I have seen the future ...

2.9k · January 12, 2015

No, that is NOT the main underlying question. It is this ...

If you have made the first find and have capability to log it on the site or quickly at home, and know one or more others might like to know if the FTF is no longer in play, why would you refuse? If you have information you can pass on that may be useful to someone else, why not?

I would like to clarify that I do not intentionally sandbag my logs to lead on people. That said, if I am out caching and will be at it the majority of the day, I will log my caches at home. I do not log in the field, even though I can. I started out like any older-school cacher logging at home and I have not (and will not) change that. If I go cache and get done and have to run by the store first, to the store I go and then I log at home.

No one is saying "FTF hounds" are demanding it. It's not a rule, it is an act of consideration for another (maybe several others). Deny it all you want, but this is merely about courtesy and you have made quite clear courtesy is "crap" to you.

Act of consideration, my sweet patootie. Back in the day, people went at a FTF not knowing if they'd get it or not and they were fine with it. No one thought it rude to log at home. Now all of a sudden it is rude to not immediately log? Get out of here with that "courtesy" talk. Be in denial and call it courtesy all you want...I will remain honest and call it placating.

The original post was a comment on the decline of quality in caching. The many subsequent insulting posts tend to prove the point. I could be wrong but I'm guessing that, if I made the post in 2006, the resulting tone of the subsequent posts would have been much different.

Since I was around back then, I can say it'd probably be the same, only then you'd have 2000 and 2001-era cachers bemoaning the changes.

3.7k · January 12, 2015

No one is saying "FTF hounds" are demanding it. It's not a rule, it is an act of consideration for another (maybe several others). Deny it all you want, but this is merely about courtesy and you have made quite clear courtesy is "crap" to you.

Act of consideration, my sweet patootie. Back in the day, people went at a FTF not knowing if they'd get it or not and they were fine with it. No one thought it rude to log at home. Now all of a sudden it is rude to not immediately log? Get out of here with that "courtesy" talk. Be in denial and call it courtesy all you want...I will remain honest and call it placating.

"Back in the day", smartphones were uncommon and logging on-site - even just a "placeholder" log - was not a reasonable option for most.

Now it's the opposite. I'd bet folks spend fewer hours per week in front of a computer when most have mobile computers in their pockets. A lot has changed in fifteen years, among those is the definition of "timely logging" in this game.

Edited January 12, 2015 by J Grouchy

7.3k · January 12, 2015

I finally have a smart phone for the first time, although my husband has had one for many years. I just can't get used to using a tiny touch screen. I hate it, frankly, and use it as little as possible. I do use the geocaching app sometimes, but I wouldn't use it to log my finds.

2.9k · January 12, 2015

No one is saying "FTF hounds" are demanding it. It's not a rule, it is an act of consideration for another (maybe several others). Deny it all you want, but this is merely about courtesy and you have made quite clear courtesy is "crap" to you.

Act of consideration, my sweet patootie. Back in the day, people went at a FTF not knowing if they'd get it or not and they were fine with it. No one thought it rude to log at home. Now all of a sudden it is rude to not immediately log? Get out of here with that "courtesy" talk. Be in denial and call it courtesy all you want...I will remain honest and call it placating.

"Back in the day", smartphones were uncommon and logging on-site - even just a "placeholder" log - was not a reasonable option for most.

Now it's the opposite. I'd bet folks spend fewer hours per week in front of a computer when most have mobile computers in their pockets. A lot has changed in fifteen years, among those is the definition of "timely logging" in this game.

That much is true. The advent of smart phones and other "on the go" technological devices really ushered in the age of instant gratification, and that has permeated this game...

14k · January 12, 2015

Uncle Alaska makes great points. After FTF, many caches in my area sit for days and weeks on end before another find. If the FTF hounds actually cared about the caches beyond the FTF, they'd go after the caches in a bit more timely manner, don't you think? Why is a cache soooo worthy of attention when it's not been found yet, but the minute it gets found it gets relegated to the "one year I might go after it" file for so many?

So the value of any given cache to any given cacher is measured solely on the amount of time that has passed between it being published and them finding it?

And all the cachers who don't find a cache immediately after publication by that action classify that cache as irrelevant to them?

Sometimes, yes. To FTF hounds, even more likely.

Really?

You honestly believe that any cacher who doesn't find a cache immediately after publication is classifying that cache as irrelevant to them?

Surely not!

That's not what A&T said at all.

How did you get from "sometimes" and more likely for FTF hounds to "any cacher"? Not only have I seen lots of posts about caches getting ignored once a FTF has been identified there was a recent post about "once the podium is full, people stop searching for the caches". It's bad enough that there is so much competition for FTF that it's impacted those that don't play the FTF game, but now the competition extends to who got FTF, Second to Find, and Third to Find.

3.7k · January 12, 2015

Uncle Alaska makes great points. After FTF, many caches in my area sit for days and weeks on end before another find. If the FTF hounds actually cared about the caches beyond the FTF, they'd go after the caches in a bit more timely manner, don't you think? Why is a cache soooo worthy of attention when it's not been found yet, but the minute it gets found it gets relegated to the "one year I might go after it" file for so many?

So the value of any given cache to any given cacher is measured solely on the amount of time that has passed between it being published and them finding it?

And all the cachers who don't find a cache immediately after publication by that action classify that cache as irrelevant to them?

Sometimes, yes. To FTF hounds, even more likely.

Really?

You honestly believe that any cacher who doesn't find a cache immediately after publication is classifying that cache as irrelevant to them?

Surely not!

That's not what A&T said at all.

How did you get from "sometimes" and more likely for FTF hounds to "any cacher"? Not only have I seen lots of posts about caches getting ignored once a FTF has been identified there was a recent post about "once the podium is full, people stop searching for the caches". It's bad enough that there is so much competition for FTF that it's impacted those that don't play the FTF game, but now the competition extends to who got FTF, Second to Find, and Third to Find.

Maybe I ought to offer a prize to the '51st to Find' to drum up visits to my caches... :anibad:

4.6k · January 12, 2015

That's not what A&T said at all.

How did you get from "sometimes" and more likely for FTF hounds to "any cacher"? Not only have I seen lots of posts about caches getting ignored once a FTF has been identified there was a recent post about "once the podium is full, people stop searching for the caches". It's bad enough that there is so much competition for FTF that it's impacted those that don't play the FTF game, but now the competition extends to who got FTF, Second to Find, and Third to Find.

How does A&T conclude that those who enjoy the FTF game opting not rush out for any particular cache once that game has been won indicates that the cache is irrelevant to them?

There are those who enjoy FTF. The window of opportunity is small and has to be grabbed at the earliest opportunity so those caches will typically become higher priority for those people while that window of opportunity exists. Let's call them Set A

There are those who enjoy FTF or 2TF or 3TF - typically described as a podium place and for those people those caches which present those opportunities for enjoyment will typically become higher priority while those opportunities exist. Let's call them Set B

There are those people who don't care about FTF, 2TF or 3TF, and have complete freedom to prioritise caches on whatever arbitrary basis suits them from one minute to the next. Let's call them Set C.

A&T seems to be suggesting that Set A cachers, and perhaps even Set B cachers exercising precisly the same freedom of choice as Set C cachers is somehow reliable indicator of the value those cachers assign to any cache that no longer offers them their podium place opportunities - that caches without those opportunities instantly become irrelevant to cachers from sets A and B - a conclusion which I cannot fathom.

I can't reconcile the idea that someone who enjoys the FTF game who only finds a cache weeks / months / years after they've missed an FTF opportunity is somehow doing a disservice to that cache - or why they should deny themselves the same freedoms as every single Set C cacher.

1.3k · January 13, 2015

No one is saying "FTF hounds" are demanding it. It's not a rule, it is an act of consideration for another (maybe several others).

Once a FTF hound begins whining that they wasted their time because they weren't FTF, it moves beyond hoping for courtesy and into entitlement.

2.9k · January 13, 2015

No one is saying "FTF hounds" are demanding it. It's not a rule, it is an act of consideration for another (maybe several others).

Once a FTF hound begins whining that they wasted their time because they weren't FTF, it moves beyond hoping for courtesy and into entitlement.

This.

3.3k · January 13, 2015

The main, underlying question is this:

Why should cachers be expected to immediately log a FTF to placate FTF hounds?

As for me, I think it boils down to entitlement. Don't give me this crap about courtesy. It's only done to protect the FTF hounds' delicate sensibilities. Heaven forbid they have to discover things on their own.

Sorry, Bub, but I *will* give you "crap" about courtesy. This game survives based on courtesy. Take away the courtesy and this game is finished. Literally. Think about it and you'll see the truth in that. Take away all courtesy (an extreme assumption, true) and by the end of this year the game would be history.

Who feels "entitled"? Is it those who request prompt posting OR is it those who "march to their own drummer" & feel they can do whatever the H they want, whenever they want, regardless of the wishes of others in a jointly - played game. *Those* are the "entitled" ones!

2.9k · January 13, 2015

Who feels "entitled"?

As stated...

Once a FTF hound begins whining that they wasted their time because they weren't FTF, it moves beyond hoping for courtesy and into entitlement.

3.3k · January 13, 2015

Who feels "entitled"?

As stated...

Once a FTF hound begins whining that they wasted their time because they weren't FTF, it moves beyond hoping for courtesy and into entitlement.

None is so blind as he who will not see. A position of "nobody is going to tell me when I have to post a find" is a self-centered, egotistical position. A haughty "entitled" one, perhaps!

2.9k · January 13, 2015

Who feels "entitled"?

As stated...

Once a FTF hound begins whining that they wasted their time because they weren't FTF, it moves beyond hoping for courtesy and into entitlement.

None is so blind as he who will not see. A position of "nobody is going to tell me when I have to post a find" is a self-centered, egotistical position. A haughty "entitled" one, perhaps!

Tell me how it is a "self-centered, egotistical position" to not log the minute one gets a FTF? When did it become a "self-centered, egotistical position" to log when a caching day is done and one is at home, even if one gets a FTF? When did it become a "self-centered, egotistical position" to not placate people?

Using your logic, anyone who gets a FTF and doesn't log immediately (regardless if they own a smart phone or not) is just a bad, bad person. We all know that's false, so where does that leave us?

It leaves us with the knowledge that some people think that we must hold some people's hands in this game and not let them experience it as it was before the advent of technology. You win some you lose some. That's life.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Arthur & Trillian

3.3k · January 13, 2015

Who feels "entitled"?

As stated...

Once a FTF hound begins whining that they wasted their time because they weren't FTF, it moves beyond hoping for courtesy and into entitlement.

None is so blind as he who will not see. A position of "nobody is going to tell me when I have to post a find" is a self-centered, egotistical position. A haughty "entitled" one, perhaps!

Tell me how it is a "self-centered, egotistical position" to not log the minute one gets a FTF? When did it become a "self-centered, egotistical position" to log when a caching day is done and one is at home, even if one gets a FTF? When did it become a "self-centered, egotistical position" to not placate people?

Using your logic, anyone who gets a FTF and doesn't log immediately (regardless if they own a smart phone or not) is just a bad, bad person. We all know that's false, so where does that leave us?

It leaves us with the knowledge that some people think that we must hold some people's hands in this game and not let them experience it as it was before the advent of technology. You win some you lose some. That's life.

We're not as far apart as we seem, perhaps. We may *both* be making out the other's position as more extreme than it is. What I personally do with logging is this - I log as soon as practical. If there's a FTF situation, more than once I logged "found, more later," & posted more later.

The only thing I have a problem with if someone digs in their heels and says, "I'll post whenever I #$%*! feel like." You may not be saying that, but your viewpoint would be accepted by those that do feel that way.

And are there overly demanding FTF hounds? Undoubtedly. But let's not go to another extreme either.

2.9k · January 13, 2015

We're not as far apart as we seem, perhaps. We may *both* be making out the other's position as more extreme than it is. What I personally do with logging is this - I log as soon as practical. If there's a FTF situation, more than once I logged "found, more later," & posted more later.

You're right...it does seem that way. I am all about practical logging. I never sandbag a log, especially a FTF. That said, I do not log in the field. Never have, never will...I guess that old-school part of me will never die.

1.4k · January 13, 2015

I play the FTF game. I enjoy being FTF and I even include a list of my FTF's on my profile.

However, I'm confused about this idea that it makes any difference whatsoever when people log their FTF finds.

If I get a new cache notification I'll decide whether or not to try for the FTF. If I decide to go for it I'll load up the coordinates, get into the car and drive to a parking spot near GZ and then walk to the cache. It doesn't matter in the slightest whether or not someone else logs their find, because I won't see it. I'm too busy driving the car to keep checking e-mails.

But assume that when I park the car I discover someone else has already found it. What am I going to do? Drive all the way home without looking? Of course not, I'm going to walk to GZ and hunt for the cache.

So, please log your finds whenever it is convenient to you. Whether or not you have already logged the find when I get to GZ doesn't matter in the slightest. If I'm FTF then I'm FTF. If not, not. Everything else is irrelevant.

4.5k · January 13, 2015

I guess there are some people out there who demand that FTFers log immediately, no matter what. I don't believe that many of us fall into this category. Most, like me, simply want to be shown some respect. We need to understand that we won't get every FTF but we should realize that this is part of the fun of the little side game. Logging FTFs as soon as practical should be just fine. On the otherhand, sandbagging just to stir up drama shows that a person has little respect for their fellow cachers.

Myself, i rarely log anything out in the field. Allthough i do use some of the features of my smart phone, it's mainly for making and receiving calls. I don't text and i seldom do any typing on it. Having a new phone doesn't excite me like it does so many out there these days. Heck, mine is over 4 years old. Whether i have the phone with me or not, my FTF log will not usually come in immediately. I will log it as soon as i can but it will have to wait until i get the chance to type it in on a regular keyboard. This is not sandbagging and i would hope that anyone affected would understand this.

I hate to say it but i am almost starting to think that we need two different websites. One for those of us who enjoy geocaching the way it used to be. You know, using a gpsr to find creatively hidden caches in nice locations and who aren't expected to log from their phones. The other site would be for those who primarily use their phones to log anything and everything.

4.6k · January 13, 2015

I hate to say it but i am almost starting to think that we need two different websites. One for those of us who enjoy geocaching the way it used to be. You know, using a gpsr to find creatively hidden caches in nice locations and who aren't expected to log from their phones. The other site would be for those who primarily use their phones to log anything and everything.

That does sound a little bit like taking a sledgehammer to crack walnut. :unsure:

7.5k · January 13, 2015

I guess there are some people out there who demand that FTFers log immediately, no matter what. I don't believe that many of us fall into this category. Most, like me, simply want to be shown some respect. We need to understand that we won't get every FTF but we should realize that this is part of the fun of the little side game. Logging FTFs as soon as practical should be just fine. On the otherhand, sandbagging just to stir up drama shows that a person has little respect for their fellow cachers.

Myself, i rarely log anything out in the field. Allthough i do use some of the features of my smart phone, it's mainly for making and receiving calls. I don't text and i seldom do any typing on it. Having a new phone doesn't excite me like it does so many out there these days. Heck, mine is over 4 years old. Whether i have the phone with me or not, my FTF log will not usually come in immediately. I will log it as soon as i can but it will have to wait until i get the chance to type it in on a regular keyboard. This is not sandbagging and i would hope that anyone affected would understand this.

I think you've captured the essence of the argument. Amongst FTFers playing the FTF game, logging asap would seem the fair thing to do. Sandbagging would be disrespectful. Those who don't play the side game would not be expected to log in the field but it's nice if they do and not considered rude or disrespectful if the don't.

I hate to say it but i am almost starting to think that we need two different websites. One for those of us who enjoy geocaching the way it used to be. You know, using a gpsr to find creatively hidden caches in nice locations and who aren't expected to log from their phones. The other site would be for those who primarily use their phones to log anything and everything.

Or maybe 2 sites - one for the competitive folks who are more into the stats of geocaching, where the smiley is a score. One for the people who enjoy a more leisurely game. Where the smiley is their way to record and keep a record of their finds. For the geocacher who prefers a slower paced game which may include logging in at their computer when they have a proper keyboard and more time to reflect.

Edited January 13, 2015 by L0ne.R

4.6k · January 13, 2015

I think you've captured the essence of the argument. Amongst FTFers playing the FTF game, logging asap would seem the fair thing to do. Sandbagging would be disrespectful. Those who don't play the side game would not be expected to log in the field but it's nice if they do and not considered rude or disrespectful.

We have a winner

4.5k · January 13, 2015

I hate to say it but i am almost starting to think that we need two different websites. One for those of us who enjoy geocaching the way it used to be. You know, using a gpsr to find creatively hidden caches in nice locations and who aren't expected to log from their phones. The other site would be for those who primarily use their phones to log anything and everything.

That does sound a little bit like taking a sledgehammer to crack walnut.

Yep, a bit extreme at this point. But as someone above stated, phones have permeated our hobby and has definitely had an impact on the way people play.

4.6k · January 13, 2015

I hate to say it but i am almost starting to think that we need two different websites. One for those of us who enjoy geocaching the way it used to be. You know, using a gpsr to find creatively hidden caches in nice locations and who aren't expected to log from their phones. The other site would be for those who primarily use their phones to log anything and everything.

That does sound a little bit like taking a sledgehammer to crack walnut.

Yep, a bit extreme at this point. But as someone above stated, phones have permeated our hobby and has definitely had an impact on the way people play.

Yes - I would agree that they have - in some ways to the benefit of the game and in other ways to its detriment.

I like to think that as a cacher with both smartphone and 'traditional' handheld GPSr I am able to combine the best aspects of 'old-style' and 'new-style' caching in the way I hide and find caches.

The idea of splitting the sites in two is an interesting one though. I wonder if each of those sites, free of the 'caching style shackles' of the current single site, would become even more polarised over time - or if they would end up with more similarities than differences?

2.9k · January 13, 2015

Expecting anyone to log in the field reeks of entitlement. Let people log as they see fit.

4.6k · January 13, 2015

Expecting anyone to log in the field reeks of entitlement.

I think that's complete rubbish

2.9k · January 13, 2015

Expecting anyone to log in the field reeks of entitlement.

I think that's complete rubbish

How so? Since when did geocaching become a sport where one must log finds as they happen?

4.6k · January 13, 2015

Expecting anyone to log in the field reeks of entitlement.

I think that's complete rubbish

How so? Since when did geocaching become a sport where one must log finds as they happen?

It didn't.

That doesn't render your original viewpoint any more valid.

2.9k · January 13, 2015

Expecting anyone to log in the field reeks of entitlement.

I think that's complete rubbish

How so? Since when did geocaching become a sport where one must log finds as they happen?

It didn't.

That doesn't render your original viewpoint any more valid.

Explain why it isn't, then.

4.6k · January 13, 2015

Expecting anyone to log in the field reeks of entitlement.

I think that's complete rubbish

How so? Since when did geocaching become a sport where one must log finds as they happen?

It didn't.

That doesn't render your original viewpoint any more valid.

Explain why it isn't, then.

I'm a little bit busy just at the moment.

2.9k · January 13, 2015

Expecting anyone to log in the field reeks of entitlement.

I think that's complete rubbish

How so? Since when did geocaching become a sport where one must log finds as they happen?

It didn't.

That doesn't render your original viewpoint any more valid.

Explain why it isn't, then.

I'm a little bit busy just at the moment.

In other words, you have no point. If you have the time to post here, you have the time to back up your point. Thanks for admitting you you have none.

4.6k · January 13, 2015

In other words, you have no point. If you have the time to post here, you have the time to back up your point. Thanks for admitting you you have none.

Well that's where you'd be wrong see - but I won't try to interfere with that as you seem rather determined.

2.9k · January 13, 2015

In other words, you have no point. If you have the time to post here, you have the time to back up your point. Thanks for admitting you you have none.

Well that's where you'd be wrong see - but I won't try to interfere with that as you seem rather determined.

As the wise man once said, put up or shut up. You seem to have all this time to post drivel, yet can't seem to make your point. Do it or sit back and let the adults speak.

4.6k · January 13, 2015

In other words, you have no point. If you have the time to post here, you have the time to back up your point. Thanks for admitting you you have none.

Well that's where you'd be wrong see - but I won't try to interfere with that as you seem rather determined.

As the wise man once said, put up or shut up. You seem to have all this time to post drivel, yet can't seem to make your point. Do it or sit back and let the adults speak.

From your response it seems to me that you feel entitled to full explanation of my point of view, after providing you own completely devoid of qualification of any kind? The need to be placated in some way?

I would say that expressing this viewpoint and the negative feelings you seem to have about it might classify you, by your own earlier definition as a whiner - but I think the aggression in your post goes somewhat beyond that.

I expect the mods will be along to delete my post shortly, before things get completely ridiculous. I'm fine with that.

2.9k · January 13, 2015

Tell us how you really feel. I have at least supported my position. You, on the other hand, have done nothing but disagree without any form of rebuttal. Try again.

All this angst and no point made.

6.1k · January 13, 2015

Expecting field logging is complete rubbish. There have been more than a few temper tantrums thrown when someone discovers they are 2nd to find on a cache that someone logged 2 hours ago. If you can't handle being second, then you shouldn't bother to look for it.

3.7k · January 13, 2015

I think folks need to get past the hyperbole here. Most folks do not EXPECT immediate, on-site logging. Most folks do not intentionally hold off on logging just to mess with others. Most folks don't feel "entitled" and there is no need for two separate sites (though I still wouldn't mind them breaking out challenges to their own site...but that's an entirely different discussion). In the real world (i.e., NOT the forums), folks don't usually get so bent out of shape about all of this stuff. Let's keep a little perspective here...

4.6k · January 13, 2015

If you can't handle being second, then you shouldn't bother to look for it.

Completely agree

There have been more than a few temper tantrums thrown when someone discovers they are 2nd to find on a cache that someone logged 2 hours ago.

I'll have to take your word for that, having never experienced it myself.

Expecting field logging is complete rubbish.

It's not complete rubbish and under certain circumstances there's a good chance such expectations will be consistently met.

I think it would be fairer to say that there are circumstances where expecting field logging is unrealistic, ambitious even.

4.6k · January 13, 2015

I think folks need to get past the hyperbole here. Most folks do not EXPECT immediate, on-site logging. Most folks do not intentionally hold off on logging just to mess with others. Most folks don't feel "entitled" and there is no need for two separate sites (though I still wouldn't mind them breaking out challenges to their own site...but that's an entirely different discussion). In the real world (i.e., NOT the forums), folks don't usually get so bent out of shape about all of this stuff. Let's keep a little perspective here...

I'd like to vote this my post of the day - a healthy injection of reality

4.6k · January 13, 2015

Tell us how you really feel. I have at least supported my position. You, on the other hand, have done nothing but disagree without any form of rebuttal. Try again.

All this angst and no point made.

Expecting anyone to log in the field reeks of entitlement.

Sorry - I don't see how you've supported this position here.

2.9k · January 13, 2015

It's not complete rubbish and under certain circumstances there's a good chance such expectations will be consistently met.

How is it not complete rubbish? Are people expected now to log as soon as they make a find? That is complete rubbish.

6.1k · January 13, 2015

If you can't handle being second, then you shouldn't bother to look for it.

Completely agree

There have been more than a few temper tantrums thrown when someone discovers they are 2nd to find on a cache that someone logged 2 hours ago.

I'll have to take your word for that, having never experienced it myself.

Expecting field logging is complete rubbish.

It's not complete rubbish and under certain circumstances there's a good chance such expectations will be consistently met.

I think it would be fairer to say that there are circumstances where expecting field logging is unrealistic, ambitious even.

I'd point you to the logs of the tantrums, but that would likely trigger more. Field logging should always be thought of as a courtesy, not an expectation. Not everyone has a smartphone, or cell reception if they do have one. Id like to think this game is evolving, not devolving to the level of 10 year olds. Antics such a tearing off the top of a log sheet, or throwing a fit because someone didn't log it right away, makes me wonder.

Edited January 13, 2015 by 4wheelin_fool

1.2k · January 13, 2015

My policy has always been not to log it until I log it. Seems to work okay. :rolleyes:

5.7k · January 13, 2015

FTF's for me have always caused problems. I try and avoid being FTF. Geocaching is silly enough without a side game. :anitongue:

4.6k · January 13, 2015

Field logging should always be thought of as a courtesy, not an expectation. Not everyone has a smartphone, or cell reception if they do have one. Id like to think this game is evolving, not devolving to the level of 10 year olds. Antics such a tearing off the top of a log sheet, or throwing a fit because someone didn't log it right away, makes me wonder.

Almost completely agree

In my experience, those in my local area who commonly race out for FTF expect the courtesy of their fellow FTF fans in the form of a note at their earlest convenience post FTF.

Generally speaking that's exactly what happens and it's a win-win for all

And of course we all understand and accept that there are circumstances under which said FTF note is either not possible or not practical.

4.6k · January 13, 2015

It's not complete rubbish and under certain circumstances there's a good chance such expectations will be consistently met.

How is it not complete rubbish? Are people expected now to log as soon as they make a find? That is complete rubbish.

I refer you to post #144

2.9k · January 13, 2015

It's not complete rubbish and under certain circumstances there's a good chance such expectations will be consistently met.

How is it not complete rubbish? Are people expected now to log as soon as they make a find? That is complete rubbish.

I refer you to post #144

I agree that is the earliest convenient time a log is made then it is cool, be it when a cacher gets home or otherwise gets to it after the day's tasks are done. Expecting anything immediate is another story.

4.6k · January 13, 2015

It's not complete rubbish and under certain circumstances there's a good chance such expectations will be consistently met.

How is it not complete rubbish? Are people expected now to log as soon as they make a find? That is complete rubbish.

I refer you to post #144

I agree that is the earliest convenient time a log is made then it is cool, be it when a cacher gets home or otherwise gets to it after the day's tasks are done. Expecting anything immediate is another story.

Then I'm genuninely pleased that we seem to have moved toward some basis of agreement

There may be FTF fans who get bent out of shape about absolutely anyone not posting a field note when they are FTF a cache - but I'm not one of them.

As stated earlier - if it's one of the regular 'sharks' then we do expect such a note and almost without exception we all seem to stick to that unwritten rule out of courtesy to each other.

Expecting others who have the ability to post a field note to do so I don't consider unreasonable - but I agree that to expect everyone to do so is unrealistic - and certainly no reason for the 'failed shark' to be rude or agressive about it.

Hopefully that clarifies my viewpoint a little

2.9k · January 13, 2015

Expecting others who have the ability to post a field note to do so I don't consider unreasonable

We disagree again. It doesn't matter if you can or not...no one should have to be expected to do so.

4.6k · January 13, 2015

Expecting others who have the ability to post a field note to do so I don't consider unreasonable

We disagree again. It doesn't matter if you can or not...no one should have to be expected to do so.

Oh well. We diagree again. C'est la vie

14k · January 13, 2015

Expecting field logging is complete rubbish. There have been more than a few temper tantrums thrown when someone discovers they are 2nd to find on a cache that someone logged 2 hours ago. If you can't handle being second, then you shouldn't bother to look for it.

One can expect field logging but they're likely going to be disappointed.

The person finding the cache may not have a smart phone.

The person finding the cache may have a smart phone but no data access. That could be because they are in an area with no cellular coverage or caching in an area outside their data roaming zone and has intentionally turned off data to avoid astronomical data charges.

The person finding the cache might have physical impairments that make difficult to type on a small keyboard

There are lots of legitimate reasons why field logging might be impractical.

4.5k · January 14, 2015

Expecting others who have the ability to post a field note to do so I don't consider unreasonable

We disagree again. It doesn't matter if you can or not...no one should have to be expected to do so.

+1

::Public Service Announcement::

I have a smart phone that i use for making and receiving calls, and at times, for looking up something on the web. Please, please, don't go to expecting me to use it for logging finds, dnfs, or notes from the field. Thank you for your attention.

I have seen the future ...

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