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OllieJPMartin

Did I do the right thing?

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Hey, new user here.

Still a basic user and trying to get my feet before potentially looking at becoming a premium user.

I found a cache yesterday, which also happens to be on my route to work. And the contents (just a rolled log) were soaking wet. It was a sunny day, but drying it out would have taken too long. So I left a note that I had “taken the cache” and would return it the following morning. I duly dried the pages and the cache at home, but was called out early this morning and couldn’t immediately return the cache. I managed to replace it on my way home from work today, about 24hrs after taking it. And left another note that it was now replaced. I’m sure this was all the CO’s job, but I get the impression all geocachers have some responsibility to maintain caches. Did I do the right thing? Would you advise doing anything different another time?

 

Cache ID: GC21G2A - “Little to say”

Edited by OllieJPMartin

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11 minutes ago, OllieJPMartin said:

Hey, new user here.

Still a basic user and trying to get my feet before potentially looking at becoming a premium user.

I found a cache yesterday, which also happens to be on my route to work. And the contents (just a rolled log) were soaking wet. It was a sunny day, but drying it out would have taken too long. So I left a note that I had “taken the cache” and would return it the following morning. I duly dried the pages and the cache at home, but was called out early this morning and couldn’t immediately return the cache. I managed to replace it on my way home from work today, about 24hrs after taking it. And left another note that it was now replaced. I’m sure this was all the CO’s job, but I get the impression all geocachers have some responsibility to maintain caches. Did I do the right thing? Would you advise doing anything different another time?

 

Cache ID: GC21G2A - “Little to say”

 

I think your intent was honorable and thanks for being willing to help out the CO as well as subsequent cachers. But there are two problems:

  1. Although not your intent and unforseable events made things worse, but taking the cache could have prevented others from finding it, especially those who are unlikely be back in the area.
  2. Cache maintenance is the owner's responsibility. Although you were well-intentioned and willing to help (and we all should be), but performing maintenance for cache owners may foster the attitude of some cache owners that others will maintain it. They may say to themselves, "all I have to do is place it and never worry about it again."
Edited by Team Christiansen
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21 minutes ago, OllieJPMartin said:

Did I do the right thing? Would you advise doing anything different another time?

 

Taking the whole cache was a little bit questionable. Sometimes I take only the wet logbook to dry, for example, in my car while I am searching other caches nearby.

 

I guess, that you will get some answers that you should do nothing what makes the cache better quality, because it may give it a slightly longer life and it is important (for them) that cache will be archived as fast as possible. But there are players who appreciate exactly this kind of care taking. Especially the cache owner will appreciate a lot.

 

Edited by arisoft
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I don't have a "responsibility" to maintain another's cache.

 

I  don't use a phone.  I can't see your note .   I check caches,  read all logs, so when I go to a cache I'm assuming it's there.

By removing a cache from it's location, you could have created more issue than you believe there was.

 - What if someone was stopping after you?   Came from far away just because of D/T, grid, or any number of challenge things. 

They may have had a paper strip to fix it temporarily. 

I'd finally notice your note when I got home to write my DNF and maybe NM, and see it was a "learning experience" thing.

I might still add a NM to my DNF "I didn't find it because...", since seeing similar in the past, I'd think it doubtful you'd return at all.

 

We've left a Rite in Rain strip in caches for wet or full log, but it's meant only  until a CO can fix it themselves.   :)

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Thanks for the advice. I guess if I had been better equipped I might have been  able to replace the log temporarily. One issue was that the inside of the cache was also soaking and putting a dried or new/temporary log in wouldn’t have solved anything.

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24 minutes ago, OllieJPMartin said:

And the contents (just a rolled log) were soaking wet. It was a sunny day, but drying it out would have taken too long. So I left a note that I had “taken the cache” and would return it the following morning.

In addition to what others have written...

 

While I have dried more than a few wet logs myself (typically laying it in a sunny spot or on my vehicle's defroster vent), and while I do carry extra weatherproof log sheets in my geocaching kit, you should keep in mind that you probably haven't really fixed the problem. If the container leaks, then the log is just going to get wet again. The real problem is the leaky container, not the wet log that results from the leaky container. It is possible that the container is perfectly waterproof, and that the log got wet when someone signed it in the rain, but I think the more likely cause is a leaky container.

 

And I while I have taken someone else's cache home with me before, I wouldn't do it for a wet log. The times I've done it have been situations where I could not replace the cache for some reason. For example, in one case the camouflage came apart in my hands when I retrieved the cache, and there was no way to re-hide the container at the cache location without intact camouflage. In that case, I posted a Needs Maintenance log immediately, and also sent the cache owner email immediately after that. Then I worked out with the owner how to get the cache and broken camouflage back to him.

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38 minutes ago, OllieJPMartin said:

Hey, new user here.

Still a basic user and trying to get my feet before potentially looking at becoming a premium user.

I found a cache yesterday, which also happens to be on my route to work. And the contents (just a rolled log) were soaking wet. It was a sunny day, but drying it out would have taken too long. So I left a note that I had “taken the cache” and would return it the following morning. I duly dried the pages and the cache at home, but was called out early this morning and couldn’t immediately return the cache. I managed to replace it on my way home from work today, about 24hrs after taking it. And left another note that it was now replaced. I’m sure this was all the CO’s job, but I get the impression all geocachers have some responsibility to maintain caches. Did I do the right thing? Would you advise doing anything different another time?

 

Cache ID: GC21G2A - “Little to say”

 

That's a lot of effort to dry out a log that will be soggy again with the next rainfall.

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This won't be the first time you'll find a soggy log!  

 

When I've found a wet log or leaky cache I have put a note in my activity and filed an NM so that the cache owner and future geocachers are aware of the issue.  If I took all the caches home I'd probably forget which to return to where :D

 

I'd definitely say removing the cache entirely would be a bad idea.  Without even temporarily leaving anything in its place.  Although that would probably cause all sorts of other issues!

 

As a fairly new geocacher myself I tend to feel it would be best at the moment to let the CO or somebody else sort it, and do my part by writing a log, alerting the CO, filing a NM etc.

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I’m fairly confident that the container wasn’t leaking and put it down to the log being signed in the rain. That’s said it was a very dry day and I didn’t have a way to fully test the cache’s waterproofness.

I’m still keen to know what the ‘correct’ thing to do was, but I get the impression that it depends who I ask.

Thanks for your opinions.

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15 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

That's a lot of effort to dry out a log that will be soggy again with the next rainfall.

 

Not if the protective bag for logbook was also replaced. They are waterproof until a geocacher breaks it.

 

Week ago we found a cache which has been dropped from a tree to ground and was soggy and moldy. When the logbook was dried and put in a waterproof bag with extra silica, we returned it back to the tree. The reason for wet logbook was the broken bag.

Edited by arisoft

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1 hour ago, OllieJPMartin said:

I’m fairly confident that the container wasn’t leaking and put it down to the log being signed in the rain. That’s said it was a very dry day and I didn’t have a way to fully test the cache’s waterproofness.

I’m still keen to know what the ‘correct’ thing to do was, but I get the impression that it depends who I ask.

Thanks for your opinions.

 

I'm not a pro by any means but I'd say the correct procedure would definitely NOT involve taking the cache away.

Edited by EmzyJanezy
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55 minutes ago, OllieJPMartin said:

Did I do the right thing? 

Well now you know to:

1. Don't take the cache home with you

2. Keep some basic supplies with you for finding caches, and if you want, replacing wet logs.

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1 minute ago, OllieJPMartin said:

I’m still keen to know what the ‘correct’ thing to do was, but I get the impression that it depends who I ask.

 

Well, yes. Although the "How is the game played?" section of the Geocaching 101 page says:

Quote

At its simplest level, geocaching requires these 8 steps:

  1. Register for a free Basic Membership.
  2. Visit the "Hide & Seek a Cache" page.
  3. Enter your postal code and click "search."
  4. Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.
  5. Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.
  6. Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.
  7. Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.
  8. Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

 

Anything other than "return the geocache to its original location" is an exception to the normal way to play the game. I don't think wet logs are rare enough to justify an exception.

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I think you should have, at the most, replaced the log. Not taken the cache. What if someone came to find it after you and had to DNF it?

 

What I would have done is logged a find and a NM stating the log is wet and needs to be replaced.

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1 hour ago, OllieJPMartin said:

I’m fairly confident that the container wasn’t leaking and put it down to the log being signed in the rain. That’s said it was a very dry day and I didn’t have a way to fully test the cache’s waterproofness.

I’m still keen to know what the ‘correct’ thing to do was, but I get the impression that it depends who I ask.

Thanks for your opinions.

 

Looking at the cache logs it appears the cache is not keeping water out:

 

05/07/2018

Lovely crop of stingy nettles and log wet. Some weed killer and a new log please. :-)

 

 

03/26/2018

Area could do with a CITO when the time comes around. Cache is wet but still managed to sign.

 

 

And there's one that goes back to 2016

 

10/16/2016

 
The log is very wet but still you can right on it thanks for the cache 

 

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Have you filed a NM log?  If not I think you should.  With a clear indication of the leaky cache / wet log issues.  That would be the best course of action here.

 

Edited by EmzyJanezy

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1 hour ago, arisoft said:

 

Not if the protective bag for logbook was also replaced. They are waterproof until a geocacher breaks it.

 

Week ago we found a cache which has been dropped from a tree to ground and was soggy and moldy. When the logbook was dried and put in a waterproof bag with extra silica, we returned it back to the tree. The reason for wet logbook was the broken bag.

 

What's the saying that gets tossed around the forums? Something like: "If you have to rely on a baggie to keep the log dry, get a better container." 

Might be OK if the cache owner intends to come back monthly to replace the baggie, but as we can see in this case and most cases, the cache owner never returns. 

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1 minute ago, L0ne.R said:

What's the saying that gets tossed around the forums? Something like: "If you have to rely on a baggie to keep the log dry, get a better container." 

Might be OK if the cache owner intends to come back monthly to replace the baggie, but as we can see in this case and most cases, the cache owner never returns. 

 

In this case the CO will return but I had no reason to be served. The setup was risky but it works as long as geocachers do not break the bag. Sometimes it is just enough. The cache was placed 2015 and found 25 times. With a new bag it may last three or more years.

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1 hour ago, L0ne.R said:

 

What's the saying that gets tossed around the forums? Something like: "If you have to rely on a baggie to keep the log dry, get a better container." 

Might be OK if the cache owner intends to come back monthly to replace the baggie, but as we can see in this case and most cases, the cache owner never returns. 

 

On occasions when I've been out kayaking, I've put something I wanted to keep dry (like my GPSr) in one of those sealed plastic bags. Even though it was a brand new bag with no holes and was properly sealed, by the time I reached my destination there were a couple of millimetres of water in the bottom. Double-bagging helps, but they're not waterproof!

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18 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

On occasions when I've been out kayaking, I've put something I wanted to keep dry (like my GPSr) in one of those sealed plastic bags. Even though it was a brand new bag with no holes and was properly sealed, by the time I reached my destination there were a couple of millimetres of water in the bottom. Double-bagging helps, but they're not waterproof!

They work nicely to organize stuff in a larger container, but they aren't waterproof. And if they get caught in the gasket seal of the larger container, then they will wick moisture in.

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26 minutes ago, OllieJPMartin said:

How do I log a NM? Do I just post it on a note?

The same way you log a found/DNF.... choose the right logtype and write what the problem is.

 

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I don't get that option. Is it a premium option? I get:

  • Found it - no longer available as I already found it
  • Did Not Find (DNF)
  • Write Note - no options other than writing basic text

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8 minutes ago, OllieJPMartin said:

I don't get that option. Is it a premium option?

Nope.

 

I guess you are using the GC app. Just open the cache webpage (on the website) and hit "log visit". You then have a choice to log a NM.

 

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1 minute ago, on4bam said:

Nope.

 

I guess you are using the GC app. Just open the cache webpage (on the website) and hit "log visit". You then have a choice to log a NM.

 

Yes that's right. Sadly I only have access to a PC during the week at work. I still don't get "NM" as such, but I can Write a Note, then choose "Report a problem", I take it that's what I'm looking for? I was looking for the text "Needs Maintenance"

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46 minutes ago, OllieJPMartin said:

Yes that's right. Sadly I only have access to a PC during the week at work. I still don't get "NM" as such, but I can Write a Note, then choose "Report a problem", I take it that's what I'm looking for? I was looking for the text "Needs Maintenance"

 

On the phone app, when you open up the geocache info, scroll to the very bottom and there's a "Report a problem with this geocache" option.  Click on that and choose "Maintenance suggested".  Click on that and then write up what the issues are with the cache :)

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3 minutes ago, EmzyJanezy said:

 

On the phone app, when you open up the geocache info, scroll to the very bottom and there's a "Report a problem with this geocache" option.  Click on that and choose "Maintenance suggested".  Click on that and then write up what the issues are with the cache :)

I've been scrolling all over the app and didn't manage to see that!:wacko:

 

Thank you

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Come on People be Kind to the OP. He has only just started caching and is learning the ropes.

During the winter months I make my own log books and always have some with me when out caching. I often read the logs before going out and if I see that a Cache has a wet log book I will contact the owner and ask if I may replace it. I have never had a refusal.

I have also given some owners of good round a baggy full of log books as a thankyou for setting and maintaining the round for others.

 

Just my 5p worth.

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11 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

On occasions when I've been out kayaking, I've put something I wanted to keep dry (like my GPSr) in one of those sealed plastic bags. Even though it was a brand new bag with no holes and was properly sealed, by the time I reached my destination there were a couple of millimetres of water in the bottom. Double-bagging helps, but they're not waterproof!

Dry bags.  Years ago I found some place on the net that had a box of a dozen dry bags that I bought for about $15.  The appeared to have been used by the military for storing a gas mask or something.  They were about 8" x 12" and I got a lot of use out of them.  I never saw a drop of water in any of them if I sealed them properly.   They'd be too large for a log book but a cache container that would require double bagging the log book just to keep it dry has already failed its primary purpose.

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31 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

Dry bags.  Years ago I found some place on the net that had a box of a dozen dry bags that I bought for about $15.  The appeared to have been used by the military for storing a gas mask or something.  They were about 8" x 12" and I got a lot of use out of them.  I never saw a drop of water in any of them if I sealed them properly.   They'd be too large for a log book but a cache container that would require double bagging the log book just to keep it dry has already failed its primary purpose.

 

Yeah, I have a few dry bags I use for my backpack and stuff like that but they're too big for just the GPSr, and anyway I wanted to be able to see it through the bag. Luckily the Garmin was water resistant and no harm was done

Edited by barefootjeff
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11 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

On occasions when I've been out kayaking, I've put something I wanted to keep dry (like my GPSr) in one of those sealed plastic bags. Even though it was a brand new bag with no holes and was properly sealed, by the time I reached my destination there were a couple of millimetres of water in the bottom. Double-bagging helps, but they're not waterproof!

Likewise Jeff. I take my Etrex windsurfing (for speed and tracking purposes) and have double bagged it and water still gets in.

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1 hour ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Yeah, I have a few dry bags I use for my backpack and stuff like that but they're too big for just the GPSr, and anyway I wanted to be able to see it through the bag. Luckily the Garmin was water resistant and no harm was done

 

1 hour ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Yeah, I have a few dry bags I use for my backpack and stuff like that but they're too big for just the GPSr, and anyway I wanted to be able to see it through the bag. Luckily the Garmin was water resistant and no harm was done

 My son is a big waterpark fan and at many of them I've seen small dry bags for sale designed to hold a smart phone.  I used those dry bags I mentioned for my GPS and tethered it to the deck bungies on my kayak.  Even when doing a lot of rolling practice in the kayak they have stayed dry inside. 

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4 hours ago, speakers-corner said:

Come on People be Kind to the OP. He has only just started caching and is learning the ropes.

During the winter months I make my own log books and always have some with me when out caching. I often read the logs before going out and if I see that a Cache has a wet log book I will contact the owner and ask if I may replace it. I have never had a refusal.

I have also given some owners of good round a baggy full of log books as a thankyou for setting and maintaining the round for others.

 

Just my 5p worth.

Thanks for that.

 

I'm not the kind of person who can see something wrong and just leave it. I have a magazine dump-pouch on my rucksack specifically for throwing rubbish in that I find when I'm walking because I can't stand the idea that it's someone else's problem. So when I come across a faulty cache I'm probably always going to try and rectify it somehow. I really just wanted to get some ideas from people so I can be better prepared another time and avoid some of the mistakes I clearly made.

Edited by OllieJPMartin
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52 minutes ago, OllieJPMartin said:

Thanks for that.

 

I'm not the kind of person who can see something wrong and just leave it. I have a magazine dump-pouch on my rucksack specifically for throwing rubbish in that I find when I'm walking because I can't stand the idea that it's someone else's problem. So when I come across a faulty cache I'm probably always going to try and rectify it somehow. I really just wanted to get some ideas from people so I can be better prepared another time and avoid some of the mistake I clearly made.

 

Just a thought - make sure you read up on "throw downs".  This is when a geoacher thinks a cache is missing and decides to 'helpfully' replace it.  However, this can lead to problems and is generally frowned upon.  I think the best course of action in the first instance if you see something wrong is to contact the CO :)

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3 hours ago, OllieJPMartin said:

Thanks for that.

 

I'm not the kind of person who can see something wrong and just leave it. I have a magazine dump-pouch on my rucksack specifically for throwing rubbish in that I find when I'm walking because I can't stand the idea that it's someone else's problem. So when I come across a faulty cache I'm probably always going to try and rectify it somehow. I really just wanted to get some ideas from people so I can be better prepared another time and avoid some of the mistakes I clearly made.

Your hearts in the right place but consider this.     Many caches are kept alive long after the owner has moved on because people insist on doing the maintenance work for them.    The decision to replace a log from time to time isn't black and white.   In some cases dropping a new log in a cache is ok.  I'll do it on occasion if I know the owner is active and typically maintains their caches.   Replacing a container is a whole n 'other thing.     To be honest I'd rather have someone post a NM letting me know I need to do some work on my cache.     It reminds me I have skin in the game and a responsibility to my fellow cachers.   It also gives me a reason to be pro-active and take a look at other caches I may have in the area. 

 

Yes fixing up caches may provide the next person with a better experience but if the owner isn't maintaining them it's only a matter of time before the cache goes bad and the cycle starts all over again.    I try to push cache owner responsibility and good cache maintenance.   Replacing logs and containers for other cache owners sends the opposite message.    Posting the correct logs (DNF, NM, NA) is the best possible way to help make the game a better one.   

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31 minutes ago, justintim1999 said:

Your hearts in the right place but consider this.     Many caches are kept alive long after the owner has moved on because people insist on doing the maintenance work for them.  

 

If the CO is not going to find the cache the maintenance is made for community not for the CO.

 

31 minutes ago, justintim1999 said:

Yes fixing up caches may provide the next person with a better experience but if the owner isn't maintaining them it's only a matter of time before the cache goes bad and the cycle starts all over again. 

 

If we really think this way we should consider archiving all caches before publishing because no cache will survive forever. They are all doomed to be archived at some day.

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24 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

If the CO is not going to find the cache the maintenance is made for community not for the CO.

 

 

If we really think this way we should consider archiving all caches before publishing because no cache will survive forever. They are all doomed to be archived at some day.

My caches will survive because I'll see to it.   If they ever get archived,  I'll be the one archiving them. 

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