Webcam cache coordinates are wrong

[+hobgoblinkiteflier]

I recently failed to find a webcam cache at a railway station in Amsterdam GCJR76 . Now that I am home and have run the page and some previous logs through Google Translate, I can see that I was at the wrong station! The description mentions the new coordinates, but my preparations were unfortunately not thorough enough. I was disappointed to say the least, especially as I had my family watching from home.

 

Is there any reason why the cache owner can't change the coordinates? The real location is about 1/2 mile or 1km away so maybe that needs a reviewer to get involved. Perhaps the CO is afraid that the reviewer would archive the cache. It would be a shame to lose a rare cache, especially one with a live camera picture, but I don't think a normal cache with such wildly wrong coordinates would be tolerated.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I recently failed to find a webcam cache at a railway station in Amsterdam GCJR76 . Now that I am home and have run the page and some previous logs through Google Translate, I can see that I was at the wrong station! The description mentions the new coordinates, but my preparations were unfortunately not thorough enough. I was disappointed to say the least, especially as I had my family watching from home.

 

Is there any reason why the cache owner can't change the coordinates? The real location is about 1/2 mile or 1km away so maybe that needs a reviewer to get involved. Perhaps the CO is afraid that the reviewer would archive the cache. It would be a shame to lose a rare cache, especially one with a live camera picture, but I don't think a normal cache with such wildly wrong coordinates would be tolerated.

 

That's a good question. Typically changing the coordinates more that a 528' requires reviewer intervention and it would often be suggested that if a cache moves that far that it is a *different* cache and a new listing should be created. Of course, new webcam caches can not be published, so the owner (who appears to be currently active) might have not tried to change the coordinate in fear that the reviewer would ask that it be archived since it's moved so far away from it's original location. Unfortunately, by posting the GC code you may have outed the issue and sealed it's fate.

[Pup Patrol]

I recently failed to find a webcam cache at a railway station in Amsterdam GCJR76 . Now that I am home and have run the page and some previous logs through Google Translate, I can see that I was at the wrong station! The description mentions the new coordinates, but my preparations were unfortunately not thorough enough. I was disappointed to say the least, especially as I had my family watching from home.

 

Is there any reason why the cache owner can't change the coordinates? The real location is about 1/2 mile or 1km away so maybe that needs a reviewer to get involved. Perhaps the CO is afraid that the reviewer would archive the cache. It would be a shame to lose a rare cache, especially one with a live camera picture, but I don't think a normal cache with such wildly wrong coordinates would be tolerated.

 

There are correct coordinates right at the top of the description:

 

Gebruik de coords N 52 20.260 E 004 53.328 voor deze cache

 

Google translation: Use the coords: N 52 20.260 E 004 53 328 for this cache

 

Not that translation was necessary. It's pretty obvious what that sentence is saying, just by comparing those coords to the published ones.

 

Was this added after you read the cache description?

 

Maybe the cache owner simply doesn't know how to change the coordinates correctly.

 

Or is very aware of how doing so would most likely result in archival by the reviewer.

 

Put it on your watchlist, because it's probably history now that you've posted it on the forums.

 

 

B.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Pup Patrol

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

For one thing, the CO cannot change the coordinates if the distance is 1/2 mile (2.6 K). It requires a reviewer to do it...

...which causes another concern. (New) Webcam caches are not allowed. Existing Webcam caches are grandfathered. Bringing a reviewer in to see that it is so far off, it may simply be archived as the reviewer may well determine that it is a "new" placement.

 

So... it's a darned if you do, darned if you don't situation.

 

Even at that... you say your preps weren't good enough. I think you should call it a DNF and let it go... but, that's just my opinion.

[+hobgoblinkiteflier]

Yeah, it's pretty obvious when you're sitting at your computer. But after you have quickly looked at a few caches through Google Translate just in case you get some time to go for a cache or two and when you are worrying about not missing your flight home, it is not quite so obvious.

 

it's probably history now that you've posted it on the forums

It is certainly not my intention to lose this cache. Just to save others from unnecessary grief. Looking through the logs I can see a few people have had similar experiences.

[+Ambrosia]

Can webcam coordinates be changed? I know that you cannot change the coordinates for virtuals anymore.

[+The A-Team]

Can webcam coordinates be changed?

I'd like to see an official statement from one or more Lackeys and/or reviewers regarding this.

 

I know of another Webcam with a similar scenario as the one in the OP (ie. posted coordinates are wrong, new coordinates are in the description) and it would be great if these could be fixed.

[+Walts Hunting]

First Who reads descriptions anymore.

 

It is obvious that the CO got the coords wrong. That is something that would be noticed immediately so there are two possibilities.

 

He accidentally put in the wrong station and didn't do the right thing by disabling it and asking the reviewer to move it.

 

He knows there is another cache around that would violate the 528 rule or whatever the meters are for over there so he go tit published and then put the first sentence in.

 

Either way it seems a NA log would be the best thing or a quiet note to the reviewer about this problem.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Walts Hunting

[jholly]

Can webcam coordinates be changed?

I'd like to see an official statement from one or more Lackeys and/or reviewers regarding this.

 

I know of another Webcam with a similar scenario as the one in the OP (ie. posted coordinates are wrong, new coordinates are in the description) and it would be great if these could be fixed.

I think there already was one.

[+The A-Team]

First Who reads descriptions anymore.

<raises hand>

I do. For every cache, unless it's a series with the same description in each. Descriptions can contain important information regarding access, safety, and the hide itself. It can also contain interesting information like the history of the cache's location. IMO, every cacher should read every description, and the descriptions of my hides assume this.

 

It is obvious that the CO got the coords wrong. That is something that would be noticed immediately so there are two possibilities.

 

He accidentally put in the wrong station and didn't do the right thing by disabling it and asking the reviewer to move it.

This isn't obvious to me. A much more likely situation, as is the case for the other Webcam I referred to, is that the original webcam became unusable and an alternate webcam was used for the cache.

 

He knows there is another cache around that would violate the 528 rule or whatever the meters are for over there so he go tit published and then put the first sentence in.

Since Webcams are a form of virtual cache, the proximity guideline doesn't apply. There would be no need to game the system.

 

Either way it seems a NA log would be the best thing or a quiet note to the reviewer about this problem.

If you consider what I've said above, you'd see that an NA would be uncalled-for. All that needs to be done is for the coordinates to be updated (if possible). Is that really worthy of suggesting the cache be archived?

[+palmetto]

Can webcam coordinates be changed? I know that you cannot change the coordinates for virtuals anymore.

 

Neither the owner nor a reviewer can make any edit of any distance to the coords on a webcam or virt.

[+The A-Team]

Neither the owner nor a reviewer can make any edit of any distance to the coords on a webcam or virt.

Thanks palmetto!

Would that mean that the Webcam cache mentioned in the OP is unfixable and probably destined to be archived in the near future? Yeah, I know, you're not the reviewer for that area, but what if one in your area had this problem?

[Keystone]

For one thing, the CO cannot change the coordinates if the distance is 1/2 mile (2.6 K). It requires a reviewer to do it...

...which causes another concern. (New) Webcam caches are not allowed. Existing Webcam caches are grandfathered. Bringing a reviewer in to see that it is so far off, it may simply be archived as the reviewer may well determine that it is a "new" placement.

 

So... it's a darned if you do, darned if you don't situation.

This analysis is correct.

Can webcam coordinates be changed? I know that you cannot change the coordinates for virtuals anymore.

Webcams, like virtuals, are frozen to coordinate updates. That's because it's a grandfathered cache type. Once the webcam is gone from the spot, the cache should be gone with it.

 

I am aware of just one exception made over the years since 2005 when webcams became a grandfathered cache type. A webcam at a nice local park went out of service (that is, the camera broke). The park didn't have the funding to replace it. The local geocaching group, wanting to promote better relations with this park system, raised the funds and paid for the new webcam equipment. A decision was then made to install the new webcam on a more stable platform a short distance away from the original location. Geocaching HQ, under these unique circumstances, was happy to update the coordinates. A cache owner couldn't do it; not even a reviewer could do it.

[+The_Incredibles_]

First Who reads descriptions anymore.

 

I do, especially if it's a webcam cache!!

[jholly]

<snip>

Geocaching HQ, under these unique circumstances, was happy to update the coordinates. A cache owner couldn't do it; not even a reviewer could do it.

Ah, that explains the one instance I was aware of a virtual being updated.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

For one thing, the CO cannot change the coordinates if the distance is 1/2 mile (2.6 K). It requires a reviewer to do it...

...which causes another concern. (New) Webcam caches are not allowed. Existing Webcam caches are grandfathered. Bringing a reviewer in to see that it is so far off, it may simply be archived as the reviewer may well determine that it is a "new" placement.

 

So... it's a darned if you do, darned if you don't situation.

This analysis is correct.

Can webcam coordinates be changed? I know that you cannot change the coordinates for virtuals anymore.

Webcams, like virtuals, are frozen to coordinate updates. That's because it's a grandfathered cache type. Once the webcam is gone from the spot, the cache should be gone with it.

 

Okay, that's the policy, but is it a policy that really has a tangible benefit? Webcams, and to a lesser extent Virtual caches are relatively rare. Some geocachers will travel significant distances to find a webcam cache (the closest to me is over 2 hours away), and if we are to consider favorite points, many virtual caches are very popular. There is certainly no shortage of "Bring back Virtuals" threads. Yes, both types are grandfathered, and I can understand that if a cache of either (or any) type isn't being maintained due to an inactive owner that it should be archived, but what is the downside of allowing coordinates to be changed on a webcam cache.

 

Does the fact that a cache type is grandfathered mean that GS would like all instances of that type to go away?

Edited May 7, 2014 by NYPaddleCacher

[Mr.Yuck]

I actually knew about this. A Webcam cache I found in like 2007 was archived 3 or 4 years later. It was in the front window of a computer store in a small town, and they moved a few storefronts down. Not sure if they even put the webcam up in the new location, but it had to be archived. I remember getting the notification, as it was just a couple miles under my 50 mile notification radius.

 

Now we can only hope this thread does NOT result in the webcam in question being archived.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Mr.Yuck

[Cascade Reviewer]

Closing down the thread at OP's request.