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lumbricus

Archives

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Morning,

one of my other hobbies is "Genealogy".

 

I'm missing a category for all the 'Archives' out there.

 

State archives, diocese/church archives, communal archives, archives for special topcis......

 

Hauptstaatsarchiv Dresden

 

General Archive of the Indies

 

National Archives of Hungary

 

Sudetendeutsches Archiv

 

Staatsarchiv Sigmaringen

 

Staatsarchiv Luzern

 

The National Archives at Boston

 

Staatsarchiv Landshut

 

Staatsarchiv München

 

What do you think,

 

-lumbricus

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I think that before we had children, the future Mama and Daddy Blaster spent too much time in archives -- and not much time since ;) ha ha

 

Many of these archives are found in church office or auxiliary buildings, and courthouses, and most libraries have records now too. Also all LDS temples and churches have at least some archives, given that religion's central tenet of finding ancestors to baptize into the LDS church. Will these be allowed jn this category?

 

All the above (except local-level LDS churches) already have their own WM categories or can be WMd in an existing category.. Except for courthouses, most archives buildings may be somewhat utilitarian.

 

Blasterz LIKE THE IDEA VERY MUCH!! :) We are just asking questions to find the parameters of the category, not to throw cold water on if :)

 

A too-funny near-miss on an auto-correct fail: my iPhone corrected "allowed" to "a crowd" -- the autocorrected sentence would have read, "will these be A CROWD in this category?" :0

 

Uh, I think so!! :lol:

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I like the idea. But a good definition is not trivial.

 

What about company archives?

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Many of these archives are found in church office or auxiliary buildings, and courthouses, and most libraries have records now too. Also all LDS temples and churches have at least some archives, given that religion's central tenet of finding ancestors to baptize into the LDS church. Will these be allowed jn this category?

 

All the above (except local-level LDS churches) already have their own WM categories or can be WMd in an existing category.. Except for courthouses, most archives buildings may be somewhat utilitarian.

 

By profession, I am a family historian, spending five days a week in archival facilities. Excepting storage facilities not open to public and the aforementioned LDS family history centres, the places I frequent would all be covered by other categories.

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Most of the larger archives I know are not covered by any other category. All governmental archives on state of federal level I've seen are dedicated buildings.

 

But there is an overlap on the smaller scale, these are often co-located with other things that have a category.

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I was just thinking about the humorous possibility in confusion of terms.

 

"No, you dolt, it's not an archived waymark; it's an archive waymark!"

 

Ok, I accidentally archived your archive...

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We agree that dedicated Archives buildings are cool and In the US unless they are also on the National register (for example) they don't have a WM home :)

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We agree that dedicated Archives buildings are cool and In the US unless they are also on the National register (for example) they don't have a WM home :)

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We agree that dedicated Archives buildings are cool and In the US unless they are also on the National register (for example) they don't have a WM home :)

And those that are run by historical societies. Many of the ones I know of are call genealogy libraries and are run by local historical societies.

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I had already thought of this idea a few times but never decided to go ahead with it, I think it's a good idea.

Here almost every city has a city archive building, the same way that every city has the building of the city library, and we also have district archives and some national archives.

They can not be placed in any of the existing categories, with the exception of a few that can be placed in the People-Named Places category.

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Also all LDS temples and churches have at least some archives, given that religion's central tenet of finding ancestors to baptize into the LDS church. Will these be allowed jn this category?

 

I just wanted to clarify this point, especially for those who will be approving submissions, as well as, for those who would be submitting waymarks to this category.

 

While it is true that the LDS Church is integrally involved in genealogy and archiving of genealogical records, archives are not kept in LDS Temples; that is not their purpose. Temples are for completing Church ordinances after the archival research has been completed for ancestors. Some LDS Family History Centers are located adjacent to, or nearby, LDS Temples, but none of them are located within a Temple.

 

Likewise, most LDS Churches do not have archives on site either. In the past, there has usually been one Church meeting house where a Family History Center is located, which has been specifically designated to cover an area that encompasses a number of Churches. The number of Churches each Family History Center has served varies, as the density of Churches varies by region. There may still be some Family History Centers located within some Church meeting houses, however, the trend has been to consolidate these small Family History Centers into larger more centralized facilities. This has allowed for them to be housed in larger buildings, with more staff, more resources, and more up to date technology. That transition may or may not be complete for all areas. So, there may be some LDS Churches with archives on site, but some research must be done to determine whether a Family History Center is, in fact, located within a specific LDS Church, as the majority of LDS Churches don't have them.

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I think most of these can be submitted to the Libraries category since archives are just a specialized type of library. In fact, I have a waymark for one of them on your list in that category, Masschusetts Archives

 

So, you might want to check with the leader of the Library category to confirm this before you go too far in working on a new category.

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Also all LDS temples and churches have at least some archives, given that religion's central tenet of finding ancestors to baptize into the LDS church. Will these be allowed jn this category?

 

I just wanted to clarify this point, especially for those who will be approving submissions, as well as, for those who would be submitting waymarks to this category.

 

While it is true that the LDS Church is integrally involved in genealogy and archiving of genealogical records, archives are not kept in LDS Temples; that is not their purpose. Temples are for completing Church ordinances after the archival research has been completed for ancestors. Some LDS Family History Centers are located adjacent to, or nearby, LDS Temples, but none of them are located within a Temple.

 

Thanks for clarifying that -- we appreciate the information. Blasterz meant no offense

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one of my other hobbies is "Genealogy". I'm missing a category for all the 'Archives' out there.

 

...

 

What do you think,

 

Wikipedia says: An archive is an accumulation of historical records, or the physical place they are located.

 

Genealogists seem to be very creative people in where they seek to find information. They'll seek out family information from census records, record offices at cemeteries, town property records, church records, and more. Would these sources be included in genealogy archives?

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Genealogy is just a special case. Archives are much more. The category will not benefit, if it is seen with the eyes of a special interest group.

 

The definition of an archive as a special case of a library is wrong. An archive is not a library. Of course, there are overlaps, also with museums as a third kind of collection, but they are clearly defined and very distinct.

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Hi,

thanks for your feedback!

It will take a few days before I could work on the proposal. I have problems with my Trigeminal nerve. (painful!)

-lumbricus

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Also all LDS temples and churches have at least some archives, given that religion's central tenet of finding ancestors to baptize into the LDS church. Will these be allowed jn this category?

 

I just wanted to clarify this point, especially for those who will be approving submissions, as well as, for those who would be submitting waymarks to this category.

 

While it is true that the LDS Church is integrally involved in genealogy and archiving of genealogical records, archives are not kept in LDS Temples; that is not their purpose. Temples are for completing Church ordinances after the archival research has been completed for ancestors. Some LDS Family History Centers are located adjacent to, or nearby, LDS Temples, but none of them are located within a Temple.

 

Thanks for clarifying that -- we appreciate the information. Blasterz meant no offense

 

 

Absolutely no offense taken. I just wanted to clarify, before LDS Temples and Churches were inadvertently submitted in the category.

 

Sorry, I had to edit this, since somehow I put my response inside your quote, which didn't look right.

Edited by Chasing Blue Sky
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Hi,

thanks for your feedback!

It will take a few days before I could work on the proposal. I have problems with my Trigeminal nerve. (painful!)

-lumbricus

 

:( feel better, friend. This nerve condition can be very disruptive and painful. I hope this episode will pass soon and you will be in remission for a very long time.

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Hi,

thanks for your feedback!

It will take a few days before I could work on the proposal. I have problems with my Trigeminal nerve. (painful!)

-lumbricus

Get well soon! That is NOT fun.

 

Truthfully, I see no need for this category unless it can be demonstrated that a significant number of these sites can NOT be included in the general Libraries category. I don't think we need to start splitting it up into smaller more specialized pieces.

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:( feel better, friend. This nerve condition can be very disruptive and painful. I hope this episode will pass soon and you will be in remission for a very long time.

 

Get well soon! That is NOT fun.

 

Thank you both!

 

Truthfully, I see no need for this category unless it can be demonstrated that a significant number of these sites can NOT be included in the general Libraries category. I don't think we need to start splitting it up into smaller more specialized pieces.

 

I wrote with Colin the BQ, the leader of the libraries category, and he wrote me that archives are totally different to libraries. 99% you are not allowed to borrow papers and documents from the archives. There are many out there, that's sure.

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Morning,

one of my other hobbies is "Genealogy".

 

I'm missing a category for all the 'Archives' out there.

 

State archives, diocese/church archives, communal archives, archives for special topcis......etc

 

What do you think,

 

-lumbricus

 

When I first saw this I thought you were just after a bit more information for your Genealogy interest!

 

The National Library of Australia has more links than you can point a stick at & some of these have actual buildings. State Libraries feature prominently.

 

National Library of Australia: http://www.nla.gov.a...lected-websites

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...When I first saw this I thought you were just after a bit more information for your Genealogy interest!...

 

No, I'm back to 1520. Archives are important for all historic researches. Libraries have music cds, games, belletristic, guidebooks,...... The mainpart of libraries is to find books for your freetime. The are exceptions like university libraries and the local history section in every small library about the town, etc.

 

But if you like to work with the sources, work on something new (not only to copy another book) you have to travel to the special archiv, sometimes the first day is spent only with ordering the stuff you like to have. Then you can sit in a big silent room with other archiv users and work there on your place with the archiv documents. There is normally only allowed a pencil. You are not allowed to bring something to eat or drink with you. In libraries you often have a coffee machine. If you like to copy a site you have to write a copy order for the sites you like to have. It's expensive and you have to wait long for them. (Sometimes up to three weeks, you get the copies by post). To cut a long story short, archives are totally different from libraries.

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To cut a long story short, archives are totally different from libraries.

Well, that depends entirely on what definition of library you use!

 

What we usually think of are "lending libraries." But, that is only one type of library. There are many research libraries that do NOT lend material, and a more like what you describe, but they are still libraries. They may also be called "reference libraries." Many are associated with academic institutions. Another example in the U.S. are the presidential libraries which are generally not lending libraries. Some of these may be called archives, but they are still libraries in the broader sense.

 

Many libraries also have research and reference sections that are non-lending, and may have sections called archives.

 

So, I think it is a challenge to define archives as something distinguished from other types of libraries. In the U.S., for instance, the county court houses all have archives of public records. But, I don't think any one would want to include them. Many other government institutions or branches have archives of important records. (Genealogists often consult these.)

 

Now, if the existing category will accept ONLY lending libraries, then I think the category should be renamed. But, as I've illustrated, they have in the past accepted waymarks for libraries bearing the name "archives."

 

If the types of places you have in mind truly do NOT have a place in an existing category, AND you can create a sufficiently clear definition to distinguish them from similar institutions, then I think there is a good case for a new category.

 

Oh, there is a good discussion of the definition of "library" in the Libraries Magazine

 

You can also see the Wikipedia article on libraries for a good overview of library types.

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To confuse things further I have found in many towns around here they have was is called a "genealogy library" which are truly archives. They often have church birth, marriage, and death records, old county land records, and cemetery records. Most often their records are local in scope however are often the best/only source for some of the information they contain.

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Lots of good discussion :)

 

Pardon us if we asked this before-- it is early and before coffee.

 

Is this proposed category an Architecture category or a Function category?

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...Is this proposed category an Architecture category or a Function category?

 

Early? 5:03p.m. :laughing:

 

It's more a function category, go out and find an archiv. If the building is great, than it's double perfect. But the category description will be hard to write!

 

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm still thinking about the whole thing.

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0620 is early for me -

 

II have children who can get themselves out of bed -- out the door ON TIME is another matter entirely!!!!

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"Ein Archiv hat die Aufgabe, das bei seinem Träger aufgrund von dessen Tätigkeit erwachsene und für den laufenden Geschäftsbetrieb nicht mehr benötigte Schrift-, Bild- und Tongut zu übernehmen, sicher zu verwahren und in benützbarer Form zu erhalten, soweit es aufgrund seines historischen, rechtlichen, wissenschaftlich-technischen oder künstlerischen Quellenwerts zu dauernder Aufbewahrung bestimmt wird. Die Auswahl dieser archivwürdigen Unterlagen, das heißt ihre Bewertung, erfolgt durch das Archiv.

 

Der Inhalt eines Archivs – das Archivgut – hat grundsätzlich Unikatcharakter,... Damit unterscheidet sich Archivgut grundsätzlich vom Sammlungsgut der Bibliotheken und Museen." http://www.archive-in-bayern.de/server/content_ueber_01_was-ist-archiv.shtml

 

The contents of an archive have always unique character [/ b] ... Thus differs fundamentally from the archival collection items of libraries and museums. http://www.archive-in-bayern.de/server/content_ueber_01_was-ist-archiv.shtml

 

"Mit ihren vielfältigen und in der Regel nur einmal überlieferten Schrift-, Bild- und Tondokumenten, neuerdings auch digitalen Unterlagen, sind die Archive wichtige Informationsspeicher und Kompetenzzentren für Fragen an die Vergangenheit." http://www.archive-in-bayern.de/server/index.html

 

With their diverse and usually only once existing text, image and sound documents, ... the archives are important centers for information storage and issues of the past.

 

Here we have links to Bavarian archives:

 

http://www.archive-in-bayern.de/cgi-bin/cgi-local/archive-in-bayern/karte.cgi?REGBEZ=Oberbayern&ORDERBY=ORT&templ=vorlage_content_aib_karte_08_oberbayern

 

http://www.archive-in-bayern.de/cgi-bin/cgi-local/archive-in-bayern/karte.cgi?REGBEZ=Niederbayern&ORDERBY=ORT&templ=vorlage_content_aib_karte_06_niederbayern

 

http://www.archive-in-bayern.de/cgi-bin/cgi-local/archive-in-bayern/karte.cgi?REGBEZ=Schwaben&ORDERBY=ORT&templ=vorlage_content_aib_karte_07_schwaben

 

http://www.archive-in-bayern.de/cgi-bin/cgi-local/archive-in-bayern/karte.cgi?REGBEZ=Oberpfalz&ORDERBY=ORT&templ=vorlage_content_aib_karte_05_oberpfalz

 

...

 

Archive in Baden-Württemberg

 

http://www.archive-bw.de/sixcms/list.php?page=seite_liste_archivnamen&sv[rel19]=10092&_sparte=Staatsarchiv

 

So for Germany this is a very good collection of archives:

 

http://www.archivschule.de/service/archive-im-internet/archive-in-deutschland/archivportale/regionale-archivportale-im-internet.html

 

What if we define an archive with the following main point:

 

Unique archive documents (libraries often have the same books/etc..., even you are not allowed to borrow the book, you will mostly find the things in some other places)

 

Perhaps our archives are different to the US archives? But I think in Europe the structures are relativ equal.

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I think it is the same in the US-- I like the specific unique collections descriptor. Now I can identify which library will qualify as an archive and can make a qualifying submission. :)

 

Under that description, the LBJ Library will qualify, and the Austin Public Library will not. The University of Texas Perry-Castaneda Library and the Barker Texas History Center will qualify, while the Undergraduate Library will not. No confusion! :) :) :)

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Nachtrag:

 

"So handelt es sich bei Archivalien typischerweise um Akten, die in der Regel Unikate sind - im Unterschied zur Bibliothek, deren Bücher je nach Vertrieb und Auflagenhöhe mehr oder weniger bequem auch woanders zu bekommen sind [1].

 

[1] Selbstverständlich verwahren zahlreiche Bibliotheken Handschriften oder andere Unikate, und die Archive enthalten viele Drucke und "Bücher" - aber dieser Leitfaden stellt die generelle Linie vor, den Regelfall, das Charakteristikum, und nie die letzte abwegige Ausnahme." http://www.historicum.net/lehren-lernen/archiveinfuehrung/was-ist-ein-archiv/

 

-----

 

Addendum:

 

So archival materials typically are unique in general - as opposed to the library, whose books are also easy to get more or less depending on the sales and circulation elsewhere [1].

 

[1] Of course, many libraries keep manuscripts and other unique handwritings and the archives contain many prints and "books"- but this guideline sets out the general outline, the standard case, the characteristic, and not the outlandish exception.

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Also all LDS temples and churches have at least some archives, given that religion's central tenet of finding ancestors to baptize into the LDS church. Will these be allowed jn this category?

 

Likewise, most LDS Churches do not have archives on site either. In the past, there has usually been one Church meeting house where a Family History Center is located, which has been specifically designated to cover an area that encompasses a number of Churches. The number of Churches each Family History Center has served varies, as the density of Churches varies by region. There may still be some Family History Centers located within some Church meeting houses, however, the trend has been to consolidate these small Family History Centers into larger more centralized facilities. This has allowed for them to be housed in larger buildings, with more staff, more resources, and more up to date technology. That transition may or may not be complete for all areas. So, there may be some LDS Churches with archives on site, but some research must be done to determine whether a Family History Center is, in fact, located within a specific LDS Church, as the majority of LDS Churches don't have them.

 

I recall a genealogy center I went to in Melbourne was inside an LDS church. Which category might this fall into? LDS churches other than temples do not presently have a category. The building may not be totally dedicated to genealogy/archival purposes, but perhaps only a wing of the building. Just waymark the wing? Or not at all?

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Also all LDS temples and churches have at least some archives, given that religion's central tenet of finding ancestors to baptize into the LDS church. Will these be allowed jn this category?

 

Likewise, most LDS Churches do not have archives on site either. In the past, there has usually been one Church meeting house where a Family History Center is located, which has been specifically designated to cover an area that encompasses a number of Churches. The number of Churches each Family History Center has served varies, as the density of Churches varies by region. There may still be some Family History Centers located within some Church meeting houses, however, the trend has been to consolidate these small Family History Centers into larger more centralized facilities. This has allowed for them to be housed in larger buildings, with more staff, more resources, and more up to date technology. That transition may or may not be complete for all areas. So, there may be some LDS Churches with archives on site, but some research must be done to determine whether a Family History Center is, in fact, located within a specific LDS Church, as the majority of LDS Churches don't have them.

 

I recall a genealogy center I went to in Melbourne was inside an LDS church. Which category might this fall into? LDS churches other than temples do not presently have a category. The building may not be totally dedicated to genealogy/archival purposes, but perhaps only a wing of the building. Just waymark the wing? Or not at all?

 

You are correct, some LDS Churches still do have Family History Centers within the building. The trend is to remove them from the Churches and centralize them in locations that are better suited for the purposes of a genealogical library. No doubt there are many LDS Churches throughout the world that still do, and probably will have, Family History Centers within them for quite some time.

 

My main point is that while some LDS Churches have Family History Centers, the vast majority do not. I was concerned that when a new category is created that covers these, that there not be an assumption that any LDS Church qualifies for the category. There needs to be some research done, or proof that this specific LDS Church has a Family History Center on site. Those that do, usually have information on at least one of the entrances that specify times that they are open and available to the public. As these Family History Centers inside LDS Churches are staffed by volunteers, the times that these centers are open is limited. Some are available only one night a week, for a few hours, while some may be open a couple nights a week.

 

OK, that was a long version of answering your question. The answer to your question is that I would recommend Waymarking the entire building. Unless you happen to stop there during the hours the Family History Center is open, or you are there during services on Sunday when the building is open, there is no way of knowing in what part of the building it is located. I think that would be consistent with other buildings that house archives, even if they only inhabit a part of the building, the building itself should be waymarked; not just he third floor, for example.

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