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"What the game once was"


nthacker66
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Was talking with a cacher friend of mine about the old 1k tribute caches in our area. How creative, time consuming and clever they are/were. As she put it , a time past to what the game once was.

 

I couldn' agree more. I remember when I left the game for a couple of years, prior to "powertrails" peoples numbers were not ridiculously high. 1 - 3k was about normal. When I came back, just in 2 years, 10 and 12K was the new "1k" And of course powertrails was the new things.

 

Now again, I am not knokcing powertrails, nor how anyone wishes to play the game. That isn't the intention of my post. I am just reminiscent of a the day when I first came to the game (albeit early 2008, it was still not quite a crazy numbers game) the quality of caches was so much better. I loo back at a pq I ran and lament over some of the ones I did and still want to do and just wonder why this game transformed into chasing a never ending "sideways 8" to boast numbers amongst circles of people who really don't care?

 

Anyway, here is a list of multis near me that deserve to be mentioned, less emphasis on the power numbers more focus on what quality cahing is:

 

http://coord.info/GCKPMP

 

http://coord.info/GCKPMP

 

http://coord.info/GCH8MY

 

http://coord.info/GC1NEFP

Edited by nthacker66
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As this is the area local to me, I will comment.

 

Not sure of your point, those caches are still active and plenty of creative caches still coming out here. I'm still amazed by seeing new ideas.

 

There are also "numbers" hides coming out as well.. so find what you want to find. I'm still spoiled for choice in this area (same area as you), I love the diversity.

 

I also went to a couple of new 1K multis last year in the same area, nice long hikes.

 

The 1K caches are still being hidden, and even a smattering of 1k events usually organized by the cacher's caching friends.

 

Nothing stopping other folks in hiding 1K caches for their friends, the game IS what YOU make it.

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The game is what you make it.

 

:)

 

Agreed. and i try to make it about quality not quantity. just wish there was more enthusiasm behind the former and less behind the latter.

 

I disagree with the notion that "the games is what you make it" as if those that prefer quantity over quality is somehow equal to those the prefer quality over quantity.

 

If someone prefers quantity, a few quality caches in the area has very little impact on how they play the game. However, if someone prefer quality, a large number low quality caches has a much greater impact on how they play the game simply because a large number of caches takes up most of the real estate that could be used for anything else.

 

It's easy for the numbers cacher to claim "we can all play the game how we want" when how others play the game has very little negative impact on they play the game. The same can't be said for those that want to find high quality caches when the area is saturated with caches which only seem to exist to give numbers cachers the opportunity to increase their find count.

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I doubt those 10K numbers have more that 10% powertrails, if that, so I don't think you can say powertrails are the cause. Generally, most of the big number cachers here in the SF bay area aren't making those number by doing piddly caches. They mainly seem to be doing it by caching a lot. Most of them travel extensively to find fresh meat, and many of them are retired, leaving them free to cache long hours every day, if they want to.

 

I've only been caching a couple years, but from what I've seen, I doubt there's been a serious quality change over the years. What has changed is the density, just as you'd expect as the sport becomes more popular. And, of course, more caches are easier to get to, so that admittedly helps. That's about the only change in the caches themselves that has much to do with higher numbers.

 

Anyway, even from when I first started, the 1K celebration caches were amusing anachronisms. There's no question caching has changed since then, but I don't see anything negative about how it's changed.

 

I'm not sure what you'd accept as a counter to your list. Excellent new multis are published all the time in my area. I guess that's not the case where you are, and I feel sorry for you, but I don't think that's proof that geocaching has gone to heck in a handbasket.

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The game is what you make it.

 

:)

 

Agreed. and i try to make it about quality not quantity. just wish there was more enthusiasm behind the former and less behind the latter.

 

I disagree with the notion that "the games is what you make it" as if those that prefer quantity over quality is somehow equal to those the prefer quality over quantity.

 

If someone prefers quantity, a few quality caches in the area has very little impact on how they play the game. However, if someone prefer quality, a large number low quality caches has a much greater impact on how they play the game simply because a large number of caches takes up most of the real estate that could be used for anything else.

 

It's easy for the numbers cacher to claim "we can all play the game how we want" when how others play the game has very little negative impact on they play the game. The same can't be said for those that want to find high quality caches when the area is saturated with caches which only seem to exist to give numbers cachers the opportunity to increase their find count.

Nobody said that the quality/ quantity was equal. They just said " the game is what you make it" kinda like " if you're not having fun you have nobody to blame but yourself". The quality game is ALWAYS going to be here to play, that game just takes a little more work to play.("the game is what you make it") :D

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The game is what you make it.

 

:)

 

Agreed. and i try to make it about quality not quantity. just wish there was more enthusiasm behind the former and less behind the latter.

 

I disagree with the notion that "the games is what you make it" as if those that prefer quantity over quality is somehow equal to those the prefer quality over quantity.

 

If someone prefers quantity, a few quality caches in the area has very little impact on how they play the game. However, if someone prefer quality, a large number low quality caches has a much greater impact on how they play the game simply because a large number of caches takes up most of the real estate that could be used for anything else.

 

It's easy for the numbers cacher to claim "we can all play the game how we want" when how others play the game has very little negative impact on they play the game. The same can't be said for those that want to find high quality caches when the area is saturated with caches which only seem to exist to give numbers cachers the opportunity to increase their find count.

Nobody said that the quality/ quantity was equal. They just said " the game is what you make it" kinda like " if you're not having fun you have nobody to blame but yourself".

 

So if a bunch of people completely saturate an area with the type of caches I don't enjoy finding, it's somehow my fault for enjoying the game less because I'm more discriminating about the types of caches I want to find?

 

The quality game is ALWAYS going to be here to play, that game just takes a little more work to play.("the game is what you make it") :D

 

Why should it require more work for someone that wants to play the game by finding quality caches than those that just want to rack up numbers?

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Why should it require more work for someone that wants to play the game by finding quality caches than those that just want to rack up numbers?
It always takes more work to be discriminating. If you just want to satisfy your hunger, then it's easy to find someplace to get food. If you want a better dining experience, then you need to put in the effort to be more selective.

 

Of course, where the analogy breaks down is that trails of identical, interchangeable fast-food joints, each 528ft/161m from its neighbor, can't crowd out the Michelin star restaurants.

 

But I recall a post by Markwell (which I couldn't find, unfortunately) where he analyzed historical cache data in his area. He found that although the caches he wanted to look for had become a smaller fraction of the total number of caches, the absolute number of desirable caches was still increasing faster than he could find them.

 

But that was before modern numbers run trails. That kind of saturation is relatively new, and if you're unfortunate enough to live near such a numbers run trail, you will find the numbers run trail crowding more desirable caches out of your PQ data. And I'm sure there are some desirable locations that are blocked by their proximity to a numbers run trail.

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Change is inevitable. Geocaching is very different from how it was when I started in 2002. From my viewpoint, some things are better and some things are worse.

 

What I think people are trying to say with the phrase "the game is what you make it" is that our attitude can have a big effect on how we enjoy the game. We can choose to focus on those things that have changed for the worse, or we can adapt the way we play to take advantage of the ways it has gotten better to keep it enjoyable.

 

My caching style has changed a lot over the years as I have tried to adapt to changes in the game. I used to try to keep a certain radius around my home "clear" of caches. In the early days, that was a lot of fun. But as the numbers grew, it got tedious and so I gave it up.

 

A friend gave me the best advice on this that I have ever heard. He said:"Caches are like a river. You can't drink it all, but you can choose where to sip, and there will always be more."

 

That's great advice. I am caching now at almost exactly the rate at which I cached in the early years, but now I am very picky about which caches I do. The good side of all the changes is that there are so many more caches available now that there are always many more good caches than I will ever be able to find.

 

There have been a lot of improvements in the site that make it easier to locate the good caches. Favorite points, better PQs, caches along a route, corrected coords, user notes, etc. have all gotten better since I started. So I use them to locate the kinds of caches I will enjoy. I've got a pretty good system.

 

Right now, I am onto a kick of finding caches that have not been found for a substantial amount of time. Turns out that these caches often provide a memorable experience in solving a puzzle, getting to, or finding. Because there are so many easy caches now, they get the huge majority of finds, and some real gems get neglected.

 

Are there changes that I find annoying? You bet. But that's life. Change is ever all good or all bad. But it's inevitable.

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If you don't like power trails don't do them.don't bitch about them. My best time caching was on the e.t highway caches boring the whole experience was awesome. a p&g cache is just as fun as nice hike. I like creative caches the ones the owner built them selfs. So who has the most numbers in your state? But I bet you don't know who cares who's number 367...

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Why should it require more work for someone that wants to play the game by finding quality caches than those that just want to rack up numbers?
It always takes more work to be discriminating. If you just want to satisfy your hunger, then it's easy to find someplace to get food. If you want a better dining experience, then you need to put in the effort to be more selective.

 

And I understand that being more discriminating requires more work to seek out the kind of caches I want to find. I'm talking about instances where how one way to play the game (caching for the numbers) has a direct impact on how someone else wants to play the game. Those that feel that a proliferation of interchangeable fast-food caches have negatively impacted might feel they have a legitimate complaint, while those that are not impacted by a smaller number of "quality" caches just dismiss those complaints by saying "everyone can play the game their own way". If a numbers cacher had their local area saturated with D4 puzzle and mystery caches and multi-stage multis to the point that their number of finds per month were significantly reduced, perhaps they'd understand that how some play the game can impact their fun.

 

 

 

Of course, where the analogy breaks down is that trails of identical, interchangeable fast-food joints, each 528ft/161m from its neighbor, can't crowd out the Michelin star restaurants.

 

But I recall a post by Markwell (which I couldn't find, unfortunately) where he analyzed historical cache data in his area. He found that although the caches he wanted to look for had become a smaller fraction of the total number of caches, the absolute number of desirable caches was still increasing faster than he could find them.

 

But that was before modern numbers run trails. That kind of saturation is relatively new, and if you're unfortunate enough to live near such a numbers run trail, you will find the numbers run trail crowding more desirable caches out of your PQ data. And I'm sure there are some desirable locations that are blocked by their proximity to a numbers run trail.

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The game is what you make it.

 

:)

 

Agreed. and i try to make it about quality not quantity. just wish there was more enthusiasm behind the former and less behind the latter.

 

I disagree with the notion that "the games is what you make it" as if those that prefer quantity over quality is somehow equal to those the prefer quality over quantity.

 

If someone prefers quantity, a few quality caches in the area has very little impact on how they play the game. However, if someone prefer quality, a large number low quality caches has a much greater impact on how they play the game simply because a large number of caches takes up most of the real estate that could be used for anything else.

 

It's easy for the numbers cacher to claim "we can all play the game how we want" when how others play the game has very little negative impact on they play the game. The same can't be said for those that want to find high quality caches when the area is saturated with caches which only seem to exist to give numbers cachers the opportunity to increase their find count.

Nobody said that the quality/ quantity was equal. They just said " the game is what you make it" kinda like " if you're not having fun you have nobody to blame but yourself".

 

So if a bunch of people completely saturate an area with the type of caches I don't enjoy finding, it's somehow my fault for enjoying the game less because I'm more discriminating about the types of caches I want to find?

 

The quality game is ALWAYS going to be here to play, that game just takes a little more work to play.("the game is what you make it") :D

 

Why should it require more work for someone that wants to play the game by finding quality caches than those that just want to rack up numbers?

Of course it's your fault because that's the game you want to play. This type of game play will require more work because it all boils down to how you want to play the game. Since there are more quantity caches it will require you more work to find those quality caches. It's just the way it is. Going back to the saying "the game is what you make it". :D

 

I like niraDs' post about how Markwell said that there are more quality caches out there then there was in the good ole days.

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If you don't like power trails don't do them.don't bitch about them. My best time caching was on the e.t highway caches boring the whole experience was awesome. a p&g cache is just as fun as nice hike. I like creative caches the ones the owner built them selfs. So who has the most numbers in your state? But I bet you don't know who cares who's number 367...

 

I wasn't "bitching" - I was merely remembering a time before power trail saturation. These are forums where we discuss geocaching, is it not? I figured I would start a topic to discuss an aspect of geocaching (and pleae hold back the 'but this has been talked about befofe' - because my response to that is 'yes, so has the greatest QB's in football, but that doesn't stop the discussion')

 

One thing I am saying though is nobody can deny the focus on numbers has increased dramatically over the past year or so. Yes, I get the ET highway, I get the cute little locomotive engine, the skull and crossbones, etc. Those look nice on a map and if you wish to find 1000 caches in a day, your choice. But my personal opinion is, it exhausts and diminishes the sports quality. And it is just not my thing. Nor was I ever asking for advice - i do choose where I sip the water from the river, I do play the game how I want, and it is what I make it.

 

And I will continue to come here to discuss it.

Edited by nthacker66
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Nobody said that the quality/ quantity was equal. They just said " the game is what you make it" kinda like " if you're not having fun you have nobody to blame but yourself". The quality game is ALWAYS going to be here to play, that game just takes a little more work to play.("the game is what you make it") :D

 

lets reword that to the way that quote would read if GS would turn back the clock and reinstate the old guideline of you shouldn't hide a cache every 528 feet just because you can.

 

if you're not having fun you have nobody to blame but yourself". The quantity game is ALWAYS going to be here to play, that game just takes a little more work to play.("the game is what you make it") :D

 

Why should those of us that miss the way the game use to be more about Quality over Quantity have to be the one that work harder to enjoy the game. If things would have stayed the way they were back in the old days of caching when the guidelines stated that you shouldn't hide a cache every 528 feet just because you could. The game would still be the same but those that played for numbers would just have t work a little harder to keep those numbers climbing at the rate they do now.

 

I would still like to see GS make find counts private and see if power trails are still as popular as they are now. think of all the numbers people that would be in here crying if that ever happened.

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To the "Quality over Quantity" crowd:

 

I can't believe how often I hear people complain that the game for them is completely negatively affected by power trails or "numbers" caches. Then they vehemently cry that it's the caches' fault that they feel that way, and by extension then, it's the hiders of such caches' fault that the game is ruined for them.

 

Say you are one of these individuals, for whom the game is hopelessly degraded and possibly even ruined because of "numbers" hides.

 

Let's pretend, for a moment, that the ONLY caches you knew about, the ONLY caches that you were able to find, ever, were quality, excellent hides, as defined by your criteria exclusively. Let's pretend that you are totally unaware that any other type of cache even exists. They are all still there, but you have no idea. Suddenly, you find that the game is awesome for you again. You love caching, and you once more feel a warm, delightful bond of brotherhood (sisterhood) with the cachers who have risked life and limb to place extraordinary, challenging hides JUST FOR YOU. All the righteous angst you have toward the selfish, hurtful actions of those dirty numbers cachers is completely gone, as if it never existed.

 

So.

 

Notice how, in order to be happy again, you just had to ignore those mean ol' numbers hides and power trails - just put them out of mind? Well, here's the secret: You can do this any time you want!! Find a happy place inside where numbers caches don't exist for you. Those bad numbers caches you hate don't exist there! They can't hurt you anymore. I mean, they don't actively involve themselves in your life or hobbies. They don't have legs... they don't move, they don't have minds... they don't think for themselves. They are inanimate plastic/metal/wood/glass objects with no purpose other than to sit somewhere, out of sight.

 

I guess the point is.... there is no external force "ruining" geocaching for you when it comes to other peoples' hides. I honestly don't know why you think that there is. Saturation is only a problem if the saturation prevents you from getting caches that you want.

 

If you complain about how it's "NOT A NUMBERS GAME!111!!11!!" I think it's probably, maybe deep down somewhere, a numbers game for you. Else why would you complain about it? Listen. I'd bet a thousand bucks that NO ONE has come to you in your entire caching career, shook their head and stared at you in abject pity over your numbers. No one cares if you have 500 or 5,000. Really. No one. Not a soul... except maybe for YOU.

Edited by MastahMatt
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To me, it is not a matter of whether "everybody can play the game the way they want," but whether the game as it now stands can hold my interest much longer.

 

The things that brought me into this game are few and far between. To be fair, they were probably few and far between back then, but they weren't so obscured. At that time, cache placements were something to look forward to finding -- not for the thrill of putting three initials on a log, but because they would take me places I had not been, show me old places in a new light, and sometimes just make me smile. There was a sense of adventure.

 

I remember shaking my head in wonder the first time I saw a cache with a description that the container was being placed in a parking lot because there were only a few other caches in that area. Now that seems to be closer to the norm. I remember finding my first micro in the woods and thinking it was a too bad that something else could not have been done, but now people tend to place what is easy.

 

Yes, I can play the game as I like. For me, that has meant not bothering with a pq before making a trip (with the possible exception of one that focuses on virtuals, earthcaches, and a few other nontraditional icons). It has meant spending two or three days along the ET highway, but not doing one repetitive cache. And not caring about the latest cache to be placed in a shopping center near home.

 

To be sure, there are "old school" caches out there. Even a micro in the city can take me past street art, help me discover an abandoned building, or show me some of the legends, lore, or history of the area. And I still discover an occasional ammo can on top of a hill or out in the woods. But it hardly seems worth it anymore to make a focus out of caching. There is too much stuff in the way and other things I can do to find the adventures. Perhaps I am just getting tired and things will change. Perhaps the game itself has changed. I'm still wondering.

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But I recall a post by Markwell (which I couldn't find, unfortunately) where he analyzed historical cache data in his area. He found that although the caches he wanted to look for had become a smaller fraction of the total number of caches, the absolute number of desirable caches was still increasing faster than he could find them.

 

 

I choose to remember that geocaching started deep in the woods and moved it's way out. It didn't start in parking lots and then to find "just somewhere" to place a cache you had to go off-trail but I do have to wonder if new cachers see that.

 

 

 

bd

Edited by BlueDeuce
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I disagree with the notion that "the games is what you make it" as if those that prefer quantity over quality is somehow equal to those the prefer quality over quantity.

 

(Rest of quote deleted for space)

 

Agreed 100% with everything you said.

I think the spirit of geocaching has been lost.

There certainly has been some changes since the early days. And I've no doubt that some of the early adopters might prefer things they way they were. But I haven't any clue what the spirit of geocaching is or how it got lost. I would think the spirit of geocaching would use a GPS. Perhaps it followed it to appeal to a broader audience (even if it means losing some early fans).

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I would still like to see GS make find counts private and see if power trails are still as popular as they are now. think of all the numbers people that would be in here crying if that ever happened.

 

Competition is a great motivator. We would probably lose most of our geocachers in the process, which means less income for the website. To be fair, that money is what has driven this site to be so incredibly user-friendly. You can see the effect of successful cash flow on the way this machine works.

 

Alternatively, without the public find count, there would be only people like you and me, who just want to find a box of goodies every now and then, some nice box in an interesting place. We're like wine connoisseurs; I'm surprised we don't sniff the lid when we open the cache (Ah, 2006. That was a good year). Contrast that to the beer-bong geocachers, who don't care about quality; they just want as much of the stuff as they can get, as fast as they can get it. I still like to think I might be out to find something special. Perhaps I'm being naive. I do think, though, that the only thing that could motivate the site to drive us back from the current state of things is if it leads to a loss of revenue, and so far I don't see that happening...yet. Then, again, my foresight tends to be slightly worse than a coin toss, so don't take my word for it.

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Nobody said that the quality/ quantity was equal. They just said " the game is what you make it" kinda like " if you're not having fun you have nobody to blame but yourself". The quality game is ALWAYS going to be here to play, that game just takes a little more work to play.("the game is what you make it") :D

 

lets reword that to the way that quote would read if GS would turn back the clock and reinstate the old guideline of you shouldn't hide a cache every 528 feet just because you can.

 

if you're not having fun you have nobody to blame but yourself". The quantity game is ALWAYS going to be here to play, that game just takes a little more work to play.("the game is what you make it") :D

 

Why should those of us that miss the way the game use to be more about Quality over Quantity have to be the one that work harder to enjoy the game. If things would have stayed the way they were back in the old days of caching when the guidelines stated that you shouldn't hide a cache every 528 feet just because you could. The game would still be the same but those that played for numbers would just have t work a little harder to keep those numbers climbing at the rate they do now.

 

I would still like to see GS make find counts private and see if power trails are still as popular as they are now. think of all the numbers people that would be in here crying if that ever happened.

The thing is you cant turn back the clock and power trails are here to stay. Some players like them and will travel from far away places to hit them. It's just the way it is. I guess if you don't want to work harder to play your game you can always just sit back and talk about how it used to be. Or you can just go out and play your game and talk about how it is still like the good ole days.

 

I no longer cache like i did a year ago. Now I'm picky as to what I look for. I mostly go for hiking, 4x4 trails and the power trails. I have the best time with my friends laughing, telling jokes, having lunch and a beer after a long day on a power trail. To me on a power trail it's not about the caches, it's the stories that come with the trails. And man do I have some funny stories. Some of the guys I cache with are in their late 50s and early 60s and they are great guys. :D

 

So I just take this game for what it is...FUN. This game is what you make it. :D

Edited by the4dirtydogs
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To the "Quality over Quantity" crowd:

 

I can't believe how often I hear people complain that the game for them is completely negatively affected by power trails or "numbers" caches. Then they vehemently cry that it's the caches' fault that they feel that way, and by extension then, it's the hiders of such caches' fault that the game is ruined for them.

 

Say you are one of these individuals, for whom the game is hopelessly degraded and possibly even ruined because of "numbers" hides.

 

Let's pretend, for a moment, that the ONLY caches you knew about, the ONLY caches that you were able to find, ever, were quality, excellent hides, as defined by your criteria exclusively. Let's pretend that you are totally unaware that any other type of cache even exists. They are all still there, but you have no idea. Suddenly, you find that the game is awesome for you again. You love caching, and you once more feel a warm, delightful bond of brotherhood (sisterhood) with the cachers who have risked life and limb to place extraordinary, challenging hides JUST FOR YOU. All the righteous angst you have toward the selfish, hurtful actions of those dirty numbers cachers is completely gone, as if it never existed.

 

So.

 

Notice how, in order to be happy again, you just had to ignore those mean ol' numbers hides and power trails - just put them out of mind? Well, here's the secret: You can do this any time you want!! Find a happy place inside where numbers caches don't exist for you. Those bad numbers caches you hate don't exist there! They can't hurt you anymore. I mean, they don't actively involve themselves in your life or hobbies. They don't have legs... they don't move, they don't have minds... they don't think for themselves. They are inanimate plastic/metal/wood/glass objects with no purpose other than to sit somewhere, out of sight.

 

I guess the point is.... there is no external force "ruining" geocaching for you when it comes to other peoples' hides. I honestly don't know why you think that there is. Saturation is only a problem if the saturation prevents you from getting caches that you want.

 

If you complain about how it's "NOT A NUMBERS GAME!111!!11!!" I think it's probably, maybe deep down somewhere, a numbers game for you. Else why would you complain about it? Listen. I'd bet a thousand bucks that NO ONE has come to you in your entire caching career, shook their head and stared at you in abject pity over your numbers. No one cares if you have 500 or 5,000. Really. No one. Not a soul... except maybe for YOU.

I really like this post. :D

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I think the spirit of geocaching has been lost.

...I haven't any clue what the spirit of geocaching is or how it got lost. I would think the spirit of geocaching would use a GPS.

I tried to point this out in another recent discussion where the unspecified "spirit of geocaching" kept getting mentioned without a definition. According to the original newsgroup messages about the creation of the "GPS Stash Hunt" (as geocaching was originally called), the intent was simply to "take advantage of the wonderful features and capability of a gps unit". As long as you're using the capabilities of your GPS unit, you're still following "the spirit of geocaching".

 

A humorous aside that I stumbled upon while reading some of those early newsgroup messages...

In Dave Ulmer's second message where he was contemplating half-burying a bucket, he said "I'll look for a place near a road where few people would normally go...". Little did he know what he was going to do to that poor bend on South Fellows Road!

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To the "Quality over Quantity" crowd:

 

I can't believe how often I hear people complain that the game for them is completely negatively affected by power trails or "numbers" caches. Then they vehemently cry that it's the caches' fault that they feel that way, and by extension then, it's the hiders of such caches' fault that the game is ruined for them.

 

Say you are one of these individuals, for whom the game is hopelessly degraded and possibly even ruined because of "numbers" hides.

 

Let's pretend, for a moment, that the ONLY caches you knew about, the ONLY caches that you were able to find, ever, were quality, excellent hides, as defined by your criteria exclusively. Let's pretend that you are totally unaware that any other type of cache even exists. They are all still there, but you have no idea. Suddenly, you find that the game is awesome for you again. You love caching, and you once more feel a warm, delightful bond of brotherhood (sisterhood) with the cachers who have risked life and limb to place extraordinary, challenging hides JUST FOR YOU. All the righteous angst you have toward the selfish, hurtful actions of those dirty numbers cachers is completely gone, as if it never existed.

 

So.

 

Notice how, in order to be happy again, you just had to ignore those mean ol' numbers hides and power trails - just put them out of mind? Well, here's the secret: You can do this any time you want!! Find a happy place inside where numbers caches don't exist for you. Those bad numbers caches you hate don't exist there! They can't hurt you anymore. I mean, they don't actively involve themselves in your life or hobbies. They don't have legs... they don't move, they don't have minds... they don't think for themselves. They are inanimate plastic/metal/wood/glass objects with no purpose other than to sit somewhere, out of sight.

 

I guess the point is.... there is no external force "ruining" geocaching for you when it comes to other peoples' hides. I honestly don't know why you think that there is. Saturation is only a problem if the saturation prevents you from getting caches that you want.

 

If you complain about how it's "NOT A NUMBERS GAME!111!!11!!" I think it's probably, maybe deep down somewhere, a numbers game for you. Else why would you complain about it? Listen. I'd bet a thousand bucks that NO ONE has come to you in your entire caching career, shook their head and stared at you in abject pity over your numbers. No one cares if you have 500 or 5,000. Really. No one. Not a soul... except maybe for YOU.

I really like this post. :D

 

It's okay. However I'd like to see it used as an argument for the many things gc.com denies as being a cache. It seems like a 'because they can' point of view. At least to me.

 

I forgot to mention I'll take that bet given the threads about having to have found a set number of caches before being allowed to place a cache. Add on top of that the complaint having more forums posts than cache finds.

 

A thousand bucks means I'm going to have one heck of a Christmas!

Edited by BlueDeuce
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What I think people are trying to say with the phrase "the game is what you make it" is that our attitude can have a big effect on how we enjoy the game. We can choose to focus on those things that have changed for the worse, or we can adapt the way we play to take advantage of the ways it has gotten better to keep it enjoyable.

 

I agree that adaption is necessary, but I do not agree that this always will be possible in a positive way. For example, I enjoyed attended events back then: The number of participants was small, the groups were much more homogeneous than now and less geocaching-focused with respect to the topics one talked about during the events. I have given up to attend events as I do not enjoy them any longer. Recently I met a few old-timers at a restaurant and realized that this brought back the old feeling - so it is still there, but not at the gc.com events with its masses and lots of people I do not want to meet.

 

I am caching now at almost exactly the rate at which I cached in the early years, but now I am very picky about which caches I do. The good side of all the changes is that there are so many more caches available now that there are always many more good caches than I will ever be able to find.

 

In my case there are not more caches that match my preferences very well than say in 2005, but actually less. There are not many many more caches that are both reachable for me and please me than I will ever be able to find. So I rely on visiting many caches that I would not visit if I had other choices which fitted my preferences better. My problem does not come from the work that is required to filter out those caches that meet my preferences well, but rather that visiting a cache that I do not enjoy is still better for me from my perspective than staying at home and sitting around and not being physically active which happens all too often when I do not have the extra bit of motivation to go outdoors, in particular not on days where I feel bad.

 

There have been a lot of improvements in the site that make it easier to locate the good caches. Favorite points, better PQs, caches along a route, corrected coords, user notes, etc. have all gotten better since I started. So I use them to locate the kinds of caches I will enjoy. I've got a pretty good system.

 

Actually, none of those improvements you mention is of any help to me. User logs are the only help, but they have been there since the very beginning. Many favourite points are of no significance for me and often they rather means that I will not like the concerned cache at all. Tools like "find caches along a route" are of no interest to me as I typically first choose the caches and this determines the route and not the other way round.

 

 

Cezanne

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Notice how, in order to be happy again, you just had to ignore those mean ol' numbers hides and power trails - just put them out of mind? Well, here's the secret: You can do this any time you want!! Find a happy place inside where numbers caches don't exist for you. Those bad numbers caches you hate don't exist there! They can't hurt you anymore. I mean, they don't actively involve themselves in your life or hobbies. They don't have legs... they don't move, they don't have minds... they don't think for themselves. They are inanimate plastic/metal/wood/glass objects with no purpose other than to sit somewhere, out of sight.

 

For me it is not about quality vs quantity, but about the number of caches available to me that I enjoy. Many hiders of caches that I enjoy got frustrated and left geocaching and some others adapted to the new times by for example deciding against hiding a long multi cache and splitting up the cache into many individual traditionals with copy and paste descriptions and logs. In this way, caches I would have enjoyed do not get hidden any more and I need to visit many caches which I do not enjoy or do not go caching at all (and sit around even more).

 

 

Cezanne

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The game is what you make it.

 

:)

 

Agreed. and i try to make it about quality not quantity. just wish there was more enthusiasm behind the former and less behind the latter.

 

I disagree with the notion that "the games is what you make it" as if those that prefer quantity over quality is somehow equal to those the prefer quality over quantity.

 

If someone prefers quantity, a few quality caches in the area has very little impact on how they play the game. However, if someone prefer quality, a large number low quality caches has a much greater impact on how they play the game simply because a large number of caches takes up most of the real estate that could be used for anything else.

 

It's easy for the numbers cacher to claim "we can all play the game how we want" when how others play the game has very little negative impact on they play the game. The same can't be said for those that want to find high quality caches when the area is saturated with caches which only seem to exist to give numbers cachers the opportunity to increase their find count.

 

Well said. The numbers hides make the game a lot more work for those who aren't interested in them, but my cache at the base of a waterfall two miles into the woods has no affect on them. It's becoming more and more difficult to find the gems among the chaff. When I started geocaching you could load up your GPS and walk out the door and the odds were extremely good that you'd be taken some place interesting. It was a great way to explore new areas when you traveled, as the locals would often hide caches in their own special places. I largely stopped caching when I travel now because I found that I was being taken from strip mall to strip mall most of the time and I just don't have the tools or time to put in the necessary legwork to weed out the good ones.

 

And how do the hiders feel who put a lot of work into selecting a location for a cache that deservedly garners a lot of favorites,when someone plops down 40 film canisters along the way and their cache suddenly becomes nothing more than "one of 41 today, TFTC"?

 

Nevermind that power trails take what was a originally low profile, low impact sport and turned it into a high impact, high visibility sport. For years we tried to disabuse land managers of the notion that hordes of people were descending on their parks to hunt geocaches. We had to point out that these hordes they were concerned about didn't exist and most caches were getting no more than a couple of visits a month. It's hard to make that argument now when hordes of geocachers are indeed hitting these power trails.

 

There are other practices of the numbers cachers which may have an impact on the way I play the game when those practices start to bring the authorities down on us.

 

I'd bet a thousand bucks that NO ONE has come to you in your entire caching career, shook their head and stared at you in abject pity over your numbers. No one cares if you have 500 or 5,000.

 

I get a lot of good-natured kidding from other cachers about my low find count, so apparently there are others who are actually pay attention to my numbers. I've also had snide comments made in these forums mocking my low number of finds and questioning my qualifications to offer advice or opinions here based on that count.

Edited by briansnat
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And how do the hiders feel who put a lot of work into selecting a location for a cache that deservedly garners a lot of favorites,when someone plops down 40 film canisters along the way and their cache suddenly becomes nothing more than "one of 41 today, TFTC"?

 

As a finder, I'm irked by the proliferation of micro caches on trails where a single cache had previously resided because new hiders feel that there needs to be a cache every 528 feet. "This area needs more caches" is usually the reason for filling the trail with film canisters. <_<

 

I get a lot of good-natured kidding from other cachers about my low find count, so apparently there are others who are actually pay attention to my numbers. I've also had snide comments made in these forums mocking my low number of finds and questioning my qualifications to offer advice or opinions here based on that count.

 

We've got 318 finds in 7 years. (And numerous DNF's.) I take a lot of time picking and choosing which caches to seek. I check previous logs and any photos to try and determine if the cache is worth our time. I've made the mistake of including some caches that don't seem to have any apparent reason for existing, usually micros. Those have usually been a waste of time, even if we do find them.

 

I've gotten the dig about small finds here, too.

 

While some folks like to moan and groan about "high numbers" finders here on the forums, apparently there's a bit of hypocrisy going on.

 

There are folks who have finds in the 10,000+ range that have never hit a power trail. It's absolutely possible, without claiming false finds.

 

 

B.

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I don't know how geocaching was before, I've been at it less than a year, so these are my good old days. 10 years from now I guess I can come on here and bitch about it but I like how it is now. Any kind of experience you want is out there. If it's not, you have the ability to shape the game yourself with hides. If you get sick of it you can do something else for a while and those things will still be out there when and if you come back (and you won't be rusty like you will if you quit golf for a while).

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The game is what you make it.

 

:)

 

Agreed. and i try to make it about quality not quantity. just wish there was more enthusiasm behind the former and less behind the latter.

 

I disagree with the notion that "the games is what you make it" as if those that prefer quantity over quality is somehow equal to those the prefer quality over quantity.

 

If someone prefers quantity, a few quality caches in the area has very little impact on how they play the game. However, if someone prefer quality, a large number low quality caches has a much greater impact on how they play the game simply because a large number of caches takes up most of the real estate that could be used for anything else.

 

It's easy for the numbers cacher to claim "we can all play the game how we want" when how others play the game has very little negative impact on they play the game. The same can't be said for those that want to find high quality caches when the area is saturated with caches which only seem to exist to give numbers cachers the opportunity to increase their find count.

 

Well said. The numbers hides make the game a lot more work for those who aren't interested in them, but my cache at the base of a waterfall two miles into the woods has no affect on them. It's becoming more and more difficult to find the gems among the chaff. When I started geocaching you could load up your GPS and walk out the door and the odds were extremely good that you'd be taken some place interesting. It was a great way to explore new areas when you traveled, as the locals would often hide caches in their own special places. I largely stopped caching when I travel now because I found that I was being taken from strip mall to strip mall most of the time and I just don't have the tools or time to put in the necessary legwork to weed out the good ones.

 

And how do the hiders feel who put a lot of work into selecting a location for a cache that deservedly garners a lot of favorites,when someone plops down 40 film canisters along the way and their cache suddenly becomes nothing more than "one of 41 today, TFTC"?

 

Nevermind that power trails take what was a originally low profile, low impact sport and turned it into a high impact, high visibility sport. For years we tried to disabuse land managers of the notion that hordes of people were descending on their parks to hunt geocaches. We had to point out that these hordes they were concerned about didn't exist and most caches were getting no more than a couple of visits a month. It's hard to make that argument now when hordes of geocachers are indeed hitting these power trails.

 

There are other practices of the numbers cachers which may have an impact on the way I play the game when those practices start to bring the authorities down on us.

 

I'd bet a thousand bucks that NO ONE has come to you in your entire caching career, shook their head and stared at you in abject pity over your numbers. No one cares if you have 500 or 5,000.

 

I get a lot of good-natured kidding from other cachers about my low find count, so apparently there are others who are actually pay attention to my numbers. I've also had snide comments made in these forums mocking my low number of finds and questioning my qualifications to offer advice or opinions here based on that count.

 

Agree with this post 100% especially the last part - there is a general sense that because ones numbers are not as high as others, one is somehow less qualified to speak on matters of caching. This can bleed over into how others tend to be exclusive in their group events and hunts.

 

But I wish not to digress really - again, I wasn't meaning for this post to be a debate. Sadly, some feel a need to stir that pot and bring it up for the sake of doing so - and you see some of the nastiness that comes out as a result, clearly. Well done.

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The game is what you make it.

 

:)

 

Agreed. and i try to make it about quality not quantity. just wish there was more enthusiasm behind the former and less behind the latter.

 

I disagree with the notion that "the games is what you make it" as if those that prefer quantity over quality is somehow equal to those the prefer quality over quantity.

 

If someone prefers quantity, a few quality caches in the area has very little impact on how they play the game. However, if someone prefer quality, a large number low quality caches has a much greater impact on how they play the game simply because a large number of caches takes up most of the real estate that could be used for anything else.

 

It's easy for the numbers cacher to claim "we can all play the game how we want" when how others play the game has very little negative impact on they play the game. The same can't be said for those that want to find high quality caches when the area is saturated with caches which only seem to exist to give numbers cachers the opportunity to increase their find count.

 

Well said.

 

 

Thanks. That means a lot coming from you.

 

 

I'd bet a thousand bucks that NO ONE has come to you in your entire caching career, shook their head and stared at you in abject pity over your numbers. No one cares if you have 500 or 5,000.

 

I get a lot of good-natured kidding from other cachers about my low find count, so apparently there are others who are actually pay attention to my numbers. I've also had snide comments made in these forums mocking my low number of finds and questioning my qualifications to offer advice or opinions here based on that count.

 

It wouldn't take much time to find numerous posts where someone judged the credibility of someone giving advice in the forums based on the number of finds that person had.

 

People can claim "it's not about the numbers" all they want, but the fact is, some people *do* judge other cacher based on how many caches they've found.

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The game is what you make it.

 

:)

 

Agreed. and i try to make it about quality not quantity. just wish there was more enthusiasm behind the former and less behind the latter.

 

I disagree with the notion that "the games is what you make it" as if those that prefer quantity over quality is somehow equal to those the prefer quality over quantity.

 

If someone prefers quantity, a few quality caches in the area has very little impact on how they play the game. However, if someone prefer quality, a large number low quality caches has a much greater impact on how they play the game simply because a large number of caches takes up most of the real estate that could be used for anything else.

 

It's easy for the numbers cacher to claim "we can all play the game how we want" when how others play the game has very little negative impact on they play the game. The same can't be said for those that want to find high quality caches when the area is saturated with caches which only seem to exist to give numbers cachers the opportunity to increase their find count.

 

Well said.

 

 

Thanks. That means a lot coming from you.

 

 

I'd bet a thousand bucks that NO ONE has come to you in your entire caching career, shook their head and stared at you in abject pity over your numbers. No one cares if you have 500 or 5,000.

 

I get a lot of good-natured kidding from other cachers about my low find count, so apparently there are others who are actually pay attention to my numbers. I've also had snide comments made in these forums mocking my low number of finds and questioning my qualifications to offer advice or opinions here based on that count.

 

It wouldn't take much time to find numerous posts where someone judged the credibility of someone giving advice in the forums based on the number of finds that person had.

 

People can claim "it's not about the numbers" all they want, but the fact is, some people *do* judge other cacher based on how many caches they've found.

 

I remember a thread not too long ago where it turned its attention to one poster when they looked up his profile, he had no finds - thought his was a sock puppet account. When in fact, it was his real account and he logs all of his caches as "notes" which do not show up on a find. So, yes, people do look up numbers, do judge other cachers by numbers and numbers do matter to some.

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And how do the hiders feel who put a lot of work into selecting a location for a cache that deservedly garners a lot of favorites,when someone plops down 40 film canisters along the way and their cache suddenly becomes nothing more than "one of 41 today, TFTC"?

 

Ouch. I know that feeling. I had a great cache with lots of swag that became a candy wrapper and junk bin overnight when someone incorporated it into their power trail. The rate of finds went way up, and the significance of the cache went way down. I archived that thing as soon as I realized what had happened, and I've never placed another cache since then.

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I also went to a couple of new 1K multis last year in the same area, nice long hikes.

 

The 1K caches are still being hidden, and even a smattering of 1k events usually organized by the cacher's caching friends.

 

 

What's a "1k multi"? 0.o

 

A 1k multi is usually a "tribute" cache set up to celebrate a cachers 1000th find - usually the 1k multi is a bunch of stages aimed at either re-creating in some form some of the cacher's more clever hides, or in some cases, the stages reflect the cahcers personality, their likes, their caching dislikes, etc. 1k multis are normally quite fun to do and can be time consuming but very rewarding. Which is why they are usually very high quality caches.

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I too am local to the OP, and am not really sure what his point is. :unsure:

I've been caching for over 10 years, so I think I have a decent handle on 'what once was' compared to 'what it is today.'

I'm the listed owner of the first evil 1K celebration multi placed in our area. (BTW the OP hasn't found it yet.) And I was the 'honoree' along with three other geopals of the second one placed. I also own some of the oldest urban micros in the area, some of them 8 years old and counting.

 

I consider myself an omnivorous cacher. On different days/trips I have different moods and go for different kinds of hides. It also depends on who I am caching with. The biggest change I see, is that we simply have more of everything, and that is a good thing for the most part. 'What once was' didn't offer bike trail caches, kayaking caches, underground tunnel caches.

 

'What it is today' offers all of those and more. You want to drive through the desert, or game lands, or a rural area and gobble up a hundred easy to find caches-go ahead. I've been to the deserts outside of Las Vegas twice and enjoyed that geocaching experience. You want to take a long hike in the woods, let the dog run off leash, and only find four caches along a four mile track, fine. I did just that last weekend out at Falls Lake. You want to find newly placed well done and/or evil multis? I see at least 20 in my closest to home unfound 1000 DB. I have a an 8 year running tradition with one of my oldest geopals to target one of those on New Year's Day. I'm glad we have some nice options for the upcoming day.

 

So I am really not quite sure what the OP's gripe is. But he seems to enjoy painting the local caching scene in a negative light at every chance he can in these forums. I don't see it that way, and I've been here almost from the beginning of the local caching scene. Everything in life changes, embrace it and figure out how to use the tools and time to make your geocaching adventures what you want of them, or deny the changes and sit on a rocker musing about the good old days that maybe weren't quite as good as you remember them to be. Your choice-and you have more of them than ever before. That is a good thing in my book. Now I have to run some errands, maybe there will even be time for a cache or two along the way.

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I too am local to the OP, and am not really sure what his point is. :unsure:

I've been caching for over 10 years, so I think I have a decent handle on 'what once was' compared to 'what it is today.'

I'm the listed owner of the first evil 1K celebration multi placed in our area. (BTW the OP hasn't found it yet.) And I was the 'honoree' along with three other geopals of the second one placed. I also own some of the oldest urban micros in the area, some of them 8 years old and counting.

 

I consider myself an omnivorous cacher. On different days/trips I have different moods and go for different kinds of hides. It also depends on who I am caching with. The biggest change I see, is that we simply have more of everything, and that is a good thing for the most part. 'What once was' didn't offer bike trail caches, kayaking caches, underground tunnel caches.

 

'What it is today' offers all of those and more. You want to drive through the desert, or game lands, or a rural area and gobble up a hundred easy to find caches-go ahead. I've been to the deserts outside of Las Vegas twice and enjoyed that geocaching experience. You want to take a long hike in the woods, let the dog run off leash, and only find four caches along a four mile track, fine. I did just that last weekend out at Falls Lake. You want to find newly placed well done and/or evil multis? I see at least 20 in my closest to home unfound 1000 DB. I have a an 8 year running tradition with one of my oldest geopals to target one of those on New Year's Day. I'm glad we have some nice options for the upcoming day.

 

So I am really not quite sure what the OP's gripe is. But he seems to enjoy painting the local caching scene in a negative light at every chance he can in these forums. I don't see it that way, and I've been here almost from the beginning of the local caching scene. Everything in life changes, embrace it and figure out how to use the tools and time to make your geocaching adventures what you want of them, or deny the changes and sit on a rocker musing about the good old days that maybe weren't quite as good as you remember them to be. Your choice-and you have more of them than ever before. That is a good thing in my book. Now I have to run some errands, maybe there will even be time for a cache or two along the way.

 

"You're apparently confusing the forums with the geocaching community. That's kind of like confusing society with talk radio and editorial pages."

 

Words to live by.

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I consider myself an omnivorous cacher. On different days/trips I have different moods and go for different kinds of hides. It also depends on who I am caching with. The biggest change I see, is that we simply have more of everything, and that is a good thing for the most part.

 

I think that your first sentence explains a lot. I observed that cachers who enjoy very different styles of geocaching depending on the situation, typically have less issues with the changes and also indeed are able to profit from the larger offer and the increased diversity of geocaches and geocachers.

Probably quality is not the right term to be used in a discussion like this one.

 

I agree that not all changes that happened are negative and for many cachers the current geocaching world is to be preferred to the one some years ago and those are not only number hounds, but also e.g. omnivorous cachers to use the term you coined above. As a cacher with narrow geocaching interests, an aversion against masses of people and a preference to stay within groups of people with similar interests, the situation has changed to the worse considerably during the last years in almost any aspect. briansnat's statement about high/low impact and high/low visibility also reflects quite well how I view the situation. I noticed that omnivorous cachers typically welcome the growth of the community which is not the case for me.

 

In my area for every old-timer that leaves the game frustrated, at least twenty or more new cachers enter the game. I'm missing the old-timers however as none of the new ones hide caches that I enjoy (which neither means that those caches are necessarily bad nor that the caches I prefer are of necessarily higher quality - they are just more suitable for what I'm expecting).

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne
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I think the spirit of geocaching has been lost.

 

Hooey. It ain't lost. It's just harder to find.

 

Caching used to be more of a niche activity, probably because there just weren't that many people who had GPS receivers. They weren't on phones, they weren't in cars, they weren't common at all. So fewer people had access to geoaching. Fewer cachers meant fewer caches, and so there could be more of a common idea about what a good cache was or wasn't. But there were still crappy caches back in the day. (Just no power trails of them, because they weren't allowed until three or four years ago.) Some of the oldest caches I've found have been rather ho hum, but for their age.

 

GPS technology is now much more widespread, and caching has become more accessible to more and more people, not all of whom are hikers or cache design artisans. And with the allowance of power trails, numbers have become more a part of the game than previously. These facts combined have led to a rise in caches that are of lower quality. I will absolutely grant you that. However, I continue to see quality caches hidden, and I continue to enjoy finding them.

 

It's pretty easy to take a look at a given cache listing and figure out if I want to bother looking for it. Night cache in the woods? Check. Tough scramble in a tunnel? Check. Cool earthcache at an interesting feature? Check. Stroll over hill and dale to find a well maintained ammo can? Check. Magnetic key holder under a lampskirt? Probably pass. And then I load my GPSr accordingly and head out. It takes more filtering, it takes more planning, but if you're about quality and not quantity, having to take more time preparing to go out shouldn't be an issue.

 

Rather than throwing up hands and giving up, keep placing the kind of caches out there that you enjoy finding and spread the word about the good ones you find, to set the example for others. Leave a nice note (and perhaps a favorite point) to reward the cache owner and give them positive reinforcement for hiding more caches like that one. Talk up your favorite caches at events.

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I think the spirit of geocaching has been lost.

 

Hooey. It ain't lost. It's just harder to find.

 

 

How much harder does it need to get before people *do* throw up their hands and give up?

 

 

Rather than throwing up hands and giving up, keep placing the kind of caches out there that you enjoy finding and spread the word about the good ones you find, to set the example for others. Leave a nice note (and perhaps a favorite point) to reward the cache owner and give them positive reinforcement for hiding more caches like that one. Talk up your favorite caches at events.

 

I agree that a pro-active approach is best, but before people will do that they have to be convinced that there is a problem. Those that are happy with game as it is today, due to the trend of a proliferation of power trails and caches placed for the sake of increasing ones find count, won't be convinced (or even acknowledge) that there is a problem because, to them, more caches is always better even if those caches take up real estate for the types of caches others want to find.

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Not sure of your point...

Whilst I can't speak for nthacker66, I do share a similar sentiment. For me, the frustration lies not on the gazillions of, (in my opinion), uninspired, copy/paste, crappy container hides themselves. Loads of people thoroughly enjoy rushing 529', signing a soggy log and repeating, ad nauseum. Rather, being essentially lazy, my frustration lies in the amount of effort I must expend separating the proverbial wheat from the chaff. I think it is a bit trite for the numbers oriented cachers to blow off such concerns with comments to the effect of, 'The game is what you make of it', as such statements are both factually and intellectually dishonest.

 

No cacher is an island unto themselves. Ergo, the game is what we all make it. If I hide a single cache which suits my blatantly biased aesthetics, this cache is unlikely to interfere with you, (the collective you), from hunting a nearby power trail. Yet if you hide 2,000 film cans, carpet bombing a geographic region, it will be much harder for me to find a cache I might enjoy.

 

Anyhoo, just my $0.02 :unsure:

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One thing I am saying though is nobody can deny the focus on numbers has increased dramatically over the past year or so.

I guess this is the main point I'm not sure I buy. There are more caches of all types, sure. Are there really fewer high quality caches? Maybe it's just my area, but it sure looks to me like there are at least as many excellent caches going in on trails a mile and more in -- which I'm taking to be a big part of your criteria -- as there ever were, it's just that they are a much smaller percentage of all caches placed.

 

With all the points about different caches for different tastes, it's easy to lose sight of the fact that all those other caches with other flavors are gravy over and above the kinds of caches that were placed in the good old days, which are still being placed today.

 

If we agree that a 100 cache power trail is low quality, are those 100 caches really more, proportionally, than the low quality caches placed in 2002? Be careful: remember that the low quality caches placed in 2002 are long gone now, so they'll be hard to count.

 

Really, if you want to blame numbers, don't blame the people bumping their found counts. I think the real numbers driving a lot of cache placements today are the caches' found counts: back in the day, a lot of COs would be happy with a cache visited 5 times a year. Today, most COs would find that boring, although fortunately the good COs don't mind having some, if not all, of their caches be in remote areas rarely visited.

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A old cache, but really against the guideline BIG time. :ph34r:

 

1. You must sign your geocacher ID and date anywhere on the logbook. It’s okay to overwrite other “entries”.

2. You must take a photo of your signature and post it with your online log.

3. Extra credit and a budding career in art are awarded to anyone who can recreate a signature item on the logbook.

 

If you knew what the final was, you would understand it. :-)

U arent to deface anything...you want me to drag in the guideline about that? I see plenty of pictures on the cache page. Big no no.

Again, the final location is MEANT to be "defaced" - as I said if you knew what it was, you would understand it. I won't give it away in public forums, I will email you what the final location is if you like.

I am sure is one of those places that allowed those things, BUT the guideline said...you MUST have a container and "picture logging" isnt allowed as well.

 

It says must contain a container and log book at minimum - it doesnt define what that container or logbook may or should be. In this case there is a container and a logbook. As far as the ALR iof taking a pick of the signed logbook - thid cache was place prior to the ALR requirement - so it is either grandfathered in, or not really required at all, but for the purpose and fun of the cache - posting a pic of their signature is a big part of the fun.

Edited by nthacker66
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I would still like to see GS make find counts private and see if power trails are still as popular as they are now. think of all the numbers people that would be in here crying if that ever happened.
Competition is a great motivator. We would probably lose most of our geocachers in the process, which means less income for the website.
Another approach would be to use a privacy model similar to sites like fitbit.com, where each user can choose to share various statistics with everyone, with just their "friends", or with no one. That would make geocaching.com's "friends" feature more useful. And that way, those who wanted to avoid competition could play that way, those who wanted a casual competition with their "friends" could play that way, and those who wanted to compete with everyone could play that way.

 

Recently I met a few old-timers at a restaurant and realized that this brought back the old feeling - so it is still there, but not at the gc.com events with its masses and lots of people I do not want to meet.
FWIW, around here, we occasionally organize "unevents" through our local forums. They're like events except they aren't listed on geocaching.com, so the attendance is smaller and it's more low-key.
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Rather, being essentially lazy, my frustration lies in the amount of effort I must expend separating the proverbial wheat from the chaff.

I wasn't geocaching back then, so could you give me a better feel for what makes selecting good caches harder than it used to be? Back when geocaching was fun, I imagine you'd go look for a trail to hike, you'd look for caches on that trail, and you'd download any you found to your GPS -- or print out a page more often, I guess -- and head off into the woods.

 

I'm not seeing how a powertrail out in the desert or a LPC at your local grocery store makes it harder to map out that trail than it ever was. Even the "injected" powertrail someone mentioned along the trail on the way to a good cache seems easy enough to spot and ignore.

 

I can see that PQs aren't as useful as they might be, but PQs seem designed to handle large numbers of caches, most of which you aren't interested in, not the few high quality caches such as the ones you enjoyed in the heyday. I think you're blaming the large numbers of caches for making the new tools less useful for you, so you can't use them to be be lazier than you had to be in the past, while ignoring the fact that the new tools were mainly invented because of the vast number of caches we have today.

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Recently I met a few old-timers at a restaurant and realized that this brought back the old feeling - so it is still there, but not at the gc.com events with its masses and lots of people I do not want to meet.
FWIW, around here, we occasionally organize "unevents" through our local forums. They're like events except they aren't listed on geocaching.com, so the attendance is smaller and it's more low-key.

 

That does not work any longer around here (it had worked 6 years ago). That might be due to the fact that I live in a city with an ever and ever increasing caching community, The only possibility seems to be sending around e-mails to a previously selected group, but that's something for people who like to organize.

Events have been something special back then, but now most local events on gc.com are low-key anyway and some have a duration of just a few minutes or are stacked up with other events (one after the other).

In the early times most local cachers and thus most participants of events e.g. shared the love for hiking while nowadays the only common aspect is being a geocacher and this then means that geocaching is the sole topic which is nothing which I appreciate.

 

Cezanne

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