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johnbarber

gpsmap 64s and 250000 caches

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Hi, I'm awaiting delivery of a 64s and would like to know if anyone has been able to replace the preloaded geocaches with their own file? Are the 250k preloaded caches replaceable with your own file of 10's of thousands of caches or would you be limited to the 5000 as on other units? I guess when it gets here I'll find out but I can't seem to find out anything about doing this on any forums.

 

thanks for any help,

John

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The preloaded caches are in GGZ format and can be found in the map <64s>:\\Garmin\GGZ\. They are probably out of date, so you might want to delete them.

 

GGZ files can contain up to 4,000,000 caches, but doesn't support additional waypoints. These can be exported as POI files.

If you place your caches as GPX files you are limited to 5,000 caches, but you are able to use waypoints.

 

To export your caches to GGZ you can use GSAK. The GSAK macro GarminExport is able to export child/additional waypoints as POI.

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[...]

If you place your caches as GPX files you are limited to 5,000 caches, but you are able to use waypoints.[...]

 

The 5000 limit is for waypoints only. Caches are unlimited, even exported as Gpx files.

 

Hans

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There is no limit as stated above on the GPS. However, the practical limit is set by Groundspeak as they have daily download limits of 10000 per day.

 

https://support.garm...1GOAC7SG3rGhV0A

 

The offline limit on loading the unit is NOT given by Groundspeak but by Garmin's software engineers. ;-)

 

Hans

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The offline limit on loading the unit is NOT given by Groundspeak but by Garmin's software engineers. ;-)

 

What exactly are you trying to say here?

 

There is no limit on the number of caches loaded to a Garmin 64 offline. There is a limit to the amount that you can "legally" download per day, set by Groundspeak. This makes a practical limit on the number of caches that can be stored for sending to the GPS.

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The offline limit on loading the unit is NOT given by Groundspeak but by Garmin's software engineers. ;-)

 

What exactly are you trying to say here?

 

There is no limit on the number of caches loaded to a Garmin 64 offline. There is a limit to the amount that you can "legally" download per day, set by Groundspeak. This makes a practical limit on the number of caches that can be stored for sending to the GPS.

 

Ever heard of GSAK and the API or even downloading on consecutive days? That GS has a limit on PQs per day has nothing to do with the capacity of the GPS.

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Thank you to all who have replied to my question. I will use the provided information and see how things work out.

 

Thanks again,

John

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Ever heard of GSAK and the API or even downloading on consecutive days? That GS has a limit on PQs per day has nothing to do with the capacity of the GPS.

 

I never mentioned pocket queries. The 10000 per day is the maximum API limit with limited data and 6000 with full data.

 

I was very clear in what I was stating. The GPS has no limit, but there is a practical limit based on the Groundspeak download policy and that limit depends on the amount of work you want to put into setting up downloads.

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[...] but there is a practical limit based on the Groundspeak download policy and that limit depends on the amount of work you want to put into setting up downloads.

 

The OP never asked for that limit. That way your answer was pretty obsolet.

 

Hans

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Hi, I'm awaiting delivery of a 64s and would like to know if anyone has been able to replace the preloaded geocaches with their own file? Are the 250k preloaded caches replaceable with your own file of 10's of thousands of caches or would you be limited to the 5000 as on other units? I guess when it gets here I'll find out but I can't seem to find out anything about doing this on any forums.

 

thanks for any help,

John

John, the only way I am aware of to edit/add to the supplied GGZ file of caches is to use GSAK. It has an 'export as GGZ' option. I tried it myself for a while when I first got my 64s.

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Ever heard of GSAK and the API or even downloading on consecutive days? That GS has a limit on PQs per day has nothing to do with the capacity of the GPS.

I was very clear in what I was stating. The GPS has no limit, but there is a practical limit based on the Groundspeak download policy and that limit depends on the amount of work you want to put into setting up downloads.

It's no harder to set up downloads for tomorrow than it is for today. You reply was off the mark and misleading.

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OK, OK, everyone is right, no one is wrong, OK?

 

Let's just go hunt tupperware in the forest now and have some fun!

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...... There is a limit to the amount that you can "legally" download per day, set by Groundspeak. .......

 

Hey, what is this "legally" limit?

 

If this is exceeded, can one be criminally charged or sued in a civil action?

Edited by Team CowboyPapa

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Hi, I'm awaiting delivery of a 64s and would like to know if anyone has been able to replace the preloaded geocaches with their own file? Are the 250k preloaded caches replaceable with your own file of 10's of thousands of caches or would you be limited to the 5000 as on other units? I guess when it gets here I'll find out but I can't seem to find out anything about doing this on any forums.

 

thanks for any help,

John

John, the only way I am aware of to edit/add to the supplied GGZ file of caches is to use GSAK. It has an 'export as GGZ' option. I tried it myself for a while when I first got my 64s.

There is also a Win32 command line program called GGZgen that can create GGZ files from GPX files.

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Thanks to everyone, I think I have figured out what needs to be done with GSAK. Should be fairly easy, should be...

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...... There is a limit to the amount that you can "legally" download per day, set by Groundspeak. .......

 

Hey, what is this "legally" limit?

 

If this is exceeded, can one be criminally charged or sued in a civil action?

 

I don't think so. For example, the android app C:GEO accesses the Groundspeak database through means other than the API, which Groundspeak discourages, but I don't think they've yet to set a precedent of taking legal action. If you were to use similar methods to bypass the API restrictions, I don't know if you'd be held liable for your actions.

 

Of course, you could "legally" double your daily limit with a second account. But really, who needs more than 10,000 caches in a single day? Or 16,000? Or 10,000 with PQ + 6000 full API and 10,000 lite API... (is that really access to 26,000 caches daily with a single account?)

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Where is the legal limit defined?

 

Is it a federal law?

Is it a state law?

Is it a county or city ordinance?

 

Like if I walk my dogs in a city park without a leash, the ordinance prohibiting this is: 10-71-32.

 

Huh, all laws have a number, what is the number here?

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It is a limit set by the people providing and owning the data. They will simply remove your account and ban you from use of their services if they decided to. It is an ethical issue. A similar type of illegal activity would be downloading a movie that you have not purchased. Nobody will do anything to you, but you are do something that is not ethical.

Edited by Red90

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And then there is of course the 'legal' option of owning and paying for multiple premium accounts. Giving you access to multiples of 10.000 caches via PQ's and 6000 via the API each day. I know there are some cachers that do have them.

All in all there are some reasons for downloading more than 10.000 caches on your GPS

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"Legal" in the sense and definition of the term is misapplied here. It is a terms of use license. This terms of use license is "legally" defined as a contract between the provider and the user and can only be enforced by liability suits and not by criminal law.

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All this talk of limits imposed by Groundspeak - whether "legally", via Terms of Use, or implied by PQ/API limits - is simply absurd. There is no such limit imposed by Groundspeak, either explicitly or implicitly. If someone wants to methodically use their daily 10000 PQ, 6000 full API, and 10000 "lite" API entitlements to gradually download every cache in the database - even if many of them will be out-of-date by the time they're done - there's nothing stopping them from doing so within any and all laws and Terms of Use. The only limit on the number of caches you can put on your device is the one imposed by the manufacturer of the device. With the latest Garmin devices like the 64s in question, even this limit effectively doesn't exist and it comes down to how much data you can pack into the storage of the device.

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All this talk of limits imposed by Groundspeak - whether "legally", via Terms of Use, or implied by PQ/API limits - is simply absurd. There is no such limit imposed by Groundspeak, either explicitly or implicitly. If someone wants to methodically use their daily 10000 PQ, 6000 full API, and 10000 "lite" API entitlements to gradually download every cache in the database - even if many of them will be out-of-date by the time they're done - there's nothing stopping them from doing so within any and all laws and Terms of Use. The only limit on the number of caches you can put on your device is the one imposed by the manufacturer of the device. With the latest Garmin devices like the 64s in question, even this limit effectively doesn't exist and it comes down to how much data you can pack into the storage of the device.

 

We're not talking about that, though. We're talking about whether it's against the terms of use to find work-arounds on the limits imposed by the API. And workarounds beyond paying for extra accounts just to multiply the daily limits imposed by the servers. For example, bypassing the API to scrape data from the site is frowned upon (even frowned upon to discuss in the forums, so I apologize to the admins if I'm treading a line here, but I'm just trying to make a point). The question of 'legality' is whether this behavior would result in punitive action from Groundspeak. Could they disable an account for such an offense? Sure. Would they? I don't know. Could they file a lawsuit against this kind of behaviour? I suppose that's where we decide if exceeding the daily limit is "legal."

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[...]

 

We're not talking about that, though.[...]

 

Actually the OP and the original thread does. Unfortunately some people with an PC attitude turned that into a quite off topic discussion. ph34r.gif

 

Hans

 

Edit: typo

Edited by HHL

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Moderator Note. The OP's question has been answered and he's acknowledged such. This conversation has turned into a fight for no good reason. As such, Im closing this topic and reminding/requesting that posters to be helpful, respectful, and generally useful in ongoing discourse.

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