I Didn't Have A Pen!!??!!

[+Manville Possum]

27 minutes ago, J Grouchy said:

Some people are inexplicably passionate about the availability and use of pens.

I love pens!  I carry a Fisher Trekker, very similar to the ones sold here.

[+L0ne.R]

18 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

Fisher Trekker,

Sweeet pen. $40 Canadian. I'd throw a temper tantrum if I lost that on the way to a cache. And there's a 50/50 chance I would. I carry around cheap throwaway pens. I had my visor clipped with 10 pens, there's nothing on it now. I must replenish.

[+Manville Possum]

5 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

Sweeet pen. $40 Canadian. I'd throw a temper tantrum if I lost that on the way to a cache. And there's a 50/50 chance I would. I carry around cheap throwaway pens. I had my visor clipped with 10 pens, there's nothing on it now. I must replenish.

 

But it writes so smooth.... and about $10 USD. 

[+J Grouchy]

I've had my old 'American Flag' model since the 1980s when my mother bought me one as a gift.  

Still has the original ink cartridge and it still writes well.  I use it solely for caching.  Looks just like this, but without the weird bump-out part near the writing end.

Edited October 18, 2017 by J Grouchy

[+niraD]

2 hours ago, on4bam said:

Look at it another way, you can cross the street after the light turns green. So as long as the light stays red you can't cross the street.

And in unusual situations, where the light is showing neither red nor green, you can cross the street anyway.

[+dprovan]

1 hour ago, L0ne.R said:

I carry around cheap throwaway pens. I had my visor clipped with 10 pens, there's nothing on it now. I must replenish.

Only cheap? I've gotten to the point where the only pens I ever carry are ones people give out for free as advertising.

2 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

What I've learned from all of this is (and previous "I didn't bring a pen" topics), if you didn't bring a pen (or lost it on the way to the cache, or the ink dried out) don't say anything in the found log.

Well, that depends on whether it's important for you to have your log stand even though you didn't sign the log. I have no problem with a CO exercising his right to delete my log if I can't sign because I don't have a pen, so there'd be no reason for me to hide it. In fact, I'd mention it in the log precisely because that would give the CO the option.

[+The Jester]

4 hours ago, Manville Possum said:

 

Yes, I can enforce the if you don't sign my log then I delete your fake find. 

What about those of us who don't trade swag?  Why aren't you enforcing that 'rule' also?  Same list, same importance.  Inconsistant CO's are a bane on this sport.

[+cerberus1]

3 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

What I've learned from all of this is (and previous "I didn't bring a pen" topics), if you didn't bring a pen (or lost it on the way to the cache, or the ink dried out) don't say anything in the found log.

That sometimes works, and most our fakers do seem to mention their decision to log anyway.

But then comes that one cacher who has to take a log pic of every log they've ever signed, and enters it for all to see.   

[+thebruce0]

3 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

What I've learned from all of this is (and previous "I didn't bring a pen" topics), if you didn't bring a pen (or lost it on the way to the cache, or the ink dried out) don't say anything in the found log.

Until a cache cop comes along, finds the cache without your name on the logsheet and informs the CO. =P

 

4 hours ago, Manville Possum said:

4 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

No. The concept of geocaching is to find it and sign it.  

Exactly what I said.

And what about the rest - "But a signature in the logsheet is not a requirement to log the find online.  It is a requirement to have your find log protected from deletion by the cache owner if they think you didn't really find it."

[+Manville Possum]

4 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Until a cache cop comes along, finds the cache without your name on the logsheet and informs the CO. =P

 

And what about the rest - "But a signature in the logsheet is not a requirement to log the find online.  It is a requirement to have your find log protected from deletion by the cache owner if they think you didn't really find it."

Stuff you made up.

[+Rebore]

27 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

Stuff you made up.

If somebody sends you a photo of the container, the hiding spot and the logbook, would you still delete the online log because it doesn't meet your definition of a find?

[+Mama514]

Yesterday, a girl found one of mine and said she didn't have a pen....said she'd come back and sign later. I'm not going to tell her I'm deleting her log and she can claim a find when she goes back. That would be like treating this adult woman like a child.

[+thebruce0]

2 hours ago, Rebore said:

If somebody sends you a photo of the container, the hiding spot and the logbook, would you still delete the online log because it doesn't meet your definition of a find?

Yes, he would, that much is clear, and that much he is allowed to do.

Other COs might not, and that much they are also allowed to do.

 

2 hours ago, Manville Possum said:

7 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

And what about the rest - "But a signature in the logsheet is not a requirement to log the find online.  It is a requirement to have your find log protected from deletion by the cache owner if they think you didn't really find it."

Stuff you made up.

No. That is fact. That is how the guidelines are enforced. That is allowed. You are most certainly wrong on that point.

If you were right - that a signature is a requirement for logging the find online - then a CO who allows a find log with sufficient evidence of the find (or even without) is wrong, has breached guidelines, can be reported, and the cacher's find log deleted by a reviewer. That would never happen. Guaranteed, in this context.

Edited October 19, 2017 by thebruce0

[+Rebore]

8 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

10 hours ago, Rebore said:

If somebody sends you a photo of the container, the hiding spot and the logbook, would you still delete the online log because it doesn't meet your definition of a find?

Yes, he would, that much is clear, and that much he is allowed to do.

Other COs might not, and that much they are also allowed to do.

It's not very surprising that he gets nasty messages from time to time.

Fun fact: Just because my name is in the logbook, it doesn't mean that I have personally signed the log or found the cache. There's a running gag in a local forum along the lines of "Don't forget to sign for XXX, too!".

[+justintim1999]

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 1:18 PM, cerberus1 said:

Curious what this means...

If my policy was to harbor a grudge against every cache owner I deemed unreasonable and I made it a point not to search for any of their other caches,  eventually I'd find myself traveling further and further away to cache.   It was intended as a joke and I hope NYPaddleCacher took it as such.   

[anpefi]

1 hour ago, Rebore said:

Fun fact: Just because my name is in the logbook, it doesn't mean that I have personally signed the log or found the cache. 

Absolutely true!

Once I found my name in a logbook of a cache which was the first time I found. I had to check the date and then realized that I had been that afternoon with other geocachers who found that cache and signed on my name even though I had left earlier.

I would bet that there are a couple more caches in the area with my name but unfound by me.

[+L0ne.R]

8 minutes ago, anpefi said:

Absolutely true!

Once I found my name in a logbook of a cache which was the first time I found. I had to check the date and then realized that I had been that afternoon with other geocachers who found that cache and signed on my name even though I had left earlier.

I would bet that there are a couple more caches in the area with my name but unfound by me.

Happens all the time in my area when group cachers come through. One person signs the team name. Some groups use the conquer and divide method, so the cache gets logged by 20 people but maybe actually seen/handled, by 1 or 2 people. Same for high terrain. 20 people stay on-shore. 2 people canoe over to the island and log for everyone on-shore. 22 people log a find. The guy who swims over to the island alone and forgot his pen, gets his find deleted.

[TheMrCollin]

Oh snap. I never sign any of them because I just keep track of them on my phone... Is this bad?

[+Manville Possum]

11 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

If you were right - that a signature is a requirement for logging the find online - then a CO who allows a find log with sufficient evidence of the find (or even without) is wrong, has breached guidelines, can be reported, and the cacher's find log deleted by a reviewer. That would never happen. Guaranteed, in this context.

 

Wrong or not, finding a cache and signing the log is the concept of geocaching. I don't play for numbers, and having 10,000 more finds than me does not make you an expert on the subject.

I believe that most of us play the find it sign it game of geocaching, but if you insist on signing the log is not required you are just playing your own version of geocaching.

[+thebruce0]

18 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

Wrong or not, finding a cache and signing the log is the concept of geocaching. I don't play for numbers, and having 10,000 more finds than me does not make you an expert on the subject.

I believe that most of us play the find it sign it game of geocaching

You're not getting what we're saying. And find count is irrelevant.

Everything quoted above we agree with. The spirit of geocaching, when it comes to physical containers, is to find the cache and sign the logsheet. No doubt about it. That is the point, that is the idea, that is the fun.

We're not disputing that.

Once again - "a signature is not a requirement for logging the find online"

Literally. This you say is something I (we) "made up". It is not. It is not a rule. It is not enforceable. It's how the guidelines play out, literally and demonstrably in practice, for years. That's all. That's it.  Signing the logsheet is effectively insurance against the CO deleting your find log. It says nothing about whether you should log finds online without signing the logsheet, as if that is what geocaching is about - that is not what we are saying.  When it comes to the guidelines, the rules are clear: The CO has the final say on valid logs and part of their responsibility is maintaining the cache listing and log history. False finds can (and should) be deleted, except in cases where the log is not verifiably signed. That literally means that online Find logs can remain, even if no signature is in the logsheet, if the CO decides that's okay.

Yes, it means that a cacher might be able to breach the 'spirit' of the game by couch-logging if they can convince the COs they actually found the caches (or find COs who don't care).
Yes, it means that COs might be able to breach the 'spirit' of the game by allowing loads of finds to be logged on a container that does not physically exist at its coordinates and is never signed.
Sadly both of these happen. But all of that is irrelevant to the straightforward point -- a signature is not a requirement for logging the find online. And plenty of examples have been provided in this thread (even if they aren't examples you'd accept for your own ethic), especially the OP - not having a pen does not mean you are disallowed from logging the find online; but it does mean that the CO would be within their rights to delete your online log if choose to, even if you, say, provide photographic evidence.

Can't say it any other way, so if you still don't grasp this, well then, we'll have to let the actual practice of reviewers and GS over the years speak for themselves (ie, letting the CO decide whether a Find log is valid). The way you choose to play is also perfectly valid - so continue deleting Find logs without a signature, and continue to never log a Find on caches for which you haven't signed the logsheet. Props for keeping true to the spirit of the game, really.
Out.

[+NanCycle]

3 hours ago, anpefi said:

Once I found my name in a logbook of a cache which was the first time I found. I had to check the date and then realized that . . . 

on that date I had been caching several miles away from that location.  In between, a group of cacher from out of state came through and treated the whole area like one power trail and jumbled up all the caches.  

This probably also resulted in my name not being on the log of one or more caches that I did find.

[+hzoi]

2 hours ago, TheMrCollin said:

Oh snap. I never sign any of them because I just keep track of them on my phone... Is this bad?

You're supposed to sign the paper log; that's why it's there.  Recommend you get a pen or two.

[+dprovan]

2 hours ago, Manville Possum said:

Wrong or not, finding a cache and signing the log is the concept of geocaching.

We all agree on this. I'm not sure how I can make you understand that.

2 hours ago, Manville Possum said:

I believe that most of us play the find it sign it game of geocaching, but if you insist on signing the log is not required you are just playing your own version of geocaching.

Ah, perhaps this is the problem. We aren't talking about people that routinely claim finds without finding the cache or signing the log. If I detect someone doing that, of course I'll delete their log. This thread is about someone who unintentionally finds themselves without a pen. While we're all supporting your right to delete that log, most COs are more interested in helping seekers have a good time than in making sure seekers follow the letter of the law. But people intentionally abusing the law are a different matter.

[+Manville Possum]

2 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

 

Once again - "a signature is not a requirement for logging the find online"

 

 

I'm really glad to know that now. It makes me feel better. The last two caches that I logged as found online I did not sign the logs. One that was last found in 2012 was only what was left of a log book and some SWAG scattered about. The other cache,  last found in 2014 was missing the lid and there was no log book.

I replaced them with new lock-n-lock containers full of SWAG and official log books from shop Groundspeak. The CO is absent from the game. 

 

Keeping on topic about the pen, I normally upload my found it signature image to the cache page. I have a collection of them. 

[+niraD]

59 minutes ago, hzoi said:

3 hours ago, TheMrCollin said:

Oh snap. I never sign any of them because I just keep track of them on my phone... Is this bad?

You're supposed to sign the paper log; that's why it's there.  Recommend you get a pen or two.

And welcome to geocaching, TheMrCollin!

You might find the following Help Center resources useful: Intro to geocaching

[+thebruce0]

8 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

I replaced them with new lock-n-lock containers full of SWAG and official log books from shop Groundspeak.  The CO is absent from the game. 

Oh that's a whole other (forum) topic

[+Manville Possum]

6 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Oh that's a whole other (forum) topic

 

But I stocked them with writing utensils for the next finders to sign the log book. 

[+cerberus1]

4 hours ago, TheMrCollin said:

Oh snap. I never sign any of them because I just keep track of them on my phone... Is this bad?

One of the basics in "How is the game played?" in Geocaching 101  is, "Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location". 

I know the app used to have nags for folks to read at least the basics.  

[+cerberus1]

dyslexic moment...

Edited October 19, 2017 by cerberus1

[TheMrCollin]

2 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

One of the basics in "How is the game played?" in Geocaching 101  is, "Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location". 

I know the app used to have nags for folks to read at least the basics.  

I observe I'm getting a bit of pushback for not signing haha. But, if the logs just get changed and thrown away, does it actually matter 

[+dprovan]

5 minutes ago, TheMrCollin said:

But, if the logs just get changed and thrown away, does it actually matter 

While I cannot deny some logs are simply thrown away, other cache owners go over the paper logs to see if they match the on-line logs. Also, this isn't just a guideline issue about when a find is valid: from time to time, as a seeker, for various reasons I'm sometimes interested in who's signed the log when I visit a cache, so your mark might help me out in those cases.

[+Rebore]

13 minutes ago, TheMrCollin said:

I observe I'm getting a bit of pushback for not signing haha. But, if the logs just get changed and thrown away, does it actually matter 

No, if you don't mind that your onöine logs might get deleted.

[TheMrCollin]

Ok, thanks! 

[TheMrCollin]

3 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

We keep our ammo can logs, as they're log books, and not simply a Rite in Rain strip.  Some folks earlier (when quite a few still had log books) would write poems, long logs, and even draw pictures in the log book.  Some wouldn't log online, and the logs we saved is the only way to know they even existed. 

We used to save our Rite in Rain strips or small RiR note pads in lower D/T hides, as most don't become pulp like one in our area who uses backs of calendar pages.   But when we did have those hides, we often checked sigs to online.

 - Still do when notified by someone a faker swept through the area, collecting hundreds of caches in multiple states, just so we can delete it with a clear conscience.  

 

Gotcha. Makes sense

[+cerberus1]

15 minutes ago, TheMrCollin said:

I observe I'm getting a bit of pushback for not signing haha. But, if the logs just get changed and thrown away, does it actually matter 

We keep our ammo can logs, as they're log books, and not simply a Rite in Rain strip.  Some folks earlier (when quite a few still had log books) would write poems, long logs, and even draw pictures in the log book.  Some wouldn't log online, and the logs we saved is the only way to know they even existed. 

We used to save our Rite in Rain strips or small RiR note pads in lower D/T hides, as most don't become pulp like one in our area who uses backs of calendar pages.   But when we did have those hides, we often checked sigs to online.

 - Still do when notified by someone a faker swept through the area, collecting hundreds of caches in multiple states, just so we can delete it with a clear conscience.  

 

[+jellis]

It does bother me. I delete those logs. Especially irks me when they say they will come back with a pen. You know they won't come back. Most of my cache pages say "Must sign ..."

 

[+CAVinoGal]

For me, personally, if I didn't have a pen, that's on me ...  usually my caching partner DOES have a pen, or I would do something to get that log signed.  Or come back another day.  Sign the log if at all possible!!  Is not having a pen the same as not having the correct TotT to retrieve a cache?  A pen/pencil should be a given tool in your arsenal 

Now, I have come across caches where the log, in a bison tube, was so waterlogged and mildewed it was unretrievable without destroying it, and completely unsignable.  We DID find the cache, logged a find, and sent the CO a pic of the container and log, explaining why we didn't sign. I doubt our find log will be deleted by that CO.  I've come across a magnetic key holder where the magnetic part was there but the cover, log and anything else was gone - obviously found the cache, but there was no log to sign or even to replace as  I had no cover ... in both of these instances I should have logged a NM.  I didn't (is it too late now? finds were months ago) due to my "newbieness" and not knowing that sending  a private message to the CO was only part of the process.

I think I'm getting a bit off topic here ...

[+geodarts]

What is a writing instrument?  I have been known to start off with a couple of pens but get to a cache without one.   That is why God created leaves.   Or anything else that leaves a mark, which sometimes is as legible as my writing.  

But that leads into a second question.  What is a signature?   Back in the day I used to cache with my real last name online and often signed the log with my real first name.   In any case, I spent years developing my signature and was happy with it.   A person who found a cache after me once complained that my signature was an A with a scrawl.  Actually, I think he meant to imply that I had not signed it.  But I believed that if it works for the courts, it works for this game.   These days you might recognize the G and D, and there often is that squiggly drawing that is meant to approximate a dart hitting a circle.  I leave the drawing out if I sign with a leaf.  

Or for that matter, what's a log?  I once had my online log deleted because I signed a log in the cache, but not the right one.   The  right log was hidden in a container in the cache and the CO had not realized that he had left a second log in a another container in the cache.   We worked it out.  

So while I believe that when you find a cache you sign a log, there is nothing particularly talismanic about any of it.

[Minoes82]

The first thing i have learned was Always bring a pen! So in our two cars there's a pen availble and every bag/ purse i take there is a pen. I do think i need to buy more tweezers

[+jellis]

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 8:38 AM, Manville Possum said:

 

If the log can not be signed for non-pen related reasons. Wet, missing, ect. Sorry I was not more clear.

I had some kids who didn't sign a logbook cause they said it was soaked. I went out there and it was damp, Rite in Rain paper. Nothing wrong with it. But since they sent me a photo I let them slide.

[+JL_HSTRE]

On 10/15/2017 at 10:48 PM, bigjim4life said:

Does this irk me as much as it does other people?  "I didn't have a pen"... then why are you out geocaching?  If a requirement of finding a physical cache (not an Earthcache, Webcam, or Virtual) is that you have to sign the log - should you always try to have a writing utensil with you?  Is it just me, or is that incredibly annoying, that people will go out, without a pen/pencil/marker/crayon/calligrapher and expect to get credit just by saying that you "found it, but didn't have a pen, so couldn't sign it"?

I've been caching for nearly 8 years and closing in on 5000 Finds. I just got back from a week-long vacation where I found close to a hundred caches. I've got a half dozen pens in my center console, plus I had a small notepad with pen for recording which caches I found, notes about each, and EC/VC answers. I also had a paper passport to get stamped at certain caches as part of a series. Most caches involved at least a short hike, but usually only for 1-3 caches so lots of getting in and out of my truck. Sometimes I needed the notepad, sometimes the passport, sometimes neither, sometimes both. Sometimes I also needed to grab my camera and/or hiking stick, sometimes not.

Guess who on more than one occasion forgot to bring a pen to a cache? On one occasion I even forgot the passport that I needed to stamp.

Let's just face it that some of us are space cadets.

[+Manville Possum]

9 hours ago, jellis said:

I had some kids who didn't sign a logbook cause they said it was soaked. I went out there and it was damp, Rite in Rain paper. Nothing wrong with it. But since they sent me a photo I let them slide.

 

I had some kids post that they could not sign because they saw a spider and could not reach the cache. Sorry, but I deleted their log and ONLY because they posted on the cache page that they didn't sign the log. The cache was fine when I checked it. 

 

[+thebruce0]

12 minutes ago, Manville Possum said:

I had some kids post that they could not sign because they saw a spider and could not reach the cache. Sorry, but I deleted their log and ONLY because they posted on the cache page that they didn't sign the log. The cache was fine when I checked it.

What gets me is that there are people who will say this is so legalistic and strict and un-fun and let people cache their own way, etc etc... But, this is really the very basics of geocaching, and logging online: Sign the logsheet. If you don't, whether or not you physically found the cache in person, the CO can deny the online log. It really is simple. And just as someone can say 'hey loosen up and just let the log stand it's just a game', someone else can say 'if it's just a game why is it SO important to you that the log needs to stand?'  It goes both ways. The only difference is, legitimacy of the online log's implication; and only the CO has final decision to determine that. And since legitimacy and accuracy of the online log IS indeed relevant to the community for what it implies about the cache and listing, it is a good thing for the CO to enforce that one very basic rule: A Found It log online should be accompanied by a signature in the logbook as evidence that it's findable. (of course the CO isn't forced to verified every signature, and has leeway to let logs stands if they choose, but again it's about whether the CO feels that the online log history is accurate to the state of their cache).

/rant over

[+L0ne.R]

1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

But, this is really the very basics of geocaching, and logging online: Sign the logsheet.

Unless you can get someone else to sign your trailname in the cache for you. Like group caching -- continue walking down the trail chatting with friends while someone goes in for the find and signs for everyone else. Or someone climbs the tree while a dozen people watch, everyone logs the find. Another person comes along and does exactly what the dozen on the ground did, stare up at the cache and they get their find deleted because they, like a dozen other people, didn't sign the log.

[+cerberus1]

32 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

Unless you can get someone else to sign your trailname in the cache for you. Like group caching -- continue walking down the trail chatting with friends while someone goes in for the find and signs for everyone else. Or someone climbs the tree while a dozen people watch, everyone logs the find. Another person comes along and does exactly what the dozen on the ground did, stare up at the cache and they get their find deleted because they, like a dozen other people, didn't sign the log.

We have a 5T tree hide.  We consider it part of a team if someone's tending gear or taking pics while one member is climbing.  If he brings the log down for all to sign, all members of that team (we feel) helped.  I do the same the rare times I have a camera man, gear tender, or belayer.  They may be necessary for my safety, or most times just really helped me a lot, working as a team.   

It's not the same when a person's just walking by and  sees it...

We've only experienced folks in a group chatting, and not (really) involved in the find once at an annual event in another state.  But we found in later years that different groups weren't doing the same.  A shame your area has so much of that for it to seem a given.

[+Manville Possum]

50 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

Unless you can get someone else to sign your trailname in the cache for you. Like group caching -- continue walking down the trail chatting with friends while someone goes in for the find and signs for everyone else. Or someone climbs the tree while a dozen people watch, everyone logs the find. Another person comes along and does exactly what the dozen on the ground did, stare up at the cache and they get their find deleted because they, like a dozen other people, didn't sign the log.

That reminds me of a local scuba cache virtual and the bubble crew. 

[+thebruce0]

2 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

3 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

But, this is really the very basics of geocaching, and logging online: Sign the logsheet.

Unless you can get someone else to sign your trailname in the cache for you. Like group caching -- continue walking down the trail chatting with friends while someone goes in for the find and signs for everyone else. Or someone climbs the tree while a dozen people watch, everyone logs the find. Another person comes along and does exactly what the dozen on the ground did, stare up at the cache and they get their find deleted because they, like a dozen other people, didn't sign the log.

Yes, but beside the point - name on logsheet was what I was getting at, whether you sign it yourself or someone else does or it's your own name or a group name, whatever, that's a different 'ethic' debate =P. The basic intent is: Sign the logsheet.

[+Rebore]

What about cachers that change their username?

Surely, they have to go back to each cache and sign with their new nick. Some statements in this thread remind me of a song by Denis Leary, which I'm not going to link to.

[+L0ne.R]

4 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Yes, but beside the point - name on logsheet was what I was getting at, whether you sign it yourself or someone else does or it's your own name or a group name, whatever, that's a different 'ethic' debate =P. The basic intent is: Sign the logsheet.

It's part of the whole fuzzy logic of what constitutes a find and what an owner can do with respect to removing someone's find from the logger's record of finds. The person who did the same thing as a dozen other people (feet on the ground, staring up at the cache) gets their find removed.

Or the lone-cacher who climbs the tree, reaches for his pen and it's not in his pocket, he gets his find removed even though he was actually up the tree with the cache in hand.

Maybe the intent of the owner was to have each person who claimed a find, to climb the tree, or visit the island, or repel down the cliff. That owner can't delete the dozen non-finds, but can delete the loan-cacher's find for doing exactly the same thing or for climbing without a pen. 

It's all way too fuzzy for me, can be very unfair, and can promote unsportsmanlike behaviour--get someone to put your name in the cache without having to actually look for or perform the actions required to get the cache (swim, wade, boat, climb, repel, see each stage or even visit) the cache.

Edited November 10, 2017 by L0ne.R
typo/grammar

[+niraD]

14 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

The person who did the same thing as a dozen other people (feet on the ground, staring up at the cache) gets their find removed.

You're focusing on the "feet on the ground" part, which is indeed the same. Others focus on other aspects of the event, and therefore see it differently, for example:

2 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

We have a 5T tree hide.  We consider it part of a team if someone's tending gear or taking pics while one member is climbing.  If he brings the log down for all to sign, all members of that team (we feel) helped.  I do the same the rare times I have a camera man, gear tender, or belayer.  They may be necessary for my safety, or most times just really helped me a lot, working as a team.   

It's not the same when a person's just walking by and  sees it...

 

16 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

Or the loan-cacher who climbs the tree, reaches for his pen and it's not in his pocket, he gets his find removed even though he was actually up the tree with the cache in hand.

This I don't get at all. This hypothetical climber is in a tree. There should be plenty of sources of chlorophyll or other organic materials that can be used to mark the log.