to check it out. May be time to recycle.

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I wouldn't think of recycling a GPSr just because it's not keeping accurate time or date (with all other functions working). 

So far both pairs of 60csx and our year+ older blue legends still show time n date correctly.  So that's four working okay. 

Am looking at newer models, but some of these tech marvels are kinda wasted on me...     :)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, cerberus1 said:

I wouldn't think of recycling a GPSr just because it's not keeping accurate time or date (with all other functions working). 

So far both pairs of 60csx and our year+ older blue legends still show time n date correctly.  So that's four working okay. 

Am looking at newer models, but some of these tech marvels are kinda wasted on me...     :)

If you're just using the older GPS models for traditional navigation, then I see no reason not to use them until the hardware gives out.

But if you're collecting data or geocaching, there are many advantages of the newer generation over the generation of the 60 series and the old eTrex legend and vista. It's really nice to have mass storage mode, and to be able to drop data into the GPS and retrieve data from the GPS without the need for software. MapSource and BaseCamp are great for organizing and managing data on your GPS and PC, but technically you can grab waypoints and tracks directly from the device without any intermediary. These devices also allow for names greater than 8 characters, very useful if you're collecting large amounts of geospatial data for non-personal use.

And for geocaching... well, anything from the Colorado (2008) and later geocaches like a boss. Geocaches are given their own class and handled separately from waypoints. True paperless caching with field notes so you don't have to remember by hand which caches to log at the end of the day.

Don't get me wrong, each new GPS release also comes with a number of what I call "cosmetic" features - unnecessary additions that expand and bloat the function of a GPS receiver. Some of these I never use (the 3-d view, for example). Some do make operation and use easier, such as advancements in screen readability and customizable buttons (Oregon series). Heck, a GPS itself is an unnecessary tool that simply makes orienteering with a map and compass much easier by eliminating the need to find your location and calculate your bearing by hand. It happens to do other things like record a track of your location in real time and save it both for analysis and plotting later and for retracing your steps if you need to.

With technology, upgrading your peripheral devices isn't always about the shiny new features so much as keeping up with hardware and software standards. I imagine you could rig a 25-year old serial printer to work with a modern PC, but it's just as well to buy a new one that connects via USB, or better yet integrates itself with your wireless network. You can make a PS2 mouse and keyboard work with a USB adapter, or you can just replace them with a USB mouse and keyboard, or better yet, something wireless. Some standards change faster than others, but it does just as well to stay somewhat current so that everything remains compatible with ease. Think of the performance upgrade as a bonus.

Edited by Mineral2
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Posted (edited)

Viajero, Did the 60CSx come good?

That’s one I might have got again just for nostalgia because a lot of memories I have associated with it.

 

I’d be almost happy with it being current if it weren’t for render speed, and no chance of imagery with 8 bit colour.

 

Edited by _Art_

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1 hour ago, _Art_ said:

Viajero, Did the 60CSx come good?

That’s one I might have got again just for nostalgia because a lot of memories I have associated with it.

 

I’d be almost happy with it being current if it weren’t for render speed, and no chance of imagery with 8 bit colour.

 

 

My 60CSx shows the correct date/time etc....

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3 hours ago, _Art_ said:

Viajero, Did the 60CSx come good?

That’s one I might have got again just for nostalgia because a lot of memories I have associated with it.

I’d be almost happy with it being current if it weren’t for render speed, and no chance of imagery with 8 bit colour.

 

Curious, what job or hobby do you appreciate more rendering speed ?      :)

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44 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

Curious, what job or hobby do you appreciate more rendering speed ?      :)

I think the better question to ask is: What job or hobby wouldn't appreciate more rendering speed? Do you enjoy waiting longer for the map to draw and update than your friends with a modern GPS?

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4 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

Curious, what job or hobby do you appreciate more rendering speed ?      :)

3 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

I think the better question to ask is: What job or hobby wouldn't appreciate more rendering speed? Do you enjoy waiting longer for the map to draw and update than your friends with a modern GPS?

 

Actually my question to another poster was because they have no finds,  so simply curious what's the reason to be in such a hurry.  :)

But since you brought it up, like me, my friends aren't in a hurry to run out.

 - We enjoy the long walks far from any roads just fine, thanks, and most times most of us don't even turn our GPSr on until we've been in the woods a while.

 

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_Art_ isn't a geocacher. He made that clear somewhere in the near past when he joined the forums. 

But I think regardless of whether you're a geocacher, or a hiker, or a field scientist, or a geographer, or cyclist, or paddler - whether you're in a hurry or not, it's frustrating when the equipment you use isn't fairly responsive. And yeah, it's relative. 10 years ago, waiting 30 seconds for the map to draw might have felt ok. But once you've used one that can draw the map in 10 seconds or less, it's frustrating to wait any longer. Yes, it's frustrating even when there is no hurry. 

To be honest, even more recent units such as the Oregon 600 chug when drawing a dense map, and it drives me crazy. 

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45 minutes ago, Mineral2 said:

_Art_ isn't a geocacher. He made that clear somewhere in the near past when he joined the forums. 

But I think regardless of whether you're a geocacher, or a hiker, or a field scientist, or a geographer, or cyclist, or paddler - whether you're in a hurry or not, it's frustrating when the equipment you use isn't fairly responsive. And yeah, it's relative. 10 years ago, waiting 30 seconds for the map to draw might have felt ok. But once you've used one that can draw the map in 10 seconds or less, it's frustrating to wait any longer. Yes, it's frustrating even when there is no hurry. 

To be honest, even more recent units such as the Oregon 600 chug when drawing a dense map, and it drives me crazy. 

 

...and I remember thinking when the Oregon 6x0 was released "Wow, this thing is amazingly fast!!!"

 

Not so much any more.

 

 

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I'm gonna have to get my hand on a 700 and a gpsMap 66 to see just how much faster they are.

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Hobby programmer and student Electronics Engineer. Commercial GPS product for me is all about Hiking/Mountaineering/Rock Climbing.

 

 

I’ve tried to load a list of Geocaches on my 66, but that cocked up somehow. If it happened that I was out and a geocache was near,

I’d probably try to find it, but that would be incidental, and you wouldn’t hear about it. For me the treasure is already out there occurring naturally, and waiting to be found. 

At the same time I have no problem with it at all. Whatever gets people outdoors and active is good.

 

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On 4/25/2019 at 5:25 AM, _Art_ said:

Viajero, Did the 60CSx come good?

 

No idea, sorry.  I'm afraid to disturb the layer of dust on my old 60CSx units; sort of a housekeeping experiment.

 

When the year spontaneously became "33" one random day, and stayed that way, a hard reset fixed it.

 

10 hours ago, _Art_ said:

If it happened that I was out and a geocache was near,

I’d probably try to find it

 

For impromptu caching, a smartphone with a caching app in online mode might work well for you.  Even the low-spec phone I use has a screen resolution higher than any consumer Garmin, and the speed of map drawing with "only" four cores is quite adequate; I never notice it.

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There’s merit in tight, robust software running on cheap hardware (60csx). It’s maybe just an esoteric appreciation now, because I do want the fluff of imagery beneath vector mapping.

Through back injury, the most serious stuff is in the past, but I’d have laughed at a phone. That would stay in a small Pelican case, and only come out if needed, and if it might connect.

I’m still not put off by rain, so long as I’m already started, but even if a phone were suitable, It’s maybe still a conceptual appreciation for a better receiver and rugged hardware that I like.

I must also enjoy being disappointed, and complaining their software isn’t as tight as it once was.

 

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4 hours ago, _Art_ said:

 

I must also enjoy being disappointed, and complaining their software isn’t as tight as it once was.

 

 

That's just part of the 'Garmin Experience'...

 

8^)

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60 Cx still rocking the correct date after a 2 week with no batteries installed.

 

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Things could be worse than your handheld.

 

"GPS ROLLOVER GONE WRONG
The April 6 GPS Week Number Rollover was supposed to pass without
a hitch, with plenty of notice that updates might be required for legacy
receivers. Instead, several systems crashed. In China, as many as 15
Boeing 777s and 787s were grounded pending a GPS update (the receivers
gave the date as August 22, 1999.) In New York City, part of the wireless
grid faulted, cutting information feeds to the NYPD (license plate cameras)
and remote worksite communications. In Australia, weather balloons were
grounded. In the United States, NOAA autonomous monitoring stations
went offline. Fixes for all these systems are underway."

 

Courtesy May issue GPS World

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15 minutes ago, jimlarkey said:

Things could be worse than your handheld.

 

"GPS ROLLOVER GONE WRONG
The April 6 GPS Week Number Rollover was supposed to pass without
a hitch, with plenty of notice that updates might be required for legacy
receivers. Instead, several systems crashed. In China, as many as 15
Boeing 777s and 787s were grounded pending a GPS update (the receivers
gave the date as August 22, 1999.) In New York City, part of the wireless
grid faulted, cutting information feeds to the NYPD (license plate cameras)
and remote worksite communications. In Australia, weather balloons were
grounded. In the United States, NOAA autonomous monitoring stations
went offline. Fixes for all these systems are underway."

 

Courtesy May issue GPS World

 

None of those reports seems plausible.  Is there more detail?  It's more like it was carefully worded to sound sensational, than a real thing.  OK, maybe weather balloons have been using very old devices, and a couple of them were never replaced.  But the rest?  Nah.  Not buying it.

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Another large batch of Garmin GPSr using the MTK Chipset Type M/Type M2 have been granted another update to resolve incorrect date displayed.....

 

 

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Got the old trusty 60 CSx out today.  Basically its only function is to serve as a speedometer and odometer to track my kayaking endeavors. Well if there are Kayak caches around I might load them up.  A couple months in after the start of the potential rollover issue and it still works flawless.

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