Can I place a cache in a building with the owners permission?

January 5, 2016

Ok I did search before posting this, but could not find the answer. Can someone direct me in the written rules, if I can put a cache in a building with the owners permission? I have an opportunity to have a HUGE cache if it is possible.

January 5, 2016

I've seen it done many times but you can't get too "commercial". You aren't allowed to force people to buy something or interact with the staff. Say as little as necessary in your description.

January 5, 2016

Solicitation and Commercial Content • Geocaches do not solicit for any purpose.

Cache listings perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is intended to be an enjoyable, family-friendly hobby, not a platform for an agenda. Cache pages cannot require, and should not strongly encourage, the placement of new caches. This is considered an agenda and the listing will not be publishable.

• Commercial geocaches are disallowed.

Cache listings perceived as commercial will not be published. A commercial cache listing has one or more of the following characteristics:

1.It has overtones of advertising, marketing or promotion.

2.It suggests or requires that the finder go inside a business, interact with employees and/or purchase a product or service.

3.It contains links to businesses, agencies, commercial advertisers, charities, or political or social agendas.

4.It contains the logo of a business or organization, including non-profit organizations.

5.It contains the name of a business or commercial product.

4.8k · January 5, 2016

I'm not sure how you could comply with the following portion of the Guidelines inside a building:

GPS usage is an integral and essential element of both hiding and seeking caches and must be demonstrated for all cache submissions.

Depending on the size of the building, it might be impossible to get a signal to any degree of accuracy.

7.3k · January 5, 2016

I'm not sure how you could comply with the following portion of the Guidelines inside a building:

GPS usage is an integral and essential element of both hiding and seeking caches and must be demonstrated for all cache submissions.

Depending on the size of the building, it might be impossible to get a signal to any degree of accuracy.

Make it a Letterbox Hybrid or Puzzle/Mystery

Various caches inside libraries would be good examples.

B.

January 5, 2016

Solicitation and Commercial Content • Geocaches do not solicit for any purpose.

Cache listings perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is intended to be an enjoyable, family-friendly hobby, not a platform for an agenda. Cache pages cannot require, and should not strongly encourage, the placement of new caches. This is considered an agenda and the listing will not be publishable.

• Commercial geocaches are disallowed.

Cache listings perceived as commercial will not be published. A commercial cache listing has one or more of the following characteristics:

1.It has overtones of advertising, marketing or promotion.

2.It suggests or requires that the finder go inside a business, interact with employees and/or purchase a product or service.

3.It contains links to businesses, agencies, commercial advertisers, charities, or political or social agendas.

4.It contains the logo of a business or organization, including non-profit organizations.

5.It contains the name of a business or commercial product.

That is the provision i remember seeing a long time ago. I certainly understand keeping businesses from taking over the spirit of geocaching, but it messes up a great opportunity to have a great cache that is safe and a safe place to geocache. I guess I will contact them and request a variance... thank you fr finding that for me!

15.4k · January 5, 2016

I've found caches in places where there was no GPS reception, but the cache owner was able to use a GPS device to obtain accurate coordinates, and seekers were able to use those coordinates to identify ground zero.

4.6k · January 5, 2016

One of my founds was inside the waitingroom of a policestation. GPS brought to the front door with HZ pointing indoors. Cache was under the watchful eye of a security camera.

2k · January 5, 2016

The Groundspeak Headquarter cache is inside a building, so I think, hiding a cache inside a building is OK.

4.6k · January 5, 2016

The Groundspeak Headquarter cache is inside a building, so I think, hiding a cache inside a building is OK.

Groundspeak is a business so it's a commercial cache.

Interaction with employees? I guess so.

GPS usage to find a cache? What about the ISS (any correct coordinates on that one?

In short, enough other examples.

22.1k · January 5, 2016

I don't think it's fair to mislead the OP with unique examples like the Geocaching HQ cache. Obviously, the folks who run Geocaching.com made a special exception for the treasure chest in their lobby. The commercialism guideline, which gets at free advertising on the website, isn't a concern for the website's own offices.

The odds of the OP being granted an exception to the "no cache inside a business" are quite low. In my review territory, Geocaching HQ granted one such exception during the 12+ years I've been volunteering. That was in connection with a Mega-Event where the organizers were working closely with the Lackeys.

4.6k · January 5, 2016

I don't think it's fair to mislead the OP with unique examples like the Geocaching HQ cache.

The fact remains there are many exceptions. I have done several caches inside buildings. Some in eateries where beautiful containers ar kept safe with great swag and many TBs. We've done a multi where the cache was moving most of the time . We just had to ask the ferryman for the box, there's the policestation. We've done one where the final was inside a library (too bad it was Sunday, so DNF on that one).

As far as the OP's question, we don't even know if it concerns a business, the question was: "inside a building", so why not?

4.8k · January 5, 2016

Why not? For starters, as Keystone stated, it's misleading to assume it's the norm. It's actually pretty rare, in the larger scheme of things, to find a cache in a building. My guess would be far less than 1% of the active Listings on the site are inside a building. The second point, and perhaps more relevant, this is the Getting Started sub forum. It's unlikely ( other than the ubiquitous library example) that such a submission would get published without question from the Reviewer. I think it's just a matter of being honest about the situation. You might run into an uphill battle so don't be surprised.

2k · January 5, 2016

I don't think it's fair to mislead the OP with unique examples...

I was on vacation in Indonesia last year and out of the 33 cache we found, about 10 were inside shops, Hotels or a coffee shop. There are plenty of cache inside buildings around the world I have found so far, including exhibitions, museums, fairs and so on.

and: "Geocaching HQ granted one such exception during the 12+ years I've been volunteering. That was in connection with a Mega-Event where the organizers were working closely with the Lackeys."

Here in Germany, most regular Event Cache are inside buildings.

2k · January 5, 2016

It's actually pretty rare, in the larger scheme of things, to find a cache in a building.

You are obviously talking about your area, but somewhere else, here in Germany, Luxemburg, Belguim and many other countries there are hundreds of cache inside buildings. It is very common to place cache in "Lost Places" and there are plenty over here.

4.5k · January 5, 2016

I'm not sure how you could comply with the following portion of the Guidelines inside a building:

GPS usage is an integral and essential element of both hiding and seeking caches and must be demonstrated for all cache submissions.

Depending on the size of the building, it might be impossible to get a signal to any degree of accuracy.

Make it a Letterbox Hybrid or Puzzle/Mystery

Various caches inside libraries would be good examples.

B.

Making it a projection type cache where the container is placed a certain distance and direction from the listed coordinates, would be really easy. The problem would probably come in if the question was asked, what kind of building? Or who owns/maintains the building? Private business, city, etc,,,

Edited January 5, 2016 by Mudfrog

4.6k · January 5, 2016

You are obviously talking about your area, but somewhere else, here in Germany, Luxemburg, Belguim and many other countries there are hundreds of cache inside buildings. It is very common to place cache in "Lost Places" and there are plenty over here.

It seems to be common practice here to look at things the American way :blink: but the world is a lot bigger than that.

Once again, one size doesn't fit all

9.2k · January 6, 2016

The fact remains there are many exceptions. I have done several caches inside buildings.

You're making an assumption. It's not an "exception" if the reviewer didn't know it was inside a building. It's a bit harder to get away with that now, as Google shows building locations now, at least in the US.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Prime Suspect

4.6k · January 6, 2016

It's not an "exception" if the reviewer didn't know it was inside a building.

If the listing says it's inside the reviewer knows. I'm "assuming" they read the listing (and sometimes the cachename)/

One extreme example: A cache inside an old army fort, all concrete with "rooms" and corridors. I got a location fix on the roof (you could drive a car/bike up at the back of the fort) went down to the entrance and followed a mental map inside with a flashlight to the cache.

Lots of caches are inside old WW II bunkers too.

22.1k · January 6, 2016

The OP wishes to place a cache inside an active commercial business in Colorado, not in the ruins of a "lost place" in Europe. Please stay on topic.

4.6k · January 6, 2016

The OP wishes to place a cache inside an active commercial business in Colorado, not in the ruins of a "lost place" in Europe. Please stay on topic.

Can you point me to the post that says "commercial"? Must have missed it. I only read "inside" and "owners permission" so it could even be a "lost place"

22.1k · January 6, 2016

Read posts #1 and #6 to understand the OP's "Getting Started" question.

4.6k · January 7, 2016

Ok I did search before posting this, but could not find the answer. Can someone direct me in the written rules, if I can put a cache in a building with the owners permission? I have an opportunity to have a HUGE cache if it is possible.

I see nothing about commercial.

That is the provision i remember seeing a long time ago. I certainly understand keeping businesses from taking over the spirit of geocaching, but it messes up a great opportunity to have a great cache that is safe and a safe place to geocache. I guess I will contact them and request a variance... thank you fr finding that for me!

The OP understands the "commercial rules" and saw a missed opportunity. OK on that.

This was the only post referencing a possible commercial link.

2.6k · January 8, 2016

We have found many caches inside of buildings.

22.1k · January 8, 2016

There are plenty of guidelines-compliant, non-commercial caches hidden inside buildings like public libraries, nonprofit museums, etc. The "adequate GPS use" requirement is solved most easily by a multicache with either an outdoor first stage with a clue to the location indoors, or an indoors first stage with a clue to the location outdoors. Neither option will work, however, for a commercial business.

2.1k · January 8, 2016

I don't think it's fair to mislead the OP with unique examples...

I was on vacation in Indonesia last year and out of the 33 cache we found, about 10 were inside shops, Hotels or a coffee shop. There are plenty of cache inside buildings around the world I have found so far, including exhibitions, museums, fairs and so on.

Yes, and those are terrible and have nothing to do with geocaching. Go to a cafe, asked at the bar for 'the box' and someone hands you the container. I bet they only exist because the owner didn't tell the reviewer how the cache is 'hidden'.

Mrs. terratin

9.2k · January 12, 2016

It's not an "exception" if the reviewer didn't know it was inside a building.

If the listing says it's inside the reviewer knows. I'm "assuming" they read the listing (and sometimes the cachename)/

And if the listing doesn't, then the reviewer probably doesn't know, unless it shows on the map. Hence, my use of the word "if".

January 12, 2016

The easiest way to have a cache inside a building is to make it a letterbox hybrid. More than simply adding a stamp to the cache box, letterboxes are location based hunts that start with a location (i.e. the posted coordinates) and then use more traditional scavenger hunt type clues to find the box. They can include offsets, multis and field puzzles. If you make the posted coordinates and starting location to be the entrance to the building for example, then have the rest of the instructions on the cache page the reviewer will generally allow you to have the cache be inside where gps is not usable. Check out my recently placed cache as an example.

http://coord.info/GC63R5H

Of course, you will need to work with your reviewer to ensure you are complying with the non-commercial clauses.

It should not be too much trouble to find a cool rubber stamp and include it in the cache. If you can, tie the stamp to the cache box with a string so that it does not get mistaken for swag, and put in a larger logbook for the letterboxers to use their stamps to sign in.

Good luck!

Edited January 12, 2016 by railroader921

3.7k · January 12, 2016

http://coord.info/GC9C40

This is the visitor center where the cache is located. You now have the four numbers to open the combination lock to the cache. You have to get to the visitor center before it closes to log this cache. You must sign the logbook.

http://coord.info/GC1NMCE

The cache is located inside the Stone Mountain Village Visitors Center.

http://coord.info/GCD362

(cache is a book in the library stacks)

http://coord.info/GC1875

(cache is located in the stairwell of an upscale hotel)

But, of course, "there are no precedents allowed".

22.1k · January 12, 2016

Letterbox Hybrid caches, like all other geocaches, still require GPS usage as an integral element of the cache hunt experience. That doesn't mean that every step requires coordinates, but at some point along the journey, coordinates are relevant. Posting the coordinates for the front door of a library, museum, etc. is not considered to constitute adequate GPS usage. I am speculating that some discretion was applied in the Utah example because the cache is part of a great official GeoTour. While there are many similar examples, readers should not assume that a Letterbox Hybrid solves for the problem of indoor caches in all cases.

5.7k · January 17, 2016

The OP wishes to place a cache inside an active commercial business in Colorado, not in the ruins of a "lost place" in Europe. Please stay on topic.

You must have information not provided here. So far, all I've been able to discern from the OP's posts is that he wants to place the cache in a building. I have not yet seen that the building is 'commercial' in nature. Here in Colorado, we have an entire SERIES of indoor caches -- though they ARE in libraries.

22.1k · January 17, 2016

Read posts #1 and #6 to understand the OP's "Getting Started" question.

Also, libraries are not commercial businesses.

4.6k · January 17, 2016

Ok I did search before posting this, but could not find the answer. Can someone direct me in the written rules, if I can put a cache in a building with the owners permission? I have an opportunity to have a HUGE cache if it is possible.

Where's the "commercial" side of this?

That is the provision i remember seeing a long time ago. I certainly understand keeping businesses from taking over the spirit of geocaching, but it messes up a great opportunity to have a great cache that is safe and a safe place to geocache. I guess I will contact them and request a variance... thank you fr finding that for me!

Again, it doesn't say the cache will be in a commercial building eventhough it could be.

Read posts #1 and #6 to understand the OP's "Getting Started" question.

Read and not seen it will be in a "commercial" building.

5.7k · January 17, 2016

Just dispelling the idea that 'in building' was in itself an issue.

However, and to the other issue, there are a lot of reviewers that can't possibly miss the fact that caches are being placed in businesses. I don't see this often in the U.S., but have certainly encountered a fair number in my international travels.

Some reviewers are just plain anal about this. I placed a cache overlooking (not on) a PUBLIC golf course, and mentioned the course designer's name (Trent Jones III) and it got bounced because I had mentioned the name of the designer!

So you really never know. Definitely a box of chocolates, and very reviewer dependent. Very inconsistent application - perhaps the most inconsistent of any of the gc.com rules with which I am familiar.

4.6k · January 17, 2016

And again, my reply was censored. :mad:

#1 has NO reference to anything commercial. Even #6 doesn't explicitly say the cache would be in a commercial building.

22.1k · January 17, 2016

Hopefully the beginning hider received sufficiently helpful answers to their "Getting Started" question. Since some have chosen to turn the thread into a nitpicking contest, I'm closing the thread. Readers should keep in mind that the goal of the "Getting Started" forum is to help newer geocachers.

Can I place a cache in a building with the owners permission?

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