Feedback on this please...

[FaithCacher22]

I'm in the process of working out my next cache, it's a multi, and 2 of the stages are non-physical containers, where you find the sign at the coordinate, and are told this (on the cache page):

 

You are looking for specific information. Find the sign, and the following letters: 5th word, 2nd letter; 8th word, 1st letter; 10th word, 6th letter; 13th word, 4th letter; 15th word, 1st letter; 17th word, 4th letter.

- then use the code at the bottom of this description to decipher the numbers you need to plug into this coordinate, left to right in order:

 

N 52 38.xxx E 000 41.xxx

 

DECIPHER CODE:

A=3

B=4

C=7

D=1

E=3

F=0

G=9

H=2

I=4

J=6

K=1

L=8

M=5

N=1

O=8

P=0

Q=5

R=7

S=8

T=0

U=3

V=2

W=4

X=9

Y=6

Z=1

 

Just wanting to see if this makes sense, what I'm trying to have them do, did I convey the instructions well? Also, would you note "field puzzle" on the attributes or not? I'm thinking no, it's not really a PUZZLE... what do you think?

Edited May 7, 2014 by FaithCacher22

[+T.D.M.22]

It is a puzzle- you have to go out to the field to get the info rather than sit at home.

 

Although IMO if only the final location has a container it would be an unknown, not a multi. Multi is 2 or more physical containers. But yes it does make sense.

Edited May 7, 2014 by T.D.M.22

[+NanCycle]

It is a puzzle- you have to go out to the field to get the info rather than sit at home.

 

Although IMO if only the final location has a container it would be an unknown, not a multi. Multi is 2 or more physical containers. But yes it does make sense.

 

Agree in every respect.

[FaithCacher22]

Thanks, I will add the field puzzle attribute. It has 6 stages and only 2 of them have no container, the rest all have a container to find.

[+Harry Dolphin]

It is a puzzle- you have to go out to the field to get the info rather than sit at home.

 

Although IMO if only the final location has a container it would be an unknown, not a multi. Multi is 2 or more physical containers. But yes it does make sense.

 

A cache that takes you to one location to gather information for the next stage IS a multi cache.

[+Bear and Ragged]

It is a puzzle- you have to go out to the field to get the info rather than sit at home.

 

Although IMO if only the final location has a container it would be an unknown, not a multi. Multi is 2 or more physical containers. But yes it does make sense.

 

A cache that takes you to one location to gather information for the next stage IS a multi cache.

 

Agreed!

 

That Stage can be a physical (container/tag) or Question To Answer stage.

[+GeoTrekker26]

It is a puzzle- you have to go out to the field to get the info rather than sit at home.

 

Although IMO if only the final location has a container it would be an unknown, not a multi. Multi is 2 or more physical containers. But yes it does make sense.

 

That must be a regional thing. Around here many, many multi caches have "question to answer" stages with no containers. However the answers to the questions do not require you to return home to decipher them. As has often been discussed, the line between multi and unknown is fuzzy with strong arguments on both sides.

[+dprovan]

You asked if it's clear, and I think it is.

 

Others have commented on multi vs. unknown, and around here that would be called a multi, and probably wouldn't even have the field puzzle attribute, although I think having the field puzzle attribute would be fine since this is a little more complicated than normal.

 

My only concern is that it is a little more complicated than normal. I'm not sure why you're not just using "A=1, B=2" encoding. Without knowing the details, having a special, random encoding seems like an unnecessary step that I'd rather not have to fumble with in the field if I didn't have to. Remember, the list of letter=number looks fine on the web, but when I'm looking at the description in my GPSr, it's going to look like "A=3 B=4 C=7 D=1...", so it'll a little more error prone to do the mapping. But it's OK if there's a good reason for it, like if the letters spell out "you win" or something that gives me confirmation that I've picked out the right letters).

 

I'd definitely appreciate a checksum to detect that I've made one of the several mistakes possible in gathering such numbers, including misunderstandings such as thinking the 2nd word of "4 hour parking" is "parking" even though you think it's "hour".

[FaithCacher22]

You asked if it's clear, and I think it is.

 

Others have commented on multi vs. unknown, and around here that would be called a multi, and probably wouldn't even have the field puzzle attribute, although I think having the field puzzle attribute would be fine since this is a little more complicated than normal.

 

My only concern is that it is a little more complicated than normal. I'm not sure why you're not just using "A=1, B=2" encoding. Without knowing the details, having a special, random encoding seems like an unnecessary step that I'd rather not have to fumble with in the field if I didn't have to. Remember, the list of letter=number looks fine on the web, but when I'm looking at the description in my GPSr, it's going to look like "A=3 B=4 C=7 D=1...", so it'll a little more error prone to do the mapping. But it's OK if there's a good reason for it, like if the letters spell out "you win" or something that gives me confirmation that I've picked out the right letters).

 

I'd definitely appreciate a checksum to detect that I've made one of the several mistakes possible in gathering such numbers, including misunderstandings such as thinking the 2nd word of "4 hour parking" is "parking" even though you think it's "hour".

 

That was something I meant to ask, and forgot about...I've seen some caches say to click a link to check the coordinates and make sure they are right. Is there a site to use for that, or how can I do something to have a check for the coordinates? I hadn't thought about the letters spelling something...I wish I had, but I already had to redo it twice, as I mixed up the signs the first time...

[+NYPaddleCacher]

It is a puzzle- you have to go out to the field to get the info rather than sit at home.

 

Although IMO if only the final location has a container it would be an unknown, not a multi. Multi is 2 or more physical containers. But yes it does make sense.

 

A cache that takes you to one location to gather information for the next stage IS a multi cache.

 

As others have suggested, the line between a multi and a puzzle is a grey one. To me, it depends on what one much do with the information gathered at a location that determines whether it should be a multi or a puzzle. If all it involves is simple arithmetic then it would be a multi. If it requires something more complex, especially if it requires looking up something on the web to figure out what to do (e.g. looking up trigonometry functions) it would be a puzzle (and set the field puzzle attribute).

[+terrkan78]

That was something I meant to ask, and forgot about...I've seen some caches say to click a link to check the coordinates and make sure they are right. Is there a site to use for that, or how can I do something to have a check for the coordinates?

I've used geochecker.com in the past. There are other choices out there, but I'm not sure of the names.

[+Ben0w]

Online tools are not very useful outdoors. If you have a field puzzle I'd suggest using a simple checksum. The cacher then may calculate it without smartphone or online access.

[FaithCacher22]

Online tools are not very useful outdoors. If you have a field puzzle I'd suggest using a simple checksum. The cacher then may calculate it without smartphone or online access.

 

I'd almost rather do that, but how do I do it??

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Online tools are not very useful outdoors. If you have a field puzzle I'd suggest using a simple checksum. The cacher then may calculate it without smartphone or online access.

 

I'd almost rather do that, but how do I do it??

 

If the person is solving for something like:

 

N 52 38.ABC E 000 41.DEF

A simple checksum could be calculated by adding the digits they got for A, B, C, etc. Of course, if they reverse two of the digits they could get the same checksum but you could provide a simple equations such as

( 10 *A ) + ( 5 * B ) + C + D + ( 2 * E ) + F = 678

If the numbers they plugged into the equation didn't add up to 678, the could tell that they to one or more incorrect. Of course, they could also use the equation to determine what some of the digits should be.

BTW, a couple of other popular coordinate checkers are Evince and geocheck.org. I use geocheck.org.

Edited May 7, 2014 by NYPaddleCacher

[+Chrysalides]

It is a puzzle- you have to go out to the field to get the info rather than sit at home.

 

Although IMO if only the final location has a container it would be an unknown, not a multi. Multi is 2 or more physical containers. But yes it does make sense.

 

A cache that takes you to one location to gather information for the next stage IS a multi cache.

 

Agreed!

 

That Stage can be a physical (container/tag) or Question To Answer stage.

 

I agree with your agreement.

 

Though I've found a number of such caches listed as Unknown. I guess it is up to the Reviewer's discretion.

[7rxc]

I've seen Traditionals as field puzzles, even a few that were 'real' puzzles (suspect they were grandfathered in'.

Multis and unknown/mystery caches can certainly be puzzles, field or regular kind, but may be more finely tuned these days.

 

I was always told that the difference between multis and unknown/mystery caches was that a multi has something to find at the posted coordinates... mystery may have false coordinates with nothing there to find or there may be something like a field puzzle or... whatever.

 

That seems to be the way the guidelines read as well, but they seem to change from time to time, mostly for clarification.

 

Doug 7rxc

[+niraD]

Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, caches where you look up information on an existing plaque are consistently listed as multi-caches. Yours is a bit more complicated than most, mainly because you use A=3, B=4, C=7, D=1,... rather than something like A=1, B=2, C=3, D=4,..., but I think it would still be listed as a multi-cache around here.

 

But when I was in Massachusetts a couple years ago, I found that such caches were consistently listed as mystery/puzzle caches.

 

So find a few caches in your area that use virtual (question to answer) waypoints, based on existing signs, plaques, or other objects. That will tell you what the local convention is.

 

But if it were my cache, I'd list it as a multi-cache.

[+dprovan]

That was something I meant to ask, and forgot about...I've seen some caches say to click a link to check the coordinates and make sure they are right. Is there a site to use for that, or how can I do something to have a check for the coordinates? I hadn't thought about the letters spelling something...I wish I had, but I already had to redo it twice, as I mixed up the signs the first time...

As has already been mentioned, geocheckers aren't going to help those of us that don't carry computers into the field, so I recommend against that approach here. But if you're doing an at-home puzzle, the two popular checkers are geochecker.com and certitude. Normally if you follow the link on one of those puzzles, the check page will help you find information about creating a check page for your puzzle.

 

A checksum is just putting the sum of the six digits in the cache page, typically in the hint. It's not foolproof, but it guards against many simple mistakes. (Another alternative is the sum of all the digits in the coordinates including the ones you provide. In at-home puzzles, this is normally preferred, but in the field, it's easier to just sum the digits discovered. The main reason I mention this is that you should be clear which digits are involved in the checksum to avoid any confusion.)

[FaithCacher22]

That was something I meant to ask, and forgot about...I've seen some caches say to click a link to check the coordinates and make sure they are right. Is there a site to use for that, or how can I do something to have a check for the coordinates? I hadn't thought about the letters spelling something...I wish I had, but I already had to redo it twice, as I mixed up the signs the first time...

As has already been mentioned, geocheckers aren't going to help those of us that don't carry computers into the field, so I recommend against that approach here. But if you're doing an at-home puzzle, the two popular checkers are geochecker.com and certitude. Normally if you follow the link on one of those puzzles, the check page will help you find information about creating a check page for your puzzle.

 

A checksum is just putting the sum of the six digits in the cache page, typically in the hint. It's not foolproof, but it guards against many simple mistakes. (Another alternative is the sum of all the digits in the coordinates including the ones you provide. In at-home puzzles, this is normally preferred, but in the field, it's easier to just sum the digits discovered. The main reason I mention this is that you should be clear which digits are involved in the checksum to avoid any confusion.)

 

Thank you, I think I will do the checksum instead , thanks for the explanations!