Puzzle or Challenge

[+Cissy PSP]

Hi Community

 

I want to place a cache at a particular coordinate. This cache is only at the planning stage, but I need to know if it would be called a Puzzle cache or a Challenge cache. Bear with me.

 

My plan is to place a puzzle box. A type of box that requires thinking in order to open it to get to the log. The box will be placed in a larger camo'd container to protect it from the elements. So, once a cacher finds the cache container, he or she must figure out how to open the puzzle box in order to obtain the log for signing. It will most likely be a 4 star difficulty.

 

Can this be called a puzzle cache or a challenge cache? Or, is it considered a traditional?

 

Thanks for help!

 

Cissy

[+WeightMan]

My vote would be a puzzle. Clearly state in the description that the cache is at the listed coordinates and that the puzzle is to get the log sheet signed.

 

A challenge is generally a cache where a set of caches has to be found first such as a county challenge where the cacher must have a find in every county in the state.

[+dprovan]

Puzzle cache. I've seen things like that list as traditionals, but only with simple puzzles. I prefer any such field puzzle be listed as a puzzle to warn seekers that it will take more than just finding the cache to sign the log. Setting the field puzzle attribute is a second way to give people a heads up.

 

Definitely not a challenge cache.

[+niraD]

It is certainly not a challenge cache. See the Help Center article Challenge Geocaches. But both puzzle caches and challenge caches use the same mystery/puzzle cache type.

 

I've found puzzle-box geocaches before. They have been listed as mystery/puzzle caches, have been located at the posted coordinates, and have been placed inside another container to protect them from the elements.

 

I've heard of puzzle-box geocaches being listed as traditional caches. But even when they are located at the posted coordinates, I don't think this is a good fit. Consider people who are searching for traditional caches: What kinds of geocaching experiences are they expecting? Now consider people who are searching for mystery/puzzle caches: What kinds of geocaching experiences are they expecting? Now consider a puzzle-box geocache: Which groups' expectations is it closer to?

[+Cissy PSP]

Thank you so much for the advice. A Puzzle cache it will be. niraD, that was excellent way of determining which group of cachers this would attract, etc. Ok, thank you very much! I've got my answer :DD..

[+J Grouchy]

I found one that was a traditional, but the log sheet itself was trapped inside one of those plastic boxes with the ball bearing you have to navigate through a maze to unlock it. The cache was located at an old prison farm nearby and the hint in the cache description talked about having to "free the log from it's prison". Despite the mosquitoes, I had a blast with that one.

http://coord.info/GC440B4

[+T.D.M.22]

It is not a challenge cache-Those are usually a cache that you have to complete certain geocaching tasks, such as find 10 virtuals, attend 12 events.

 

While it is a puzzle cache, it is not an unknown (?) cache. Those caches are usually not at the posted co-ords, you usually have to solve a puzzle to find the co-ords.

 

This cache would be a traditional, but with an attribute of field puzzle, since this is at the posted co-ords.

Edited September 12, 2013 by T.D.M.22

[+lamoracke]

While I certainly agree that its not a challenge, I think the question should it be a field puzzle traditional or an unknown is not entirely known. I have seen both ways many times. I'd probably go with traditional and the field puzzle attribute personally, especially if it requires no outside research or planning, you just need to think or bring the right TOTT.

Edited September 12, 2013 by lamoracke

[+Cissy PSP]

Ok, there are two schools of thought then. Hmm....well, I'll make my decision at time of placement, I guess. Thanks!

[+Cissy PSP]

I found one that was a traditional, but the log sheet itself was trapped inside one of those plastic boxes with the ball bearing you have to navigate through a maze to unlock it. The cache was located at an old prison farm nearby and the hint in the cache description talked about having to "free the log from it's prison". Despite the mosquitoes, I had a blast with that one.

http://coord.info/GC440B4

 

What an awesome and name of cache too!

[+Bear and Ragged]

Whilst it can be listed as a Traditional with the Field Puzzle attribute, you stand a chance of cachers NOT reading the description and turning up not expecting the puzzle... How do you sign the log? - Break the box!

 

Listed as an Unknown, most cachers will read the description, and be forewarned!

May get fewer visits, but should get some better logs!

[+niraD]

Whilst it can be listed as a Traditional with the Field Puzzle attribute, you stand a chance of cachers NOT reading the description and turning up not expecting the puzzle... How do you sign the log? - Break the box!

 

Listed as an Unknown, most cachers will read the description, and be forewarned!

May get fewer visits, but should get some better logs!

+1

 

Traditional caches will get seekers who just show up with nothing more than the GC code (or name) and the coordinates. Even if the cache is technically located at the posted coordinates, if there is any kind of additional twist, then many of those seekers won't be happy.

[+T.D.M.22]

Ok, there are two schools of thought then. Hmm....well, I'll make my decision at time of placement, I guess. Thanks!

 

As you can see, there's 2 options. I think it's mostly regional. Maybe pick one and ask your reviewer when you submit the cache(or before). If the reviewer decides it should be the other way, or if you find out that others in your area do it the other way, it can always be changed. BEFORE publishing that is.

[+Cissy PSP]

Ok, I am leaning towards puzzle because many cachers I know do not read description. That said, I will let my reviewer decide. Thank you!

[+Team Microdot]

What you describe is a traditional cache with a field puzzle.

 

I can see the logic in listing it as a puzzle in order to try to avoid the box being damaged by cachers displeased at having to put in extra effort at GZ just to sign the log - but I don't actually think targeting cachers who like puzzles is going to make a great deal of difference in that regard.

 

I've seen plenty of evidence to indicate that if there's a quicker way to get to the log than that which the CO intended - people will find and make use of it, even if the cache gets damaged in the process.

[+Semper Questio]

Down here that would typically be listed as a puzzle AND use the field puzzle attribute.

[+Cissy PSP]

Decisions, decisions...I'll ask the 2 publishers in my area. Thanks!

[+Harry Dolphin]

In reality almost no geocachers pay attention to 'attributes'. Okay. Maybe 1.1% do. So, yeah, you could get away with that. But when I get there, and find there's a puzzle, I'll wonder why it wasn't listed as a Puzzle Cache. Opening the cache is a puzzle = Puzzle Cache. Yeah. I did considering smashing the cache!

[+Don_J]

It is not a challenge cache-Those are usually a cache that you have to complete certain geocaching tasks, such as find 10 virtuals, attend 12 events.

 

While it is a puzzle cache, it is not an unknown (?) cache. Those caches are usually not at the posted co-ords, you usually have to solve a puzzle to find the co-ords.

 

This cache would be a traditional, but with an attribute of field puzzle, since this is at the posted co-ords.

 

While I certainly agree that its not a challenge, I think the question should it be a field puzzle traditional or an unknown is not entirely known. I have seen both ways many times. I'd probably go with traditional and the field puzzle attribute personally, especially if it requires no outside research or planning, you just need to think or bring the right TOTT.

 

I'd be really frustrated if I hiked 3 miles only to find a puzzle box that I couldn't figure out how to open. I'd probably just smash it with a rock. Well, I wouldn't, but I bet somebody would.

 

If you're going to place a puzzle, use the appropriate cache type which is the one with the blue question mark icon. The type is "Unknown". It's not reserved for just caches where the coordinates are unknown. It's a catch all for caches that divert from the typical traditional cache.

[+Cissy PSP]

It is not a challenge cache-Those are usually a cache that you have to complete certain geocaching tasks, such as find 10 virtuals, attend 12 events.

 

While it is a puzzle cache, it is not an unknown (?) cache. Those caches are usually not at the posted co-ords, you usually have to solve a puzzle to find the co-ords.

 

This cache would be a traditional, but with an attribute of field puzzle, since this is at the posted co-ords.

 

While I certainly agree that its not a challenge, I think the question should it be a field puzzle traditional or an unknown is not entirely known. I have seen both ways many times. I'd probably go with traditional and the field puzzle attribute personally, especially if it requires no outside research or planning, you just need to think or bring the right TOTT.

 

ACK! I'll know who to blame if my box gets smashed! I will probably go with Unknown ? Cache. If the reviewer accepts it, great. Thanks!

 

I'd be really frustrated if I hiked 3 miles only to find a puzzle box that I couldn't figure out how to open. I'd probably just smash it with a rock. Well, I wouldn't, but I bet somebody would.

 

If you're going to place a puzzle, use the appropriate cache type which is the one with the blue question mark icon. The type is "Unknown". It's not reserved for just caches where the coordinates are unknown. It's a catch all for caches that divert from the typical traditional cache.

[+Don_J]

What you describe is a traditional cache with a field puzzle.

 

I can see the logic in listing it as a puzzle in order to try to avoid the box being damaged by cachers displeased at having to put in extra effort at GZ just to sign the log - but I don't actually think targeting cachers who like puzzles is going to make a great deal of difference in that regard.

 

I've seen plenty of evidence to indicate that if there's a quicker way to get to the log than that which the CO intended - people will find and make use of it, even if the cache gets damaged in the process.

 

The code breakers don't own the cache type. It's a "catch all" for any cache that is not traditional in nature. I think the real puzzle type cachers can ignore a cache that says, "The cache is at the posted coordinates", just as easily as the rest of us ignore the one that says, "To solve this you need a WW2 Enigma machine".

[+duncanhoyle]

I guess it's region dependent - if this cache was in the UK then it would have to be a traditional with the field puzzle attribute. I think this changed a couple of years ago. If the cache is at the given coordinates then it's a trad. If you need to go to the given coordinate for some information then it's a multi. If there's nothing at the given coordinate then it's a mystery.

It's easy to get round though - just create a simple puzzle for the sake of it on the cache page!

[+Don_J]

I guess it's region dependent - if this cache was in the UK then it would have to be a traditional with the field puzzle attribute. I think this changed a couple of years ago. If the cache is at the given coordinates then it's a trad. If you need to go to the given coordinate for some information then it's a multi. If there's nothing at the given coordinate then it's a mystery.

It's easy to get round though - just create a simple puzzle for the sake of it on the cache page!

 

So what's a challenge cache where the container is at the listed coordinates?

 

People honestly have to get the word puzzle out of their heads. The title of cache type with the blue question mark icon is "Unknown", not puzzle. The majority of unknown caches are puzzles, but the type itself is still reserved for caches that don't easily fit within the definition of the other cache type.

[+duncanhoyle]

I guess it's region dependent - if this cache was in the UK then it would have to be a traditional with the field puzzle attribute. I think this changed a couple of years ago. If the cache is at the given coordinates then it's a trad. If you need to go to the given coordinate for some information then it's a multi. If there's nothing at the given coordinate then it's a mystery.

It's easy to get round though - just create a simple puzzle for the sake of it on the cache page!

 

So what's a challenge cache where the container is at the listed coordinates?

 

A mystery, same as anywhere else. They have their own guidelines

[+VegasScotty]

Whilst it can be listed as a Traditional with the Field Puzzle attribute, you stand a chance of cachers NOT reading the description and turning up not expecting the puzzle... How do you sign the log? - Break the box!

 

Listed as an Unknown, most cachers will read the description, and be forewarned!

May get fewer visits, but should get some better logs!

 

A couple of local caches are just like this... get there and solve a quick puzzle/game/whatever in order to get the log out. Problem is, they were broken within the first dozen finders. I personally believe if they're solved there, on the spot then they should be traditional. However, having seen a few come and go, by marking them as a puzzle you give the cacher a heads-up that they will need to do something to get the log. Maybe that would keep them from being broken open?