I propose a new puzzle cache icon

[+Roman!]

I know a lot of people would like a new icon for challenges, I would too, but I feel it is much more important and healthier to create an icon for puzzle caches that involve spending hours on the computer.

 

Here is my suggestion for the icon:

 

[+Roman!]

Can someone please add an "n" to the topic title?

[etarace]

ico

[nonaeroterraqueous]

That looks like a good icon for people who spend hours in front of the computer posting in forums. Sound familiar?

[+Roman!]

That looks like a good icon for people who spend hours in front of the computer posting in forums. Sound familiar?

 

Nope.

[+narcissa]

For me it would be more like:

 

 

Or...

 

[+eightwednesday]

For me it would be more like:

 

 

*snip*

 

Exactly. Though I might mildly resemble Roman's original icon... I relate more to this one.

[+wimseyguy]

On the theory that two is better than one:

[+The_Incredibles_]

OMG, I was feeling cranky until I read this thread. Now I am ROFL. Thank you.

 

My contributions.

 

For those difficulty 5s:

 

[+The_Incredibles_]

That looks like a good icon for people who spend hours in front of the computer posting in forums. Sound familiar?

 

Not just posting, but posting complaining about how puzzle caches make you spend too much time on your computer.

 

[+PeoriaBill]

I know a lot of people would like a new icon for challenges, I would too, but I feel it is much more important and healthier to create an icon for puzzle caches that involve spending hours on the computer.

 

Here is my suggestion for the icon:

 

 

So funny, thanks for the laugh!

[Cascade Reviewer]

Can someone please add an "n" to the topic title?

Iko Iko.

[etarace]

Can someone please add an "n" to the topic title?

Iko Iko.

Oh you broke it. Now my reply and wimseguy's don't look like they make sense.

At least mine is spelled correctly.

And... kind of applicable to the topic.

And a pretty fun game.

[Cascade Reviewer]

Can someone please add an "n" to the topic title?

Iko Iko.

Oh you broke it. Now my reply and wimseguy's don't look like they make sense.

At least mine is spelled correctly.

And... kind of applicable to the topic.

And a pretty fun game.

Sorry, just trying to fulfill Roman!s wishes. Ico made me think of Iko Iko, which got the song stuck in my head. And I always like sharing songs that are stuck in my head.

[etarace]

Can someone please add an "n" to the topic title?

Iko Iko.

Oh you broke it. Now my reply and wimseguy's don't look like they make sense.

At least mine is spelled correctly.

And... kind of applicable to the topic.

And a pretty fun game.

Sorry, just trying to fulfill Roman!s wishes. Ico made me think of Iko Iko, which got the song stuck in my head. And I always like sharing songs that are stuck in my head.

Mine was an old, old "console" game that I got when it was already old, over ten years ago. It is sort of a "puzzle cache" because you have to sit at the game and figure out the different things you are supposed to do in order to accomplish ... uh... the smiley at the end. Some parts were virtual T5, some D5 parts I used a PAF (I consider google PAF since my sister's BFF works for Google).

[+Roman!]

Can someone please add an "n" to the topic title?

Iko Iko.

Oh you broke it. Now my reply and wimseguy's don't look like they make sense.

At least mine is spelled correctly.

And... kind of applicable to the topic.

And a pretty fun game.

Sorry, just trying to fulfill Roman!s wishes. Ico made me think of Iko Iko, which got the song stuck in my head. And I always like sharing songs that are stuck in my head.

 

Thank you grandma.

 

Actually I was thinking of the asme doing after I posted the thread.

[Cascade Reviewer]

Can someone please add an "n" to the topic title?

Iko Iko.

Oh you broke it. Now my reply and wimseguy's don't look like they make sense.

At least mine is spelled correctly.

And... kind of applicable to the topic.

And a pretty fun game.

Sorry, just trying to fulfill Roman!s wishes. Ico made me think of Iko Iko, which got the song stuck in my head. And I always like sharing songs that are stuck in my head.

 

Thank you grandma.

 

Actually I was thinking of the asme doing after I posted the thread.

Whoa, whoa, WHOAH there. I'm not a grandma yet. Hush your mouth.

[+Roman!]

Can someone please add an "n" to the topic title?

Iko Iko.

Oh you broke it. Now my reply and wimseguy's don't look like they make sense.

At least mine is spelled correctly.

And... kind of applicable to the topic.

And a pretty fun game.

Sorry, just trying to fulfill Roman!s wishes. Ico made me think of Iko Iko, which got the song stuck in my head. And I always like sharing songs that are stuck in my head.

 

Thank you grandma.

 

Actually I was thinking of the asme doing after I posted the thread.

Whoa, whoa, WHOAH there. I'm not a grandma yet. Hush your mouth.

 

It was either that or flag boy

[Cascade Reviewer]

Can someone please add an "n" to the topic title?

Iko Iko.

Oh you broke it. Now my reply and wimseguy's don't look like they make sense.

At least mine is spelled correctly.

And... kind of applicable to the topic.

And a pretty fun game.

Sorry, just trying to fulfill Roman!s wishes. Ico made me think of Iko Iko, which got the song stuck in my head. And I always like sharing songs that are stuck in my head.

 

Thank you grandma.

 

Actually I was thinking of the asme doing after I posted the thread.

Whoa, whoa, WHOAH there. I'm not a grandma yet. Hush your mouth.

 

It was either that or flag boy

Hmmm...I'm thinking.....

[+giddeanx]

[+SwineFlew]

For me it would be more like:

 

 

Or...

 

HAHAHA... love the first one!!

[nonaeroterraqueous]

 

Based on the way people talk around here.

[+The_Incredibles_]

 

So *that's* what Roman! looks like.

[+The_Incredibles_]

[nonaeroterraqueous]

 

Actually, that might be a very good icon for puzzle caches!

[+Roman!]

 

So *that's* what Roman! looks like.

 

Sorry, I don't do puzzles.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

 

So *that's* what Roman! looks like.

 

Sorry, I don't do puzzles.

 

Is that what the man in the picture is typing?

[+Semper Questio]

 

Who hacked into my webcam!?

[+Semper Questio]

 

 

And why is this person sitting in a Webber grill?

[+TopShelfRob]

I keep seeing this forum topic (or variations of it) pop up, but instead of a serious discussion about separating the mystery icon into puzzles, challenges, and mystery icons, instead is just a way to express dislike of puzzle caches.

 

How about instead a serious suggestion of adding two new icons:

 

 

Sure, it wouldn't be easy to implement overnight, but in the long run would be worth it, IMO.

[+narcissa]

I keep seeing this forum topic (or variations of it) pop up, but instead of a serious discussion about separating the mystery icon into puzzles, challenges, and mystery icons, instead is just a way to express dislike of puzzle caches.

 

How about instead a serious suggestion of adding two new icons:

 

 

Sure, it wouldn't be easy to implement overnight, but in the long run would be worth it, IMO.

 

I like this idea.

 

I could even get behind just splitting it into two (mystery and challenge) and asking people to more properly classify multi-waypoint caches as multis, not puzzles.

[+niraD]

I understand how a Challenge Cache is different from a puzzle, or from most other types of mystery/puzzle caches (although there are Challenge Caches that include puzzles).

 

But where do you draw the line between Puzzle Caches and Mystery Caches?

Edited June 22, 2014 by niraD

[+The_Incredibles_]

How about just having 1) puzzles 2) night caches 3) no challenges

[+niraD]

How about just having 1) puzzles 2) night caches 3) no challenges

So if a night cache includes puzzles, what should it be listed as? A Puzzle Cache, or a Night Cache?

[+Roman!]

What if it's a puzzling, challenging night cache?

[+TopShelfRob]

Well I would say if it's just a pure puzzle cache, it's "puzzle"; if it's just a pure challenge cache, then it's "challenge". Anything else that is any combination of the above or anything else unknown would be in the catch-all "mystery" cache category like it is now. If it's there's anything uncertain about the category, it would be "mystery".

 

I'd consider 'night' cache to just be an attribute, so a puzzling night cache, would still just be a puzzle cache, but anything could go under the catch-all "mystery" attribute.

Edited June 22, 2014 by TopShelfRob

[+The_Incredibles_]

How about just having 1) puzzles 2) night caches 3) no challenges

So if a night cache includes puzzles, what should it be listed as? A Puzzle Cache, or a Night Cache?

 

Well, then we'd have to create a 3rd icon called a "Nuzzle".

[+T.D.M.22]

I keep seeing this forum topic (or variations of it) pop up, but instead of a serious discussion about separating the mystery icon into puzzles, challenges, and mystery icons, instead is just a way to express dislike of puzzle caches.

 

How about instead a serious suggestion of adding two new icons:

 

 

Sure, it wouldn't be easy to implement overnight, but in the long run would be worth it, IMO.

 

Ok, so a puzzle cache, is a puzzle cache. A challenge, is a challenge. So since an unknown-now called a mystery, which was previously a catch all, but now is apparently it's own thing. So what exactly is a mystery cache?

 

And you're darn right it wouldn't be easy to implement overnight-if this is implemented, in order to avoid confusion by having some caches of one type have the old blue question mark, and now having them have the puzzle piece, they'd all have to have the puzzle piece. Now with 2 million plus geocaches, how many of the are puzzles or challenges? Who's the lucky person to go through what 10? 50? 100 thousand of them?

[+TopShelfRob]

Ok, so a puzzle cache, is a puzzle cache. A challenge, is a challenge. So since an unknown-now called a mystery, which was previously a catch all, but now is apparently it's own thing. So what exactly is a mystery cache?

 

And you're darn right it wouldn't be easy to implement overnight-if this is implemented, in order to avoid confusion by having some caches of one type have the old blue question mark, and now having them have the puzzle piece, they'd all have to have the puzzle piece. Now with 2 million plus geocaches, how many of the are puzzles or challenges? Who's the lucky person to go through what 10? 50? 100 thousand of them?

A mystery is still a catch-all for everything else, you're just giving an option to catergorize pure puzzles and pure challenges more accurately. Anything else that is "unknown" or a combination or unsure would still have the blue question mark. And the system wouldn't have to try to retroactively reclassify all existing caches. Leave everything already in as just mystery caches, but of course a CO, could - through his reviewer - change the classification for his puzzles and challenge caches. Over a period of a time (long-term) we will come to understand: Puzzle = "puzzle cache", Challenge = "challenge cache", and mystery is just that, a mystery... it could be a puzzle, it could be a challenge, or it could be something else entirely, a combination of a puzzle/challenge or simply just unknown...you'd have to look at the cache page to see what it is (just like now).

 

Think of it like this... right now it is one basket that just says "fruit"... it has apples, oranges, bananas, orange-tangerine hybrids, kumquats, half-apple-half kumquats hybrids, mangos, half-mango-half kumquats hybrids, half-mango-half apple hybrids, etc.

 

We are adding two new baskets that say "apples" and "oranges". All new apples go in "apple" basket. All new oranges go in "orange" basket. But the third basket is still just "fruit" -- it may still have apples and oranges, but it is still a catch-all for all fruit. Just there is a better option to more accurately label new in-coming apples and oranges now.

[+niraD]

Well I would say if it's just a pure puzzle cache, it's "puzzle"; if it's just a pure challenge cache, then it's "challenge". Anything else that is any combination of the above or anything else unknown would be in the catch-all "mystery" cache category like it is now. If it's there's anything uncertain about the category, it would be "mystery".

Okay, so what is a "pure puzzle cache", and how does it differ from a "mystery cache" with puzzle elements?

 

I think there is a clear distinction between challenges and other mystery/puzzle caches, and I'd like to see a new type (or at least a new attribute) for challenge caches. But I've done a few mystery/puzzle caches myself, and I'm having a hard time drawing a clear line between a puzzle (or a "pure puzzle", or whatever you want to call it) and a catch-all mystery.

 

The geocaching community at large already disagrees on the distinction between multi-caches and mystery/puzzle caches, so I think expecting everyone to agree on the distinction between puzzle caches and mystery caches is rather unrealistic, unless you can clearly articulate the distinction between the two.

[+TopShelfRob]

Well I would say if it's just a pure puzzle cache, it's "puzzle"; if it's just a pure challenge cache, then it's "challenge". Anything else that is any combination of the above or anything else unknown would be in the catch-all "mystery" cache category like it is now. If it's there's anything uncertain about the category, it would be "mystery".

Okay, so what is a "pure puzzle cache", and how does it differ from a "mystery cache" with puzzle elements?

 

I think there is a clear distinction between challenges and other mystery/puzzle caches, and I'd like to see a new type (or at least a new attribute) for challenge caches. But I've done a few mystery/puzzle caches myself, and I'm having a hard time drawing a clear line between a puzzle (or a "pure puzzle", or whatever you want to call it) and a catch-all mystery.

 

The geocaching community at large already disagrees on the distinction between multi-caches and mystery/puzzle caches, so I think expecting everyone to agree on the distinction between puzzle caches and mystery caches is rather unrealistic, unless you can clearly articulate the distinction between the two.

Well I would define specifically what constitues a puzzle cache and a challenge cache, and that they would be merely a specific subset of mystery/unknown caches. Anything that is now mystery/unknown could still merely be a mystery/unknown, just COs (in consultation with their local reviewer) would have the option of designating them more accurately as puzzles or challenges. But anything like "a 'mystery cache' with puzzle elements" could still get the blue question mark. This wouldn't be an either/or proposition, any of them could accurately still be called mystery/unknown, the only difference is COs would have the option of more specifically categorizing them as either "puzzles" or "challenges".

 

Definitions:

 

A puzzle cache - a cache that requires the geocacher to solve a puzzle in order to determine the co-ordinates to find the cache.

A challenge cache - a cache that requires the geocacher to meet a geocaching-related qualification or series of tasks before the challenge cache can be logged as found.

A mystery/unknown cache - The "catch-all" of geocache types, this type includes caches that may otherwise be designated as "puzzle" or "challenge" caches, and/or may be a hybrid of multiple cache types that do not fit solely in one cache type category, and they often become the staging ground for new and unique geocaches that do not fit in another category.

 

All puzzle caches are mystery/unknown caches. All challenge caches are mystery/unknown caches. But not all mystery/unknown caches are necessarily puzzle or challenge caches. If you are unsure whether your proposed cache is a "puzzle" or a "challenge" then you cannot go wrong by merely categorizing it as a mystery/unknown.

 

Edited June 23, 2014 by TopShelfRob

[+Semper Questio]

Not only would I like to see challenges and puzzles split out, I'd also like to see puzzles split between field puzzles and "desk" puzzles.

[+TopShelfRob]

Not only would I like to see challenges and puzzles split out, I'd also like to see puzzles split between field puzzles and "desk" puzzles.

Whoa, let's just take it one step at a time...

 

Besides with smartphones and an internet connection, a lot of desk puzzles can be solved in the field, and with Google Map Streetview, a lot of field puzzles can be solved at the desk.

Edited June 23, 2014 by TopShelfRob

[+niraD]

Not only would I like to see challenges and puzzles split out, I'd also like to see puzzles split between field puzzles and "desk" puzzles.

Whoa, let's just take it one step at a time...

 

Besides with smartphones and an internet connection, a lot of desk puzzles can be solved in the field, and with Google Map Streetview, a lot of field puzzles can be solved at the desk.

Not to mention the "desk" puzzles that lead to field puzzles. Or the field puzzles that can be solved at your desk if you use the right resources.

[+J Grouchy]

Well I would say if it's just a pure puzzle cache, it's "puzzle"; if it's just a pure challenge cache, then it's "challenge". Anything else that is any combination of the above or anything else unknown would be in the catch-all "mystery" cache category like it is now. If it's there's anything uncertain about the category, it would be "mystery".

Okay, so what is a "pure puzzle cache", and how does it differ from a "mystery cache" with puzzle elements?

 

I think there is a clear distinction between challenges and other mystery/puzzle caches, and I'd like to see a new type (or at least a new attribute) for challenge caches. But I've done a few mystery/puzzle caches myself, and I'm having a hard time drawing a clear line between a puzzle (or a "pure puzzle", or whatever you want to call it) and a catch-all mystery.

 

The geocaching community at large already disagrees on the distinction between multi-caches and mystery/puzzle caches, so I think expecting everyone to agree on the distinction between puzzle caches and mystery caches is rather unrealistic, unless you can clearly articulate the distinction between the two.

Well I would define specifically what constitues a puzzle cache and a challenge cache, and that they would be merely a specific subset of mystery/unknown caches. Anything that is now mystery/unknown could still merely be a mystery/unknown, just COs (in consultation with their local reviewer) would have the option of designating them more accurately as puzzles or challenges. But anything like "a 'mystery cache' with puzzle elements" could still get the blue question mark. This wouldn't be an either/or proposition, any of them could accurately still be called mystery/unknown, the only difference is COs would have the option of more specifically categorizing them as either "puzzles" or "challenges".

 

Definitions:

 

A puzzle cache - a cache that requires the geocacher to solve a puzzle in order to determine the co-ordinates to find the cache.

A challenge cache - a cache that requires the geocacher to meet a geocaching-related qualification or series of tasks before the challenge cache can be logged as found.

A mystery/unknown cache - The "catch-all" of geocache types, this type includes caches that may otherwise be designated as "puzzle" or "challenge" caches, and/or may be a hybrid of multiple cache types that do not fit solely in one cache type category, and they often become the staging ground for new and unique geocaches that do not fit in another category.

 

All puzzle caches are mystery/unknown caches. All challenge caches are mystery/unknown caches. But not all mystery/unknown caches are necessarily puzzle or challenge caches. If you are unsure whether your proposed cache is a "puzzle" or a "challenge" then you cannot go wrong by merely categorizing it as a mystery/unknown.

 

 

I don't think there's really any confusion about challenges. There are specific requirements for publishing a challenge, namely (pun intended) the requirement to have the word "challenge" in the name of the cache. Additionally, they are the only caches allowed to have ALRs, so breaking out challenges would be a lot easier...so take that out of your fruit basket equation.

 

So now you are left with "puzzle" caches and "mystery" caches...what's the difference? I think that until you can clarify that, I'd argue that there are only "challenge caches" and "mystery caches"...the former having the ALRs and the latter encompassing everything from field puzzles to "desk puzzles" to hidden text on the webpage to ciphers to cryptograms and so on and so on. To me, "mystery" is a good generic term that can include - but is not limited to - puzzles.

[+TopShelfRob]

I don't think there's really any confusion about challenges. There are specific requirements for publishing a challenge, namely (pun intended) the requirement to have the word "challenge" in the name of the cache. Additionally, they are the only caches allowed to have ALRs, so breaking out challenges would be a lot easier...so take that out of your fruit basket equation.

 

So now you are left with "puzzle" caches and "mystery" caches...what's the difference? I think that until you can clarify that, I'd argue that there are only "challenge caches" and "mystery caches"...the former having the ALRs and the latter encompassing everything from field puzzles to "desk puzzles" to hidden text on the webpage to ciphers to cryptograms and so on and so on. To me, "mystery" is a good generic term that can include - but is not limited to - puzzles.

Well, when I think of a mystery caches that aren't simple puzzle caches, I'm thinking of things like: a cache that has the keys to open it in a travel bug, or a challenge cache that has a puzzle to find the physical container, a multi-cache hybrid that uses puzzles and offsets, etc. and is more than just a simple puzzle where you have to solve for A, B, C and D to get the coordinantes.

 

That's why I'm trying to stress that all puzzles, challenges would still be under the umbrella of mystery/unknown, just I'm proposing giving CO the option of using two new icons to help sort the ones that are clearly just a challenge cache or clearly just a puzzle cache. By all means, you could still list a puzzle or challenge as an unknown if it was in any grey area.

 

The fault in the logic is we are stuck in the "if it isn't A, then it must be B" kind of thinking. I'm saying "they are all A, but some of them could better be labelled B or C instead"

Edited June 23, 2014 by TopShelfRob

[+TopShelfRob]

In fact, if it is any easier to think of (and implement) it this way, think of mystery/unknown as still being just one cache type, but with three different icons to choose from in the submission process:

 

• mystery (puzzle) - only puzzles
  
• mystery (challenge) - only challenges
  
• mystery (unknown) - catch-all for anything else
  

Edited June 23, 2014 by TopShelfRob

[+J Grouchy]

In fact, if it is any easier to think of (and implement) it this way, think of mystery/unknown as still being just one cache type, but with three different icons to choose from in the submission process:

 

• mystery (puzzle) - only puzzles
  
• mystery (challenge) - only challenges
  
• mystery (unknown) - catch-all for anything else
  

 

I just think having a sub-class of mystery caches will only confuse people and cause problems down the road. I'm all for breaking out challenges into their own type (and I still believe they shouldn't really be caches at all, but rather "achievements" on the GC site)...but I don't honestly see an advantage to making straight-out puzzles their own type. Too much overlap, too much gray area.

[+TopShelfRob]

I just think having a sub-class of mystery caches will only confuse people and cause problems down the road. I'm all for breaking out challenges into their own type (and I still believe they shouldn't really be caches at all, but rather "achievements" on the GC site)...but I don't honestly see an advantage to making straight-out puzzles their own type. Too much overlap, too much gray area.

Well, no idea is perfect. Just a proposal.

[+narcissa]

It would even help to just have a couple more attributes. A challenge attribute and a power trail attribute would be immensely helpful for me, because those are cache types I would generally want to filter out.