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jfpinell

Replacing "abandoned" caches legal?

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OK maybe this makes more sense :)

I just read several notes and gotten a couple private notes about ones that might be no longer there because of how long they've been gone. If an original owner doesn't make any attempt to do maintenance if it's reported missing after several weeks or several months, is it OK for someone else to put one in it's place?

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Easy answer in the Groundspeak Help Center: http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=427

--You have read through them, have you not?--

 

What you suggest is called a "Throwdown".

 

It's called a throwdown because the person placing the "new" cache cannot find the original. Because they cannot find it they are ASSUMING that it is gone.

 

I call it "assuming" because they did not find it, therefore they do not know where it really is. It could be missing, but it may not be missing. They simply don't know because they don't know where it was placed, they don't know where it was placed because they couldn't find it. Repetitive enough?

 

The proper thing to do is to log a DNF and let somebody who HAS found it (previously) determine that it is missing. Then, file a Needs Maintenance log and eventually a Needs Archived log.

Edited by Gitchee-Gummee

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Easy answer in the Groundspeak Help Center: http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=427

--You have read through them, have you not?--

 

What you suggest is called a "Throwdown".

 

It's called a throwdown because the person placing the "new" cache cannot find the original. Because they cannot find it they are ASSUMING that it is gone.

 

I call it "assuming" because they did not find it, therefore they do not know where it really is. It could be missing, but it may not be missing. They simply don't know because they don't know where it was placed, they don't know where it was placed because they couldn't find it. Repetitive enough?

 

The proper thing to do is to log a DNF and let somebody who HAS found it (previously) determine that it is missing. Then, file a Needs Maintenance log and eventually a Needs Archived log.

I just read today (although I'm not sure how old it was. It caught my eye though) about someone who was concerned about "why archive these and lose some of the enjoyment out there?" (or words to that effect). They asked, and I can see their point (which is what caused me to start this) wouldn't it be better to keep it going instead of losing one? But that's when the question of "How long is sufficient enough to assume reasonably that it's gone for good?" came to mind. No one wants to see these go, if it can be helped or fixed do they?

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Easy answer in the Groundspeak Help Center: http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=427

--You have read through them, have you not?--

 

What you suggest is called a "Throwdown".

 

It's called a throwdown because the person placing the "new" cache cannot find the original. Because they cannot find it they are ASSUMING that it is gone.

 

I call it "assuming" because they did not find it, therefore they do not know where it really is. It could be missing, but it may not be missing. They simply don't know because they don't know where it was placed, they don't know where it was placed because they couldn't find it. Repetitive enough?

 

The proper thing to do is to log a DNF and let somebody who HAS found it (previously) determine that it is missing. Then, file a Needs Maintenance log and eventually a Needs Archived log.

I just read today (although I'm not sure how old it was. It caught my eye though) about someone who was concerned about "why archive these and lose some of the enjoyment out there?" (or words to that effect). They asked, and I can see their point (which is what caused me to start this) wouldn't it be better to keep it going instead of losing one? But that's when the question of "How long is sufficient enough to assume reasonably that it's gone for good?" came to mind. No one wants to see these go, if it can be helped or fixed do they?

 

No, not your toy. Leave abandon caches alone, let them die.

 

If the location is truly that wonderful place a cache there after the cache has been archived and AFTER YOU have found some caches.

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No, not your toy. Leave abandon caches alone, let them die.

 

If the location is truly that wonderful place a cache there after the cache has been archived and AFTER YOU have found some caches.

 

So you're saying the proper/best way to handle this situation is AFTER so many no find listings and it gets thrown in the archive area, THEN it's OK? There's one at Legion Park also in Sherwood that I've been told hasn't been found or fixed in about a year. That's another one I was referring to.

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Is there some sort of cache shortage that we have to keep all the junk caches going? If they're gone and the owner is MIA, let them go. Replacing the container is an irresponsible move and all it really does is add more trash to the location.

 

Then again, if you can't get within miles of GZ anyway, how do you plan on replacing the caches?

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Once it's been archived, you can place your own cache there and list it yourself.

 

The problem with maintaining a cache that isn't your own is that you cannot update the cache listing - post an Owners Maintenance log to indicate all is well, disable it if in future you confirm there's a problem and need to temporarily disable the listing until you fix it, delete bogus logs, etc. Instead, you've got a cache that is only being maintained by the good will of you and maybe other cachers, but the cache listing is all messed up.

 

No - better to let the cache be archived, and then you can place your own there. Then you can update the cache listing as needed yourself.

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Who's "GZ"?

The ones I mention are local to me. Not hard to get to at all.

Maybe put a new one there but in DIFFERENT SPOT....? That way you won't be intruding.

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So you're saying the proper/best way to handle this situation is AFTER so many no find listings and it gets thrown in the archive area, THEN it's OK? There's one at Legion Park also in Sherwood that I've been told hasn't been found or fixed in about a year. That's another one I was referring to.

 

You've been told? Here's an idea. Get to GZ, look for the cache yourself. Find it. Or not. Log your find or DNF and move on with your life. Stop obsessing about one cache in the world. There are millions of others to seek out.

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Once it's been archived, you can place your own cache there and list it yourself.

 

The problem with maintaining a cache that isn't your own is that you cannot update the cache listing - post an Owners Maintenance log to indicate all is well, disable it if in future you confirm there's a problem and need to temporarily disable the listing until you fix it, delete bogus logs, etc. Instead, you've got a cache that is only being maintained by the good will of you and maybe other cachers, but the cache listing is all messed up.

 

No - better to let the cache be archived, and then you can place your own there. Then you can update the cache listing as needed yourself.

Don't do anything until & unless you see it in the archive file in other words...? See now THAT'S what I've been wondering. Thanks! :)

It takes some people longer to piece things together and to hear it from several angles before it "clicks". -Something that, in retrospect, many do not seem to realize.

Edited by jfpinell

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Is this 'be rude to noobs' day? I don't think that I got the email.

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Is this 'be rude to noobs' day? I don't think that I got the email.

 

You really need to do your research first before slamming the people who have been trying to help this person in many different threads.

 

There's a lot of history involved with this "noob"/troll. Head-shaking, exapserating.....

 

 

B.

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How hard is it to simply shake ones head and not post the rude reply?

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Is this 'be rude to noobs' day? I don't think that I got the email.

 

You really need to do your research first before slamming the people who have been trying to help this person in many different threads.

 

There's a lot of history involved with this "noob"/troll. Head-shaking, exapserating.....

 

 

B.

I don't believe standard etiquette should be waived in this particular sub-forum under any circumstances, but maybe you could ask the Mods to move the topic to a section of the Forum that doesn't have such stringent requirements on behavior ;)

 

Back OT: The sport depends on active cache owners. The idea of replacing abandoned caches is contrary to that premise.

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Easy answer in the Groundspeak Help Center: http://support.Groun...=kb.page&id=427

--You have read through them, have you not?--

 

What you suggest is called a "Throwdown".

 

It's called a throwdown because the person placing the "new" cache cannot find the original. Because they cannot find it they are ASSUMING that it is gone.

 

I call it "assuming" because they did not find it, therefore they do not know where it really is. It could be missing, but it may not be missing. They simply don't know because they don't know where it was placed, they don't know where it was placed because they couldn't find it. Repetitive enough?

 

The proper thing to do is to log a DNF and let somebody who HAS found it (previously) determine that it is missing. Then, file a Needs Maintenance log and eventually a Needs Archived log.

I just read today (although I'm not sure how old it was. It caught my eye though) about someone who was concerned about "why archive these and lose some of the enjoyment out there?" (or words to that effect). They asked, and I can see their point (which is what caused me to start this) wouldn't it be better to keep it going instead of losing one? But that's when the question of "How long is sufficient enough to assume reasonably that it's gone for good?" came to mind. No one wants to see these go, if it can be helped or fixed do they?

 

No, not your toy. Leave abandon caches alone, let them die.

 

If the location is truly that wonderful place a cache there after the cache has been archived and AFTER YOU have found some caches.

 

CITO. Don't replace, but pick up the trash left behind. Legal abandoned property definitions are available online for anybody that has doubt. Don't add a throwdown. Just clean up the mess if you can.

Edited by knowschad

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OK maybe this makes more sense :)

I just read several notes and gotten a couple private notes about ones that might be no longer there because of how long they've been gone. If an original owner doesn't make any attempt to do maintenance if it's reported missing after several weeks or several months, is it OK for someone else to put one in it's place?

 

Why are you even asking???

 

Your "toy" never even gets you to the cache-thingy. First use yor "toy" to get to the thing-a-majig, then worry about replacing the maybe-missing doohickey.

 

ANYWHO, you sure learned how to start threads, huh?! Trying to set a record?

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I don't want to sound harsh, but do the moderators have a policy about trolling in the forums? It's rather obvious by this point. unsure.gif

 

Also I wan't to point out that the OP's icon is from the group "Anonymous"

 

P.S. Don't put a throwdown...on a cache that you've been unable to get to GZ of...that hasn't had a recent DNF log...whose owner is still active.ph34r.gif

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Who's "GZ"?

The arch-enemy of "JR" and best friend of "Roman!"

 

10-4, over and out.

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Now, I hope there's nothing wrong with having 2 posts together of your own on different issues.

Personally I think it's sad to say the least how people attempt to cut down other people or the way they talk or discuss things. I've already sent 1 person out here an explanation. I don't feel it's necessary to tell a hundred people the same thing. Sad how people judge so quick without thinking that maybe there's more to the way someone talks or discusses things without knowing them -which ahhh, can be rather hard to do on-line only.

Unless someone is blatantly being rude or using constant 4-letter language or constantly intentionally clogging things up with 200 posts an hour, if you will, personally, I wouldn't be so quick to label them a troll or cut on their way of talking.

Anywho, seeing as how I have several opinions on this thread I'm guessing this is 1 of those "use your own best judgment" things. I guess if something's archived, or the owner doesn't respond to several messages asking if they still maintain it (such as a log sheet being full and not replaced in months) no one would care.

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Anywho, seeing as how I have several opinions on this thread I'm guessing this is 1 of those "use your own best judgment" things. I guess if something's archived, or the owner doesn't respond to several messages asking if they still maintain it (such as a log sheet being full and not replaced in months) no one would care.

I'm not sure where you got that anyone said you COULD replace a missing cache. Someone even posted the guideline that officially says you should not do it.

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Anywho, seeing as how I have several opinions on this thread I'm guessing this is 1 of those "use your own best judgment" things. I guess if something's archived, or the owner doesn't respond to several messages asking if they still maintain it (such as a log sheet being full and not replaced in months) no one would care.

I'm not sure where you got that anyone said you COULD replace a missing cache. Someone even posted the guideline that officially says you should not do it.

Yeah but then at least 1 other said that if it's been archived it's no longer in play so I figured.....

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The arch-enemy of "JR" and best friend of "Roman!"

 

10-4, over and out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN4XpIbEY-Y

 

Smokey in the bushes

Smokey in the trees

But smokey can't catch us-

'cause we got C.B's!

Tip: the first quote should not have one of these thingies: "/".

 

And just for context, my quote at the start was in response to the question, "Who's GZ?"

Edited by wmpastor

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Yeah but then at least 1 other said that if it's been archived it's no longer in play so I figured.....
Well, yes. If the abandoned cache is archived, then it's gone. At that point, if you replace it and submit a new listing, then it isn't a throwdown. If you replace it and submit a new listing, then it's a new cache. Even if it's at the same location as the archived cache, yours would be a new cache. The new cache has an owner: you.

 

That's very different from throwdowns that prolong the inevitable archival of an abandoned cache that no longer has an active owner.

 

Of course, it's a good idea to find a few (and to log those finds online) before you try hiding one. But that's a separate issue.

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Well, I recently got the "certainly. I don't care. Go for it if you want." in not so many words from the previous owner. So I stuffed one in that vicinity a bit ago. :)

After this afternoon I hope it's waterproof enough!

Edited by jfpinell

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Well, I recently got the "certainly. I don't care. Go for it if you want." in not so many words from the previous owner. So I stuffed one in that vicinity a bit ago. :)

After this afternoon I hope it's waterproof enough!

 

Congratulations on your first Hide:

 

50% need not apply

 

That was a quick First to Find (aka FTF) as well :)

 

For future reference, there's usually no reason to ask the previous cache owner of the nearby cache if it's OK to hide one near their Archived Listing. It's understood amongst most of the Community that it's first come first served, and if you relinquish a sport due to Archiving a cache, it's pretty much up for grabs.

 

Good luck with your future Hides and Finds!

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HUH??!! FOUND ALREADY?? I thought it said it took days to even get published. How could anyone know about it so quick?

I figured that 50% thing would be a cute hint at it's location -and seeing how many people would cache on to it! (bad joke intended -Wocka! Wocka!)

But given the mixed opinions on my asking, and given what else I read on here somewhere, I thought it best to make sure, among other things there weren't too many in 1 area or to have someone feel like someone else is "intruding".

Edited by jfpinell

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HUH??!! FOUND ALREADY?? I thought it said it took days to even get published. How could anyone know about it so quick?

I figured that 50% thing would be a cute hint at it's location -and seeing how many people would cache on to it! (bad joke intended -Wocka! Wocka!)

But given the mixed opinions on my asking, and

given what else I read on here somewhere, I thought it best to make sure, among other things there weren't too many in 1 area or to have someone feel like someone else is "intruding".

 

Link for reference:

 

Instant Notification

 

Or at least, that's usually the way most people find out about them quickly. As far as the Reviewing side of things go, I think you got kind of lucky and your Local Reviewer just happened to be online or at home when you submitted your Listing. I wouldn't count on that all the time :)

Edited by Touchstone

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Link for reference:

 

Instant Notification

 

Or at least, that's usually the way most people find out about them quickly. As far as the Reviewing side of things go, I think you got kind of lucky and your Local Reviewer just happened to be online or at home when you submitted your Listing. I wouldn't count on that all the time :)

GRRRR! What am I doing wrong again trying to partial quote a message?

I don't wanna' risk starting another topic although it doesn't entirely fit here :/ but I've always wondered....if there are so many people doing this, why is it I never see anyone? (How come I didn't see you looking for any there? Or ever see anyone in any of the other spots I've been in? Know what I mean?)

Edited by jfpinell

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GRRRR! What am I doing wrong again trying to partial quote a message?

I don't wanna' risk starting another topic although it doesn't entirely fit here :/ but I've always wondered....if there are so many people doing this, why is it I never see anyone? (How come I didn't see you looking for any there? Or ever see anyone in any of the other spots I've been in? Know what I mean?

 

You just need to remove the / from in front of the first quote in brackets. No big deal.

 

It's kind of unusual that I actually run into other Geocachers when I'm out looking for caches, unless I'm going to an Event/CITO that same day, and finding some nearby ones.

 

I actually live over 1,000 miles from your cache, so it's kind of unlikely I'll get to it anytime soon :) Although one of my all time favorite caches is not too far from you:

 

Covert Cache

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I don't wanna' risk starting another topic although it doesn't entirely fit here :/ but I've always wondered....if there are so many people doing this, why is it I never see anyone? (How come I didn't see you looking for any there? Or ever see anyone in any of the other spots I've been in? Know what I mean?)

 

I don't think it helps the odds if you've never found a cache.unsure.gif

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You just need to remove the / from in front of the first quote in brackets. No big deal.

 

It's kind of unusual that I actually run into other Geocachers when I'm out looking for caches, unless I'm going to an Event/CITO that same day, and finding some nearby ones.

 

I actually live over 1,000 miles from your cache, so it's kind of unlikely I'll get to it anytime soon :) Although one of my all time favorite caches is not too far from you:

 

Covert Cache

Okaaaaaaay, now I AM lost :/ how do you find these things so far away without going and getting them to sign? Another thing I haven't yet picked up?

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I don't think it helps the odds if you've never found a cache.unsure.gif

But how does finding more increase the odds there'll be someone at the same spot you are at the same time? :/

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You just need to remove the / from in front of the first quote in brackets. No big deal.

 

It's kind of unusual that I actually run into other Geocachers when I'm out looking for caches, unless I'm going to an Event/CITO that same day, and finding some nearby ones.

 

I actually live over 1,000 miles from your cache, so it's kind of unlikely I'll get to it anytime soon :) Although one of my all time favorite caches is not too far from you:

 

Covert Cache

Okaaaaaaay, now I AM lost :/ how do you find these things so far away without going and getting them to sign? Another thing I haven't yet picked up?

 

I found that cache 4 years ago, so yes, I've actually been to that location and signed the logbook. I've found caches in several State (although not all 50 yet), and generally when I'm traveling on business or vacation.

 

Here's a Help Center Article that explains the general etiquette regarding Logging a Find on a Listing page:

 

How do I log my first geocache Find

 

A short paragraph at the bottom of that page explains what is regarded as generally acceptable and what is frowned upon(i.e. "couch logging")

 

Hope that helps.

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I don't think it helps the odds if you've never found a cache.unsure.gif

But how does finding more increase the odds there'll be someone at the same spot you are at the same time? :/

 

Serious answer, serious answer, serious answer...dry.gif

 

 

I did not mean finding more, I was making a pseudo-joke that one would actually have to be out in the field to find another person in the field...

Anyway, If you are out more, there is a greater chance that you are overlapping with someone else time in the same spot. (If that makes sense to you)

Edited by ADKer

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You just need to remove the / from in front of the first quote in brackets. No big deal.

 

It's kind of unusual that I actually run into other Geocachers when I'm out looking for caches, unless I'm going to an Event/CITO that same day, and finding some nearby ones.

 

I actually live over 1,000 miles from your cache, so it's kind of unlikely I'll get to it anytime soon :) Although one of my all time favorite caches is not too far from you:

 

Covert Cache

Okaaaaaaay, now I AM lost :/ how do you find these things so far away without going and getting them to sign? Another thing I haven't yet picked up?

 

Okay, that's it, I'm done. It's becoming ever increasingly obvious that we are being trolled. No one can be this clueless And despite one of my geocaches being troll themed, I certainly shall not be a victim of trolling. I do apologize if that I am sounding rude, and my dearest condolences to the OP if he is being honest, but this is way to much for me. There are many others here who seem rather willing to help, and I'm sure they'll do an excellent job (if need be).

~~ Auf Wiedersehen

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Okay, that's it, I'm done. It's becoming ever increasingly obvious that we are being trolled. No one can be this clueless And despite one of my geocaches being troll themed, I certainly shall not be a victim of trolling. I do apologize if that I am sounding rude, and my dearest condolences to the OP if he is being honest, but this is way to much for me. There are many others here who seem rather willing to help, and I'm sure they'll do an excellent job (if need be).

~~ Auf Wiedersehen

Shoo then. :rolleyes: I don't mean to sound off key, but to put it bluntly, it's people like you who don't do people with disabilities any good in this world. I know a couple people a lot worse than me when it comes to not being able to process information right and who take longer to understand things. They got shoved in the corner in school and weren't given the opportunity to learn things just because their teachers said "the heck with them. I don't care to take the time." or words to that effect. Needless to say it's a lot harder for these people as adults when society continues to push them away! I'm finally picking some of this stuff up. (You think it's annoying to explain this a dozen times think about how people like ME feel having to deal with issues like this on a daily basis.)

I say this not only for me here but in general in this Country. Hopefully someday people will wake up to this kind of thing and be more accepting.

I don't mean to run this off course but I couldn't not use this to hopefully make more people aware of this kind of thing for others in the same -or worse- boat than me. At least I can swim if the boat sinks. Many can't even do that. (To put it in analytical terms.)

I can't thank those that ARE as helpful as they have been though! I think even 1 person out here changed their mind and decided to let me fill them in. :)

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Shoo then. :rolleyes: I don't mean to sound off key, but to put it bluntly, it's people like you who don't do people with disabilities any good in this world. I know a couple people a lot worse than me when it comes to not being able to process information right and who take longer to understand things. They got shoved in the corner in school and weren't given the opportunity to learn things just because their teachers said "the heck with them. I don't care to take the time." or words to that effect. Needless to say it's a lot harder for these people as adults when society continues to push them away! I'm finally picking some of this stuff up. (You think it's annoying to explain this a dozen times think about how people like ME feel having to deal with issues like this on a daily basis.)

I say this not only for me here but in general in this Country. Hopefully someday people will wake up to this kind of thing and be more accepting.

I don't mean to run this off course but I couldn't not use this to hopefully make more people aware of this kind of thing for others in the same -or worse- boat than me. At least I can swim if the boat sinks. Many can't even do that. (To put it in analytical terms.)

I can't thank those that ARE as helpful as they have been though! I think even 1 person out here changed their mind and decided to let me fill them in. :)

 

It goes both ways you know. You sit there and razz people ("City Folk") for not knowing particular bits of information or aspects of farming. You even brag about how you always get this one girl with the rooster / egg question. Where is your accepting?

Edited by mrreet

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