free app use.

[wrangler clem]

Been using it for a couple years. Some of you "old heads" paying members. I see your frustration. But not all of us abuse the game.I have bought 4 TBs and 2 have had two come up missing. I still have one my wife has the other. We use those to log our miles. I would love to place a cache and have built many in the garage ready to go. But I haven't commited yet to finding the "perfect" hiding spot. Please don't give up on the weekend Worrier's trying to save a little money and keep the kids entertained and away from the TV. By the way we used a tank of gas this weekend traveling farther than we ever have before. Thanks to geochaching.com for bringing the family fun back together.

[etarace]

You're not one of Them. In fact, I would bet that They do not go to the forums. I haven't been around a long, long, time but I think my sentiments are shared by our Elders.

Sure, you log some "TFTC" logs. Not all of us like to pretend we are undiscovered great authors.

It isn't the relative new-ness. It isn't the short logs (so much ... if the CO did something amazing I hope you tell him so). It isn't even the phone use.

It's the attitude. It's the disposable accounts with disposable attitudes towards the caches and the game.

It's the offensive PlayerNames and the Found it! logs that make it obvious that they did not find it. It's the trashing of nature in the search. It's the practice of trading-down. It's the trashing of "game pieces" since people have no respect for others, property, or themselves.

I like to hike with my dog.

You like to go out with your family.

We are not Those People.

[+T.D.M.22]

It's not that all users who have the free app and a basic membership are bad, it's that the majority of those who are bad fall into that category. That's a great thing about geocaching- you never have to hide a cache, or trade swag. You can do it for free, with the app. Or you can have a 500 cache power trail, and 50 other caches, own a $600 GPS make your own coins. Literally spend as much or as little as you want. But you have to admit, most people who spend a couple hundred or more to do this are more likely to understand the rules, and play nice. I mean what kid will spend $300 so he can swear and be a douche on the internet?

 

But if you can do it for the cost of gas, and phone, then by all means keep it up. This is honestly one of the cheapest hobbies there is. And doing it with your family, well that's worth any price isn't it? Keep it up,!and keep showing that not all the intro app users are bad, keep setting a good example.

[Mr.Yuck]

You're not one of Them. In fact, I would bet that They do not go to the forums. I haven't been around a long, long, time but I think my sentiments are shared by our Elders.

Sure, you log some "TFTC" logs. Not all of us like to pretend we are undiscovered great authors.

It isn't the relative new-ness. It isn't the short logs (so much ... if the CO did something amazing I hope you tell him so). It isn't even the phone use.

It's the attitude. It's the disposable accounts with disposable attitudes towards the caches and the game.

It's the offensive PlayerNames and the Found it! logs that make it obvious that they did not find it. It's the trashing of nature in the search. It's the practice of trading-down. It's the trashing of "game pieces" since people have no respect for others, property, or themselves.

I like to hike with my dog.

You like to go out with your family.

We are not Those People.

 

I agree with everything you say, but at the end of the day, they have dropped SEVERAL lame "Tftc" logs on people. Which, by the way, I would have never noticed if etarace didn't bring it up. Dropping Tftc logs on caches puts you in "those people" status with me, sorry to say.

 

The whole point is using the free app? Has Groundspeak even had the free app for "a couple years"? Or are you using a third party app?

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Or are you using a third party app?

Good point. It helps to know what specific app the OP is speaking of. There are many paid and many free apps out there.

 

The OP does not appear to be using the Intro-app.

Has like 14 string cache finds and other long strings in a single day -- the Intro-app allows 3/day.

Has finds D/T ratings that far exceed the level of those presented by the Intro-app (3.5/4).

 

@ wrangler clem --

The app "bashing" you have noticed is not directed at all "free" apps. Simply the GS "free" Intro-app.

[Mr.Yuck]

Or are you using a third party app?

Good point. It helps to know what specific app the OP is speaking of. There are many paid and many free apps out there.

 

The OP does not appear to be using the Intro-app.

Has like 14 string cache finds and other long strings in a single day -- the Intro-app allows 3/day.

Has finds D/T ratings that far exceed the level of those presented by the Intro-app (3.5/4).

 

@ wrangler clem --

The app "bashing" you have noticed is not directed at all "free" apps. Simply the GS "free" Intro-app.

 

It's EXTREMELY unlikely wrangler clem has it, but the official Geocaching.com Windows phone app is free. But then again, there are limits to how many caches you can use it on if you're not a premium member. Don't know, no longer a windows phone user, and always been a premium member.

[+The A-Team]

There's also the possibility they're using that Android-app-that-shall-not-be-named. If that's the case, they're not caching for free, they're freeloading. There's a big difference. The former is an approved method, while the latter is unapproved, unethical, and, in the case of this app, hurts everyone else by using unnecessary bandwidth.

 

If you're using the app I'm referring to, sorry, you're one of those people who's abusing the game. You may not even realize it, because the app's creators aren't very forthcoming with the impact of their app, but you are abusing the game (or at least the website).

[+baloo&bd]

If you're using the app I'm referring to, sorry, you're one of those people who's abusing the game. You may not even realize it, because the app's creators aren't very forthcoming with the impact of their app, but you are abusing the game (or at least the website).

 

Ummm....no, not really. The app, it is generally the first that pops up in the Play store on Android, is neither "unethical" or "abusing the game". Before you jump on it, I am a PM with a paid version of the official app and use both apps regularly.

Edited June 17, 2014 by baloo&bd

[Mr.Yuck]

There's also the possibility they're using that Android-app-that-shall-not-be-named. If that's the case, they're not caching for free, they're freeloading. There's a big difference. The former is an approved method, while the latter is unapproved, unethical, and, in the case of this app, hurts everyone else by using unnecessary bandwidth.

 

If you're using the app I'm referring to, sorry, you're one of those people who's abusing the game. You may not even realize it, because the app's creators aren't very forthcoming with the impact of their app, but you are abusing the game (or at least the website).

 

Gee, I kind of like it, and used it to find a cache today. In my defense, I just decided to grab a lunch hour cache 3/4 of a mile from work on a whim.

 

EDIT: Using a chrome incognito window (no cookies stored, no history), I get the Official Intro App first, "App which shall not be named" second, and The Official $9.99 paid app third. Then all kinds of other stuff, obviously. Search results vary by Geocgraphic location though. I know this, I own a website or two.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Mr.Yuck

[+The A-Team]

The app, it is generally the first that pops up in the Play store on Android, is neither "unethical" or "abusing the game".

The developers of the app use totally unapproved methods to interface with the website. Their actions are unethical (they know full well they're freeloading, and do it anyway) and the method abuses the website (loads an entire webpage just to scrape a few pieces of data). Anyone who uses the app is (for the most part) unknowingly being a party to these actions. That it's one of the first results in the Play Store isn't helping anything. It just shows that there are a lot of people unknowingly enabling this unethical behaviour.

[Mr.Yuck]

The app, it is generally the first that pops up in the Play store on Android, is neither "unethical" or "abusing the game".

The developers of the app use totally unapproved methods to interface with the website. Their actions are unethical (they know full well they're freeloading, and do it anyway) and the method abuses the website (loads an entire webpage just to scrape a few pieces of data). Anyone who uses the app is (for the most part) unknowingly being a party to these actions. That it's one of the first results in the Play Store isn't helping anything. It just shows that there are a lot of people unknowingly enabling this unethical behaviour.

 

Boy, Groundspeak sure has some fiercely loyal customers. We're probably all going to get a warning, but what the heck. I would say it DOES load the entire webpage. I've only been an Android user for 6 weeks, but I noticed if I view a cache in it, it will show up in my recently viewed caches on the website. I'm no smartphone dev, but I'd say that's not much different than visiting the website with a mobile web browser. I wonder if the play store lists apps by the number of downloads? That's very possible. Although it would be quite disheartening to find that the free intro app was the most downloaded app.

[wrangler clem]

There's also the possibility they're using that Android-app-that-shall-not-be-named. If that's the case, they're not caching for free, they're freeloading. There's a big difference. The former is an approved method, while the latter is unapproved, unethical, and, in the case of this app, hurts everyone else by using unnecessary bandwidth.

 

If you're using the app I'm referring to, sorry, you're one of those people who's abusing the game. You may not even realize it, because the app's creators aren't very forthcoming with the impact of their app, but you are abusing the game (or at least the website).

 

Wow! I'm a freeloader. And I "abuse" the game.

[wrangler clem]

Thanks for your opinion.

[+TriciaG]

Wow! I'm a freeloader. And I "abuse" the game.

Yeah, but we're not the ones that the "Free Intro App" rants are all about, so we're OK.

[Mr.Yuck]

There's also the possibility they're using that Android-app-that-shall-not-be-named. If that's the case, they're not caching for free, they're freeloading. There's a big difference. The former is an approved method, while the latter is unapproved, unethical, and, in the case of this app, hurts everyone else by using unnecessary bandwidth.

 

If you're using the app I'm referring to, sorry, you're one of those people who's abusing the game. You may not even realize it, because the app's creators aren't very forthcoming with the impact of their app, but you are abusing the game (or at least the website).

 

Wow! I'm a freeloader. And I "abuse" the game.

 

Just to be clear, does it start with a "c" and have a colon in it?

 

Oh boy, now I'm really going to get that warning.

[wrangler clem]

Ummmm. Maybe.;-)

[wrangler clem]

Its ok. Guess I'm not one of the GS loyal ones and I will be one my merry way and won't post here any more.

[+TriciaG]

Its ok. Guess I'm not one of the GS loyal ones and I will be one my merry way and won't post here any more.

Is this in response to my post? Notice the "we" in it. If you are a "freeloader" et. al., then so am I.

[Mr.Yuck]

Its ok. Guess I'm not one of the GS loyal ones and I will be one my merry way and won't post here any more.

 

I don't want to say Mr. T has a radical opinion on this or anything, because I agree with him 99.9% of the time.

 

Well anyways, it is true that all the rants you see are aimed towards the official Groundspeak free intro app, which is available for iOS and Android. So none of the rants were directed at users of free third party apps. I am, however, of the opinion you should never drop Tftc for a cache log. Well maybe for parking lot film canisters, but I personally don't find those.

[+baloo&bd]

Its ok. Guess I'm not one of the GS loyal ones and I will be one my merry way and won't post here any more.

 

To be clear, it has been shown many times here and on other sources that it does not violate the ToU. The claim generally comes from someone not familiar with apps and/or how data scraping works.

 

A search will also turn up the original authors explanation of why the issues exist with GS over this app and the current authors have also made it clear if you edo a search.

 

So you're welcome to wear the "freeloader" badge proudly, just realize it does not apply in this particular case. I am a PM and own and use the "official" app, however the other has a few features not yet implemented in the GS app that are useful so I do use the other as well when needed.

 

Having said that, this is GS sandbox and they have made it clear in the past that they would prefer that it not be discussed here (although they do allow it), so I will drop this by responding to the OP that if it is the other app you have question with, you would be better served seeking out that apps support on Facebook or elsewhere.

 

I do find it ironic and amusing when someone takes the misplaced moral high ground, they use the moniker from a fictional TV show about escaped fugitives working outside the law.

[wrangler clem]

Sorry. I did not realize that I was doing anything wrong. I will try not to write TFTC only so much and try to write a little more in the log. I finally decided to post something and not just lurk. I was hoping for a warmer welcome:-( I was made to feel like I was stealing. If I did pay to play on GS I would have to pay for three ACCTS. I just found that the other unmentioned app works better for me. Bigger font, easier to navigate and better mapping. For my tired old eyes.I was hoping to find members close by me and find an event. I clean out wet messy caches and wipe everything down. Replace old torn ziplock baggies to protect logs. Fill up ammo boxes with loads of swag.So I don't feel like I'm a freeloader and I don't feel I abuse the game.

[HeathcliffsHarveys]

For someone who waited so long to start, I find these threads a little sad. This is suppose to be a fun hobby. YES there are people who ruin it for others but not everyone is like that.

 

TFTC logs kind of irritate me too but maybe those people don't know to write more? Honestly I don't like reading an entire book in a log but it's nice to see a little narration of the surroundings etc. I have had a lot of fun doing this hobby for free with my husband and toddler. Just the other day, I found a cache in an area that I probably would have never found before. We were on vacation in Delaware and there just happened to be caches in the area. I saw the most beautiful scenery I have ever seen.

 

I think some people think of geocaching as "treasure hunting" as in they'll find treasure like gold or something. They don't understand that the true treasure is the cache, no matter how small it is.

 

I know I only have 6 finds so far (I have to get going!) but I have loved every second of my searching.

[+baloo&bd]

Sorry. I did not realize that I was doing anything wrong. I will try not to write TFTC only so much and try to write a little more in the log. I finally decided to post something and not just lurk. I was hoping for a warmer welcome:-( I was made to feel like I was stealing. If I did pay to play on GS I would have to pay for three ACCTS. I just found that the other unmentioned app works better for me. Bigger font, easier to navigate and better mapping. For my tired old eyes.I was hoping to find members close by me and find an event. I clean out wet messy caches and wipe everything down. Replace old torn ziplock baggies to protect logs. Fill up ammo boxes with loads of swag.So I don't feel like I'm a freeloader and I don't feel I abuse the game.

 

I have more than 6 finds and own a few. While I don't always understand why someone writes a TFTC, the cache is there for other to find not for my reading pleasure. The latter is just a bonus. Heck, there are a few cachers near us who do not log at all.

 

It does not appear you are doing anything wrong, if anything, you are probably doing more right than the majority of us and not stealing by any stretch of the imagination. The percentage of actual cachers here in the forums is so small as to be insignificant, so don't give to much weight to what we say here. Every geographic area has their own "flavor" how they do things. You'll pick that up over time however I can't think based on what you have said you will need to adjust much.

 

Cache on.

[+Manville Possum]

I'm guilty of being a PM and using a free non-Groundspeak andriod app.

I'm quite new to smartphone caching, but it is so cool!

[+Pork King]

... I finally decided to post something and not just lurk. I was hoping for a warmer welcome:-( I was made to feel like I was stealing...

 

[Mr.Yuck]

 

I have more than 6 finds and own a few. While I don't always understand why someone writes a TFTC, the cache is there for other to find not for my reading pleasure. The latter is just a bonus. Heck, there are a few cachers near us who do not log at all.

 

It does not appear you are doing anything wrong, if anything, you are probably doing more right than the majority of us and not stealing by any stretch of the imagination. The percentage of actual cachers here in the forums is so small as to be insignificant, so don't give to much weight to what we say here. Every geographic area has their own "flavor" how they do things. You'll pick that up over time however I can't think based on what you have said you will need to adjust much.

 

Cache on.

 

Does that mean don't give so much weight to what myself or A-Team say, but to give it to your posts?

 

C'mon now, the majority of experienced Geocachers are not down with acronym only logs, or other thumbed out on a smartphone from the cache site favorites like "Yay" and "Found it". And there's even been some semi-official proclamations from Frog Central this month, i.e. the newsletter, or a recent post on the blog. Although I admit, they both talk about writing good logs without specifically bashing lame ones.

[+The A-Team]

To be clear, it has been shown many times here and on other sources that it does not violate the ToU. The claim generally comes from someone not familiar with apps and/or how data scraping works.

 

A search will also turn up the original authors explanation of why the issues exist with GS over this app and the current authors have also made it clear if you edo a search.

Okay, maybe things have changed recently, but the last I heard that app would download the full human-readable cache listing webpage and then extract from that the few pieces of data they desired. Such an action is the textbook definition of web scraping, which is a specific form of data scraping. Is that app still using this method, or is it using a different method now? If it's using a different method now that doesn't involve web scraping, then I offer my apologies in advance for basing my posts on out-of-date information and retract my accusations of freeloading.

 

As for the authors' explanation, I've read it several times and completely understand the quandary for both sides. It's quite a pickle, and there isn't a clear-cut way to resolve the situation.

 

I do find it ironic and amusing when someone takes the misplaced moral high ground, they use the moniker from a fictional TV show about escaped fugitives working outside the law.

Misplaced in your opinion. Based on the analysis I've seen, I don't feel my opinion is misplaced. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

As for my choice of name and avatar, those are not a reflection of my personal character. They're simply the name and associated image of my online persona. My Geocaching.com persona should not be taken as an endorsement of the action of escaping from a maximum security stockage to the Los Angeles underground and surviving as soldiers of fortune. The A-Team accepts no responsibility for the actions of anyone who chooses to engage in such an activity.