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ripraff

Chapels in cemeteries

138 posts in this topic

9 minutes ago, lumbricus said:

Thanks ripraff and MountainWoods for clarifying. I hope the name chapel will not lead to many 'Nay' votes in the peer review. Example: I've not been in the forum for a while, wait there's a peer review, what chapels? Cemeteries? We have both, for sure I vote 'Nay'. -> Hopefully not many are voting like this. But I still have mixed feelings with chapels, but on the other hand I have no better name for it.

Thanks for your opinion, lumbricus.  This is why I was VERY specific in my description.  My hope is that people actually READ the whole description instead of just the tile, go "pfft" and vote nay.  This is why there is almost two pages of me trying to convince people that I wasn't putting in a redundant category.  I've already had response from Germany and from Austria of these buildings that could be waymarked, but aren't currently, so I know that they are global.  Unfortunately, I haven't found a really good synoym for these buildings other than "chapel".  Ah well, if I beat this dead horse any more, it's gonna start beating me back.  The category has been approved by my officers - it is out in peer review.  I want to thank everyone in the forum who have given me feedback on this.       

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GO VOTE!

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I just voted 'Yea' in Peer Review. The category reads well, contains good photos examples and leaves little confusion for me. Thanks.

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Whoohoo!  I just got the first deny for the category.  Of course, reading the remarks the waymarker left, s/he didn't even read the dang category as it has nothing to do with religion.  Ah well, I knew that I wasn't going to please everyone.  I am encouraged by the positive remarks so far - it's early though... :) 

 

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I did not know that one could delete one's vote.  The tally is now 14 but was at 15 two hours ago.

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3 hours ago, elyob said:

I did not know that one could delete one's vote.  The tally is now 14 but was at 15 two hours ago.

I do not think that it was deleted, just hidden from view. This will also reduce the count. 

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Posted (edited)

Can anyone who is an officer tell me in an email why I'm being removed from this group constantly? If there's an issue or a problem, removing me without consent or reason will not solve anything. Please let me know. Thank you.

Edited by bluesnote
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Here is another cemetery chapel I found in Rosenheim. Upps, I haven't waymarked the cemetery yet. :cute:

 

ausshfr1.jpg

ausshfr4.jpg

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9 hours ago, bluesnote said:

Can anyone who is an officer tell me in an email why I'm being removed from this group constantly? If there's an issue or a problem, removing me without consent or reason will not solve anything. Please let me know. Thank you.

I sent you your answer

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6 hours ago, lumbricus said:

Here is another cemetery chapel I found in Rosenheim. Upps, I haven't waymarked the cemetery yet. :cute:

 

ausshfr1.jpg

ausshfr4.jpg

Ummm...  that "palace" of a chapel kind of puts to shame the two one-room chapels that I have.  I can't wait to see it get posted as it is really very nice!

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"Mortuary Chapel" works. It is the name given to them in Rural Cemetery movement.

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Posted (edited)

On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 0:48 PM, lumbricus said:

Thanks ripraff and MountainWoods for clarifying. I hope the name chapel will not lead to many 'Nay' votes in the peer review. Example: I've not been in the forum for a while, wait there's a peer review, what chapels? Cemeteries? We have both, for sure I vote 'Nay'. -> Hopefully not many are voting like this. But I still have mixed feelings with chapels, but on the other hand I have no better name for it.

Thank you lumbricus.  I finished reading all posts in this thread (up to this reply, of course) before replying to your post.

It does, indeed, there is one nay vote that, from their comment, looks like they simply saw Chapel and Cemetery and voted no without understanding how the buildings we are after in this category are not just another religious building but in a cemetery.  Hopefully, good sense -- and folks actually reading the category description -- will prevail.

Edited by MountainWoods
Redundant "looks like"
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Congratulations!

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41 minutes ago, wayfrog said:

Congratulations!

Thank you Wayfrog.  The category has been activated, and funny thing, I posted the first waymark into it!  LOL!  Thank you to everyone for your feedback on this.  I do need to try to get an icon for the category, though

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Congratulations! Congratulations! Congratulations!

 

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Hello
Is that this chapel of a military cemetery could fall into the category "Chapels in cemeteries", it is the chapel of Notre Dame de Lorette in a military cemetery. Originally there was a chapel of pilgrimage there, but after its destruction during the 1st World War it was destroyed, and rebuilt by the will of the soldiers killed in combat, in the center of the national necropolis.
thank you for the answer

IMG_0300.JPG

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5 hours ago, pmaupin said:

Hello
Is that this chapel of a military cemetery could fall into the category "Chapels in cemeteries", it is the chapel of Notre Dame de Lorette in a military cemetery. Originally there was a chapel of pilgrimage there, but after its destruction during the 1st World War it was destroyed, and rebuilt by the will of the soldiers killed in combat, in the center of the national necropolis.
thank you for the answer

IMG_0300.JPG

It appears from reading different websites that burials have occurred within the building - the French unknown soldiers and victims of the Nazi holocaust.  If this is the case, this would make this building a mausoleum and not eligble for this category.  My best guess is that the burials are directly under the dome (which is the place of honor) and in the main chapel building.  If no burials were in the building, it absolutely belongs.  I hope this helps.

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On 30.7.2017 at 8:55 PM, iconions said:

...I do need to try to get an icon for the category, though

Hi iconions,

until we have a new icon I used the 'Churchyard Cemeteries' icon. Better than the default one.

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Maybe something like that? I modified the 'Religious Buildings Multifarious' category icon. Do we need a cross on it? Don't think so, because the cemetery chapels could be various in their religion.

cemetery_chapels_new.gif

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44 minutes ago, lumbricus said:

Maybe something like that? I modified the 'Religious Buildings Multifarious' category icon. Do we need a cross on it? Don't think so, because the cemetery chapels could be various in their religion.

cemetery_chapels_new.gif

That is PERFECT!  Those buildings could be non-religous, also, so leaving the cross off the building is excellent.

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4 hours ago, iconions said:

It appears from reading different websites that burials have occurred within the building - the French unknown soldiers and victims of the Nazi holocaust.  If this is the case, this would make this building a mausoleum and not eligble for this category.  My best guess is that the burials are directly under the dome (which is the place of honor) and in the main chapel building.  If no burials were in the building, it absolutely belongs.  I hope this helps.

Hello
There are no unknown soldiers or victims of the holocaust buried in the chapel, they are buried in front in the crypt of a lantern tower

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1 hour ago, pmaupin said:

Hello
There are no unknown soldiers or victims of the holocaust buried in the chapel, they are buried in front in the crypt of a lantern tower

Make sure that you document that there are no burials in the chapel building and then post the chapel in the category.  The descriptions I read (and I have to admit that I had to use a translator to read the website) made it seem that there were burials in the chapel.

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19 minutes ago, iconions said:

Make sure that you document that there are no burials in the chapel building and then post the chapel in the category.  The descriptions I read (and I have to admit that I had to use a translator to read the website) made it seem that there were burials in the chapel.

Can you send me the links you have consulted?

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Posted (edited)

iconions, I noticed that you have this category listed under "Meeting Houses"

When you compare Cemetery Chapels with:
AMVETS, 
Elks Lodges
Fraternal Order of Eagles
Grange Halls
Knights of Columbus Councils
Knights of Pythias
Legion Posts and Branches
Masonic Temples
Moose Lodges and Centers
Odd Fellow Lodges
Sokol Centers
VFW Posts
Woman's Clubs

In my opinion not quite a fit, as the above categories have most generally regular scheduled meeting. 

I think that the broader category "Buildings" would be a better placement. I am sure you are aware that placing a category under "Buildings" you do not need to select a sub-category. 

Such as: (just to name a few)
Cityscapes
Coastal Lighthouses
Cobblestone Buildings
Commercial Fishing Ports
Convention Centers
Converted Bank Buildings
Converted Factories
Converted Firehouses
Dairy Creameries
Dated Buildings and Cornerstones
Doorways of the World
Earth Homes
English Heritage 
Flatirons
Geodesic Domes    

 

 

Edited by BK-Hunters
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2 hours ago, pmaupin said:

Can you send me the links you have consulted?

Unfortunately, I do not remember which website that was.  Again, my speaking only English with just enough knowledge of the French language to end up in jail if I tried to speak it makes me rely on a translation program and that program probably did a poor job.  Anyway, this website - http://www.greatwar.co.uk/french-flanders-artois/cemetery-ablain-st-nazaire-notre-dame-de-lorette.htm - explains that the burials that I thought were in the chapel are actually out in the Lantern Tower.  It's actually a nice tradition the French have of lighting the way back for their missing soldiers.

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7 hours ago, BK-Hunters said:

iconions, I noticed that you have this category listed under "Meeting Houses"

When you compare Cemetery Chapels with:
AMVETS, 
Elks Lodges
Fraternal Order of Eagles
Grange Halls
Knights of Columbus Councils
Knights of Pythias
Legion Posts and Branches
Masonic Temples
Moose Lodges and Centers
Odd Fellow Lodges
Sokol Centers
VFW Posts
Woman's Clubs

In my opinion not quite a fit, as the above categories have most generally regular scheduled meeting. 

I think that the broader category "Buildings" would be a better placement. I am sure you are aware that placing a category under "Buildings" you do not need to select a sub-category. 

Such as: (just to name a few)
Cityscapes
Coastal Lighthouses
Cobblestone Buildings
Commercial Fishing Ports
Convention Centers
Converted Bank Buildings
Converted Factories
Converted Firehouses
Dairy Creameries
Dated Buildings and Cornerstones
Doorways of the World
Earth Homes
English Heritage 
Flatirons
Geodesic Domes    

 

 

When you create the category, you can suggest where the category will be placed.  The final decision is Groundspeak's.  Hopefully, Wayfrog looks at your suggestion and acts on it.  I think it would be better suited under the broader buildings category.  I gave the category suggestion my best guess when I was creating, however, I had A LOT more on my tiny brain than where the dang category should go!  LOL

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9 hours ago, iconions said:

Unfortunately, I do not remember which website that was.  Again, my speaking only English with just enough knowledge of the French language to end up in jail if I tried to speak it makes me rely on a translation program and that program probably did a poor job.  Anyway, this website - http://www.greatwar.co.uk/french-flanders-artois/cemetery-ablain-st-nazaire-notre-dame-de-lorette.htm - explains that the burials that I thought were in the chapel are actually out in the Lantern Tower.  It's actually a nice tradition the French have of lighting the way back for their missing soldiers.

Thank you for your answer, but do not worry, my English is so bad that I too will end up in jail, lol.
Indeed it is a beautiful tradition to honor our soldiers.
I will propose the waymark just now.

Good day and happy Waymarking

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11 hours ago, pmaupin said:

Thank you for your answer, but do not worry, my English is so bad that I too will end up in jail, lol.
Indeed it is a beautiful tradition to honor our soldiers.
I will propose the waymark just now.

Good day and happy Waymarking

I approved your waymark - who knew that an actual Basilica would be included into this category.  

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40 minutes ago, iconions said:

I approved your waymark - who knew that an actual Basilica would be included into this category.  

thank you very much
I am glad to participate in this adventure

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On 2.8.2017 at 4:16 AM, iconions said:

..Hopefully, Wayfrog looks at your suggestion and acts on it.  I think it would be better suited under the broader buildings category...

Done.

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Don't know how I missed this earlier, but in the requirements on naming there is a typo: "the" instead of "then".  No big deal.  Just like to be sure everything is readable to the Nth degree. ;)

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Posted (edited)

I have come across a cemetery chapel that was originally built as an ossuary in the early 16th century. It was later (maybe 19th century, no real documentation available) converted to a normal cemetery chapel and does not contain bones any more. Would it qualify for the category?

Edited by fi67
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9 hours ago, fi67 said:

I have come across a cemetery chapel that was originally built as an ossuary in the early 16th century. It was later (maybe 19th century, no real documentation available) converted to a normal cemetery chapel and does not contain bones any more. Would it qualify for the category?

If it meets the other requirements, like no regular services, fully enclosed, and so on, then I'd make no bones about accepting it.

(Sorry.)

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19 hours ago, MountainWoods said:

If it meets the other requirements, like no regular services, fully enclosed, and so on, then I'd make no bones about accepting it.

(Sorry.)

And was denied. I don't have problem with that, but there seems to be some demand to sync the officer's interpretations of the category requirements.

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Well, It turns out that the building is already Waymarked in the Charnel Chapels, Charnel Houses and Ossuaries category, which disqualifies it for cross-posting in this category.  Sorry, I didn't do my homework before replying to your question or I'd have seen that.  But at least you have 2 Waymarks from the same building already, as well as 3 other Waymarks from the cemetery.  That's good.

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28 minutes ago, fi67 said:

And was denied. I don't have problem with that, but there seems to be some demand to sync the officer's interpretations of the category requirements.

I denied it - the reason being is that this category isn't one for mutiplictity.  You also didn't tell MountainWoods that you had already posted this chapel in the Ossuary category in 2015.  Maybe, the demand would be full disclosure when asking the question in the first place?  Not to be mean, but, I would have answered the question the same way with the phrasing of the question IF I hadn't found about the ossuary posting in 2015.   This being a new category, I'm checking everything before approving, including nearby waymarks.  I'm sorry if this is upsetting.

In my category description writeup, I didn't catch ossuaries in the original writeup because we do not have these in the States., I will add that category as specifically denied.  However, if mausoleums are specifically denied in the writeup, why would an active ossuary be accepted which is a building for bones and for containers for bones?  That doesn't make any sense.  Like I wrote in my denial, if you can provide documentation that there are no longer burials (meaning that all bones have been removed making it no longer an ossuary but a chapel) within the building, I will accept.  However, to go and state that this is an ossuary in 2015 and then state that it isn't in 2017, well... 

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33 minutes ago, iconions said:

I denied it - the reason being is that this category isn't one for mutiplictity.  You also didn't tell MountainWoods that you had already posted this chapel in the Ossuary category in 2015.  Maybe, the demand would be full disclosure when asking the question in the first place?  Not to be mean, but, I would have answered the question the same way with the phrasing of the question IF I hadn't found about the ossuary posting in 2015.   This being a new category, I'm checking everything before approving, including nearby waymarks.  I'm sorry if this is upsetting.

In my category description writeup, I didn't catch ossuaries in the original writeup because we do not have these in the States., I will add that category as specifically denied.  However, if mausoleums are specifically denied in the writeup, why would an active ossuary be accepted which is a building for bones and for containers for bones?  That doesn't make any sense.  Like I wrote in my denial, if you can provide documentation that there are no longer burials (meaning that all bones have been removed making it no longer an ossuary but a chapel) within the building, I will accept.  However, to go and state that this is an ossuary in 2015 and then state that it isn't in 2017, well... 

I am not upset. Of course, when a new category comes up, many waymarkers check their old waymarks for an option to cross-post. So did I, and I found about ten. I posted three, five did not have good enough pictures, one turned out to have regular service sometimes, and with the last one I was unsure, so I asked.

I have never stated this was an active ossuary, I posted it as a former ossuary that is now a cemetery chapel then just as I did now. I don't think there is a single active ossuary left in Western Europe, at least I have never heard of one. And I think most people have a wrong idea about ossuaries. There are NEVER burials in an ossuary. They are not graves and there are no graves inside them. They are storage spaces for left over bones once the original grave is dismantled due to lack of burial space. This was very common in Europe in the Middle Ages, in some Catholic areas until the early 20th centuries, but now they are all not active any more.

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1 hour ago, fi67 said:

I am not upset. Of course, when a new category comes up, many waymarkers check their old waymarks for an option to cross-post. So did I, and I found about ten. I posted three, five did not have good enough pictures, one turned out to have regular service sometimes, and with the last one I was unsure, so I asked.

I have never stated this was an active ossuary, I posted it as a former ossuary that is now a cemetery chapel then just as I did now. I don't think there is a single active ossuary left in Western Europe, at least I have never heard of one. And I think most people have a wrong idea about ossuaries. There are NEVER burials in an ossuary. They are not graves and there are no graves inside them. They are storage spaces for left over bones once the original grave is dismantled due to lack of burial space. This was very common in Europe in the Middle Ages, in some Catholic areas until the early 20th centuries, but now they are all not active any more.

I would rather not confuse the point - if the building can be posted under the ossuary category, please post it there.  This category was created to fill a void for those buildings, especially old churches, that can't be waymarked anywhere else.  Many church categories will not accept old non-functioning churches; this is the only reason why these are accepted as converted chapels.  I have added the ossurary category to the prohibited items in the chapel houses.  Thanks.

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