Competitive geocaching

[+tozainamboku]

...If a new game were to piggyback on Geocaching.com caches, you could still find and a log caches as you do today...

Sure, but "piggyback" is the reason I asked on the second post.

Our area got hit good a while ago from a "46 of 300 today" group and more than half the containers needed some sort of maintenance afterwards.

Put this on a scale where folks are competing with each other, on a site not associated with this one ("they're not our caches...") and it could be a real pain in the can with maintenance.

 

Exactly.

 

Also, if they're using other people's cache hides, they log their finds with a cut n paste log that thanks the guy who created the new game for the find - not acknowledging the individual caches and the individual cache owners' efforts. Which is what usually happens with a "46 of 300 today" large power caching group. 30+ logs all cut-n-paste, thanking the guy who organized the hunt for the fun day of mega smileys.

I find this excuse that any new idea that brings in new geocachers results in caches being trashed and causing a maintenance fiasco pretty much a hypothetical excuse to oppose any new ideas or concepts aimed at expanding the game. For nearly as long as this website has been around there have been geocachers blaming the newbies for ruining the game. I've responded in the thread on the Intro App killing the hobby, so I won't go into details here.

Needless to say, despite all the predictions of doom and gloom, geocaching has survived numerous changes and several generations of new geocachers each bringing a new approach to the game.

[+cerberus1]

...If a new game were to piggyback on Geocaching.com caches, you could still find and a log caches as you do today...

Sure, but "piggyback" is the reason I asked on the second post.

Our area got hit good a while ago from a "46 of 300 today" group and more than half the containers needed some sort of maintenance afterwards.

Put this on a scale where folks are competing with each other, on a site not associated with this one ("they're not our caches...") and it could be a real pain in the can with maintenance.

 

Exactly.

 

Also, if they're using other people's cache hides, they log their finds with a cut n paste log that thanks the guy who created the new game for the find - not acknowledging the individual caches and the individual cache owners' efforts. Which is what usually happens with a "46 of 300 today" large power caching group. 30+ logs all cut-n-paste, thanking the guy who organized the hunt for the fun day of mega smileys.

I find this excuse that any new idea that brings in new geocachers results in caches being trashed and causing a maintenance fiasco pretty much a hypothetical excuse to oppose any new ideas or concepts aimed at expanding the game. For nearly as long as this website has been around there have been geocachers blaming the newbies for ruining the game. I've responded in the thread on the Intro App killing the hobby, so I won't go into details here.

Needless to say, despite all the predictions of doom and gloom, geocaching has survived numerous changes and several generations of new geocachers each bringing a new approach to the game.

Before I presented my "hypothetical" excuse, I gave a real example of what happens when people are in a hurry.

[+tozainamboku]

Before I presented my "hypothetical" excuse, I gave a real example of what happens when people are in a hurry.

You gave an anecdotal example with a statistic that seems likely to have been made up. Did someone actually check all 300 caches this group found and determine that half (or more than half) had some maintenance issue caused by this group? How did this compare to the number of caches that had maintenance issues before the group came thru?

 

It's always easy to blame. It's much harder to prove.

 

In any case, I'm not sure that these are problems that haven't always existed. I recall going out to find a series of about 10 decon containers someone hid on a hiking trail. It was just myself and I was not in any hurry. The next person who did the series said they found half of the decon containers opened. I never lived down the reputation I got for not knowing how to close a decon.

[+cerberus1]

Before I presented my "hypothetical" excuse, I gave a real example of what happens when people are in a hurry.

You gave an anecdotal example with a statistic that seems likely to have been made up. Did someone actually check all 300 caches this group found and determine that half (or more than half) had some maintenance issue caused by this group? How did this compare to the number of caches that had maintenance issues before the group came thru?

 

It's always easy to blame. It's much harder to prove.

 

In any case, I'm not sure that these are problems that haven't always existed. I recall going out to find a series of about 10 decon containers someone hid on a hiking trail. It was just myself and I was not in any hurry. The next person who did the series said they found half of the decon containers opened. I never lived down the reputation I got for not knowing how to close a decon.

- Not worth it...

Merry Christmas.

Edited December 24, 2013 by cerberus1

[Clan Riffster]

I think the OPs original idea could work, with some tweaking. Off the top of my noggin' I'd suggest doing this primarily on some other website that the OP hosts himself. Make a maximum Clan size. Maybe 4 cachers per Clan? 6? Whatever number appeals to you. Make the only caches included in this proposed side game be those hidden by the Clans. If the competitive aspect catches on, that should help cut down on cheating, since one Clan would be unlikely to share whatever verification method you employ, with competing Clans. Incorporate the current D/T rating into your scoring system, with some sort of elevating scale? A 2/2 would earn 4 times as many points as a 1/1. A 3/3 would earn 12 times as many points. Or something like that. Or, just exclude anything below a 2/2?

 

As a Clan member, I would log into your site, see what caches were listed by competing Clans and go find them, earning points along the way. I can see this appealing to some folks.

 

Another option would be to borrow ChiliHead's coding for Intercaching. Build in a verification system in your version. Clans would write cartridges for any caches they wanted, regardless of ownership, and the win would be tied into simply arriving at ground zero?

 

Personally, I have no use for competition in this hobby.

 

But for those who enjoy that kind of thing, I with you luck.

[+JesandTodd]

- Not worth it...

Merry Christmas.

Best.response.ever

 

Merry Christmas!!

[+wmpastor]

LPC'S As far as the eye can see. I can only imagine micros nanos and throwdowns would sprout in numbers with ppl planting lame caches to increase numbers/points.

Every visionary idea is at first greeted by nay-sayers!

[+TrinIzzyCar]

LPC'S As far as the eye can see. I can only imagine micros nanos and throwdowns would sprout in numbers with ppl planting lame caches to increase numbers/points.

Every visionary idea is at first greeted by nay-sayers!

This true... It had to be somebody...and I was free that day

[+L0ne.R]

...If a new game were to piggyback on Geocaching.com caches, you could still find and a log caches as you do today...

Sure, but "piggyback" is the reason I asked on the second post.

Our area got hit good a while ago from a "46 of 300 today" group and more than half the containers needed some sort of maintenance afterwards.

Put this on a scale where folks are competing with each other, on a site not associated with this one ("they're not our caches...") and it could be a real pain in the can with maintenance.

 

Exactly.

 

Also, if they're using other people's cache hides, they log their finds with a cut n paste log that thanks the guy who created the new game for the find - not acknowledging the individual caches and the individual cache owners' efforts. Which is what usually happens with a "46 of 300 today" large power caching group. 30+ logs all cut-n-paste, thanking the guy who organized the hunt for the fun day of mega smileys.

I find this excuse that any new idea that brings in new geocachers results in caches being trashed and causing a maintenance fiasco pretty much a hypothetical excuse to oppose any new ideas or concepts aimed at expanding the game. For nearly as long as this website has been around there have been geocachers blaming the newbies for ruining the game. I've responded in the thread on the Intro App killing the hobby, so I won't go into details here.

Needless to say, despite all the predictions of doom and gloom, geocaching has survived numerous changes and several generations of new geocachers each bringing a new approach to the game.

 

I'm not blaming the newbies. Competition whether it's newbies or established cachers, is very likely to result in the typical logs you see when a power caching group hits your cache hide, or when your cache gets swallowed up by a PT cache series. Your cache becomes a blur in the day, barely remembered as the group hurries from one cache to another. It has happened to our cache hides and generally by well established geocachers who normally write something meaningful when not out power caching. Anything competitive is likely to result in the same sort of cut n paste logs that say nothing about the actual cache find. The only reward most of us cache hiders have is the log that tells us our efforts were noticed and appreciated (beyond simply another notch in the smiley count).

 

I like Clan Riffsters idea to create a website specifically for this side game, with caches placed by the gamers for the gamers. They don't even need to hide containers, they could use location-based QR codes. Google: location based qr code game, for ideas.

Edited December 26, 2013 by L0ne.R

[+tozainamboku]

LPC'S As far as the eye can see. I can only imagine micros nanos and throwdowns would sprout in numbers with ppl planting lame caches to increase numbers/points.

Every visionary idea is at first greeted by nay-sayers!

This true... It had to be somebody...and I was free that day

I have to agree. The first time I saw soft-serve ice cream I dreaded the day where you would find soft-serve everywhere. Even ice cream parlors who used to boast that their product was hand scooped and hand packed would have soft-serve machines. I blame it all on competitive ice-cream eating contests.

[+Bobo76]

Oh people, ease up.

Geocaching is totally cool.

Warhammer 40k is a very cool tabletop game and has a very detailed background story.

Competition must not be a bad thing.

If the OP can devise some good rules and this results in fun gameplay for some, why not?

Everybody seems to search for potential problems. Look for potential instead!

[Clan Riffster]

Competition must not be a bad thing.!

I don't think anyone is suggesting competition, in and of itself, is a bad thing. Anyone who has reviewed the produce sales from their local grocery store would walk away believing that cabbage is not a bad thing. But I still hate cabbage. Just because I happen to dislike cabbage, as well as disliking competition mixed with hobbies I use to relax, doesn't mean either cabbage, or competition, are inherently evil.

[+niraD]

Everybody seems to search for potential problems. Look for potential instead!

What if the potential we see is the potential for problems? Shouldn't we call these problems to the person's attention?

 

For example, some of us have seen the problems that occur when people hide caches not because they want to own and maintain a cache for the long term, but because hiding a cache qualifies them for some other reward. Or we've seen the problems that occur when caches are subsumed into someone else's metagame. If a proposal looks like it may contribute to problems like these, and there is no indication that these kinds of problems have been considered (let alone addressed), then shouldn't we call them to the person's attention?

[+JL_HSTRE]

The tokens idea sounds like pathtags.

[+TrinIzzyCar]

Competition must not be a bad thing.!

I don't think anyone is suggesting competition, in and of itself, is a bad thing. Anyone who has reviewed the produce sales from their local grocery store would walk away believing that cabbage is not a bad thing. But I still hate cabbage. Just because I happen to dislike cabbage, as well as disliking competition mixed with hobbies I use to relax, doesn't mean either cabbage, or competition, are inherently evil.

No I'm pretty sure cabbage IS evil.

[+tozainamboku]

Competition must not be a bad thing.!

I don't think anyone is suggesting competition, in and of itself, is a bad thing. Anyone who has reviewed the produce sales from their local grocery store would walk away believing that cabbage is not a bad thing. But I still hate cabbage. Just because I happen to dislike cabbage, as well as disliking competition mixed with hobbies I use to relax, doesn't mean either cabbage, or competition, are inherently evil.

No I'm pretty sure cabbage IS evil.

It's like Brussels sprouts - only bigger

[+Bobo76]

Today I learned that cabbage is evil. I need to remember this because it might interfere with my plan to dominate the world.

;-)

[+TrinIzzyCar]

Today I learned that cabbage is evil. I need to remember this because it might interfere with my plan to dominate the world.

;-)

You could have cabbage minion's

[+wmpastor]

Today I learned that cabbage is evil. I need to remember this because it might interfere with my plan to dominate the world.

;-)

You could have cabbage minion's

The forces of good will mince those minions!

[+K13]

Before someone comes along with slaw recipes, I'm getting back on topic. I would not approve of any of my caches being listed on some other website, nor would I want my caches included in some sort of other game that was using this site as its base of play.

[+JesandTodd]

Before someone comes along with slaw recipes, I'm getting back on topic. I would not approve of any of my caches being listed on some other website, nor would I want my caches included in some sort of other game that was using this site as its base of play.

 

Would there be any way to prevent this? Could other non-caching websites use our caches for other things?

 

Also-how could anybody hate Brussel sprouts or cabbage??? that is most perplexing...

[+niraD]

Before someone comes along with slaw recipes, I'm getting back on topic. I would not approve of any of my caches being listed on some other website, nor would I want my caches included in some sort of other game that was using this site as its base of play.

Would there be any way to prevent this? Could other non-caching websites use our caches for other things?

A lot depends on how our caches are being used. As part of cache maintenance, the CO could remove QR codes or tokens or other physical objects that were left as part of some other game. Or if information were left in the log, then the CO could replace the log, or remove page(s) from the log, or simply black out the extra information left in the log.

 

If it's a meta-game based on geocaching stats, then there isn't much the CO can do, unless the meta-game leads its players to take shortcuts with their geocaching. For example, if a cache is being subjected to the three cache monte (aka cache shuffling) thanks to a nearby numbers run trail, then the CO could tether or otherwise secure the cache container, and delete online logs for anyone who leaves a throwdown. But if the players of the meta-game are legitimately finding your cache, then there isn't much you can do to keep them from using it to fill their difficulty–terrain grid, or their 366-day grid, or their alphabet list, or whatever.

 

Also-how could anybody hate Brussel sprouts or cabbage??? that is most perplexing...

Well, my wife and I used to eat and enjoy steamed Brussels sprouts. But since we tried roasted Brussels sprouts, I don't think we will ever steam them again. Maybe it's something like that, except that they just know they don't like steamed Brussels sprouts, and haven't discovered roasted Brussels sprouts yet...

[+JesandTodd]

.

 

Also-how could anybody hate Brussel sprouts or cabbage??? that is most perplexing...

Well, my wife and I used to eat and enjoy steamed Brussels sprouts. But since we tried roasted Brussels sprouts, I don't think we will ever steam them again. Maybe it's something like that, except that they just know they don't like steamed Brussels sprouts, and haven't discovered roasted Brussels sprouts yet...

 

Next time, tries the leaves sautéed. A bit of work, but soooooo worth it!

 

 

For the other stuff...I guess i was thinking of a different website, crawling the GS website, and then using my cache information for some other kind of game...

[Clan Riffster]

Before someone comes along with slaw recipes, I'm getting back on topic. I would not approve of any of my caches being listed on some other website, nor would I want my caches included in some sort of other game that was using this site as its base of play.

Yeah, I wouldn't be to keen on it either. That's why I suggested Clan members only hunt caches from other Clans, when playing this side game, if it'll involve any kind of physical verification, like a QR code.

[Mr.Yuck]

Before someone comes along with slaw recipes, I'm getting back on topic. I would not approve of any of my caches being listed on some other website, nor would I want my caches included in some sort of other game that was using this site as its base of play.

 

Finally, with post #70, we have a winner! Not only would I not approve of my caches listed on this site being used as a base of play for another game, I'm guessing just about anyone else who actually pays attention to their caches wouldn't either (and keep in mind there are a lot of cache owners who don't pay attention, or who are long gone).

 

There are precedents here, for people who have tried to use "our caches" as a base for another game. You'd have to have been around a while for both, but the Coin Quest Game, and the EatStayPlay.com free Geocoin promotion both come to mind quickly. Both went over about as well as a lead balloon, with both the general Geocaching populace, and Geocaching.com itself.

 

On top of that, do you really think a website that won't even allow you to mention the name of round signature items with a tiny hole in them would allow someone to piggyback a new game off their website? There's a better chance of me being stuck by lightning as I type this. And look, I just finished, and lightning hasn't struck.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Before someone comes along with slaw recipes, I'm getting back on topic. I would not approve of any of my caches being listed on some other website, nor would I want my caches included in some sort of other game that was using this site as its base of play.

Would there be any way to prevent this? Could other non-caching websites use our caches for other things?

A lot depends on how our caches are being used. As part of cache maintenance, the CO could remove QR codes or tokens or other physical objects that were left as part of some other game. Or if information were left in the log, then the CO could replace the log, or remove page(s) from the log, or simply black out the extra information left in the log.

 

If it's a meta-game based on geocaching stats, then there isn't much the CO can do, unless the meta-game leads its players to take shortcuts with their geocaching. For example, if a cache is being subjected to the three cache monte (aka cache shuffling) thanks to a nearby numbers run trail, then the CO could tether or otherwise secure the cache container, and delete online logs for anyone who leaves a throwdown. But if the players of the meta-game are legitimately finding your cache, then there isn't much you can do to keep them from using it to fill their difficulty–terrain grid, or their 366-day grid, or their alphabet list, or whatever.

 

Also-how could anybody hate Brussel sprouts or cabbage??? that is most perplexing...

Well, my wife and I used to eat and enjoy steamed Brussels sprouts. But since we tried roasted Brussels sprouts, I don't think we will ever steam them again. Maybe it's something like that, except that they just know they don't like steamed Brussels sprouts, and haven't discovered roasted Brussels sprouts yet...

 

Roasted or sliced in half, and fried in butter and garlic, but they're best when you can get them really fresh on the stalk. The smaller ones are better, but you could drill a hole a a big one and stick a nano container in it